R500 (xbox 360)

[Tigerblade]

Custom ATI Graphics Processor
- 500 MNz
- 10 MB embedded DRAM
- 48-way parallel floating-point shader pipelines
- unified shader architecture

Memory
-512 MB GDDR3 RAM
- 700 MNz DDR

Just seen these specs. Now is the R520 based off this gpu? I know this tell's fuck all but it's fun to speculate

What does 48-way parallel floating point shader pipelines mean in pc gpu pipeline terms? Or can it not be compared?

 

[pxc]

Those look like the same bogus specs that were floating around 12 months ago.

 

[Tigerblade]

Those look like the same bogus specs that were floating around 12 months ago.

Sounds like your worried

Seen it on a few sites now, including this very forum......only since last night tho.

My question isn't about whether it's bogus tho, it's what would it equate to in a pc gpu, specifically pipelines. Altho what if it isn't bogus and this is the spec of the 360 gfx card? That would mean the R520 will be more powerful surley?

 

[peltman78]

No. The R500 is equivalent to the R600 which will be coming out next year. The R520 is the R420 with PS3.0 and other optimisations.

 

[Tigerblade]

No. The R500 is equivalent to the R600 which will be coming out next year. The R520 is the R420 with PS3.0 and other optimisations.

Not what I've read. The R520 is a totally new core to R420

And if that's the case why release R520 at all if it's gonna be superceded so soon by R600......

 

[Entropy]

No. The R500 is equivalent to the R600 which will be coming out next year. The R520 is the R420 with PS3.0 and other optimisations.

Uh-huh. Right. The R420 was an extension of the R300 Core. The R520 is a totally new core built by the same team that designed the R300 Core. Run back to the nVidia forums!
lol Jk

 

[FanATIc]

No. The R500 is equivalent to the R600 which will be coming out next year. The R520 is the R420 with PS3.0 and other optimisations.

R500= R520 console Xbox
Hollywood= R520 console gamecube2 aka revolution

Some stupid nfan retard made up that R500=R600 in a fit of sarcastic rage like 6 months ago. Amazing how easy it is to spread rumors. R520 is a completely new core. The R600 is 100% rumor ville.

 

[Tigerblade]

R500= R520 console Xbox
Hollywood= R520 console gamecube

Some stupid nfan retard made up that R500=R600 in a fit of sarcastic rage like 6 months ago. Amazing how easy it is to spread rumors. R520 is a completely new core. The R600 is 100% rumor ville.

if that's the case, and these specs are correct, aren't we looking at a card more powerful than we originally thought

 

[^eMpTy^]

tough to say how r500 will equate to r520...like...I'm guessing the embedded ram is a console thing...and if they have a bunch of transistors on die just for memory, that could throw the clock speed out of whack from the pc version...however...given that 48 is a multiple of 24 and not 32...it may speak to the number of pipelines...

again though, they could have 32 in r520 instead of the embedded ram...or they could have 32 and have 8 disabled to increase yields...

*shrug*

 

[FanATIc]

if that's the case, and these specs are correct, aren't we looking at a card more powerful than we originally thought

Its two different worlds. Microsoft can easily go to ATI and say "make us something amazing" and ati will do it without question because they know that its a one shot deal. There is no upgrading the working hardware in consoles, so what they produce has to last for 4 years minimum and impress. Remember the Xbox when released? It was better then alot of peoples computers and that was the hype and reason to get one. Meanwhile on the PC front they could release a card simply twice as fast, even though they could do more, and feel content with it. Its the same deal with Nvidia. No reason to break the bank on a bunch of useless technology and speed, thats what you always save for refresh or a next core. I'll be surprised if they release a card with 32 pixel pipes, though i'd much more prefer 10 vertex and 24 pixel over 32 pixel and 8 vertex. I also want to see both companies keep a high wpc and low mhz rating. It looks like they may of done that with the Xbox360 if it really is 500mhz.

also i assume parallel floating-point to mean that it is simply 24 up 24 down, if true. Might simply be a fancy term to describe how the 24 pipes work, though im too lazy to look into it anymore then that.

 

[FanATIc]

Processor (IBM Power PC based design):
- 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each
- 2 hardware threads per core
- 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core
- 1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance:
- 9 billion dots per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor:
- 500 MHz
- 10 MB embedded DRAM
- 48-way parallel floating-point shader pipelines
- unified shader architecture

Memory:
-512 MB GDDR3 RAM
- 700 MHz DDR

Memory Bandwidth:L
- 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
- 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
- 21.6 GB/s frontside bus

Audio:
- Mulitchannel surround sond output
- Supports 48khz 16-bit audio
- 320 independent decompression channels
- 32 bit processing
- 256+ audio channels

Overall Hardware:
360 HW:
- Support for DVD-video, DVD-Rom, DVD-R/RW, CD-DA, CD-Rom, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 cd, JPEG photo CD
- All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing
- Customizable face plates to change appearance
- 3 USB 2.0 ports
- Support for 4 wireless controllers
- Detachable 20GB drive
- Wi-Fi ready

 

[hardBBQ]

From all the information I've read, I also believe the R520 will be another extension of the R420/R300 core with PS3.0. The R500 is supposedly a completely new core based on a unified shader model, which will be implemented on the PC in the R600.

 

[Tigerblade]

Its two different worlds. Microsoft can easily go to ATI and say "make us something amazing" and ati will do it without question because they know that its a one shot deal. There is no upgrading the working hardware in consoles, so what they produce has to last for 4 years minimum and impress. Remember the Xbox when released? It was better then alot of peoples computers and that was the hype and reason to get one. Meanwhile on the PC front they could release a card simply twice as fast, even though they could do more, and feel content with it. Its the same deal with Nvidia. No reason to break the bank on a bunch of useless technology and speed, thats what you always save for refresh or a next core. I'll be surprised if they release a card with 32 pixel pipes, though i'd much more prefer 10 vertex and 24 pixel over 32 pixel and 8 vertex. I also want to see both companies keep a high wpc and low mhz rating. It looks like they may of done that with the Xbox360 if it really is 500mhz.

Thats the answer I was looking for, thank you. Makes sense. Thought it was too good to be true

 

[Dr. X]

wtf is MNz?

 

[FanATIc]

wtf is MNz?

kekekekekekke?

 

[Hate_Bot]

From all the information I've read, I also believe the R520 will be another extension of the R420/R300 core with PS3.0. The R500 is supposedly a completely new core based on a unified shader model, which will be implemented on the PC in the R600.

R520 is a completely new core, in development since the R300

 

[nob0dey]

Hollywood= R520 console gamecube2 aka revolution

Heh! That's cool. Now only if I could rip out the GPU form the revolution and stick it in a PC. Now wouldn't that be an idea? Atleast I won't have to worry about pre-shortages of the retail ATi cards.

(...and of course I'm kidding...)

Let's see if i could afford one.

 

[Elios]

this is all well and good but with how ATi was haveing yeld issues this round i dont know how there going to be able to keep up wile also cranking out chips for 2 consoles + OEM sales
and still have stuff left for retail i just have a BAD feeling that its going to be vaporware for 12 months from "launch" to when will see stuff in stores at any were NEAR MSRP and posably 6-8 more months till it comes down to MSRP

 

[FanATIc]

this is all well and good but with how ATi was haveing yeld issues this round i dont know how there going to be able to keep up wile also cranking out chips for 2 consoles + OEM sales
and still have stuff left for retail i just have a BAD feeling that its going to be vaporware for 12 months from "launch" to when will see stuff in stores at any were NEAR MSRP and posably 6-8 more months till it comes down to MSRP

doesnt work that way, microsoft sets a quota to have X amount of chips by a certain time. They wont work on their own numbers or be manufacturing their own chips for their own products. Im actually even sure microsoft will handle the manufacturing plants where the chips are.

And for gods sake, why DO PEOPLE TREAT THE PE LIKE ATI's ONLY CARD!

*rips off a dolls head*

 

[Blackhawk05]

people are going to love paying 1,000$ for there new xbox.

 

[odd nimrod]

I hope that the PC cards have the 10 MB of embedded ram, cause that would make anti-ailiasing a hell of a lot faster.... It's supposedly for the frame buffer so that it can be anit-ailiased without a performance drop....

 

[FanATIc]

people are going to love paying 1,000$ for there new xbox.

Going to be a few versions, base Xbox+goodies, each with more. Most basic should be 300-350 dollars, no HD, just console and single controller, game or two which i always found to be junk with any consol. Second version 400, and the best version which will come with full dvd functionality, Xbox live, custom color or something etc etc etc..$500.00. Heres some of the street drivel.
-----------------------------
Possibly the most appealing aspect of the new XBox for gamers will be the availability of a rather robust free version of XBox Live (Silver) while a premium one (Gold) will offer a variety of extra options.

Features for Gold service

* Also for Silver
# Also for Offline

- Seamless transition to Xbox Live account from Xbox to Xbox 360
- Access to MMOs (additional fees may apply) *
- Free Xbox Live weekends *
- Multiplayer online gameplay
- Avatar for gamer profile * #
- Motto for gamer profile * #
- Personalized look for Xbox System Guide * #
- Offline achievments * #
- Online achievements *
- Access to other players' Gamer cards via Live *
- Cumulative gamer score * #
- Location/language profile * #
- Reputation *
- Enhanced matchmaking using above
- Skill level matchmaking
- Gameplay style profile (casual, competitive, etc.)
- Recent players list *
- Free and premium download game content *
- Free and premium downloadable movies, music, tv *
- Downloadable demos/trailers *
- Microtransactions *
- Custom playlist in every game * #
- Play music from portable devices * #
- View images from digital camera * #
- Strem media from Windows XP * #
- Interactive screen savers * #
- Track info for CDs * #
- Communication with voice, video or text *

 

[Skrying]

people are going to love paying 1,000$ for there new xbox.

Lol, no way will it be that high. I'd say around $400 though.


ATi will have their stuff together. There's a reason they are going to be supplying graphics for two consoles. They must have something in the works that is truly powerful and awesome or else neither company would go for it.

One thing to note also, from the two consoles I assume ATi is a fairly good company to work with. Why else would their relationship stay strong with Nintendo, and grow even more with MS.

Ahh, but to wait. Also, I honestly doubt the PPC chips in the Xbox 360 will be at 3.2Ghz, but we'll see.

 

[FanATIc]

Lol, no way will it be that high. I'd say around $400 though.


ATi will have their stuff together. There's a reason they are going to be supplying graphics for two consoles. They must have something in the works that is truly powerful and awesome or else neither company would go for it.

One thing to note also, from the two consoles I assume ATi is a fairly good company to work with. Why else would their relationship stay strong with Nintendo, and grow even more with MS.

Ahh, but to wait. Also, I honestly doubt the PPC chips in the Xbox 360 will be at 3.2Ghz, but we'll see.

You'd be surprised how few people knew that ATI is the graphics powering the Gamecube. I didnt know until i got one and saw the very very little sticker on the front. That was quite low key i thought.

 

[Skrying]

You'd be surprised how few people knew that ATI is the graphics powering the Gamecube. I didnt know until i got one and saw the very very little sticker on the front. That was quite low key i thought.

Lol, yes that's how I found out. I was pretty happy, back when I had a 9700 Pro (sadly this card is now starting to die, bought it a month after launch ).

 

[Hate_Bot]

And for gods sake, why DO PEOPLE TREAT THE PE LIKE ATI's ONLY CARD!

*rips off a dolls head*

lol this is true, sure the PE Might have had some poor availability, but most other ATI cards had prety good, look at the XL, only about a month or so after launch, we see them all over, for MSRP or less

 

[pxc]

You'd be surprised how few people knew that ATI is the graphics powering the Gamecube. I didnt know until i got one and saw the very very little sticker on the front. That was quite low key i thought.

Technically it was ATI since ATI bought out ArtX (founded by ex-SGI engineers), but it wasn't an ATI design in the Gamecube.

The next Nintendo "Revolution" console of course does have an ATI design in it.

 

[FanATIc]

Technically it was ATI since ATI bought out ArtX (founded by ex-SGI engineers), but it wasn't an ATI design in the Gamecube.

The next Nintendo "Revolution" console of course does have an ATI design in it.

im sorry, it was property of ATI, therefor it was ati. I dont follow the same retarded,

"well they got bought out by ati, became the property of ati, so its not ati"

thinking as some people.

 

[pxc]

im sorry, it was property of ATI, therefor it was ati. I dont follow the same retarded,

"well they got bought out by ati, became the property of ati, so its not ati"

thinking as some people.

That's one way to think about it, but if the chip was designed by ArtX and Nintendo, it's not an ATI design.

Sorry, I didn't change the subject like you tried to.

 

[Skrying]

That's one way to think about it, but if the chip was designed by ArtX and Nintendo, it's not an ATI design.

Sorry, I didn't change the subject like you tried to.

Uhh, that makes no sense. In that case, half the current things from both ATi and Nvidia are not their own designs....... When a company buys out another they get rights to that design, like Nvidia did with 3dfx, and like ATi did with Art-X. Your arguement about it is pretty lame.

 

[FanATIc]

That's one way to think about it, but if the chip was designed by ArtX and Nintendo, it's not an ATI design.

Sorry, I didn't change the subject like you tried to.

Why do i have to have a semantic argument about this? You're an Nvidia fan right? If quite a few of the 3Dfx guys, after being bought out, continued to work with Nvidia making the SLI they have today, am i going to say its not Nvidias but 3Dfxs? Course not, the company has long since been dissolved and its all now Nvidia tech. This is the same deal. Art-X was purchased by ati in april of 2000 or something, yes the chip was already finalized, but it is then the property of ATI. Just like if the same guys that made that continue with ATI making the R300 and the R520 plus having a hand in its consol varients, are you going to continue to say its Art-X and not ATI? Doesnt make sence. If the company owns the producer of the product, it then is completely under that companies name. Since Art-X became part of ATI, all their projects and products are then, ATI. See? With that i managed to find some interesting info, kinda neat to compare it to what we see today popping about the new consol chip.

Flipper was developed from scratch after Nintendo and ArtX signed a deal back in 1998. ATI acquired ArtX in April of last year, but nearly all of Flipper's design had been finalized by that time, which happens to be about when Nintendo started providing the first development kits to GameCube developers. The ArtX designers from the Flipper team have long since started work on future ATI high-end desktop graphics chips. ArtX's other team, which developed an integrated graphics chipset with ALi, is working on ATI's upcoming chipset based on the Radeon graphics core that will compete with Nvidia's just-announced nForce.

The key to the GameCube's performance is the way it uses embedded memory for low latency and high bandwidth. The 3MB of memory on Flipper accounts for about half of the chip's 51 million transistors, and the on-chip design allows for more than 20GB/sec of bandwidth, although bandwidth drops to 3.2GB/sec when textures are stored in main memory. The Flipper rolls up nearly all non-CPU tasks onto a single chip, including the memory controller for the 24MB of main memory and 16MB of secondary memory, which some developers are using much like a traditional cartridge's ROM to cache priority data stored on the comparably slow optical game discs.

-June 5, 2001

 

[pxc]

Why do i have to have a semantic argument about this? You're an Nvidia fan right?

Naw, I buy anything. I don't believe in defining myself by something as dumb as a choice in video cards.

IMO, it's kind of mental to be loyal to a piece of hardware.

 

[FanATIc]

Naw, I buy anything. I don't believe in defining myself by something as dumb as a choice in video cards.

IMO, it's kind of mental to be loyal to a piece of hardware.

everyone has their things. Some people watch the same tv show or movie religously. Others may prefer a certain author. Some real wierdos look at porn all the time. Some people its cars. Its like a hobby really. You listen learn and watch trying to understand how something works and how it can improve. You wouldnt be here if you didnt care. I'll happily call myself an ATI !!!!!! but im not about to go out and get a tatoo or start preaching on a corner.

......anyone wanna start a cult?

 

[peltman78]

R520 is a completely new core, in development since the R300

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to go unified shader architecture till they have to which is required for longhorn which isn't out till 2006. It would make sense to just extend the current architecture a little to make a stopgap product.

 

[SnowBeast]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to go unified shader architecture till they have to which is required for longhorn which isn't out till 2006. It would make sense to just extend the current architecture a little to make a stopgap product.

Well you would be correct and HAte is dead wrong. It has always been that the R520 is the same extension of the R420(R300) with PS 3.0 implemented and fine tuned. Over a year ago an ATI member at Rage3d told us that the new R400 was pushed back to the R500. Which happen to be at the time the MS signed on with ATI. So the R400 was pushed into becoming the R500 and run through many boards before being finalized. Last summer Developers were running Developement kits with R9800XT's because the R400/500 wasn't ready. To allow MS to have time ahead of PC graphics the R520 was born. This will be less powerful than the R500 in the Xbox.

Some ppl here need to use common sense. Why would anyone buy and Xbox 360 if the graphics are the same in the PC market, are out at the same time? Cause they won't be. Xbox 360 will have a years lead time. No dumbass Fan Boy came up with it either. R600 will be improved upon, not become R500. Basically a refresh of the R500.

I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

 

[Skrying]

Well you would be correct and HAte is dead wrong. It has always been that the R520 is the same extension of the R420(R300) with PS 3.0 implemented and fine tuned. Over a year ago an ATI member at Rage3d told us that the new R400 was pushed back to the R500. Which happen to be at the time the MS signed on with ATI. So the R400 was pushed into becoming the R500 and run through many boards before being finalized. Last summer Developers were running Developement kits with R9800XT's because the R400/500 wasn't ready. To allow MS to have time ahead of PC graphics the R520 was born. This will be less powerful than the R500 in the Xbox.

Some ppl here need to use common sense. Why would anyone buy and Xbox 360 if the graphics are the same in the PC market, are out at the same time? Cause they won't be. Xbox 360 will have a years lead time. No dumbass Fan Boy came up with it either. R600 will be improved upon, not become R500. Basically a refresh of the R500.

I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

When the Xbox came out my graphics card was more powerful. What you just said is totally opposite of what has been going around. Its been said several places that the R520 would have support for more than was just needed, if it didnt you'd all complain. Its funny as hell, people buy some graphics cards for features that are not even useable today. And now those very same people say that a card coming out wont need features beyond what's needed today.......

 

[FanATIc]

Well you would be correct and HAte is dead wrong. It has always been that the R520 is the same extension of the R420(R300) with PS 3.0 implemented and fine tuned. Over a year ago an ATI member at Rage3d told us that the new R400 was pushed back to the R500. Which happen to be at the time the MS signed on with ATI. So the R400 was pushed into becoming the R500 and run through many boards before being finalized. Last summer Developers were running Developement kits with R9800XT's because the R400/500 wasn't ready. To allow MS to have time ahead of PC graphics the R520 was born. This will be less powerful than the R500 in the Xbox.

Some ppl here need to use common sense. Why would anyone buy and Xbox 360 if the graphics are the same in the PC market, are out at the same time? Cause they won't be. Xbox 360 will have a years lead time. No dumbass Fan Boy came up with it either. R600 will be improved upon, not become R500. Basically a refresh of the R500.

I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

you are wrong. I dont know where this is all coming from but hey, if someone wants to post some links, go for it. The 520 is a COMPLETELY new design, im not sure how many times this has to be said. The R420 is completely used up. They cannot push a transistor count of 300-350million on something like that, which is a quoted spec. You know how many transistors the R420 has? 180million.

To your last paragraph about consols needing advanced graphics to sell, what kind of reason is that? People buy consols because its a no hastle way to game, not to mention you get a wide selection of games. So are you saying once the PS2, gamecube, and Xbox graphics became outdated they stopped selling them? Do you really need me to pull out console sales figures for 2002, 2003, 2004 for these companies? Think man, you arent making a bit of sence at all. I'll most certainly buy a console(s) with my PC regaurdless of graphics for their exclusive titles alone. Not to mention, again, its a no hastle way to game. I can plug it in, pop in a disc, im off. Dont have to deal with windows, no installation, no hardware upgrade. Its a huge reason consols are so popular.

 

[diehard]

When the Xbox came out my graphics card was more powerful. What you just said is totally opposite of what has been going around. Its been said several places that the R520 would have support for more than was just needed, if it didnt you'd all complain. Its funny as hell, people buy some graphics cards for features that are not even useable today. And now those very same people say that a card coming out wont need features beyond what's needed today.......

That might not actually be true about your graphics card... I assume you had a TI500, because that is only card that was faster than what the xbox had in it. But, you could also argue that the NV2A's extra pixel shader is more important than the extra Bandwidth with the Ti500. That, and a TI500 was the same, or more money than the entire XBox. I expect something similiar with the XBox 360.. there will probably be a graphics card very comparible to it when it comes out, but it will cost more than the entire unit. Of course, the Graphics on the launch games will be better than the PC has to offer for quite a while, especially becauce PC users can no longer complain about 640x480, IMHO.

 

[Ballz2TheWallz]

Uh-huh. Right. The R420 was an extension of the R300 Core. The R520 is a totally new core built by the same team that designed the R300 Core. Run back to the nVidia forums!
lol Jk

um i heard nothing of ARTX devolping the new core,from what i know its ati all by there lonesome

 

[peltman78]

you are wrong. I dont know where this is all coming from but hey, if someone wants to post some links, go for it. The 520 is a COMPLETELY new design, im not sure how many times this has to be said. The R420 is completely used up. They cannot push a transistor count of 300-350million on something like that, which is a quoted spec. You know how many transistors the R420 has? 180million.

To your last paragraph about consols needing advanced graphics to sell, what kind of reason is that? People buy consols because its a no hastle way to game, not to mention you get a wide selection of games. So are you saying once the PS2, gamecube, and Xbox graphics became outdated they stopped selling them? Do you really need me to pull out console sales figures for 2002, 2003, 2004 for these companies? Think man, you arent making a bit of sence at all. I'll most certainly buy a console(s) with my PC regaurdless of graphics for their exclusive titles alone. Not to mention, again, its a no hastle way to game. I can plug it in, pop in a disc, im off. Dont have to deal with windows, no installation, no hardware upgrade. Its a huge reason consols are so popular.

Can you post links proving that? Obviously this is all speculation at this point. Most of this stuff came from the Beyond3d forums so take that as you will. As for the transistor count, they say adding FP32 functions will add about 30% to the transistor count, which would make 234 million transistors. Then add in any logic needed for SM3.0 and odds are minimum an extra 8 pipelines (24 as opposed to the 16 now) and you will be up in the 300 million range.

You need advanced graphics at launch so that by the end of the 4 or 5 year cycle the graphics do not look like total ass. The xbox graphics still hold up pretty well today. Maybe not to the level of a high end PC but they are good enough for most people.

And the way I understood it, the xbox GPU was basically a Geforce 4 without the redesigned memory controller.

Anyway I will wait until the official announcement from ATI before I believe anything. Just passing along the rumours I have heard.