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Questions about WCing

K

Kr1z

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,304
WaterCooling Questions

Are NB waterblocks worth it? Shouldn't the CPU block help cool the motherboard?
I have around $300 for watercooling, can that get me a high quality wcing system?
What is the difference between the Fuzion V1 and V2 CPU blocks?
I see all kind of tubing, which size is the best?
The pumps seem to all have the same specs but cost difference is almost double, what should I be looking for?
What is the coolant and how do you use it?
What is the point of the Radiator? It looks like a grill to me, with some tube sticking out, does the water go through there?
With watercooling is it neccessary for fans, excluding the rad?

I would like it to look like this if possible :p
So pretty ;]
http://www.overclockersclub.com/gallery/cases/1368-1st-intel-build.html
http://www.xoxide.com/lianlipcv1000b.html
Possible in that case?
 
First off, unless you have some serious modding skillz, I would recommend selecting something a bit more watercooling friendly than that lian li case as you'll have difficulty squeezing a radiator into it.

Now to your list of questions:
1. depends on your chipset and your overclocking expectations. The CPU block will not cool anything but the CPU.
2. there were some slight manufacturing changes between the 2 revisions. The V2 is a bit more restrictive than the V1 as shipped.
3. This is a matter of personal preference more than anything else. In general, try and go with thick-walled tubing to help avoid kinking or collapsing due to pressure.
4. For the money, you will have a hard time beating this pump: http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=356&cat=4&page=1 It's been shown to outperform some of the more expensive pumps. More to the question, flowrate is very important but it doesn't mean much without head pressure.
5. There are lots of different kinds of coolant. Generally you can break it down to pre-mixed and ready to use or additives which you add to distilled water.
6. The radiator is actually what performs the cooling in the loop. It's function is the same as the radiator in your car. It cools the water so your components don't overheat.
7. Fans are generally necessary for the radiator. If you don't want to use fans, you would need lots of surface area which would mean a gigantic radiator.

As for your price point, $300 should be enough for a really good CPU cooling loop.
 
Are NB waterblocks worth it? Shouldn't the CPU block help cool the motherboard?

Totally depends on the board, the amount you plan on OCing and the chipset. Usually, no...

I have around $300 for watercooling, can that get me a high quality wcing system?

This can get you a decent GPU + CPU setup if you're willing to make a few sacrifices... Like a Tline setup and Masterkleer tubing.

What is the difference between the Fuzion V1 and V2 CPU blocks?

V2 performs a bit better but has more restriction, I'd get the cheapest of the two.

I see all kind of tubing, which size is the best?

I like using 1/2" barbs with 7/16" masterkleer tubing.

The pumps seem to all have the same specs but cost difference is almost double, what

should I be looking for?

Your best bet is the MCP655 with speed control. Yes, it's almost 100$, but it's also the most reliable IMO, and is a solid performer.

What is the point of the Radiator? It looks like a grill to me, with some tube sticking out, does the water go through there?

Yes! The radiator is where the heat that the CPU and GPU produces escapes the water. If you didn't have a radiator with fans on it, your water temperature would increase indefinitely until the entire system shut down!

With watercooling is it neccessary for fans, excluding the rad?

Usually one or two, yes... Over the the GPU's power circuitry if you plan on OCing your card... Over you NB and RAM if you OC those, and always a small fan over your HDD's.
Click to expand...

Responded in quote.
 
Kr1z said:
What is a Tline setup?

http://picasaweb.google.pl/GIZIU85/WCByGIZIURev50#5261908547896038514

2 mosfets, nb, cpu, gpu?
Is the MCP655 capable of doing a loop that big :O?
Its possible for me to bump up the budget to $400.

Your saying $300 for a decent GPU+CPU, seems like a lot for "decent" lol.
What would be an able of a "high end" watercooling system?

Is tubing quality a big factor and how high does tubing run up to?
Click to expand...

A T-Line is a point in your WC loop where you have a bit that basically forms a T, with the bottom usually plugged to use as a drain port. It usually is used to eliminate the need for a reservoir but I would recommend getting a res.

300 will not get you a setup that includes mosfets/nb/cpu/gpu. My setup for just the CPU with allowed expandability for GPU by buying a MCR220 in teh future cost me about 400. Then again I bought compression fittings which aren't required but I believe in performance and safety. You could achieve the same results with worm clamps and zip ties but the former looks nicer.

If you want 2 mosftes, gpu, nb, cpu, I would recommend a MCP355+XSPC res top. The MCP655 is a great pump by all means, but a setup like that usually is fairly restrictive around the mosfets and NB, so the MCP355 WITH a custom top will have the most head pressure. I'm not sure how well the MCP655 vario is with custom tops compared to the MCP355 with a XSPC top. I'll let some others answer that question. The MCP655 could probably get the job done but for best performance, the MCP355 with a custom top seems to be the best choice.

Tubing is an alright sorta thing. You could get Tygon tubing which is like the best standard for WC tubing but also runs at 3.50/foot. I settled for duralene (which is made by the same company as Tygon) which was about 60 cents/foot for 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD tubing. Tubing size might be an issue when you run with such a restrictive setup of 2 mosfets/nb/cpu/gpu, so I would recommend 1/2 ID x 3/4 OD tubing. But again, that's for best performance/maximum flow. 3/8" ID tubing is easier to manage/organize and also looks nicer, but you sacrifice flow for it. You may also run into kinks easier with thinner tubing.
 
XSPC Top $20
Swiftech MCP355 $65
D-Tek Fuzion V1 $55
EK-MultiOption 4 Port RES 150 Rev. 2 Liquid Cooling Reservoir $40
Swiftech MCR320-QP $50

1/2 ID x 3/4 OD tubing $???
Coolant

$230 w/o tubing and coolant, how much feet would I need, If I am going 2 mosfets, nb, cpu, gpu?

I guess I'll only go CPU for now and expand it later on?
Sounds good enough for that?
 
When I WC'd I initially used a piece of garden hose to estimate how much tubing I would need, then added an additional 5 feet for fuck ups. Just plan ahead. Visualize where everything is going to go, then start mocking up the setup to make sure you have everything you need, and then add some extra. Measure 3 times, cut once.

Res is a good idea, less hassle with bleeding the system of air.

As for tubing size, it depends on what fittings you'll be using. You'll go by ID (inside diameter) for barbed fittings, OD(outside diameter) for compression fittings. If all you plan on cooling is the CPU and GPU you can get away with 3/8" ID tubing. If you are going to add NB, mosfets and RAM later on it might be better to go with the larger 1/2". The larger the tubing, the harder it will be to make bends and such, the more you will need to reinforce the bends with zip ties, springs or outside coil. Flow rate will always be restricted by the fittings anyways, so you realistically could use 3/8 for your entire loop, just make sure you have a beefy pump.
 
I highly recommend Tygon tubing. I've had the cheaper stuff and then i got Tygon. The tygon tubing seems to be clearer and just plain looks better, not to mention that it tends to bend Tighter without Kinking. The downside to Tygon is that its nearly 3x the price but in my opinion worth it, if you do not plan on changing the loop much that would make you waste some tubing.

If your looking for a complete setup This Kit is very nice, and well priced. I purchased My water cooling Gear from them.

I also Recommend getting s Syringe for filling your system. Its only 3 bux and its well worth it.

My current setup is :
Pump: Laing DDC 3.2 Pump with Petra's Top

Water Block: D-TEK FuZion

Radiator: PA120.2

Fans: 2x Yate Loon D12SM

Resivoir: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Reservoir

Coolant: Distilled Water and HydrX Extreme-Duty UV Coolant

Tubing: 1/2 ID x 3/4 OD Tygon
 
I'd prefer the Swiftech GTZ over the Dtek as it's the hottest block on the market right now.

Tygon tubing is nice, but Duralene is just as good and a fraction of the price. There's stories of people who bought Tygon and had growth but no growth when they switched to Duralene, vice versa. So it's really about the "bling" factor I guess.

I got 15 feet of Duralene for my setup and have plenty to spare, probably about a foot or two, but that's because I had a last minute change in where I put the pump.

Please do not use the HydrX coolant. It's terrible and overpriced. Just get straight distilled water and some PTnuke and you're good to go.

If you decide to get the MCP355, I would prefer to get the XS res top to eliminate the need for an extra res. You can take a look at my WC work log if you want an idea of all the parts.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1371848
 
Well it seems the 2 Mofsets and NB will cost quite a lot after looking into it. So I might just go passive cooling on those parts with a Thermalright city :] Thermalright HR-05 IFX, HR-05, HR-09 Mofset coolers.

So I changed my mind to go try a CPU+GPU watercooling setup.

What are the best clamps/fittings? What are compression fittings?

http://www.petrastechshop.com/1id3odtyr.html
Good tubing?

I woud like to have the best/high/or closest to high end possible parts for cooling. I really hate buying cheap and changing them later on. Might just get the CPU block first then add the GPU later on.
 
That is some very good tubing you linked to if you want to go with 1/2 inch ID. If you want the best of everything right now, then you should be looking at the Swiftech GTZ CPU block and either a Thermochill or Feser radiator. As far as the best fittings go, there's no real good answer for that as there are lots of good ones of different types. It's mostly a matter of personal preference. Basically, you have barbs or compression fittings to choose from. Barbs will require that you use clamps or zip ties to secure the tubing. Compression fittings have a ring that screws over the tubing, compressing it against the fitting inside. I prefer compression fittings because I find them easier to work with than barbs and I think they look a bit cleaner. Here's a link to pics of my system so you can see what I'm talking about: http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033271344&postcount=593

You'll see many others also using them in the thread.
 
For a pump should I go for the earlier recommended MCP655? Or is there something better? This is probably the hardest component that I can't seem to understand >.>


EK-MultiOption 4 Port RES 150 Rev. 2 Liquid Cooling Reservoir $40
Swiftech GTZ CPU $70
1/2 ID x 3/4 OD Tygon $3/foot
Would this be the best size of tubing to go with?

How many feet do I need?

How many Compression Fittings should I need?
Which are the best?
I would like to buy some extra for the GPU added later on.
Which coolant? If it were blue that would be a plus :]

Now onto the radiator, I'm seeing all types and sizes, and I'm planning on getting a new case, once I figure that out, I'll get back to that, but I really don't need to choose a radiator at this moment to pick at the rest of the other parts, right?
 
So to sum things up to this point. You have decided that you are going to go CPU + GPU(maybe added later) and your looking at all High end parts...

The general consensus and hottest CPU block is Swiftech GTZ and runs ~$65

For Radiators Most people agree that Thermochill and feser are the best. For dual 120mm both run ~$110

As recommended by soulesschild Swiftech MCP355 12v DC Pump ~$65

also recommended by soulesschild XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC ~$40

12 Feet of tubing is usually plenty with some left over. Tygon ~$37 Durelene ~$9

so that puts you at $320 (with tygon tubing) All these are currently in stock at these prices at sidewindercomputers.com


You'll need Fans to put on the Radiator if you don't have some, along with some water additives

I highly recommend you get some metal fittings if you get the Thermalchill Radiator, I had problems with the provided ones leaking... they only cost $5 for a pair and well worth it.
 
Depending what you're getting cooling. If you plan on cooling the new i7 and 4870x2's in CF or 280's in SLI, you'll need a quad rad for all of it (though I'd have to ask someone like Arcygenical to make sure it'll be adequate) I'd recommend Feser Quad 480. Or the newly released GTX 560 or some monstrous beast such as that. Else go with dual triple rad loops. Thermochill or Feser works.

For fans, if you want to save a bit of money and lose maybe 5-10% of performance, you can get the Swiftech MCR320's for a fraction of the price the triple thermochill/feser rads cost. Get two of those and you should be set. Swiftech MCR's work best with medium Yate Loons. The Thermochill/Feser's can use even slower fans like the Yate Loons low speed versions but I find that I can hardly hear a difference. Especially if everything is hooked onto a fan controller which you'll also want.

I believe thermochill rad's use 3/8" BSPP fittings correct?

For fluid, use pure distilled water + PTnuke/pure silver. The coolant stuff isn't worth it.
 
Kr1z, I think you really need to do a bit more reading on this subject. I know you're just starting out, but It appears like you're still running through the dark right now... Many of your questions can be answered with basic knowledge of WC setups.

I'm available for consultation over MSN (my email is in my profile) normally, but I'm in Exams until Saturday. Feel free to add me and we can talk in real time, but forgive my lack of responsiveness until the weekend ;)
 
soulesschild said:
I believe thermochill rad's use 3/8" BSPP fittings correct?
it.
Click to expand...

That is correct!
soulesschild said:
For fluid, use pure distilled water + PTnuke/pure silver. The coolant stuff isn't worth it.
it.
Click to expand...
I agree (even tho I'm using the coolant stuff cuz i had it lay'n around) if you want the blue you can get some UV blue additive and put a few drops in.

If your going to get new fittings for everything you'll need 2 for each: Pump, Radiator, CPU Waterblock, GPU Waterblock.
 
Right now I'm cooling a Q6600, and a GTX 260. Future upgades I would consider would be a 4870x2 or a gtx 295, if those are considered multi gpu? I don't think I'll be going i7 for a while, I think this Q6600 overclocked to 3.6GHZ+ will last me a while. I'm definitely looking for a silent system, I have medium Yate Loons are these things are pretty loud... Possible to have something like 3 or 2 Antec Tri-Cools that run at 1,200RPM, and 39CFM running on the rad?
 
Op has to do a bit more research, but I'd definitely recommend:

Worm Clamps. A lot more secure than zip ties.

Apogee GTZ / easy mounting system / nice temps

Feser colored tubing at PetrasTechShop if you want colored tubing

Feser Radiator as they are the best..and might as well get a decent rad as it will last you for five years or more.

Swiftech MCP 655

Use a Big Reservoir instead of a T-Line as it is faster to bleed.
 
Final Parts
X-Flow Black Ice Pro III $50
Swiftech Apogee GTZ $75
Swiftech MCP655 $65
EK-MultiOption 4 Port RES 150 $40
1/2" ID (3/4" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing 12 Feet $10.20$
$240 w/o shipping
 
Looks like I will be ordering everything next wednesday, everything looking good?
 
the printing press i operate at work uses tygon tubing. :D

ive always used masterkleer on my computer though, so it's all good.
 
You might want to check out the tubing at SidewinderComputers. I bought about 25' of it because it has similar properties to Tygon tubing but cheaper. ;)

The only downside to SidewinderComputers is that they don't have Yate Loon fans. :( But Scythe's are just as good, little expensive, but still good.
 
I'm debating with the MCR320-QP and the Black Ice Pro 3, which the better one for lower speed fans? Something like Yate Loon Low speed fans.
 
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