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Quick question about LED's

S

Spartan611

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
166
Well I was talking to my dad yesterday about lighting in my soon to be computer. I told him (Which was a mistake lol) that Cold Cathode inverters can sometimes melt. He said he does not want that in the house cus it could create a fire. So I decided fine I will get LED's cus they don't have an inverter. So I was looking at LAZER LED'S by Logisys and Sunbeam and my question is this: How do you control them if they are inside your case? I want to get 5 lazer led's.

2 blue
1 red
1 white
1 UV

Do they come with a PCI controller or a switch of some sort? Cus from what I can tell they don't. So how do you control them if they are inside your case?

Thanks.
 
I think there is a lot of material on this subject in the electronics subforum. By control them do you mean turn them up and down in brightness? If so then you can either use a potentiometer or pulse width modulation, the later being the better option. All the front panels I have seen are for fans, so you might have to do a little moding.
 
or go to vibelights and get inverters that are made with a metal shroud so if something happens, they won't burn up like the shit plastic ones.
 
can anyone give a quick explanation of what an inverter does to the 12v DC supply and why CCFL's need one? Why do they have a chance of burning up?
 
Qtip42 said:
or go to vibelights and get inverters that are made with a metal shroud so if something happens, they won't burn up like the shit plastic ones.
Click to expand...


Here is my question for you. Is there any chance whatsoever of that inverter burning, melting, causing a fire, or anything of that sort?

If not, then I can try to talk to my dad again. But I need to make sure.
 
Invertors take every other pulse of the DC waveform and "invert" it, essentially creating AC voltage from DC voltage. In the process, the waveform turns from a nice well-rouned arc into something more of a square-wave, or sawtooth wave, depending on the quality of the components in the invertor.

Once you have 12VAC, then there is a coil that converts it up to 1000VAC (or whatever the actual voltage is).

There's a little bit of heat involved in the process, and if the components suck, or if there is no ventilation to let out the heat, the invertor will melt itself.
 
yes, inverters can blow up. They can pop and melt. I've had that happen to me before.

Now, to be honest, the inverter was taped to 2 cathode tubes, UV cathode tubes nonetheless. The entire ghetto-UV light was powered from an external 12v supply, but used the crappy blue inverters. I've had Cathodes in my case for about a year now, the same set, and they're totally fine. I left a pair of 4" blue CCFL's (with the crappy blue inverter) on for a full year, 24-7 in a 100% loaded dual G5 Powermac (those things generate like 450w of pure heat). Moral of the story, airflow = good, ghetto-taping a bunch of them together = bad.

Course, what I did (cuz I'm running 3 inverters) was to thermally glue the top of each one to a large socketed P3 heatsink... It gets fairly warm so, even though the heat is going through the plastic, it's doing it's job.

I second the Chameleon light that was suggested earlier... It allows you to change your case lighting to ANY colour, I bought one for my girlfriend and she loves it :).
 
i think they may still blow up, but they will be in a metal case as to not harm anyhting else
 
SarverSystems said:
Invertors take every other pulse of the DV waveform and "invert" it, essentially creating AC voltage from DC voltage. In the process, the waveform turns from a nice well-rouned arc into something more of a square-wave, or sawtooth wave, depending on the quality of the components in the invertor.

Once you have 12VAC, then there is a coil that converts it up to 1000VAC (or whatever the actual voltage is).
Click to expand...
I figured 12VDC was just 12VDC constantly. Unless DV is actually different and not a typo. I understand the concept of inverting every other pulse, I don't know where the pulses come from though.
 
ThirtySixBelow said:
I figured 12VDC was just 12VDC constantly. Unless DV is actually different and not a typo. I understand the concept of inverting every other pulse, I don't know where the pulses come from though.
Click to expand...

Basically an inverter takes +12v and switches it between two end taps of a transformer using an continuous (i forget is that called astable?) oscilator. The ground is tied to the center tap. The switching action creates an alternating current in the transformer.

For all intents and purposes DC voltage does not have a waveform. In a computer, however, DC does has a slight ripple caused by the coversion of AC into DC. It can be pretty much be ignored though.


Inverters create a substantial amount of heat because of the oscilator and transformer. If you're going to get one make sure it's a good quality one with a metal sheild/shroud. And make sure that there is plenty of air flow going across it.
 
Ok well now I am reading more and more about Cold cathodes and inverter explosions and I don't want to take the risk at all. So back to my original question. If I buy those Lazer LED's seperate and don't want to buy the Chameleon by Sunbeam, is there any way I can have an ON/OFF switch for each of the Lazer LED's? Is there a product that is made for this?
 
http://www.sunbeamtech.com/index-2.html

If you go to lights, then to laser beam LED, it looks like they are individual with molex connectors. You could probably find a switch panel to turn each one on and off.

One thing I'm curious about:
thumb_panel_back.jpg


The LEDs on the front are too bright IMO, do you think If I just cut the power line (at the red dots) to the front panel LEDs that it would b0rk anything else? Also, could I unhook those red and yellow wires (green lines) and hook them to an auxiliary rocker switch so I could mount the panel somewhere else and only have the on/off switch on the outside of the case? This way I just have one switch for all the LEDs without all the exterior clutter since I doubt I will be changing the colors enough to need that kind of access. This could also work for the user above.
 
I am going to disagree with this.

If the inverter worked as you describe, the higher quality of a PSU you would have, the less ripples in the DC waveform, and the harder it would be for the CCFL to operate properly, completely failing if your supply had a perfectly flat output.

Inverters operate at their own fundamental frequency determined by the parts in the circuit, typically oscillating with an internal LRC circuit. A perfectly constant input voltage, an ideal DC source, would be suitable for the operation.

SarverSystems said:
Invertors take every other pulse of the DV waveform and "invert" it, essentially creating AC voltage from DC voltage. In the process, the waveform turns from a nice well-rouned arc into something more of a square-wave, or sawtooth wave, depending on the quality of the components in the invertor.

Once you have 12VAC, then there is a coil that converts it up to 1000VAC (or whatever the actual voltage is).

There's a little bit of heat involved in the process, and if the components suck, or if there is no ventilation to let out the heat, the invertor will melt itself.
Click to expand...
 
Whatsisname said:
I am going to disagree with this.

If the inverter worked as you describe, the higher quality of a PSU you would have, the less ripples in the DC waveform, and the harder it would be for the CCFL to operate properly, completely failing if your supply had a perfectly flat output.

Inverters operate at their own fundamental frequency determined by the parts in the circuit, typically oscillating with an internal LRC circuit. A perfectly constant input voltage, an ideal DC source, would be suitable for the operation.
Click to expand...

That's more or less what I said. (spelling mistakes and all :) )
 
From the looks of it they come as bare LEDS, so you will need to buy or fashion a controller.
 
Whatsisname said:
From the looks of it they come as bare LEDS, so you will need to buy or fashion a controller.
Click to expand...


Ok well I just read on newegg a review of the Sunbeam Lightbus. The guy said something like it CAN be used with LED's but you need a OHM resistor or they will burn out. Can someone explain to me a few things?

1.What is an OHM resistor?
2.Where can I get one?
3.How do I hook up the Lazer LED's to the resistor and lightbus so that it will work?
4.Does any modding or soldering need to be done?

Here is a link to the review.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811998804
It is the first review there.
 
Spartan611 said:
Ok well I just read on newegg a review of the Sunbeam Lightbus. The guy said something like it CAN be used with LED's but you need a OHM resistor or they will burn out. Can someone explain to me a few things?

1.What is an OHM resistor?
2.Where can I get one?
3.How do I hook up the Lazer LED's to the resistor and lightbus so that it will work?
4.Does any modding or soldering need to be done?

Here is a link to the review.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811998804
It is the first review there.
Click to expand...

1 An ohm is the unit of resistance. The higher the number the more resistance. In his review he suggested a 560 ohm resister. What it does is limit the current going to the LED to keep it from burning out.
2. Radio Shack
3. You'll have to splice the resister into the 12v side of the connector going to the LED. (One resister per LED.)
4. Yes, you'll probably want to solder the resister to the wire ends and then insulate it somehow.
 
"If you're case has LED's, I suggest running a 560 Ohm resistor through the 12v current"
He just means a standard resistor. Any electronics store will have them, they are VERY cheap. I'm sure he ment that you need to hook up the resistor on the 12v wire because 12 volts going to the LED will blow it. You need somewhere for the voltage to drop so you only have 20mA going through the LED (common spec). So V=IR, I = 20mA (led spec), V = 12v(supply)-1.7v(led spec), then R = ~560 Ohms. Not sure about soldering or how to attach it, or what the specs are for the lazer LEDs.
 
ryan_975 said:
1 An ohm is the value of resistance. The higher the number the more resistance. In his review he suggested a 560 ohm resister. What it does is limit the current going to the LED to keep it from burning out.
2. Radio Shack
3. You'll have to splice the resister into the 12v side of the connector going to the LED. (One resister per LED.)
4. Yes, you'll probably want to solder the resister to the wire ends and then insulate it somehow.
Click to expand...


Ok I think I got it. If I have any more questions, I will be sure to ask you. :D Thanks.
 
ohm is a unit, not a value :)

ryan_975 said:
1 An ohm is the value of resistance. The higher the number the more resistance. In his review he suggested a 560 ohm resister. What it does is limit the current going to the LED to keep it from burning out.
2. Radio Shack
3. You'll have to splice the resister into the 12v side of the connector going to the LED. (One resister per LED.)
4. Yes, you'll probably want to solder the resister to the wire ends and then insulate it somehow.
Click to expand...
 
I noticed you seem pretty new to LEDs so I though I would offer suggestions before you go about hooking them to your computer. Some good practice with LEDs that you can do before puting them in something as important as your computer is to go to radio shack buy a few leds and resistor pack and try using the formula to hook them to different batteries. This way when you finally hook them up to your computer you are more familiar with all the meanings. A good starter project is to build a led flashlight out of stuff around the house. Its relativly inexpensive and a good learning experience if you plan on working with LEDs often.
 
ryan_975 said:
1 An ohm is the unit of resistance. The higher the number the more resistance. In his review he suggested a 560 ohm resister. What it does is limit the current going to the LED to keep it from burning out.
2. Radio Shack
3. You'll have to splice the resister into the 12v side of the connector going to the LED. (One resister per LED.)
4. Yes, you'll probably want to solder the resister to the wire ends and then insulate it somehow.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on that?

Which wires I have to splice? Which wire I have to solder to? Etc.

My dad knows how to solder and splice but I have to know which wires to do it with so I don't burn out anything.
 
Spartan611 said:
Could you elaborate on that?

Which wires I have to splice? Which wire I have to solder to? Etc.

My dad knows how to solder and splice but I have to know which wires to do it with so I don't burn out anything.
Click to expand...

You'll need one resistor for each LED. Put the resistor in the +12v line between the LED and the controller. Don't put the resisor in the line between the PSU and controller.
Hope this helps a bit. Pardon the MSPaintness.

Cut at the red X, and solder where the arrows are pointing. Then insulate any bare wires.
ledts5.png
 
ryan_975 said:
You'll need one resistor for each LED. Put the resistor in the +12v line between the LED and the controller. Don't put the resisor in the line between the PSU and controller.
Hope this helps a bit. Pardon the MSPaintness.

Cut at the red X, and solder where the arrows are pointing. Then insulate any bare wires.
ledts5.png
Click to expand...

Well I am kinda confused. Sorry for my inexperience.

For example:

R803.jpg


In that picture the red wire that comes from the molex connector to the lazer led, is that the one to splice and put the resistor on?

Could you mark like that picture or another picture exactly which wire I have to work with?

Thanks.
 
umm, if those have the molex connector attached right to them, they might be fine as is. That box might house some circuitry already. That package looks complete. The red wire is 5v and 3 x 1.7v LEDs is 5.1V, so it might not even need anything. :confused:
 
ThirtySixBelow said:
umm, if those have the molex connector attached right to them, they might be fine as is. That box might house some circuitry already. That package looks complete. The red wire is 5v and 3 x 1.7v LEDs is 5.1V, so it might not even need anything. :confused:
Click to expand...


Well, that is my question. I am buying the lazer leds from Sunbeam and Logisys. And I want to hook them up to a Sunbeam lightbus. But according to a review on newegg if I dont add a resistor, it will burn out the LED's. Is that correct or is the review wrong?
 
Spartan611 said:
Well, that is my question. I am buying the lazer leds from Sunbeam and Logisys. And I want to hook them up to a Sunbeam lightbus. But according to a review on newegg if I dont add a resistor, it will burn out the LED's. Is that correct or is the review wrong?
Click to expand...
The think you will want to note is which cord you are using to send the power to the LEDs. If the cord is red you should be fine, if it's yellow then it's 12v and you need the resistor. The molex is routing the red for you so you should be fine. The 12v line doesn't even make a connection with those LEDs. It appears the way those are setup they do all the work for you. The 3 to 4 pin connectors appear to be routing the 5 volt line only, so I guess maybe I am a little confused as to how 12v and the need for resistors even comes into play here.
 
ThirtySixBelow said:
The think you will want to note is which cord you are using to send the power to the LEDs. If the cord is red you should be fine, if it's yellow then it's 12v and you need the resistor. The molex is routing the red for you so you should be fine. The 12v line doesn't even make a connection with those LEDs. It appears the way those are setup they do all the work for you. The 3 to 4 pin connectors appear to be routing the 5 volt line only, so I guess maybe I am a little confused as to how 12v and the need for resistors even comes into play here.
Click to expand...

If you'll look closely, that red wire is going into the yellow molex line. so it'd be fed 12v
 
ryan_975 said:
If you'll look closely, that red wire is going into the yellow molex line. so it'd be fed 12v
Click to expand...

So I am kind of confused now. Do I need resistors or do I not?

Sorry it is just confusing me.
 
Spartan611 said:
So I am kind of confused now. Do I need resistors or do I not?

Sorry it is just confusing me.
Click to expand...

Call the manufacturer and find out. That's the only way to tell.
 
ryan_975 said:
If you'll look closely, that red wire is going into the yellow molex line. so it'd be fed 12v
Click to expand...
hmm, that seems... unconventional. I missed that. In this case, yes you would need a resistor in between your light controller and your LEDs. Assuming 3 x 1.7v leds in series with 0.02A you would need about a 350 ohm resistor.


PSU molex -> Light controller -> 3 pin out -> wire -> resistor -> wire -> LEDs
 
ThirtySixBelow said:
hmm, that seems... unconventional. I missed that. In this case, yes you would need a resistor in between your light controller and your LEDs. Assuming 3 x 1.7v leds in series with 0.02A you would need about a 350 ohm resistor.


PSU molex -> Light controller -> 3 pin out -> wire -> resistor -> wire -> LEDs
Click to expand...


Well I just talked to Sunbeam and according to them the Lazer LED's and the Sunbeam Lightbus do not need a resistor in between them. Is that true? I just want to double-check.
 
Spartan611 said:
Well I just talked to Sunbeam and according to them the Lazer LED's and the Sunbeam Lightbus do not need a resistor in between them. Is that true? I just want to double-check.
Click to expand...

If they said it and your shit burns out, then guess who gets to buy you a new one.
 
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