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R520 Speculation at the Inq

It may not even be 3.0, it will probably be an exhanced version closer to 4.0. Although I still highly doubt anything above 2.0 or 2.0b will be necessary for gamers in the next two years. There are still plenty of brand new games that don't even use version 1.0.

Thank god 4.0 does not call for longer instructions, or increasing the number of shaders (its infinite as is now) Unfortunately that means ATI will have to increase the number of transistors, which honestly I think is just wasting space that could be better put to use to bring back things like TruForm.

Pixel shader 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 all define a group of minimum specs in many different areas. The X800 is 2.0b, which is lot closer to 3.0 than it sounds.
 
ZenOps said:
It may not even be 3.0, it will probably be an exhanced version closer to 4.0. Although I still highly doubt anything above 2.0 or 2.0b will be necessary for gamers in the next two years. There are still plenty of brand new games that don't even use version 1.0.

Thank god 4.0 does not call for longer instructions, or increasing the number of shaders (its infinite as is now) Unfortunately that means ATI will have to increase the number of transistors, which honestly I think is just wasting space that could be better put to use to bring back things like TruForm.

Pixel shader 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 all define a group of minimum specs in many different areas. The X800 is 2.0b, which is lot closer to 3.0 than it sounds.
Click to expand...

TruForm was good, but its missing several components for displacement. And trying todo truform with displacements yeilds the same draw backs if a tessalation and displacement are done without a texture look up in the vertex shader, more then 1 pass. actually it will take 3 passes.

tesselate (vertex shader) (truform)
look up displacement map (pixel shader)
displacement (vertex shader)

With sm 3.0 all of this can be done in one pass.

But got to tell ya Morrowind did look nice on ATi's 9700 :)
 
Emret said:
And ofcourse same nvidiots are trying to stirr shit again...
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excuse me if I think it's funny for a company to vehemently oppose a technology saying it's worthless only to adopt it 6 months later...
 
i dont know why the inq thinks this is news, since we already have sm3 in r420... and it wasent a rumour, it was *confirmed*

the inq is great for news =)
 
Spank said:
i dont know why the inq thinks this is news, since we already have sm3 in r420... and it wasent a rumour, it was *confirmed*

the inq is great for news =)
Click to expand...


the r420 has sm 3.0? :D
 
^eMpTy^ said:
like ATi has been saying all along...PS3.0 is completely unnecessary...until of course they support it 12 months after nvidia...
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I thought thats what they've been saying all along, something along the lines of them not wanting Devs to use it until they had their R5x0 card out. LOL :D
 
Because maybe "12 months after nVidia" it will be useful? There is not one retail game out yet, that supports PS3.0. The only game that you can use it on (Farcry) gets almost exactly the same performance boost from 2.0b. Too bad thats overlooked by too many people.
 
fallguy said:
Because maybe "12 months after nVidia" it will be useful? There is not one retail game out yet, that supports PS3.0. The only game that you can use it on (Farcry) gets almost exactly the same performance boost from 2.0b. Too bad thats overlooked by too many people.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the review. So it'll be important next year then? So everyone who buys an x800 can just upgrade to a r520 in 8 months???

I don't know about you but I plan on keeping my GT for atleast 18 months...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Thanks for the review. So it'll be important next year then? So everyone who buys an x800 can just upgrade to a r520 in 8 months???

I don't know about you but I plan on keeping my GT for atleast 18 months...
Click to expand...
Either he has the cash to run through cards every refresh or he's just bitter about it. ;)

If I dropped $400- 500 on a video card then I'd hope to atleast get 18 months or more out of it in a gaming rig too but I guess thats just me. :rolleyes: lol
 
although inquirer has some useful articles, IIRC they were the ones who said you would be able to stack LGA775 CPUs :rolleyes:
 
Actually, you were the one to throw out the 12 months figure. Way to exaggerate by calling my post a review. I cant quote you since you're on ignore.

CrimandEvil, why would I be bitter? I have a GT, and as I said, there isnt one game out that uses PS3.0. As I also said, PS2.0b nets the same performance gains for ATi, as 3.0 does for NV. Yes there can be HDR done with it, but we dont know which games will do it, and which games wont. Which is why I am not very excited about PS3.0. Im more in the "wait and see" boat. Not going to get my hopes up for what has been so far, not very exciting.

I dont keep my cards 18 months. But wanting a NV40 for PS3.0 to someone who keeps their cards for 18 months is certainly a valid reason to do so. But hey, thats what having an open mind can do for you.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Thanks for the review. So it'll be important next year then? So everyone who buys an x800 can just upgrade to a r520 in 8 months???

I don't know about you but I plan on keeping my GT for atleast 18 months...
Click to expand...


As I said a while back thats ATi's plan to force its customers to buy another card ;). The argument was with a guy called MFL or somethin like that, and he is also on rage3d......
 
Spank said:
i dont know why the inq thinks this is news, since we already have sm3 in r420... and it wasent a rumour, it was *confirmed*

the inq is great for news =)
Click to expand...

These type of people have nothing better to do
and i also think he should get banned for 7 days for name calling
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
These type of people have nothing better to do
and i also think he should get banned for 7 days for name calling
Click to expand...

Who did he call a name? And who died and made you a mod?
 
Emret said:
And ofcourse same nvidiots are trying to stirr shit again...
Click to expand...

Entirely unnecessary.

But anyway. My opinion coming...

I think it was smart of nvidia to support sm 3.0, but at this point it is merely a marketing point.

ATI isn't losing anything by not having it, and it seems by the time it is needed, they will have product to meet that need.


No need to get all worked up on something as trivial as this. Cool your jets guys.
 
fallguy said:
Actually, you were the one to throw out the 12 months figure. Way to exaggerate by calling my post a review. I cant quote you since you're on ignore.
Click to expand...

Um, if he was on ignore you wouldn't be able to see his post let alone quote it.

Edit: Ah yes, you got it from CE's post. Still is rather pointless to reply to someone on your ignore list. Kinda defeats the purpose of it don'tchya think?
 
The Batman said:
Edit: Ah yes, you got it from CE's post. Still is rather pointless to reply to someone on your ignore list. Kinda defeats the purpose of it don'tchya think?
Click to expand...
I wish he'd put me on that list, that way he won't won't have to response to my throw away one liners/ horrible jokes, lol.

I agree with the defeating the purpose thing but sometimes it's fun to see what the other person posted. ;)
 
Oooo speculation, my favourite! If I had got to this thread sooner I would have predicted arguments, but I see that's already the case. Nice.
 
fallguy said:
Actually, you were the one to throw out the 12 months figure. Way to exaggerate by calling my post a review. I cant quote you since you're on ignore.

CrimandEvil, why would I be bitter? I have a GT, and as I said, there isnt one game out that uses PS3.0. As I also said, PS2.0b nets the same performance gains for ATi, as 3.0 does for NV. Yes there can be HDR done with it, but we dont know which games will do it, and which games wont. Which is why I am not very excited about PS3.0. Im more in the "wait and see" boat. Not going to get my hopes up for what has been so far, not very exciting.

I dont keep my cards 18 months. But wanting a NV40 for PS3.0 to someone who keeps their cards for 18 months is certainly a valid reason to do so. But hey, thats what having an open mind can do for you.
Click to expand...

i agree, let's wait and see before we pass judgement.
 
Is it just me, or do we see more future ATI rumors than nVidia? Can someone link some nv50 stuff?
 
Jonsey said:
Is it just me, or do we see more future ATI rumors than nVidia? Can someone link some nv50 stuff?
Click to expand...

There aren't any yet that I know of...other than it will probably be longhorn till we see it...
 
fallguy said:
Actually, you were the one to throw out the 12 months figure. Way to exaggerate by calling my post a review. I cant quote you since you're on ignore.

CrimandEvil, why would I be bitter? I have a GT, and as I said, there isnt one game out that uses PS3.0. As I also said, PS2.0b nets the same performance gains for ATi, as 3.0 does for NV. Yes there can be HDR done with it, but we dont know which games will do it, and which games wont. Which is why I am not very excited about PS3.0. Im more in the "wait and see" boat. Not going to get my hopes up for what has been so far, not very exciting.

I dont keep my cards 18 months. But wanting a NV40 for PS3.0 to someone who keeps their cards for 18 months is certainly a valid reason to do so. But hey, thats what having an open mind can do for you.
Click to expand...

I know I threw out the 12 month figure...that was the point...right now ATi is trying to convince everyone that PS3.0 is useless...despite the numerous announcements of support for it...and despite the fact that they themselves are putting out a PS3 card in less than a year...and that doesn't strike you as a little odd? maybe a little BS on thier part?

And i wasn't calling your post a review...I was stating that everything you posted I (and everyone else for that matter) already know...I know that 3.0 is only in FarCry...I know that 2.0b seems to do well in FarCry...that doesn't really matter...what matters is PS3 games are coming and right now ATi is trying to dupe everyone into thinking PS3 doesn't matter when they themselves are getting ready to release a PS3 part...
 
d34dly said:
Entirely unnecessary.

But anyway. My opinion coming...

I think it was smart of nvidia to support sm 3.0, but at this point it is merely a marketing point.

ATI isn't losing anything by not having it, and it seems by the time it is needed, they will have product to meet that need.


No need to get all worked up on something as trivial as this. Cool your jets guys.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. Ima skip this generation and buy the next generation of cards, whichever is better. I'm having no problems running any games with my 9700 pro (doom3 and far cry included).
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I know I threw out the 12 month figure...that was the point...right now ATi is trying to convince everyone that PS3.0 is useless...despite the numerous announcements of support for it...and despite the fact that they themselves are putting out a PS3 card in less than a year...and that doesn't strike you as a little odd? maybe a little BS on thier part?

And i wasn't calling your post a review...I was stating that everything you posted I (and everyone else for that matter) already know...I know that 3.0 is only in FarCry...I know that 2.0b seems to do well in FarCry...that doesn't really matter...what matters is PS3 games are coming and right now ATi is trying to dupe everyone into thinking PS3 doesn't matter when they themselves are getting ready to release a PS3 part...
Click to expand...


no it doesnt strike me as odd at all. at this point in time sm3 over sm2b is a moot point. the only advantage ps3 has been shown to have is hdr, which if the estimates im hearing are correct cuts performance in half if not more, and you wont be able to use AA. im sorry but slightly better looking lighting effects arent worth that kind of dropoff. the fact is this generation of cards just doesnt have the horsepower to use the really neat effects that sm3 is capable of. whih means that Ati's waiting to add full sm3 is looking likethe much better option from a engineering standpoint. now its hurting them in marketing, but nearly as much as the shortages are. in 12 months+ when the next generation of hardware is out hdr, and displacement mapping will probably be actual esufull features, but right now they are just tech demo stuff.
 
I imagine that ATI is releasing a PS 3.0 part for the same reason nvidia is - marketing. People are already calling the X800 series outdated compared to the 6800 series. Think of what people would say if ATI's next core still did not include PS 3.0 support.

Don't get me wrong, PS 3.0 is the future. But the feature/performance benefits of going from PS 2.0b to PS 3.0 aren't exactly staggering, and I think this is what ATI is getting at when they try to downplay PS 3.0.
 
jkr266 said:
no it doesnt strike me as odd at all. at this point in time sm3 over sm2b is a moot point. the only advantage ps3 has been shown to have is hdr, which if the estimates im hearing are correct cuts performance in half if not more, and you wont be able to use AA. im sorry but slightly better looking lighting effects arent worth that kind of dropoff. the fact is this generation of cards just doesnt have the horsepower to use the really neat effects that sm3 is capable of. whih means that Ati's waiting to add full sm3 is looking likethe much better option from a engineering standpoint. now its hurting them in marketing, but nearly as much as the shortages are. in 12 months+ when the next generation of hardware is out hdr, and displacement mapping will probably be actual esufull features, but right now they are just tech demo stuff.
Click to expand...

whatever man...if you wanna spend $500 on a video card that will lack the major featureset to play top games with all the options enabled next year...buy an x800...ATi can claim it's useless all they want...it's PR BS and they know it...that's why they're making the r500 less than a year after releasing the x800 (which isn't even really to market yet)...don't you think it's odd they are suddenly on a 12 month cycle again?
 
WuTangClam said:
I imagine that ATI is releasing a PS 3.0 part for the same reason nvidia is - marketing. People are already calling the X800 series outdated compared to the 6800 series. Think of what people would say if ATI's next core still did not include PS 3.0 support.

Don't get me wrong, PS 3.0 is the future. But the feature/performance benefits of going from PS 2.0b to PS 3.0 aren't exactly staggering, and I think this is what ATI is getting at when they try to downplay PS 3.0.
Click to expand...


There are huge benefits and differences between ps 2.0b and sm 3.0 don't forget thats its ps and sm 2.0b only has hte pixel shader component of sm 3.0. Also if sm 3.0 wasn't put out right now, we won't have sm 3.0 games in 6 months or a year.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
excuse me if I think it's funny for a company to vehemently oppose a technology saying it's worthless only to adopt it 6 months later...
Click to expand...

First of all, that article was a informative as a blank piece of paper :rolleyes:

Second, maybe HL2 will be patched to support SM3.0 as ATI launchs this card? ;)
 
R1ckCa1n said:
First of all, that article was a informative as a blank piece of paper :rolleyes:

Second, maybe HL2 will be patched to support SM3.0 as ATI launchs this card? ;)
Click to expand...

yeah they took like 3 paragraphs to say "r520 will have ps3.0"

And yeah, that's probably a good time-table...and would be ruthlessly funny...
 
R1ckCa1n said:
First of all, that article was a informative as a blank piece of paper :rolleyes:

Second, maybe HL2 will be patched to support SM3.0 as ATI launchs this card? ;)
Click to expand...


who cares there are other games with it coming out......
 
jkr266 said:
no it doesnt strike me as odd at all. at this point in time sm3 over sm2b is a moot point. the only advantage ps3 has been shown to have is hdr, which if the estimates im hearing are correct cuts performance in half if not more, and you wont be able to use AA. im sorry but slightly better looking lighting effects arent worth that kind of dropoff. the fact is this generation of cards just doesnt have the horsepower to use the really neat effects that sm3 is capable of. whih means that Ati's waiting to add full sm3 is looking likethe much better option from a engineering standpoint. now its hurting them in marketing, but nearly as much as the shortages are. in 12 months+ when the next generation of hardware is out hdr, and displacement mapping will probably be actual esufull features, but right now they are just tech demo stuff.
Click to expand...

You just nailed it. Nvidia rushed out SM3.0 and will only support the least GPU taxing features, IMHO.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
You just nailed it. Nvidia rushed out SM3.0 and will only support the least GPU taxing features, IMHO.
Click to expand...


keep reading Rick, if it wasn't released you think HL 2 will have it avialable for the r520 with sm 3.0

god you got bad logic :D. What are you talking about taxing features, do you even know the shaders that are going to be used? how they tax the nV gpus? gimmi a break.
 
rancor said:
There are huge benefits and differences between ps 2.0b and sm 3.0 don't forget thats its ps and sm 2.0b only has hte pixel shader component of sm 3.0. Also if sm 3.0 wasn't put out right now, we won't have sm 3.0 games in 6 months or a year.
Click to expand...

Were is the proof? All we saw was a 5-10 percent increase on Far Cry's SM3.0 patch. What increase does the SM2.0b patch bring to the same game? Interesting..........By the time games come out with FULL support of SM3.0 games, the 6800 will look like a 5200 performance wise.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Were is the proof? All we saw was a 5-10 percent increase on Far Cry's SM3.0 patch. What increase does the SM2.0b patch bring to the same game? Interesting..........By the time games come out with FULL support of SM3.0 games, the 6800 will look like as 5200 performance wise.
Click to expand...


tell me what shaders did they use and what will Stalker use, what will Lord of the Rings use, what will HL 2's patch use........
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Were is the proof? All we saw was a 5-10 percent increase on Far Cry's SM3.0 patch. What increase does the SM2.0b patch bring to the same game? Interesting..........By the time games come out with FULL support of SM3.0 games, the 6800 will look like a 5200 performance wise.
Click to expand...


errr if you have seen the development schedule for the next cards is what 18 months now? your telling me Stalker won't be out in 18 months? lets see, Lord of Rings should be out before then too. Wow you can be blind when when you want to be.
 
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