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Question about CRT tubes...

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Operaghost

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
1,315
I'm gonna buy a refurbished 21" CRT. I've read over numerous threads about whats the best, whats the highest res/refresh, and all that jazz.

My question is this. What is the best tube to get for gaming?
I see all these different types when I read the features of different monitors:
SuperBright
Trinitron Natural Flat Tube
Super Fine Pitch™ FD Trinitron Tube
Multisync
Diamondtron

It seems to go on and on and is very confusing to me. I'm pretty adamant about gettin a Sony or Mitsu/NEC monitor...but it doesn't have to be branded as such. Like I know Dell and Sun are also Sony tubes. Basically I wanna spend no more than $300 for a refurb. CRT and I want the best tube possible that can run 1600x1200 at atleast 85hz safely. So please give me some clarification on what I wanna get.

Monitors I've looked at are the following:
Dell P1130
NEC FE1250+
COMPAQ P1210
 
Basically there are two types: Trinitron and shadowmask.

In short, Trinitron has 1, 2 or more visible wires along the entire display, while SM doesn't. The only 'disadvantages' SM has compared with Trinitron is that these displays are not as flat, and they're not as bright. You're unlikely to notice the first point, though, and anyone running a CRT at near 100% brightness probably is legally blind. The two SM monitors I use with my main system are set to 30% brightness, for example.

So in the end, more important than the type of tube are variables like dot-pitch, supported resolutions/refreshrates, etc., and whether you can stand those black lines running along the length and height of the display or not.
 
I want .24 dot pitch, I wanna run 1600x1200 @ or around 85 hz. I don't think the horizontal lines will bother me as I'm pretty sure every monitor I've used until now has them and it doesn't bother me.
But from what I've read you are refrencing aperture grill to shadow mask. Yet Trinitron isn't the only aperture grill tube is it? And there are different versions of thier Trinitron aperture grills right? This is all so confusing.
 
Operaghost said:
I want .24 dot pitch, I wanna run 1600x1200 @ or around 85 hz. I don't think the horizontal lines will bother me as I'm pretty sure every monitor I've used until now has them and it doesn't bother me.
But from what I've read you are refrencing aperture grill to shadow mask. Yet Trinitron isn't the only aperture grill tube is it? And there are different versions of thier Trinitron aperture grills right? This is all so confusing.
Click to expand...
Trinitrons are aperture grills, yes. I've no idea whether there are any significant variations on its design, but even if there are any, it probably doesn't matter as the IQ is fairly consistent among CRTs (unlike LCDs).

Don't forget to read some reviews of the monitors you're choosing from before selecting one :)
 
There are actually three types of CRT's: shadow mask, aperture grille and slot mask.

They all do the same thing in different ways. The electron gun or guns shoot electrons to the phospor on the screen, which generates the light you see. The shadow mask method uses a metal sheet with tiny holes to make each pixel, where as the aperture grille uses tiny vertical wires arranged in a mask formation to do it. A slot mask tries to combine the two using elipse shaped holes in a shadow mask.

Traditionally Aperture Grille monitors will give better brightness and more accurate color, with a truly flat screen and a distortion free image. I've got a Mitsubishi Diamondtron(aperture grille) monitor and a Sony Trinitron (aperture grille) and they're both great. The Diamondtron is brand new so its much better but both are excellent monitors for gaming, design or just about anything else.
 
Operaghost said:
I'm gonna buy a refurbished 21" CRT. I've read over numerous threads about whats the best, whats the highest res/refresh, and all that jazz.

My question is this. What is the best tube to get for gaming?
I see all these different types when I read the features of different monitors:
SuperBright
Trinitron Natural Flat Tube
Super Fine Pitch™ FD Trinitron Tube
Multisync
Diamondtron
Click to expand...
Of these, multisync is the most important. A fixed frequency monitor won't work with any normal video card. Well, it can, but it's a mess, and not one you want to deal with. Plus, fixed frequency monitors haven't been made in years, and any that you do find will be old, tired, and dirt cheap.
Don't worry about the "superbright" feature. Superbright = extra eye strain, unless you're in a reall bright room. Fortunately you can turn it off.
With regards to the "super fine pitch", just ignore it and pay attention to the stripe pitch.
As for Trinitron & Diamondtron, those are just two varieties of aperture grill. Trinitron is Sony's version, and Diamondtron is the NEC/Mitsubishi version. I don't have any preference for one over the other, but both manufacturers made tubes of different grades. I say made in the past tense since Sony has basically left the business. All they carry now is the "Artisan Color Reference System" 21" Trinitron monitor for ~$1700. NEC still has a relatively full line of AG tubes available.
You may also see used/refurb/off lease shadow mask monitors available. Basically the difference is that AG tubes have slightly better color and can get a bit brighter, while SM tubes can be a little sharper for things like lines and text. Unless you're doing CAD work or graphics work, you'll probably have a hard time noticing the difference and probably won't care. Also, a good used SM CRT is a lot harder to find than a good used AG screen. Sony made *tons* of nice 21" monitors for companies like Dell, HP, IBM, Sun, SGI, etc. It's mostly the OEM versions that seem to end up available as off lease equipment, so these are much more common.
New shadow mask screens are basically junk compared to an NEC/Mitsu Diamondtron. Since thier only advantage over AG was a bit of sharpness, they were the first to fall to LCDs. AG is still valued for it's unmatched color reproduction, but SM's clarity in text and CAD applications is easily outmatched by an LCD. Hitachi and Eizo made some excellent shadow mask screens. Truely flat, sharper than any Trinitron, etc. Those are hard to find though, and locating a good one at a decent price may be difficult. A good Trinitron or Diamondtron will produce very clear text in 1600x1200, and can be pushed to higher resolutions for gaming. While they may end up a little smeared at 2048x1536, a little smearing is actually desireable in a game. You could see all you need to at 800x600, and at such a high res pixels running together a bit just gives you a nice "free AA" effect. You'll know what I mean once you see HL2 in 2048x1536 with no AA and no desire to turn it on. For gaming and general use, there's little practical difference between shadow mask and aperture grill.

Operaghost said:
Monitors I've looked at are the following:
Dell P1130
NEC FE1250+
COMPAQ P1210
Click to expand...
I don't know anything about that Compaq, but I had the other two side by side on my desk at work for 3 years. Honestly I'd want something else.
Personally I like the NEC better, as the Dell's "black" was grey compared to the FE1250+. Of course, I was using them for programming, and I have yet to see a 21-22" screen that has a useful mode over 1600x1200 for programming work. Past 1600x1200 I always have to up the font size to see what I'm doing.
The upside to the Dell is it will happily run in 2048x1536. The FE1250+ won't. Both do well in 1600x1200. I ran them at 1600x1200@85Hz for three years without a bit of trouble from either of them.

edit: If you can swing $500 or so and handle a 92.6lb screen, you might look for an HP A7217A (probably the cheapest version due to beigeness) or one of the other Sony 24" GDM-FW900 based monitors. (AFAIK there are Sony, Sun, SGI, and HP versions)
 
I agree with zandor, I think the best bet is a slightly used trinitron or equivalent, I purchased a used IBM p200, and recently discovered its wonderful 2048x1536 capabilities....can't beat it in bang-for-the-buck category. I think I spent $140ish on it a couple years ago, and its nothing short of beautiful.

Plus, as he said, trinitrons are virtually ubiquitous. Sure, they're huge and bulky (mine is almost 70lbs) but they're hard to beat for the cash. Oh, and if you live somewhere cold, they'll up the temps in your room by a good 5-6 degrees F. :cool:
 
Thanks for the in depth response Zandor, and your bit also cheeze!

I'm really leaning toward the FE1250+ if I could just find somewhere that has em with free shipping I'd be all set. Free shipping is a life saver on monitors. So I have to wait to find the one I want to save me 50 bucks. I was also looking at the IBM P260, looks like a decent screen and its a little cheaper than the FE1250+, I'm kinda steering away from the Dell P1130 since your comment about the black being grey in comparison to the FE1250+

So as I'm shopping around for the best deal, you guys have any other Refurb/Off Lease monitor sites besides the ones I've checked: Azatek, AccurateIT, and nm-select. There are some nice deals there, and I like the 6 month warranty that AccurateIT has. Thats a definate plus. Just wonderinf if you knew of any other trustworthy sites I could check.
 
Bump for a couple more responses maybe?
I'd like to hear what others think. Anyone?
 
It is truly a matter of personal preference. I like my Trinitron, some don't. I don't even see the little lines anymore, my brain must be editing them out :)
 
Operaghost said:
So as I'm shopping around for the best deal, you guys have any other Refurb/Off Lease monitor sites besides the ones I've checked: Azatek, AccurateIT, and nm-select. There are some nice deals there, and I like the 6 month warranty that AccurateIT has. Thats a definate plus. Just wonderinf if you knew of any other trustworthy sites I could check.
Click to expand...

You could have a look at www.merkortech.com. They've got some nice stuff.

Oh, I've got a couple other comments on the FE1250+. While the FE1250+ won't do 2048x1536, at least not at 75+Hz, it will hit some of those odd modes between 1600x1200 and 2048x1536. Also, it's only got one input. I don't know if you care, but I do find having dual inputs handy.
 
I have used Trinitron monitors at home, both a 21" Sony G520 and a 24" Sony GDM-FW900 and I think they look absolutely fantastic. The both easily handle 1600x1200x85hz and can go beyond if needed. The color and graphic (picture) quality is outstanding. Granted the text is not as sharp as an LCD it is still quite crisp and easy to read. To sum it up I am partial to Sony Trinitron monitors. It is an a shame they are no longer being produced, a real shame.
 
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