Question about IP's and my ISP

Sturmangriff

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
229
I have been having some problems with my ISP (Cableone) and latency issues..especially during primetime/weekends. I guess they have oversold and have been told they are allegedly working on it...yeah right...But while investigating this doing some tracerts I noticed something I need clarification on.

When I did a tracert to a website the first hop was a 10.100.x.x (which sometimes has latency issues)address followed by two 192.168.x.x addresses (which is where the latency seems to be the highest most of the time)before hitting Level 3.

My first question is Does this seem right? I have only ever seen 192.168.x.x while dealing with my home network.

I signed up for a VPN (PrivateInternetAccess) and tested the same tracert and the first hop was a 10.178.x.x address followed by the second hop which was the vpn..Softlayer. Using the VPN seems to help my latency issues somewhat, I guess because it's bypassing the 2nd and 3rd 192.168.x.x addresses.

My second question is: Would this VPN be an alternative I could use for gaming until hopefully the local issues get sorted out...or is it a matter of if the problem is local...you are screwed whether you use a VPN or not?

Thanks for reading.
 
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plupien79

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
238
10. anything is a private IP... it seems that you are NATted from your ISP and don't have your very own public IP.
 

Cmustang87

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
4,498
If your first hop is 10.100.x.x, then that is your default gateway if you're pinging out to the internet or using tracert outside of your LAN. Do an IP config /all and paste it here to verify.

Tracert over a VPN isn't going to troubleshoot your issue at home on your LAN not on the VPN. They are 2 seperate networks.

EDIT: Yes what above poster has said. It seems they have a Modem/Gateway combination and you are double NATted behind that.

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/networking/fixing_double_nat.htm
 
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Sturmangriff

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
229
Here is my ipconfig/all...thanks for the help guys

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\BAM>ipconfig/all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Lightning-DNA
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : TAP-Win32 Adapter V9
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-FF-4A-B9-3E-4F
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection 2:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Network)
#2
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 60-6C-66-B6-B9-A2
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Wireless LAN adapter Local Area Connection* 2:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Wi-Fi Direct Virtual Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 60-6C-66-B6-B9-9F
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Killer e2200 Gigabit Ethernet Controller
(NDIS 6.30)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : D4-3D-7E-BA-A5-82
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::d4a4:aa79:5924:9df9%4(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.11(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, May 20, 2014 1:51:34 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, May 20, 2014 3:51:36 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 433339774
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1A-1E-3D-42-60-6C-66-B6-B9-9E

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 8.8.8.8
8.8.4.4
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Centrino(R) Wireless-N 2230
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 60-6C-66-B6-B9-9E
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:9d38:90d7:10e0:1840:bcc2:87ea(Pref
erred)
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10e0:1840:bcc2:87ea%9(Preferred)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 150994944
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1A-1E-3D-42-60-6C-66-B6-B9-9E

NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.{E1B01CAD-2F39-431F-801E-D29EC5E3D4CA}:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #2
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

C:\Users\BAM>

C:\Users\BAM>
 

bds1904

Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
1,007
Call your isp and ask if they are using carrier grade nat.

Most isp's out there have stopped using 10.0.0.0/8 on their client to prepare for CGN. Sounds like your ISP has already rolled it out.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
24
Side note....

Tracing over a VPN does NOTHING to troubleshoot latency issues. When you trace over a VPN, you will see the tunnel end points in the trace, but NOTHING between there.


For example: (for the sake of explaining trace over VPN, ignore the IP addresses, they are used only as examples)

Consider this as a trace with NO VPN tunnel on it... Tracing from host computer 192.168.1.101, you will see the following trace to far end host 10.10.10.100

DSL Router LAN side - 192.168.1.1
DSL Router WAN side (internet side) - 1.1.1.1
ISP A CO router - 1.1.1.2
ISP A Backbone - 1.1.1.5
ISP A Backbone - 1.1.1.6
ISP A & B Handoff - 3.1.1.1
ISP B Backbone - 1.1.1.8
ISP B Backbone - 1.1.1.7
ISP B CO router - 2.2.2.2
Far end router WAN side (internet side) - 2.2.2.1
Far end router LAN side - 10.10.10.1
Far end host computer 10.10.10.100




Now, for comparisons sake, say there is a VPN tunnel established between YOUR router at 1.1.1.1 and the far end at 2.2.21, the trace would look like this:


DSL Router LAN side - 192.168.1.1
DSL Router VPN Tunnel Endpoint - 1.1.1.1
Far end router VPN Tunnel Endpoint - 2.2.2.1
Far end router LAN side - 10.10.10.1
Far end host computer 10.10.10.100



The intermediate hops are STILL THERE, you just don't see them because the traffic is encapsulated within the VPN tunnel.
 

Sturmangriff

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
229
Thanks for the knowledge and taking time to respond guys. I learned a lot of new things today and have some stuff to read up on now. /cheers
 

flashoverride

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
496
Strum,

Anything in the following ranges is APIPA and isn't publicly routable:

10.x.x.x/8
172.16.x.x/16
192.168.x.x

If you hit any of those ranges, you're still in the ISP's network. See RFC1918.
 

Cmustang87

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
4,498
flashoverride,

You are incorrect on the APIPA topic. APIPA is 169.254.0.0/16. You are conflating Private Addresses and Automatic Private Addressing.
 

Red Squirrel

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
9,211
What is your home setup, does the ISP give you a modem/router you must use? You probably have a double NAT, not much you can do if you HAVE to use their modem/router. (with fibre service it handles the TV too)

If they are actually assigning local range IPs then that totally sucks of them. Good luck doing anything like games or torrents.
 

flashoverride

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
496
flashoverride,

You are incorrect on the APIPA topic. APIPA is 169.254.0.0/16. You are conflating Private Addresses and Automatic Private Addressing.

DOH! You are correct, I had my acronyms all screwed up. Still, those ranges won't be publicly routable.
 

Sturmangriff

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
229
What is your home setup, does the ISP give you a modem/router you must use? You probably have a double NAT, not much you can do if you HAVE to use their modem/router. (with fibre service it handles the TV too)

If they are actually assigning local range IPs then that totally sucks of them. Good luck doing anything like games or torrents.


I have a Motorola SBG 6580 modem/router which came from the isp connected to the nearest pc. It also runs to a TP Link 8 port gigabit switch which has 2 pc's and the main DirectTV receiver connected to it. Wireless on the 6580 has Android and Apple phones, Android and 2 Apple Tablets, and a laptop connected.

I don't believe I have to use this exact modem. I found this on their website last night.

Note: Any make or model of cable modem missing from this list will not work with Cable ONE high speed internet service.

Cable ONE recommends obtaining a DOCSIS 3 modem, since these modems incorporate the latest cable technology and have a longer expected lifetime. Some packages may require a DOCSIS 3 modem to get the full speeds provided by those packages. An older modem using DOCSIS 2 will still be compatible with these packages but will not be able to get the full speeds.

Newest Models (DOCSIS 3)

Telephone/Internet Modems*

Arris TM722G Telephone Modem

Arris TM802G Telephone Modem

Arris TM822G Telephone Modem

Arris TG852G Telephone Modem (wireless)

Arris TG862G Telephone Modem (wireless)


Internet-only Modems

Motorola SURFboard SB6120

Motorola SURFboard SB6121

Motorola SURFboard SB6141

Motorola SURFboard SB6180

Motorola SURFboard SBG6580 (wireless)

Motorola SURFboard SBG6782 (wireless)*

Zoom 5341

Zoom 5341J

Zoom 5350 (wireless)*

Zoom 5352 (wireless)*

Notes*: While the Zoom 5350/5352 and Motorola SBG6782 will work on the Cable ONE network and will provide wireless internet, Cable ONE cannot provide direct support for the wireless and networking functionality of this modem.

The Motorola SBG6782 has the MoCA connection enabled by default also not supported. If MoCA is wanting to be used, it will require a POE filter installed otherwise it will need to be disabled for security purposes.


I would put nothing past CableOne with regards to them doing something sucky or incompetent. I would have already switched if the other game in town wasn't Windstream.
 

Cmustang87

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
4,498
Sturm, I would recommend you request them to send you a Motorola SURFboard SB6180, and put your own router behind that. This will eliminate double NATing, and can alleviate any future issues you may have with port forwarding.

Sometimes ISPs use custom firmware that blocks out port forwarding and advanced features. I'm not familiar with CableOne, but something work looking into. Your other option would be to ask them if you can purchase your own SB6180 and have them connect to it and get you online. In this sense you would have public IP (WAN) on your router, and then your internal 10.x.x.x/172.16.x.x/192.168.x.x network behind it.
 

Suprfire

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
2,116
afaik the SB6180 and SB 6580 are exactly the same modem-wise, just that the SB6580 also has a gateway built in. With that said, once you purchase your own Router, you can just Bridge-Mode the SB6580 (you can do that from the web interface) and it will perform exactly like its SB6180 counterpart.
 

Cmustang87

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
4,498
The reason I recommended just getting a modem is that some ISPs prevent you from changing into bridge mode. The tech support won't even help you, and even if they do...it can take hours of getting several people.
 

devman

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Messages
2,400
If your first hop is 10.100.x.x, then that is your default gateway if you're pinging out to the internet or using tracert outside of your LAN. Do an IP config /all and paste it here to verify.

Tracert over a VPN isn't going to troubleshoot your issue at home on your LAN not on the VPN. They are 2 seperate networks.

EDIT: Yes what above poster has said. It seems they have a Modem/Gateway combination and you are double NATted behind that.

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/networking/fixing_double_nat.htm

Strum,

Anything in the following ranges is APIPA and isn't publicly routable:

10.x.x.x/8
172.16.x.x/16
192.168.x.x

If you hit any of those ranges, you're still in the ISP's network. See RFC1918.

Carrier Grade NAT is supposed to be deployed in 100.64.0.0/10 as per RFC 6598. If your WAN side is being assigned an RFC 1918 address, your ISP is doing it wrong from my understanding. Otherwise, if this is a simple double-NAT case due to two gateways being present on premises, removing one of them (or converting the outer one to bridging mode) should solve the problem.
 

Sturmangriff

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
229
The used 6180's look pretty reasonable on Amazon and I still have a router laying around doing nothing. I think I'll pick one of those up if I can't figure out bridge mode on the 6580. Thanks for the input and suggestions guys.
 

plupien79

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
238
go for the 6141... then you don't have to worry about bridge mode ETC.

You can get them under $50 on eBay. and just plug it right into your router, multiple gateways are a pain.
 
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