Questions on adding to my loop

[LstBrunnenG]

Right now I have a loop driven by a VPP655, cooled by an XSPC RX360 (120mmx3), with a 980X under the CPU block and a GTX 680 under the GPU block. I am planning on replacing the 680 with two Radeon R9 290s. How badly is this going to go for me?

 

[Activate: AMD]

You would want to add some more rad space in addition to the RX 360. How painful that is depends on your case and where you can fit another rad. Rads aren't too expensive, but you've got to figure $100+ for each GPU block, plus another 60-80-ish for another rad, so $300-350 would be a fairly realistic estimate.

EDIT: I see you have a 700D. Modding your lower cage are to fit a 240mm rad seems like the go-to move for most people looking to add a second rad. A 1x120mm will fit down there without modding and a 1x140mm will just barely fit with a tiny bit of dremeling and some creative use of rotaries to send your tubing through the tubing holes at the mid-plate

 

[LstBrunnenG]

I have the cards and blocks on the way already, but no additional rad. Will I melt something down if I am impatient?

 

[King Icewind]

Ops. My mistake. Referencing wrong case.

 

[Karder]

People, don't forget the fans! a pair of quality fans will cost at least $30. Depending on your puss/pull config and rad size, you might want to add another 30-100 dolares to the cost.

 

[Activate: AMD]

People, don't forget the fans! a pair of quality fans will cost at least $30. Depending on your puss/pull config and rad size, you might want to add another 30-100 dolares to the cost.

I wouldn't bother with push/pull, the extra cost is worth almost nothing in terms of performance.

@King Icewind: Not to be a jerk, but I fail to see the relevence of your case pic? OP has a much different/larger case

@OP: RX360 might be enough, but you're starting to push the limits of what most people would consider to be good practice, especially with 2 hot GPU's like the 290's. Probably worth a shot since it'll still be cooler/quieter than the stock HSF's

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Would an RX120 be enough extra to get the job done?

 

[King Icewind]

I wouldn't bother with push/pull, the extra cost is worth almost nothing in terms of performance.

@King Icewind: Not to be a jerk, but I fail to see the relevence of your case pic? OP has a much different/larger case

@OP: RX360 might be enough, but you're starting to push the limits of what most people would consider to be good practice, especially with 2 hot GPU's like the 290's. Probably worth a shot since it'll still be cooler/quieter than the stock HSF's

That was supposed to be a picture of a 700D?

EDIT: bleh.

 

[verylostindeed]

Would an RX120 be enough extra to get the job done?

It would help. Frankly, you're very unlikely to actually melt/damage anything even just with 3x120. Your temps are just not going to be too good, especially since those 290s can really put out some heat, as I understand it.

You should plan to add more rad though.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

It would help.

That doesn't sound very encouraging.

I'd really like to keep my bottom hard disk bay, because i like the ability to add more storage. That would seem to limit me to a single 120 or 140 mm radiator if I placed it in the bottom chamber. Next best option I could see would be resting it on the bottom of the upper chamber, followed by something external.

 

[Tsumi]

I wouldn't bother with push/pull, the extra cost is worth almost nothing in terms of performance.

@King Icewind: Not to be a jerk, but I fail to see the relevence of your case pic? OP has a much different/larger case

@OP: RX360 might be enough, but you're starting to push the limits of what most people would consider to be good practice, especially with 2 hot GPU's like the 290's. Probably worth a shot since it'll still be cooler/quieter than the stock HSF's

Push/pull would help depending on the radiator and fan speed involved. With the RX360, push/pull likely won't help much.

@OP Since you already have the things on the way, I would just set it up and see what happens. You might not get the desired less than 10 C water to air delta, but it probably would perform well enough. The worse you would lose out on is maybe 1 gallon of distilled water and a few hours.

 

[verylostindeed]

That doesn't sound very encouraging.

I'd really like to keep my bottom hard disk bay, because i like the ability to add more storage. That would seem to limit me to a single 120 or 140 mm radiator if I placed it in the bottom chamber. Next best option I could see would be resting it on the bottom of the upper chamber, followed by something external.

I'd guess you would be fine w/ 4x120. You might not get the best temps you would with more rad, but should be ok. I run 4x120 with a i7 920 at 4ghz and a GTX 690. Temps are fine but certainly not record breaking.

 

[Activate: AMD]

That doesn't sound very encouraging.

I'd really like to keep my bottom hard disk bay, because i like the ability to add more storage. That would seem to limit me to a single 120 or 140 mm radiator if I placed it in the bottom chamber. Next best option I could see would be resting it on the bottom of the upper chamber, followed by something external.

I think 4x120 would be enough. Under full load you'll still be far cooler than the stock HSF with a lower sound signature

 

[MD]

One 360 can not cool CPU and two GPU. Period.

Difference between one or two GPU in system is huge. Cooling CPU is easy. Cooling CPU and one GPU is easy. Cooling two GPU and one CPU starts all new level.

Up to now I see that minimum radiator setup to cool it was 360 + 240 or + 2x 120. Or two 240 monster rads with proper fans. Or 2x 240 and one 120. Good 120.

It all depends on case space. I would go with additional 360 to be kinda future proof. Or Monster 240 if only 240 place is available.

At this moment I am cooling my i7 2600K @5 GHz and two 7970GHz cards with Monster 480 + Monster 240. Two pumps (in series) and EK 400mm tube reservoir.

In other setup I haver had Monster 240, X-changer 240 and Phobya 120 cooling similar setup. Monster 240 and X-changer could not do it alone. That little 120 Phobya is good though. In one small system it cools a I7 920 and 6970 with no issues (though user is not tasking that machine that much).

So if Monster 240 and TFC X-changer 240 can not handle it proper one 360 has no chance either.

 

[Activate: AMD]

One 360 can not cool CPU and two GPU. Period.

Difference between one or two GPU in system is huge. Cooling CPU is easy. Cooling CPU and one GPU is easy. Cooling two GPU and one CPU starts all new level.

Up to now I see that minimum radiator setup to cool it was 360 + 240 or + 2x 120. Or two 240 monster rads with proper fans. Or 2x 240 and one 120. Good 120.

It all depends on case space. I would go with additional 360 to be kinda future proof. Or Monster 240 if only 240 place is available.

At this moment I am cooling my i7 2600K @5 GHz and two 7970GHz cards with Monster 480 + Monster 240. Two pumps (in series) and EK 400mm tube reservoir.

In other setup I haver had Monster 240, X-changer 240 and Phobya 120 cooling similar setup. Monster 240 and X-changer could not do it alone. That little 120 Phobya is good though. In one small system it cools a I7 920 and 6970 with no issues (though user is not tasking that machine that much).

So if Monster 240 and TFC X-changer 240 can not handle it proper one 360 has no chance either.

I have a 4770k and 2 overclocked 7970's on a 360 + 140mm. It completely capable of cooling everything well below the temps I was getting on air-cooling. I think you are seriously exaggerating the cooling requirements.

 

[Tsumi]

I have a 4770k and 2 overclocked 7970's on a 360 + 140mm. It completely capable of cooling everything well below the temps I was getting on air-cooling. I think you are seriously exaggerating the cooling requirements.

Agreed. I had two 580s and a 920 on a 3x140 radiator, Black Ice GTS to be exact. With 3 1500 RPM Aerocool Silver Lightning fans (140x20mm) set to ~50%, it was more than enough for most gaming loads. More intense loads, I just brought it up to 100%, but it's still better than the stock blowers on the 580s.

 

[MD]

I have a 4770k and 2 overclocked 7970's on a 360 + 140mm. It completely capable of cooling everything well below the temps I was getting on air-cooling. I think you are seriously exaggerating the cooling requirements.

It is easy to go under air cooling temps. Even 20 degree C under air temperatures is easy. I do not have anything against such cooling system if it can work under full load for hours. 70 to 80 degree GPU temps are fine for GPU if they do not keep crawling up over time. I have seen to many times that systems like that tend to become unstable over time. But if does not overheat, then more power to you my friend. Rock on. Only then you have invested in Water blocks for GPU's and you use just a fraction of what they are capable off.

On other side it seams that all good dimensioned systems get 40 to 50 degree C full load and will never overheat. Such systems will OC better as well.

OFC I speak about temperatures where room temperature is between 20 and 23 degree C. I was better off naming Delta but do not want to complicate.

Well I give my recommendations and sometimes I forget to explain why or how do I solve challenges. Sometimes it is just not to bother everyone with wall of text and most of the time I do not want to sound as someone who wants to prove that he is experienced. Kinda to old for that

Let me then explain my preferences. I do not like to use thin radiators with high fin density. I like to use thick radiators with medium fin density or even lower density. Alphacool Monster radiators are my preferred radiators ATM and I lowed TFC X-changers series and Phobya G series. For low noise I would not be afraid of XSPC RX series even. I like to use fans with high pressure but low noise. I tend to go for 1300- 1600 RPM fans and mostly regulate them to somewhere around 1K or 1,1K depending on a type of a fan. I love Noctua NF-P and NF-F series. I use to love Triebwerk fans to.
I rather have same effect with push/pull low noise fans then single side fans at high rpm. Cooling effect might be same but noise is not. It is more expensive though. Also this does not apply on thinner radiators where push pull makes even less sense but works great with 80 mm thick radiators I like to use.
Regarding to pumps I tend to overkill with pumps but use some measure of controlling them. So all bigger builds use D5 with RPM control option and I tend/like to keep them around 3 if possible.

I will spend hours fine tuning fan speeds and pump speeds to avoid big loss of performance and to bring down noise levels to acceptable levels for me. First I play with fan speeds with pumps on maximum. Once I have nice airflow true radiators and decent noise levels I will slow down pump till temps would rise and work my way up till I get results at almost same levels when pump/pumps where at maximum setting.

There for I tend to go with slightly more radiators but lower noise. I also like to build Future proof systems. Little overkill gives you advantage. Like it is better to get once radiators and build them in in first session then to get small radiators and to have to get bigger once latter on anyway. Then it is better to get bigger radiators with first build.

So if case can handle 360 and 240 go for it. It is better then 360 and 120 or 140.

How do I know how much radiators I need taking in notice way I build my systems? Well some of it is just plain experience. Like for so many water block's in the loop I have always used that many radiators. Other time is my calculation of how much actual heat heat sources produce and how many watt's can be cooled with given radiator. Then again I am not going with data given by manufacturer of radiator but I go with what I have experienced. For example some good companies claim their 120 MM radiators can cool like 700 watt. Hence if taken out of the concept it means you could cool his setup with single 120. But if you research you would see that that 120 would still function with that much heat but would be at extremely high temperature and would ask for certain water flow.

So first I see how much watts I need to cool. Add OC values together and worse case scenario. One CPU + two GPU will make 700 watt easy. To cool that with water flow I get and air flow I get I use at least 360 + 240 and then minimum 45mm or 60mm thick. I will also have at least 1,5L coolant in system. I will keep hoses as short as possible. I will avoid 90 degree fittings and sharp turns. I will use only “native” pump outlets hence side outlet and heat intake. Reservoir will be at highest position and pump at lowest position. Pump intake will be fed directly from bottom of a reservoir.

I could go with two 240 Alphacool Monster radiators as well though.

According to my principles one GPU asks for 240mm radiator at least when in single loop. One 120 could cool it but on higher temps and could cool it in separate loop.

CPU can be cooled with single 120 even but enjoys 240 and will OC higher with it. I have never witnessed much advantage when going with 360 for CPU only.

So 360 + 240 is my preferred amount of radiators in such loop.

Personally I went for Monster 480 + Monster 240. With fan and pump setup I use it is just slight Overkill. With high airflow and full pump setup I could cool way more though.

At least I do not do it for show. Like someone I know have used 3x 480 + 240 (all Monsters) and 6 DCC pumps(with triple tops) cooling Titan two way SLI and CPU. Well that is radiator Over kill even if you go low noise. I mean you can not slow down fans under certain level and still push air true 80mm radiator. Some airflow has to stay.
Or like Linus did. Nonsense. 5 radiators 3 water blocks and single D5 in stock form (no top and no 24V)

I refer to radiators that are 60mm thick, as triple thickness radiators. I refer to 80 mm as quad thickness. So 120mm 80mm thick radiator is worth 4 120mm units if that makes any sense to you. 240 radiator 80mm thick is like 8 units worth. Triple thickness 360 is 9 units etc etc.

In low/lower noise setup, with fans at 1K and middle density to lower density fins radiators, I take that one CPU and two GPU (250 watt GPU) asks for 15-17 units at least. At that level GPU's will be cooled at 40 to 50 degree C and CPU will not go more then 70 degree C what ever you do to it.

That in good loop and nicely ventilated.

Also I prefer heavier radiators and full copper radiators. They just absorb more heat before they start getting overrun by amount of heat. That and certain amount of coolant is your thermal reserve. To much is not good but I always make sure I do not go under my minimum.

I guess this explains my claims. Just way I do it not best way to do it or way everyone should do

 

[Activate: AMD]

That is very nice, except you're still overstating the need for cooling area. I have an RX360 (60mm) and UT-45 (45mm), both of which are low FPI rads (UT45 vs UT60 due to space constraints). My temps are rock steady at 100% F@H/mining/gaming load at about 45-50C for days on end with my fans on high (AP120's on 360, Noctua A14PWM) and creep a bit to low-mid 50's if I turn them down to 50-60%. This is with a 4.3ghz @ 1.2v oc'd 4770k (haven't bothered trying for more) and 2x7970's @ 1100/1500. D5 pump @ 5 since I can't hear it at any speed. Point is, I've got more than enough capacity at 360+140 and based on OP's setup would fully expect 4x120 to be pretty close, and 3x360 to offer a quieter solution for OP than air even if that is far less than ideal.