Questions regarding "back-end" in web designing/developing + suggestions/tips...

G

gramarye

Gawd
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
800
Hello all,
I currently have a client who is requesting that I design the website to have a backend, or a login for an admin to be able to edit certain texts for the site.

*I will include a picture of what the client actually wants exactly through his other site once I get a reply.

Questions:
- What does a back-end do, what are its functions and benefits for a client?
From my understanding, it allows the client to be able to login and edit text information without having to deal with html (kind of like myspace?)< that's all i know... :/
- Will I need a third-party software/program to create this?
- What will I need to have make a back-end possible?

Thanks for your time in reading this, and your help is most definitely appreciated! :D
 
What does a back-end do, what are its functions and benefits for a client?
It will allow someone with access to change certain aspects of the web site (or front end). The functions and benefits all depend on what you're willing to develop for them. The goal is to allow someone who is not "computer-literate" (I hate using that term :rolleyes:) to have control over their page without having to learn a great deal of things. Think of it like control panel in windows or as the example you provided... the myspace.com's "edit profile" feature.

Will I need a third-party software/program to create this?
Depends. Are you developing the web site entirely or are you using pre-existing software to create the web site?
If you're doing all the work, then why stop on the front-end, make the back-end yourself
If you're using pre-existing software, then it may have a back-end already or you may be able to find a "plug-in" to provide you with a back-end

What will I need to have make a back-end possible?
Once again, it depends on how you're developing the site.
If you're only using HTML/CSS, then you'll need to use PHP, Java, ASP, etc.
You could probably swing by with separated HTML files but it's not much a back-end but rather a file the client would have to edit when he/she wants to make changes, which may be to complicated for some, cause problems if they edit wrong, and isn't much of what the client is asking for.
 
GaryS128 said:
What does a back-end do, what are its functions and benefits for a client?
It will allow someone with access to change certain aspects of the web site (or front end). The functions and benefits all depend on what you're willing to develop for them. The goal is to allow someone who is not "computer-literate" (I hate using that term :rolleyes:) to have control over their page without having to learn a great deal of things. Think of it like control panel in windows or as the example you provided... the myspace.com's "edit profile" feature.

Will I need a third-party software/program to create this?
Depends. Are you developing the web site entirely or are you using pre-existing software to create the web site?
If you're doing all the work, then why stop on the front-end, make the back-end yourself
If you're using pre-existing software, then it may have a back-end already or you may be able to find a "plug-in" to provide you with a back-end

What will I need to have make a back-end possible?
Once again, it depends on how you're developing the site.
If you're only using HTML/CSS, then you'll need to use PHP, Java, ASP, etc.
You could probably swing by with separated HTML files but it's not much a back-end but rather a file the client would have to edit when he/she wants to make changes, which may be to complicated for some, cause problems if they edit wrong, and isn't much of what the client is asking for.
Click to expand...

I'm plagarising
 
Fark_Maniac said:
What does a back-end do, what are its functions and benefits for a client?
It will allow someone with access to change certain aspects of the web site (or front end). The functions and benefits all depend on what you're willing to develop for them. The goal is to allow someone who is not "computer-literate" (I hate using that term :rolleyes:) to have control over their page without having to learn a great deal of things. Think of it like control panel in windows or as the example you provided... the myspace.com's "edit profile" feature.

Will I need a third-party software/program to create this?
Depends. Are you developing the web site entirely or are you using pre-existing software to create the web site?
If you're doing all the work, then why stop on the front-end, make the back-end yourself
If you're using pre-existing software, then it may have a back-end already or you may be able to find a "plug-in" to provide you with a back-end

What will I need to have make a back-end possible?
Once again, it depends on how you're developing the site.
If you're only using HTML/CSS, then you'll need to use PHP, Java, ASP, etc.
You could probably swing by with separated HTML files but it's not much a back-end but rather a file the client would have to edit when he/she wants to make changes, which may be to complicated for some, cause problems if they edit wrong, and isn't much of what the client is asking for.
Click to expand...
This is plagarizing...MadJuggla,you cited.
 
Was this used with a software? Does this look familiar?

I would like to make it similar to this for the admin to login.

Are these the right steps to approach?

1) Design/make html page for backend
2) Use a .php script (w/ software?)
3) create a host site for admin


letme know your thoughts, and thanks for all the replies. much appreciated.
 
This backend you speak of is also called a "content management system". You can google that term and find much information on the subject.

I know exactly what you are wanting to do, and it will require you to use a language other than HTML to achieve. You would need to use (as stated above) php, asp, java, etc. and a database to achieve your goal.

If you are wanting to learn a couple of new languages (assuming you don't know php, asp, MySQL, etc), then you can do this yourself. If you are in a time crunch, or aren't interested in learning new languages, you can find software solutions that are premade that will do these things for you.
 
Thanks! I'll definitely look into that, that was a wonderful answer to my questions. :D
 
Fark_Maniac said:
This is plagarizing...MadJuggla,you cited.
Click to expand...

He didn't cite; he copied. Citing would involve a reference, not copying and redistributing.

Off-topic intellectual property ignorance aside, I'm worried that you're going about this the wrong way, gramarye. You should decide to implement a system with (or without) a back-end based on the requirements of the problem the system is trying to solve, not based on a request from a client that the system have a back-end.

A back-end is very different from simply allowing a few configurable bits in the site, but in your first post you seemed to use them interchangeably.
 
mikeblas said:
He didn't cite; he copied. Citing would involve a reference, not copying and redistributing.

Off-topic intellectual property ignorance aside, I'm worried that you're going about this the wrong way, gramarye. You should decide to implement a system with (or without) a back-end based on the requirements of the problem the system is trying to solve, not based on a request from a client that the system have a back-end.

A back-end is very different from simply allowing a few configurable bits in the site, but in your first post you seemed to use them interchangeably.
Click to expand...

hehe
 
mikeblas said:
He didn't cite; he copied. Citing would involve a reference, not copying and redistributing.

Off-topic intellectual property ignorance aside, I'm worried that you're going about this the wrong way, gramarye. You should decide to implement a system with (or without) a back-end based on the requirements of the problem the system is trying to solve, not based on a request from a client that the system have a back-end.

A back-end is very different from simply allowing a few configurable bits in the site, but in your first post you seemed to use them interchangeably.
Click to expand...

Actually he did cite, as you can click the arrow next to your name in his quote to view your original post.

Anyway to the topic, unless the website will need to be updated constantly or has some sort of dynamic need, I don't see why they would need it to have a management system built in. Most CMS require you to use them for the whole website so you would need to redesign their website and might end up limited by the CMS as far as page style and flow.
 
I would recommend searching and finding a CMS to use.

There are a lot out there, but I really like Joomla/Mambo (look the same now, but will be taking separate paths in the future).

The advantage of using one already made is that you get more advanced features and security. Whole communities work to find bugs and issues with many public CMS software even though its free.
 
..now i'm trying to be able to use a backend to let my client control the text/content of each page (looks something like the image below). Is it possible to create a backend without restarting over with CMS programs mentioned above? I basically want to create something with an admin login for my client, then simply controlling the text of each page (like below). I've searched CMS, a lot of them require to use the premade templates provided. Its interesting to try to understand how a code/script can control the content/text that is html of the page. sounds intense. I appreciate the replies from above. thanks.

This is all really new to me. So I apologize in advance if I asking a lot of questions.
 
You aren't necessarily going to have to start over, but you are going to have to modify a bunch of code.

Basically, since you made your site in HTML, it is a static site (it is carved in stone). There isn't any way for a program to change anything that is carved in stone. What you have to do is to code your site in such a way that the code checks a database to see what it is supposed to output (the information that your client types in and stores in the database), and then creates the HTML on the fly using that information.

Your CMS is just a set of pages that makes it easy for your client to connect to the database and make changes to whatever they are wanting to change.

Just having a backend isn't going to allow a user to change items on a site. A backend is just a program that allows a connection to a database, and presents the user with options of what changes they want to make to the database. If your frontend doesn't check that database to see what to display, then your backend is useless.

There is no magic bullet for you to solve your problem. If you want to allow your user to change items in their site, you will have to code it in a different way. You will have to use php, asp, etc. for the frontend and the backend, plus create a database to store all the webpage items. That is going to require you to do a total site recoding, but there is no way around that for what you want to do.
 
I just went and checked out your site. I like the design.

A couple of things that you may want to consider...

For the image rollovers on the menu, that can easily be done with CSS, and would not break if your visitors had javascript turned off.

Iframes are great for not having to reload pages, but the problem with them is that they aren't going to be indexed in google and such. So, right now, there is almost nothing that google is going to be able to index to get your page even remotely close to the top of the rankings. With the very little bit that you would have to reload for each page, I would certainly just do the reload. I doubt that it will take even a second more to load even on dial-up.
 
FlipperBizkut said:
I just went and checked out your site. I like the design.

A couple of things that you may want to consider...

For the image rollovers on the menu, that can easily be done with CSS, and would not break if your visitors had javascript turned off.

Iframes are great for not having to reload pages, but the problem with them is that they aren't going to be indexed in google and such. So, right now, there is almost nothing that google is going to be able to index to get your page even remotely close to the top of the rankings. With the very little bit that you would have to reload for each page, I would certainly just do the reload. I doubt that it will take even a second more to load even on dial-up.
Click to expand...

FlipperBizkut,
Thanks for the reply, these are excellent informative answers. I appreciate it a lot. I understand the whole iframes situation, i'll probably look into changing that in some time. So what i'm understanding is, a backend actually serves a lot more purposes than I first had imagined it to be. This is actually quite interesting to know. i guess, the approach i'd take would be to somehow arrange/fix the html to be able to mesh with php, asp, etc. Hopefully what I'm trying to do doesn't require too much time. As for your advice on CMS, is there anything you would recommend me to do next? any specific programs, ideas I should consider?


as for the site, i plan to make changes once I figure everything else out first. I wouldn't want to work any further knowing I should've started the other process from the start.
 
actually, when I think back-end, I think more in terms of the underlying technology that runs a dynamic website. This includes the type of database used (MySQL, MSSQL, etc..) as well as the choice of scripting language (PHP, ASP.NET, etc..) A back-end is completely invisible to the end-user, the only thing the user interacts with is the code generated by the back-end.

what you're asking for is really a CMS, which makes content management easier for end-users by handling all sorting and formatting for them. A CMS is built upon a back-end of some sort (i.e. information is stored in a database and accessed and formatted using a scripting language), and in the most basic terms it is a front-end (e.g. form input fields on a web page) whose input is processed by your back-end code (i.e. when the site owner enters info into the admin page, that info is processed by your back-end code which stores it in the database and likewise sorts, categorizes and displays it in formatted HTML for end-users to see).

think of the back-end as the engine and transmission in your car. It makes the car go, but most people never interact with it directly, they only pass it input using front-end controls (gas pedal, brakes, gear shifter)
 
gramarye said:
FlipperBizkut,
Thanks for the reply, these are excellent informative answers. I appreciate it a lot. I understand the whole iframes situation, i'll probably look into changing that in some time. So what i'm understanding is, a backend actually serves a lot more purposes than I first had imagined it to be. This is actually quite interesting to know. i guess, the approach i'd take would be to somehow arrange/fix the html to be able to mesh with php, asp, etc. Hopefully what I'm trying to do doesn't require too much time. As for your advice on CMS, is there anything you would recommend me to do next? any specific programs, ideas I should consider?


as for the site, i plan to make changes once I figure everything else out first. I wouldn't want to work any further knowing I should've started the other process from the start.
Click to expand...

Maw is exactly right. No one will ever know what your backend is. All it is is a set of instructions and code to display a bunch of form fields. Those form fields are displayed by a web browser to the admin so that they can input their changes. Those changes will be taken by the backend and stored in its database so that your website can display the updated information by looking at that database.

There is no way for you to just throw in a bit of php to make your site work as you want it to work. You are going to have to do a bunch of work on the code to get it to where you want it. Not only are you going to have to set up the database to store all the stuff, but y ou are going to have to code the backend, and then you will have to code the frontend as well.

Think of it this way... You already have the HTML. Now you will have to code the php (or asp or whatever) to dynamically create that same code on the fly. And it will have to look up items in the database to fill in the blanks.
 
Hmm... well if the customer only wants to be able to change the text contained in the content container...


why not just use a simple SSI (Server Side Include) of a text file?


Look it up on google, essentially the client will only have to place their text and perhaps the occasional BR HTML tag (To signify line breaks) into a virually included .txt file -- yeah its a rough and dirty way to get it done, but honestly look at what they are trying to do. It seems like an overly complicated system is not the best way to solve this problem.

Remember: Defining the problem is the first step. You must do this, not the client. In most cases, the client doesn't know what he really needs. The correct solution only comes from a well defined problem.
 
Jonz said:
Hmm... well if the customer only wants to be able to change the text contained in the content container...


why not just use a simple SSI (Server Side Include) of a text file?


Look it up on google, essentially the client will only have to place their text and perhaps the occasional BR HTML tag (To signify line breaks) into a virually included .txt file -- yeah its a rough and dirty way to get it done, but honestly look at what they are trying to do. It seems like an overly complicated system is not the best way to solve this problem.

Remember: Defining the problem is the first step. You must do this, not the client. In most cases, the client doesn't know what he really needs. The correct solution only comes from a well defined problem.
Click to expand...

you do have a good point there, only problem is that .txt file might be too basic, it probably wouldn't handle some ASCII characters very well, especially if they cut/paste from Word or Excel.

Another option I might throw out there is to use Dreamweaver templates, or Dreamweaver with Contribute. You basically have a ready made page with pre-defined editable regions where they can enter their content but cannot touch any of the structural elements of the page.
 
maw said:
you do have a good point there, only problem is that .txt file might be too basic, it probably wouldn't handle some ASCII characters very well, especially if they cut/paste from Word or Excel.

Another option I might throw out there is to use Dreamweaver templates, or Dreamweaver with Contribute. You basically have a ready made page with pre-defined editable regions where they can enter their content but cannot touch any of the structural elements of the page.
Click to expand...

Hey maw, thanks for the reply. I think i'm going to try your recommendation taking the Dreamweaver route. Since I have the program (came with the suite), which includes Contribute as well. Do you think you can elaborate more on how to achieve this? I've searched terms along the lines of ".php and dreamweaver", couldn't find much. From my understanding, I can somehow implement a hotspot region within the html I already created in Dreamweaver? I understand Fireworks has this feature, would Fireworks be compatible as well? I'm going to spend more time reading and searching around, I'll check our some books as well. Again, I appreciate your help, I think i'm almost there! It's been over a week, I hope you or someone else gets this :)
 
Just head over to the Adobe.com website and go the developer centrer. Search for dreamweaver and php there and it will take you to some nice tutorials.

I am using the adobe tutorials to help me with my backend design. They are really useful and go into much detail about how you can allow dreamweaver to actually write the code while you just connect the dots. I recommend the tutorial on creating a blog from scratch. It will help connect the basic ideas. heres the link to part 1 (theres 5 or 6 parts). http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/articles/php_blog1.html Plus included in the tut is a complete copy of the files the way they are supposed to work. It took me two times to get the site to work properly due to one small bt of code that was not how it should have been.

If you do that and look at some of the php development websites out there you should be ready to rock and roll. I think the hardest part is figuring out what you need to store in the data and how it should be stored. Once that is figured it basically just connecting the dots with some code.

Dont fret about the backend. Your not handling credit cards or anything like that, a simple login with admin pages is perfectly fine for you needs.

Good luck
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top