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Quad Core, most PPD?

B

budec

Gawd
Joined
Jul 10, 2002
Messages
748
I'm building a computer for a family member, in exchange for my labor they are going to let me run FAH on it.

It's going to be a Quad 6600 with 4 Gigs of ram.
It has a 24x7 internet connection.
Junky GPU (can't run GPU client)

the only problem is I'm going to be 12 hours awhile from it, so if it stops working, it'll be difficult to fix.

What is the best setup with this? SMP client?
I heard that running dual SMP clients produces more PPD?
Is that with VMWare?
 
Dual SMP through VMWare Server is by far the best PPD. That being said, it does effect the performance of the machine. If just for normal day to day use, the computer is very useable, so that is all good. However, I have to kill one of my SMP clients if I'm gonna be gaming, or it's unplayable. I can leave the VM running though, which saves time in the end.

 
What OS do you run in the VM? Teh Linux?

2 VMs, each running teh Linux with 1 SMP Client each?


why not just run 2 SMP clients in the host OS?
(Machine ID and such?)
 
budec said:
What OS do you run in the VM? Teh Linux?

2 VMs, each running teh Linux with 1 SMP Client each?


why not just run 2 SMP clients in the host OS?
(Machine ID and such?)
Click to expand...
If the host OS is Linux, I would imagine that you can run one client in the host and one in a VM. Two Linux VMs are usually employed under a Windows host. By locking two cores per client, you are optimizing the performance of the system by alleviating some of the inefficiency inherent in the architecture.

Other more experienced users can elaborate on this.

 
1 client per VM running Xubuntu. The host OS is Vista Premium x64.

the reason I don't run 2 clients in one VM is because the SMP clients can't easily run 2 clients in one OS. I think this is now possible in Windows with Affinity Changer, at a lower PPD. However, I've never seen this being done in Linux. Anyhow, it lets me take care of problems easier. If one VM breaks, it doesn't take down both clients :)

 
Why not run Linux as a host as well? Then, won't you need just one VM?
 
Makes things easier I would guess, especially for an every day PC....run windows programs on windows, and just let the VMs run in the background. I do the same for my fileserver, even though it's only one VM....I can run everything windows I need, and enjoy the increase in production from running SMP under Linux.

 
I could understand in the case a system relies on Windows-only specialized applications. For instance, a software based OC utility. If there's no hardware method of OC a system, then you might need a Windows host to OC the machine. However, if OC is accomplished via hardware, I can see improvements in minimum hardware resource requirements by running a Linux host with one client, and only one Linux guest VM running the second client. OTOH, I may not know what I'm talking about - but would like some confirmation either way. :D
 
the performance would likely be better, at least I can see where that would come from. i guess it really depends if people are building a quad for folding only....that's probably rather rare at this price point

 
Yes, I was contemplating about a pure folding machine.

 
I would say if nothing else, it would be worth a shot. I did lose a bit of performance going from Linux to VM Linux, but it was only maybe 5% give or take, so it's hard to tell what would happen. The other thing you would lose in Linux is the ability to set the affinity on the host OS processes. The FAH client automatically sets one client per core when it starts a WU, even if the host process is set to specific processors. VMs make this really easy, because you can set the VM affinity in Windows.

Granted, there may be an Affinity Changer type prog in Linux that could do this.

 
If you are that far from it are you sure you want to use the SMP client? I know the point gain is huge but seeing as its a beta client and you can't administer it directly it might be smartest to just load a series of the regular consoles running as a service.




 
Connundrum1 said:
If you are that far from it are you sure you want to use the SMP client? I know the point gain is huge but seeing as its a beta client and you can't administer it directly it might be smartest to just load a series of the regular consoles running as a service.
Click to expand...

I'm running 18 SMP clients doing +400 WU per month.
My failure rate in less than 1 per month.
Bad work unit at 1-2 per month.

The reason for running inside VM's is 4 fold.
1. It tells Stanford the correct number of cores you have 2x2 so you only get standard SMP work units.
Running 2 outside the VM's tells Stanford that you have 2x4 cores so the risk is you get the high performance SMP work units ment to be run only on Quad and risk missing the deadlines.
2. If the client does error out you only loose 1/2 your PpD.
Running 2 in one OS the risk is you loose both.
3. Much more stable vs network drops/resets.
Running inside VM makes you independent of the outside network.
So the clients dont stop when your network resrts itself for any reason.
4. I dont know much Linux.
I run Windoze -> VM's -> Linux clients.
This way I can remote from Windoze to Windoze if I want to start/stop/reset one of the VM's.
I can also get into my samba shares inside the VM's from Windoze which makes updateing the client drag and drop, etc as all my Linux setups run INIT 3.
Just make housekeeping easier fr me.

The reasons I do this probably run 4->1 in order of importance to me.

Luck ............ :D
 
On the quad in my sig, I'm running Linux as the host and 2 VMs with Linux. Yes, this is my daily everyday use machine and it runs just fine. Each VM is allowed to use up to 768 meg of RAM leaving me with 2.5 gig of RAM to run the host OS on. The only game I've played on this rig so far is ET: Quake Wars and I have had no trouble. I don't have to shut down a folding client or a VM and everything runs smooth.

I plan on using the same setup when my other quad comes in except it only has 2 gig of RAM and will be a folding only box.

I don't know if it's something with Linux, Windows the amount of RAM I have or what, but I have no trouble running 2 VMs at the same time and doing everything I normally would. I have noticed no slowdown at all and I ran the system for about a day with just a single SMP client and no VMs so I would notice a difference if the VMs were slowing things down.

The only configuration difference that I can think of would be that I'm running 2 hard drives. OS and most software is on one while the VMs are running off the other. I tried to keep the disk access separated. I have no clue if this makes a difference or not and I doubt I will be messing around with things to see if it does.

For the OP, you'll be better off installing 4 regular clients on the machine. VMs are not a viable option in this case and the SMP client is still beta. At this point, I wouldn't even be worried about the stability of the SMP client. The fact that it's beta means it will expire. If you're not within easy reaching distance of the machine, it would be rather difficult to upgrade the client when the time comes.

Also, the 4 regular instances won't even be seen, unlike the SMP client. We all know that the SMP client doesn't really like being installed as a service so that's not really a solution. I would love to see the SMP client used, but in this case I don't think it's feasible.

 
SmokeRngs said:
For the OP, you'll be better off installing 4 regular clients on the machine. VMs are not a viable option in this case and the SMP client is still beta. At this point, I wouldn't even be worried about the stability of the SMP client. The fact that it's beta means it will expire. If you're not within easy reaching distance of the machine, it would be rather difficult to upgrade the client when the time comes.

Also, the 4 regular instances won't even be seen, unlike the SMP client. We all know that the SMP client doesn't really like being installed as a service so that's not really a solution. I would love to see the SMP client used, but in this case I don't think it's feasible.

Click to expand...


I would install four regular clients. Do not install SMP for a borged machine as you describe above. Four regular clients as a service.

That should work fine for all concerned.
 
APOLLO said:
OK, I understand, but seriously though, almost everyone here runs a Windows host, why? Is it better?
Click to expand...

Its because most people here use windows day to day. Personally, I dont see any point in it unless its either a gaming machine, or you have to use specific windows apps.
 
wouldnt the over head of running the VM software cause a lower PPD? or am i missing something?
 
MrGuvernment said:
wouldnt the over head of running the VM software cause a lower PPD? or am i missing something?
Click to expand...

The Linux client is a lot faster at processing than the Windows client. Running the Linux client in VMs on top of Windows garners you better PPD than running the Windows client. Plus the Linux client is more stable.

 
what Vm is best for this?

a few years back i was going to have f@h on some servers here, but i found it affected MySQL database performance incredibly, as if it wasnt releasing the cpu cycles, and would result in much slower performance of the DB so i didnt put it on any systems.
 
The VM software we all use is VMWare Server...it's free, easy to setup, and works pretty damn well

 
MrGuvernment said:
what Vm is best for this?

a few years back i was going to have f@h on some servers here, but i found it affected MySQL database performance incredibly, as if it wasnt releasing the cpu cycles, and would result in much slower performance of the DB so i didnt put it on any systems.
Click to expand...

SQL databases suck cycles no doubt about it. What you noticed is correct, the SMP client is a bit more reluctant to give up cycles then the traditional single client.

Since the single text clients can run properly as a service and won’t be seen and the fact that they cut back as needed I would give that a try. Start with two clients named #1 and #2 each in its own folder. Make sure you use the –local –forceasm switches in your service setup. Keep in mind that within the client you can set priority and RAM usage as well.

If all that runs fine, you can add 2 additional clients if you are using a quad, make them #3 and #4.

All that said, if you make your living on this box or if you make someone else’s living with that box I’d stick to 2. Time is money as they say.

Luck
 
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