Question about a ESP Digital QC D5143NT Surge Suppressor

dar124

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jan 21, 2012
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So I came across a "ESP Digital QC D5143NT Surge Suppressor" and was thinking about using it with my home server. I currently have a regular power strip / surge protector in use with my home server, but was wondering if this would be better to use?? I would think that the fact that it's a "surge suppressor" instead of the "surge protector" that I'm currently using would make it better / give me a better level of protection, but figured I'd get some [H] opinions.

Thanks for any input.
 

westom

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Mar 14, 2015
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I would think that the fact that it's a "surge suppressor" instead of the "surge protector" that I'm currently using would make it better / give me a better level of protection, but figured I'd get some [H] opinions..
Term is subjective. Basically, surge protector, surge suppressor, TVSS, arrestor, etc describe same. Only specification numbers define a difference.

For example, how many joules does an existing protector claim to absorb? If adjacent to a server, it must either block or absorb surges. Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that existing protector claim to absorb? Hundreds? A thousand? Near zero.

A surge too tiny to overwhelm protection already inside a server can destroy that undersized protector. Catastrophic (unacceptable) failure gets to naïve to recommend more near zero protectors.

Same with a UPS. How many joules does it claim to absorb? Hundreds? They can promote a near zero protector as 100% protection - when the claim is subjective.

Your server and existing protector both need a 'whole house' solution. No protector (not even a 'whole house' protector) does protection. Protectors are only connecting devices to what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground. Only the 'whole house' solution does that.

Effective earth ground means a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. A UPS has no such connection and will not discuss it.

Perspective is provided by specification numbers. A protector (even to even protect your existing protector) is only as effective as its earth ground. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate?
 

Mopower

Gawd
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The reason I suggested a UPS is that a UPS will keep the server running and protect it from brownouts and other dips and spikes in voltage. Of course a direct lightning hit will probably damage the UPS but those are rather rare. Spikes and dips and outages that last for a second are much more common and a UPS will protect the server from most of those.
 

dar124

[H]ard|Gawd
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It should be on a UPS. Not just a fancy surge suppressor.

Term is subjective. Basically, surge protector, surge suppressor, TVSS, arrestor, etc describe same. Only specification numbers define a difference.


Yea, I just wanted to make sure that that's all this "ESP Digital QC D5143NT Surge Suppressor" was ... just a fancy surge suppressor. I wanted to make sure that I knew exactly what it was before I passed it on or got rid of it.

Thanks for the responses!!!
 

westom

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Mar 14, 2015
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The reason I suggested a UPS is that a UPS will keep the server running and protect it from brownouts and other dips and spikes in voltage. Of course a direct lightning hit will probably damage the UPS but those are rather rare.
Brownouts and other dips do not cause hardware damage. Larger spikes come from a UPS in battery backup mode. For example this 120 volt UPS outputs 200 volts square waves and a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to superior protection already inside all appliances, even this 'dirty' power is sufficient.

UPS is for protection of unsaved data; not hardware protection. Concern is for an anomaly that can damage hardware. Lightning is one example.

Yes, destructive surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. If a server needs protection, then everything needs protection. Informed consumers spend tens or 100 times less money for a 'whole house' protector. Costs about $1 per protected appliance. Then protection exists for the rare and destructive anomaly.

Brownouts, sags, and noise (what was called spikes) causes no damage to appliances. A rare and destructive anomaly is averted by earthing a 'whole house' solution - for so many times less money.
 

rma

Limp Gawd
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The reason I suggested a UPS is that a UPS will keep the server running and protect it from brownouts and other dips and spikes in voltage. Of course a direct lightning hit will probably damage the UPS but those are rather rare. Spikes and dips and outages that last for a second are much more common and a UPS will protect the server from most of those.

A direct lightning will kill everything, no UPS will protect you.

the only way to do is to isolate everything in the room, and then make sure that the lightning will travel into the ground by mounting a ground ring at the entrance to the system.

i have 3 setups with this kind of system, the systems are located in metal containers and every wire going in or out is fiber or isolated with isolation transformers.

the main power is setup with a ground gap to make the lightning go towards the ground.

we have isolations transformers delivering the main power inside.
 

westom

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the only way to do is to isolate everything in the room, and then make sure that the lightning will travel into the ground by mounting a ground ring at the entrance to the system.
That means no AC electric connection. No signal wires. No heat duct or pipes in the room. Isolation from surges is impossible. Since even wood, concrete, and linoleum tile are electrical conductors.

Telcos all over the world and for over 100 years use a proven 'whole house' solution. It does for appliances what a lightning rod does for structures.

Telco CO will suffer about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for 4 days while they replace that surge damaged computer? Never? They do not isolate. Each surge is connected low impedance to single point earth ground BEFORE entering the building. Then direct lightning strikes and other equivalent surges do not cause damage.

Increased separation between protector and electronics increases protection. That separation increases impedance. But highest impedance (ie isolation) cannot be achieved. Separation ( increasedm isolation) can improve the effectiveness of a protection system. But most all attention must focus on the only solution that must always exist. An electrical connection from cloud to distant earthborne charges must be on a path that stays outside a building, that is low impedance, and that connects to a single point earth ground. Only then are the two primary objectives (equipotential and conductivity) achieved.

A surge may blow through isolation transformers. What makes transformers effective? Again, earth ground. If that low impedance earthing connection is missing, then transformers become short circuits. A picture demonstrates why an isolation transformers might connected 4000 or 33,000 volts directly into the nearby building. This picture demonstrates what is the homeowner's 'primary' layer of protection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

A 'whole house' solution is a 'secondary' protection layer. Each protection layer is only as effective as its earth ground. Then direct lightning strikes cause no damage. As demonstrated repeatedly all over the world for over 100 years.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Isolation does not answer that requirement.
 

rma

Limp Gawd
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That means no AC electric connection. No signal wires. No heat duct or pipes in the room. Isolation from surges is impossible. Since even wood, concrete, and linoleum tile are electrical conductors.

Telcos all over the world and for over 100 years use a proven 'whole house' solution. It does for appliances what a lightning rod does for structures.

Telco CO will suffer about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for 4 days while they replace that surge damaged computer? Never? They do not isolate. Each surge is connected low impedance to single point earth ground BEFORE entering the building. Then direct lightning strikes and other equivalent surges do not cause damage.

Increased separation between protector and electronics increases protection. That separation increases impedance. But highest impedance (ie isolation) cannot be achieved. Separation ( increasedm isolation) can improve the effectiveness of a protection system. But most all attention must focus on the only solution that must always exist. An electrical connection from cloud to distant earthborne charges must be on a path that stays outside a building, that is low impedance, and that connects to a single point earth ground. Only then are the two primary objectives (equipotential and conductivity) achieved.

A surge may blow through isolation transformers. What makes transformers effective? Again, earth ground. If that low impedance earthing connection is missing, then transformers become short circuits. A picture demonstrates why an isolation transformers might connected 4000 or 33,000 volts directly into the nearby building. This picture demonstrates what is the homeowner's 'primary' layer of protection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

A 'whole house' solution is a 'secondary' protection layer. Each protection layer is only as effective as its earth ground. Then direct lightning strikes cause no damage. As demonstrated repeatedly all over the world for over 100 years.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Isolation does not answer that requirement.

Well my solution does work, we have had more than 10 direct lightning hits, this system is on a hill, by directing the lightning towards the earth points at the entrance we haven't had any problems

The metal container is connected to a 60m antenne mast :).
 

westom

n00b
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Mar 14, 2015
Messages
44
Well my solution does work, we have had more than 10 direct lightning hits, this system is on a hill, by directing the lightning towards the earth points at the entrance we haven't had any problems .
In order to know it works, you must have what science calls a 'control'. That means other damage must exist is the same path that approached and did not damage an isolated item. Otherwise the current from a nearby strike can be going in the opposite direction.

We know isolation does not stop lightning. A best electrical insulator is air. Even air conducts lightning. Protection has always been about an electrical current that does not enter a building - that flows elsewhere. If those earthborne charges are miles in another direction, then current goes away from (does not enter) the building. No damage.
 
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