Question about Alienware

[LearninToBuild]

This is the inside of a $5000+ high end machine.

Why is there no liquid cooling? How would this stuff not get too hot and suffer performance issues?

 

[Climber]

Liquid cooling is generally an option you choose to do. I don't know if Alienware offers it, but why in the world would you buy an overpriced pos from a vendor for that much?

 

[elrechazao]

5 grand and stock cpu cooler rofl

what a ripoff piece of shit

 

[LearninToBuild]

Liquid cooling is generally an option you choose to do. I don't know if Alienware offers it, but why in the world would you buy an overpriced pos from a vendor for that much?

Because I've spent the better part of two months buying parts, attempting to assemble them, waiting for them to come, and just yesterday I attempted to install that monstrous goddamn Dark Knight heatsink and I "THOUGHT" (after having to dis-assemble my entire mobo to mount it) that I finally installed it right, but upon powering on my PC the 2nd time the fan stopped turning on as if it was shorting out................so I'm pretty sure i must've fried my processor so i immediately took it out and after holding down the power button long enough my BIOS screen finally appeared and i quickly powered down since no heat sink was attached.......

should've just got a ball cooler so much easier........but the point is ive spent all this time and labor trying to upgrade a $900 pc that ive spent $500 recently and im sick and tired of having to wait, worry, try to assemble it etc.

at least with Alienware its all done for you, you still get high end parts, the wiring is very clean, and if theres ever an issue the warranty would take care of it..

 

[The Donut]

$5,000 is a lot of money.

Why not buy the parts and get someone with a little more experience to assemble? Throw them $100 to do it, or more, either way it'll still be a hell of a lot cheaper than Alienware.

 

[criccio]

Its really not that hard... Plenty or resources (on this very site) to help you build.

I owned all Mac's up until a year ago, which is when I built my first PC after only being a member here for 2 months.

Never touched the inside of a PC before that.

 

[bigdogchris]

Last night at wall mart I saw a Phenom x3, 8GB of ram 640GB HDD, 24" system for cheap. Prices are dropping, even for high end, but Alienware systems are staying the same. They are a scam.

 

[Q-BZ]

Alienware has been way overpriced for years now. Pretty simple.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Because I've spent the better part of two months buying parts, attempting to assemble them, waiting for them to come, and just yesterday I attempted to install that monstrous goddamn Dark Knight heatsink and I "THOUGHT" (after having to dis-assemble my entire mobo to mount it) that I finally installed it right, but upon powering on my PC the 2nd time the fan stopped turning on as if it was shorting out................so I'm pretty sure i must've fried my processor so i immediately took it out and after holding down the power button long enough my BIOS screen finally appeared and i quickly powered down since no heat sink was attached.......

should've just got a ball cooler so much easier........but the point is ive spent all this time and labor trying to upgrade a $900 pc that ive spent $500 recently and im sick and tired of having to wait, worry, try to assemble it etc.

at least with Alienware its all done for you, you still get high end parts, the wiring is very clean, and if theres ever an issue the warranty would take care of it..

maybe this should be a lesson on how to build a system.. first off id take everything out of the case.. put it on top of a piece of cardboard so its not shorting out.. and boot up the system and check that everything is working.. then put it all back in the case making sure that there is enough room behind the motherboard that its not shorting out on the case..

but if you spend 5 grand to build a gaming system.. ya might as well just quit using computers.. bend over and let dell screw ya from behind.. because alienwares is nothing what it use to be..

 

[arr4ws]

alienware is overpriced. Buy one locally from one of your computer shop and have them assemble it.

I did it , cost way more than building it , but it was simpler for me. Check my computer in sig , cost me 2000$ with a 1 year warranty on the machine + the warranty on the part .

 

[LearninToBuild]

maybe this should be a lesson on how to build a system.. first off id take everything out of the case.. put it on top of a piece of cardboard so its not shorting out.. and boot up the system and check that everything is working.. then put it all back in the case making sure that there is enough room behind the motherboard that its not shorting out on the case..

but if you spend 5 grand to build a gaming system.. ya might as well just quit using computers.. bend over and let dell screw ya from behind.. because alienwares is nothing what it use to be..

Thanks sirmonkey.

I stripped everything from the PC, used my Artic Solution cleaners to remove and purify my CPU, then I followed all the directions very very meticulously from the Xigmatek website, I re-attached the heatsink fan only this time I faced the fan a different direction so I'd have easier access to my ATX pin.

I also made sure to apply the thermal grease supplied with the Dark Knight exactly as listed and exactly the way they said to, and once I got everything in, I'm happy to report I'm typing on the system now and both my CPU temps are 27 to 33ish on Everest! The lowest I've ever seen 'em, I also played 10 minutes of WoW without locking up like on my old PC.

Here's a picture of my heatsink fan installed: http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4831/photoeuv.jpg

Why do you think I shorted the power for the fan the first time, is it because i didnt use the thermal grease and the CPU shut down to protect itself or something? I only put a tiny tiny speckle of OCZ freeze. Also i might not have installed the HSF 100% correctly, this time i plugged the rubber screws into the exact same fin or fend on both sides,and so far so good, i'm so scared to power down though and thinking it might not start up.

 

[mstersmith1]

If it uses those retarded push pins then it probably popped off and was not making any contact with the CPU. I went cheap on wifes Q6600 and had to replace the stock one with a Zalmann because it actually uses screws to mount it.

 

[IsaacMM]

Do you need to use something special to place the motherboard on? I don't have any of my boxes anymore =/. My rig was not built by myself and this topic made me want to mess around a little bit

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Well that isn't exactly going to get hot...

The 2 cards are dual slot and vent the heat out the back, they're dynamically cooled anyway so the fans spin up to whatever they need to keep the card at an acceptable temp. The CPU has active cooling, and theres some case fans in there with decent cable management to keep it all cool.

I don't really see the problem here, it probably runs warm but certainly shouldn't have any temperature problems unless that CPU is massively overclocked, in which case a better CPU cooler would do it anyway, theres no NEED for watercooling here.

 

[MetalX]

Well that isn't exactly going to get hot...

The 2 cards are dual slot and vent the heat out the back, they're dynamically cooled anyway so the fans spin up to whatever they need to keep the card at an acceptable temp. The CPU has active cooling, and theres some case fans in there with decent cable management to keep it all cool.

I don't really see the problem here, it probably runs warm but certainly shouldn't have any temperature problems unless that CPU is massively overclocked, in which case a better CPU cooler would do it anyway, theres no NEED for watercooling here.

He's saying for $5k it SHOULD have wc'ing.

 

[KayossZero]

He's saying for $5k it SHOULD have wc'ing.

Hell, for 5K it should have the next step (or two/three steps) above water cooling.

 

[Yossarian22]

Because I've spent the better part of two months buying parts, attempting to assemble them, waiting for them to come, and just yesterday I attempted to install that monstrous goddamn Dark Knight heatsink and I "THOUGHT" (after having to dis-assemble my entire mobo to mount it) that I finally installed it right
should've just got a ball cooler so much easier

Three words: Bolt Thru kit.

I assume you're talking about an LGA 775\1366 style chip and board. I just learned how to mount the stock heatsinks with that wacky plastic pin retention mechanism last night and I've been working with computers for...well, a long time , so don't feel too bad.

The trick to mounting it is having good lighting and a way to look at the backplane of the motherboard (e.g: holding it on your hands\lap, carefully) and to get first the clear plastic pins in, they will expand, then get the inner-black pin in to lock it. If all four sides aren't locked, your HSF unit will be lopsided and won't make total contact with the motherboard. That means high temps, random reboots due to overheating, etc...

Regardless, I bought an Alienware about 6 or 7 years ago (Pentium 4 "Northwood", Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb, some shitty motherboard with 4x AGP slot not 8x... 120gb 7200rpm, chieftec case, 1024MB RDRAM, basically back when PC Gamer was "cool") and Iooking back, I didn't get much value for my money considering I had the skills already to research parts and assemble a decent machine for much less. On the other hand, that machine did last a very long time and I have fond memories of it.

You can still build your own and get top-of-the-line. That machine doesn't need watercooling because it's in a good case with good exaust and intake design. It'll get pretty warm in there, but nothing too serious.

 

[LearninToBuild]

Three words: Bolt Thru kit.

I assume you're talking about an LGA 775\1366 style chip and board. I just learned how to mount the stock heatsinks with that wacky plastic pin retention mechanism last night and I've been working with computers for...well, a long time , so don't feel too bad.

The trick to mounting it is having good lighting and a way to look at the backplane of the motherboard (e.g: holding it on your hands\lap, carefully) and to get first the clear plastic pins in, they will expand, then get the inner-black pin in to lock it. If all four sides aren't locked, your HSF unit will be lopsided and won't make total contact with the motherboard. That means high temps, random reboots due to overheating, etc...

Regardless, I bought an Alienware about 6 or 7 years ago (Pentium 4 "Northwood", Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb, some shitty motherboard with 4x AGP slot not 8x... 120gb 7200rpm, chieftec case, 1024MB RDRAM, basically back when PC Gamer was "cool") and Iooking back, I didn't get much value for my money considering I had the skills already to research parts and assemble a decent machine for much less. On the other hand, that machine did last a very long time and I have fond memories of it.

You can still build your own and get top-of-the-line. That machine doesn't need watercooling because it's in a good case with good exaust and intake design. It'll get pretty warm in there, but nothing too serious.

Thanks for your reply.

I just took a look at Alienwares ALX58 system, the one that has a base price of $3599 before being further customized, and honestly, it wasn't "that" overpriced.

I compared to Newegg with everything that was in the system, some stuff you have to approximate the cost like, you don't really know how much it cost them to do what they call 'high performance liquid cooling', etc, but overall I found the market average of the parts in the ALX58 about $2250 out the door.

Now they are asking $3600 for what I could probably build for $2250, but I don't feel it's "that" much of a ripoff. Considering they do the building, cable management, liquid cooling (NOT easy) etc, they provide the phone support, warranty etc, I don't think it's an insane ripoff. I think the ripoffs start coming when you 'customize' and pay $300 for more this or that and they get you there. Some gamers act like just because they can do it themselves they shouldn't have to foot labor, time is money, you may know how to build a car but that doesn't mean you shouldn't pay for labor and convenience. The 'ripoff' stuff is completely overstated, Alienwares top of line system seems faster than most of the rigs I see in the sigs here.

 

[Adamseye]

Alienwares top of line system seems faster than most of the rigs I see in the sigs here.

Wow, can you say good afternoon oh, Master Noob?

Rather then bragging about Alienware setups, why don't you just tell everyone that you are not a system builder, and would rather not take on the task.

You ask for the real difference, people told you its a ripoff when you can build it yourself for thousands less. You cried warranty, all my parts come with one, hell some are lifetime.

That's why Alienware is still around, people like yourself not up to the challenge and reward of building something, and calling it your own.

Take the easy way out, and get your $3000 dollar ripoff. Just remember, if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. "Or be a noob and call Alienware"

 

[criccio]

Wow, can you say good afternoon oh, Master Noob?

Rather then bragging about Alienware setups, why don't you just tell everyone that you are not a system builder, and would rather not take on the task.

You ask for the real difference, people told you its a ripoff when you can build it yourself for thousands less. You cried warranty, all my parts come with one, hell some are lifetime.

That's why Alienware is still around, people like yourself not up to the challenge and reward of building something, and calling it your own.

Take the easy way out, and get your $3000 dollar ripoff. Just remember, if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. "Or be a noob and call Alienware"

QFT... even if it was a bit harsh.

OP, we all here know what we are talking about. Alienware is a ripoff.

/thread

 

[LearninToBuild]

I wasn't bragging, but looking at the $3599 setup, the processor alone is faster than 95% of what I see posted here. I don't have it, so how am I bragging? I'm just acknowledging that they are using top of the line parts that are not practical for most, myself probably included.

And how am I paying $3000 more for a system that sells for $3599? Unless they're charging $3000 for labor and the rest for the processor with everything else costing 0, the actual profit for labor and the Alienware name is actually closer to $1300. That's really not unreasonable, it's a business, why the fuck would they sell the market value of components? There's some odd resentment PC builders here have that Alienware attempts to make money, of course they do, but that doesn't mean their systems are junk and only appreciated by "noobs".

Wow, can you say good afternoon oh, Master Noob?

Rather then bragging about Alienware setups, why don't you just tell everyone that you are not a system builder, and would rather not take on the task.

You ask for the real difference, people told you its a ripoff when you can build it yourself for thousands less. You cried warranty, all my parts come with one, hell some are lifetime.

That's why Alienware is still around, people like yourself not up to the challenge and reward of building something, and calling it your own.

Take the easy way out, and get your $3000 dollar ripoff. Just remember, if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. "Or be a noob and call Alienware"

 

[criccio]

I wasn't bragging, but looking at the $3599 setup, the processor alone is faster than 95% of what I see posted here. I don't have it, so how am I bragging? I'm just acknowledging that they are using top of the line parts that are not practical for most, myself probably included.

And how am I paying $3000 more for a system that sells for $3599? Unless they're charging $3000 for labor and the rest for the processor with everything else costing 0, the actual profit for labor and the Alienware name is actually closer to $1300. That's really not unreasonable, it's a business, why the fuck would they sell the market value of components? There's some odd resentment PC builders here have that Alienware attempts to make money, of course they do, but that doesn't mean their systems are junk and only appreciated by "noobs".

I just put together a system with identical internal components on Newegg for $2500....

And smart people wouldn't spend $500 on an i7 950 when you can get a 920 and OC it to 3.8Ghz easy on air.

 

[LearninToBuild]

I just put together a system with identical internal components on Newegg for $2500....

And smart people wouldn't spend $500 on an i7 950 when you can get a 920 and OC it to 3.8Ghz easy on air.

Cheers for that, I definitely acknowledge there is real money to be saved doing it yourself, but it's like anything else, buying a car etc, you're not only paying for the components but the labor, brand, warranty and all that jazz. So all together I don't think paying an extra $1000-$1500 for a high-end system is insane, I'm curious why there's so much Alienware hate. The only reason they may charge even more than other gaming PC outlets is they're more successful, again how can you blame them? So long as the product is assembled well and high end parts are used, I think paying a premium for stability is fair, just like you see with Apple computers.

 

[Adamseye]

I wasn't bragging, but looking at the $3599 setup, the processor alone is faster than 95% of what I see posted here. I don't have it, so how am I bragging? I'm just acknowledging that they are using top of the line parts that are not practical for most, myself probably included.

And how am I paying $3000 more for a system that sells for $3599? Unless they're charging $3000 for labor and the rest for the processor with everything else costing 0, the actual profit for labor and the Alienware name is actually closer to $1300. That's really not unreasonable, it's a business, why the fuck would they sell the market value of components? There's some odd resentment PC builders here have that Alienware attempts to make money, of course they do, but that doesn't mean their systems are junk and only appreciated by "noobs".

Ok I just browsed Alienwares site. They Charge $700 to overclock the i7, thats it just overclock, same cooling. This I think is the machine your talking about.

Maybe it's because I can build a system, or maybe it's because I take pride in my work, or this could just be my adult lego set, but $700 to OC a cpu.

That pretty much settles it there, $700 to OC your cpu. Now if you are a noob, (non offensive way) and can't do that, it is worth it unless you have a buddy who can help you.

 

[knothead34]

1500 markup is a bit of markup dont you think? thats insane markup in my opinion. if it was profit lets say couple hundred dollars each machine built ok but 1500? no thanks. apple is the same way ...they markup there hardware so much .....you can buy the same or better for less money. im sure you could build a water cooling rig with nice parts and still spend less then 5k. so you dont get a case like alienware who cares.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

But, but... that glowing alien head on the laptop lid is so cool!!!

 

[LearninToBuild]

Ok I just browsed Alienwares site. They Charge $700 to overclock the i7, thats it just overclock, same cooling. This I think is the machine your talking about.

Maybe it's because I can build a system, or maybe it's because I take pride in my work, or this could just be my adult lego set, but $700 to OC a cpu.

That pretty much settles it there, $700 to OC your cpu. Now if you are a noob, (non offensive way) and can't do that, it is worth it unless you have a buddy who can help you.

Fair enough, like I said if you start customizing they really pull your pants down and start milking the profit, but what about the base configuration for that ALX58?

Processor:
Intel® Core™ i7-950 3.06 GHz 8MB Cache

That right there I see at $550 on newegg.

The case they use would probably be around $160 given the dimensions and features. So already we are talking $800 before getting into the high end vid card, the $150-$200 motherboard etc, I tabulated it all with shipping and got $2250 on newegg.

So I don't think they're getting over with anyone on that base setup, but that is just my uneducated opinion making an educated guess. And IMO from what I've read that system is pretty sick is it not? Only question mark to me is how extensive their 'high performance' liquid cooling configuration is, which they'd offer pics.

 

[Yossarian22]

Fair enough, like I said if you start customizing they really pull your pants down and start milking the profit, but what about the base configuration for that ALX58?

...I tabulated it all with shipping and got $2250 on newegg.

Alright, some math:
$3599 OEM Built
$2250 DIY

the difference between the prices is $1349 and $1349 / $3599 is .3748...
$1349 is approximately 37.5% of $3599.

Assuming I made no error, why is there a markup of 37.5% on the product? Your question is a good one, why no extra fancy stuff? No water cooling for almost 40% markup? What exactly is it that you're getting for such a premium besides the fact that you don't have to build it yourself? There is brand prestige, it exists: Harley Davidson, Gibson Guitars, etc..., but I don't know anyone who thinks Alienware is automatically "awesome". Warranties? Free shipping? Oral sex? I don't know, I suppose it depends on who you are. My personal opinion is computer technology (desktop) isn't that complicated to understand and actually is quite fun. I know people who think different and can barely navigate Windows Vista.

Some guys do cars, guns, yachts, but my computers haven't killed anyone (yet) nor do they have any risk of running aground.

 

[Yossarian22]

im sure you could build a water cooling rig with nice parts and still spend less then 5k. so you dont get a case like alienware who cares.

The cases are horrid anyway. People who like them are the same people think the Killer NIC is worth it and anything labeled Fata1ty is holy. I like the old Chieftec cases they used to use. Classy. Currently am enjoying an Antec 300, although a bit crappy (personally, myself) at wire management. Maybe next purchase is a modular PSU?

 

[criccio]

I don't know if "brand prestige" plays a role here. motorcycle and guitar enthusiasts know and love Harley and Gibson, but PC enthusiasts don't like Alienware. If they did, they wouldn't be a real PC enthusiast... Not trying to be at all demeaning here, but when you spend enough time with PC's and PC hardware as a hobby (enthusiast), you realize how much money you are wasting by paying for a pre-built system.

Warranties and service plans mean nothing to you because if there is a problem, you have the experience to fix it yourself, or know where to go to get help. (places like this with other PC enthusiasts) You don't need to rely on a company to fix it for you.

 

[Shlomo]

hmm... I can OC a i7 920 to perform better than the i7 950... for about 20 dollars for a Sunbeam Core-Contact cooler.

Or you can pay me 700 dollars and i'll do it the Alienware way

 

[knothead34]

not to mention for 5grand you can put a nice down payment on a freaking car!!

 

[Yossarian22]

I don't know if "brand prestige" plays a role here. motorcycle and guitar enthusiasts know and love Harley and Gibson, but PC enthusiasts don't like Alienware. If they did, they wouldn't be a real PC enthusiast... Not trying to be at all demeaning here, but when you spend enough time with PC's and PC hardware as a hobby (enthusiast), you realize how much money you are wasting by paying for a pre-built system.

Warranties and service plans mean nothing to you because if there is a problem, you have the experience to fix it yourself, or know where to go to get help. (places like this with other PC enthusiasts) You don't need to rely on a company to fix it for you.

I know, I was questioning, rhetorically perhaps, is it really worth a near 40% price markup to have it done by somebody else? I don't think it is. For 5k I'd rather work towards a car or pay off some college debt or something.


P.S: I love my Gibson, even though it's the cheapest model, perfect neck makes me a happy guy.

 

[LearninToBuild]

I know, I was questioning, rhetorically perhaps, is it really worth a near 40% price markup to have it done by somebody else?

There's just something about this line of thinking that really irks me. Could you repair a transmission yourself? Could you paint your entire house? Could you tile your own floors? Assume the answer is "YES" to those questions, now further assume that although you knew how to do all of those things, and could save considerable penny doing it yourself, would it really be such a disservice and a ripoff to have it done professionally by a reputable company? I mean, there's this overwhelming lull of posters here who just cringe at buying PC's just because they have the knowledge of building them, I don't understand it, it's like some weird movement. I know how to do my laundry, guess what, I pay to have it done, because of convenience and not having to worry about getting it done.

 

[criccio]

You seem to fail to realize that we build PC's because we want to. We are enthusiasts not consumers... Your entire argument is based on you (and the assumption that we) are consumers.

....and with that your argument dies...

Maybe you are better off in the Consumer Reports forums...

 

[Greggy_D]

the actual profit for labor and the Alienware name is actually closer to $1300. That's really not unreasonable

Yes it is.

 

[elrechazao]

There's just something about this line of thinking that really irks me. Could you repair a transmission yourself? Could you paint your entire house? Could you tile your own floors? Assume the answer is "YES" to those questions, now further assume that although you knew how to do all of those things, and could save considerable penny doing it yourself, would it really be such a disservice and a ripoff to have it done professionally by a reputable company? I mean, there's this overwhelming lull of posters here who just cringe at buying PC's just because they have the knowledge of building them, I don't understand it, it's like some weird movement. I know how to do my laundry, guess what, I pay to have it done, because of convenience and not having to worry about getting it done.

That's nice. now imagine that one painter will paint your house for a 50% premium over buying the paint yourself, but there are 10 other painters who will do it for only a 20% markup.

Or one autoshop in town has a cool name, lots of stickers and cool paintings on the walls, and all of their mechanics wear tuxedos. They charge parts plus 900 dollars an hour to fix your car. The 5 other shops in town charge parts plus 90 dollars per hour.

See the pattern? Nothing wrong with paying for convenience, but convenience without any benefit to an obscene markup is different.

if you want convenience, go to 20 other places before alienware.

 

[Yossarian22]

There's just something about this line of thinking that really irks me. Could you repair a transmission yourself? Could you paint your entire house? Could you tile your own floors? Assume the answer is "YES" to those questions, now further assume that although you knew how to do all of those things, and could save considerable penny doing it yourself

If I was a mechanic, handyman, yes... but I am a computer scientist (still in training). So it just sort of goes hand in hand.

would it really be such a disservice and a ripoff to have it done professionally

Depends on if I have more time or money.

by a reputable company?

Subjective. I'm betting everyone who replied to this thread do not think the word "professional" when Alienware comes to mind. It's a given "professional" companies are always getting over on you, somehow, some way... Mechanic shops are always dodgy, for example. Send your car in to get something fixed it comes back with something else broken (this is my personal experience). If you changed Alienware to Falcon Northwest, might change my mind... maybe.

I mean, there's this overwhelming lull of posters here who just cringe at buying PC's just because they have the knowledge of building them, I don't understand it, it's like some weird movement. I know how to do my laundry, guess what, I pay to have it done, because of convenience and not having to worry about getting it done.

Well, enthusiast is also codeword for "hobbyist" and "cheapskate". It's a two-point win for people like us. What? We get to do something we enjoy (assemble a computer) and save money? Who doesn't like enjoying themselves AND saving money? If I was Donald Trump, I probably wouldn't build any computers, however.

The difference is you see building machines difficult and as chore (maybe you're inept at it) as where I would willingly assemble a machine because it's very entertaining to me.

 

[myndcrime]

if you don't know how to build a computer, I'd just suggest finding a friend who does, and seeing if they will help you order the parts and put it together. You'll save money AND learn a little something.

And then give them some cash for helping out.

 

[Alai]

There's just something about this line of thinking that really irks me. Could you repair a transmission yourself? Could you paint your entire house? Could you tile your own floors? Assume the answer is "YES" to those questions, now further assume that although you knew how to do all of those things, and could save considerable penny doing it yourself, would it really be such a disservice and a ripoff to have it done professionally by a reputable company? I mean, there's this overwhelming lull of posters here who just cringe at buying PC's just because they have the knowledge of building them, I don't understand it, it's like some weird movement. I know how to do my laundry, guess what, I pay to have it done, because of convenience and not having to worry about getting it done.

Why are you arguing about the virtues of companies that charge for building computers to computer-building enthusiasts? That's like arguing the virtues of universal healthcare or bans on guns to Republicans.