Can someone explain the relationship between frequency (60hz) and your FPS (frames per second) in LCD monitors. I use to think that the frequency of an LCD was irrelevant. I thought that response time was what determined your maximum FPS, and if you bought a monitor with a low enough response time you could game at 100+ FPS.
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question regarding 60hz lcd's
- Thread starter natty
- Start date
No. The frequency of display updates determines the maximum amount of frames that a display can receive. So if a display is receiving at 60Hz, then it can display not more than 60 frames per second. Response time plays a role in that if your response time is too slow, a display might not be able to fully form an image before the next one comes in. So if you had a 30ms response, it couldn't display 60 discrete images per second and thus would just kind of blur things.
Now one thing to note about LCDs is that I'm not aware of any of them that can handle a refresh rate of over 60Hz. There are plenty that will accept input signals over that, at least on the analogue inputs, but that is for compatibility only. They simply drop frames to get it down to 60 since that is what the electronics are set up for.
More or less, when you use an LCD you need to simply enable vsync and shoot for a solid 60 fps. Trying tricks to go past that is likely to do nothing but degrade the image.
Now one thing to note about LCDs is that I'm not aware of any of them that can handle a refresh rate of over 60Hz. There are plenty that will accept input signals over that, at least on the analogue inputs, but that is for compatibility only. They simply drop frames to get it down to 60 since that is what the electronics are set up for.
More or less, when you use an LCD you need to simply enable vsync and shoot for a solid 60 fps. Trying tricks to go past that is likely to do nothing but degrade the image.
More or less, when you use an LCD you need to simply enable vsync and shoot for a solid 60 fps. Trying tricks to go past that is likely to do nothing but degrade the image.
So why are people always talking about LCD's that are 'good for FPS gaming' when all of them are stuck at 60 FPS? Because as a competitive FPS gamer I can tell you that 60 FPS is absolutely horrible. Someone playing at 100 FPS will have a huge advantage over someone playing at 60. It's much harder to aim a weapon at 60.
Now one thing to note about LCDs is that I'm not aware of any of them that can handle a refresh rate of over 60Hz. There are plenty that will accept input signals over that, at least on the analogue inputs, but that is for compatibility only. They simply drop frames to get it down to 60 since that is what the electronics are set up for.
This seems odd because I'm using an old Sony SDM-HS73 LCD right now. I was gaming on it at 60hz for a while and then I switched to 75hz recently. After switching I noticed that my games ran much smoother, which is consistent with an increase in FPS. Even though this monitor is around 4 years old, is it possible that I have one of the few screens that supports 75hz?
When people say that an LCD is good for FPS gaming, it's a relative to other LCD's that are even worse. An LCD that is "good" for FPS gaming will have low response time and low input lag. But as you've discovered, even the best LCD's are stuck at a low refresh rate. This is the main reason why a good CRT still blows the doors off of LCD's for competitive FPS gaming. Even if an LCD had 0ms response time and 0ms of input lag, you'd still be stuck at 60hz whereas a CRT can do 100hz (or significantly higher) depending on the resolution.
The majority of current LCD's can only do 60hz and will simply drop every 5th frame if you send it 75hz. However, there are a handful of LCD's that can handle 75hz properly and it's possible you have one of them.
If you do play FPS games on an LCD, you're better off with vsync off. Yes you'll get tearing, but it's better than the alternative - increased input lag.
The majority of current LCD's can only do 60hz and will simply drop every 5th frame if you send it 75hz. However, there are a handful of LCD's that can handle 75hz properly and it's possible you have one of them.
If you do play FPS games on an LCD, you're better off with vsync off. Yes you'll get tearing, but it's better than the alternative - increased input lag.
The HS73 does indeed support a true 75Hz without skipping any frames, as does the smaller HS53. I think there are actually quite a few LCDs in the 15-19" range that will do it, and one or two 22" monitors as well (the Samsung 226BW is rumored to do so).
Refresh rates on current LCDs are probably the biggest reason why I still use a CRT for gaming -- there's really just no comparison between the choppy motion at 60 FPS on most LCDs and 100+ on a good CRT. 75Hz is marginally better, but there aren't any high quality panels that are capable of it.
Refresh rates on current LCDs are probably the biggest reason why I still use a CRT for gaming -- there's really just no comparison between the choppy motion at 60 FPS on most LCDs and 100+ on a good CRT. 75Hz is marginally better, but there aren't any high quality panels that are capable of it.
Thanks for the responses. It's disappointing to realize how limited the technology still is. I was under the impression that a good LCD nowadays would be capable of higher frame rates.
On the other hand.... if the above poster is right about my screen supporting a true 75hz then I am very lucky, as I didn't have a clue about any of this when I was buying.
Two more questions....
1) I would only be interested in buying a new LCD that supports a *true* 75hz. How can one find out which screens on the market support this?
2) How long do you think it will be before LCD's with support for > 75hz come out?
On the other hand.... if the above poster is right about my screen supporting a true 75hz then I am very lucky, as I didn't have a clue about any of this when I was buying.
Two more questions....
1) I would only be interested in buying a new LCD that supports a *true* 75hz. How can one find out which screens on the market support this?
2) How long do you think it will be before LCD's with support for > 75hz come out?
2) How long do you think it will be before LCD's with support for > 75hz come out?
I have no idea, but I'm not optimistic about it. There seems to be little reason for LCD manufacturers to provide displays with higher refresh rates when most people either aren't even aware of the limitation or are not bothered by it.
1) I would only be interested in buying a new LCD that supports a *true* 75hz. How can one find out which screens on the market support this?
You and me both. There's very little information about which displays are capable of it, though. You can pretty much bet on any display using a panel type other than TN being unable to support it, and there is definitely nothing above 22 inches that can.
If the Samsung 226BW can handle it as some people have claimed it can, that might be the largest and highest quality LCD you'll find with 75Hz, unfortunately. Some of LG's new 22" models might support it, but I haven't heard much about it.
I spoke to someone recently with an HS-73 who said the same thing that you did -- games were noticeably smoother after switching to 75Hz. He was running it over VGA however, if it makes any difference with that particular model. No idea about the HS-75.
I also have an HS53 here on one of my computers (which is probably the same thing, just in a smaller size) that most definitely supports 75Hz -- I've had LCDs that skip frames at higher refresh rates, and this isn't one of them. The HS53 is VGA only, so again I don't know if there'd be any difference on yours over DVI, but I doubt it.
I also have an HS53 here on one of my computers (which is probably the same thing, just in a smaller size) that most definitely supports 75Hz -- I've had LCDs that skip frames at higher refresh rates, and this isn't one of them. The HS53 is VGA only, so again I don't know if there'd be any difference on yours over DVI, but I doubt it.