• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Q9450

R

RussianHAXOR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
5,590
I know there are probably millions of threads about this, but... What is the supposed release date for the Q9450. I am quite literally waiting for this CPU to come out to buy my 780i as well as buy Vista Ultimate 64bit
 
intel seems pretty hellbent on releasing it as late as possible without messing up their initial Q108 target, so i'd say late march worst case, February if amd can put a little pressure on

edit: relaying some info from the "three of intel's processors delayed" thread here, but this seems to be a more probable cause: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainbo...ng_Intel_s_New_Quad_Core_Microprocessors.html , so pardon me in seeming so sure that intel is just playing marketing games, because this seems like a pretty reaosnable concern to address
 
:( Thats really sad news, because i really wanted to follow my upgrade path. Now i have to wait even longer while using the crappy system in my sig.:(

I thought it was supposed to be mid jan, not march/feb! :eek:
 
So what, buyers gamble to be left behind by this simple things when getting cheap stuff like P35.
Its the Vedors thing to fix, not Intels and no reson delay the release.
Put the time in fixing P45 instead and let P35 owners be aware of the mistake they made by getting a 4 layer PCB board that cant handle yorkfield.
 
iunno, when you think about it....965 supported conroe

p35 comes along and supports....conroe...and.."whoops that's all you get! dumbass!". decent p35 boards dont seem all that cheap either

i think its fair that a p35 buyer would expect at least 1 upgrade cycle on the same chipset. p35 also seems to be the first "modern" intel chipset to be widely adopted amongst big business (my last job was os/software solutions for purpose-oriented hardware, lots of requests coming in for p35/ich9 support, and the groups we worked with tended to upgrade their platforms fairly rarely). i think this is more the type of audience intel is trying to please....not so much the enthusiast types who dont mind buying new motherboards every few months. personally im glad they're doing this, though the wait is killing me. (OP: you think you have it bad...check my sig)
 
While this does make sense, i think its somewhat evil that magically the 680i doesnt support the 45nm processors... i wasnt too happy when that was announced.
 
fluxion said:
iunno, when you think about it....965 supported conroe

p35 comes along and supports....conroe...and.."whoops that's all you get! dumbass!". decent p35 boards dont seem all that cheap either

i think its fair that a p35 buyer would expect at least 1 upgrade cycle on the same chipset. p35 also seems to be the first "modern" intel chipset to be widely adopted amongst big business (my last job was os/software solutions for purpose-oriented hardware, lots of requests coming in for p35/ich9 support, and the groups we worked with tended to upgrade their platforms fairly rarely). i think this is more the type of audience intel is trying to please....not so much the enthusiast types who dont mind buying new motherboards every few months. personally im glad they're doing this, though the wait is killing me. (OP: you think you have it bad...check my sig)
Click to expand...
Thats where P45 comes in, not fair for people that already got X38/780i to be forced to get a QX9650 or wait way to long for the goodies just because P35 lack of some support based on the boards cheap design.
P35 still support Wolfdale so there is room for upgrade cycle just as 680i can do Wolfdale but not Yorkfield.
I am fucked already by abit for my first Q6600 B3 did not liked my 680i at all and since EVGA and DFI fixed this thing vendors of P35 can do the same thing, they just put the cost on others for their own fault.
 
RussianHAXOR said:
:( Thats really sad news, because i really wanted to follow my upgrade path. Now i have to wait even longer while using the crappy system in my sig.:(

I thought it was supposed to be mid jan, not march/feb! :eek:
Click to expand...

Did you say "crappy"? Ah, the days we live in where a 4200+ with 8800 GTS is crappy...
 
Hi Russianhaxor, I know you are the mode of evga forums. I'm also a Junior member and go by the name "geppwnd" in evga forums. I have a question for you. This other person EVGATech_EvP some how did get his hands on a sample q9550 and did some overclocking and the temps seem to be a lot lower then my qx6700 at my current oc settings (see my sig). I just want to know how well those the up coming yorkfield overclock as to kentsfield? Will OC better then kentsfield and uses less voltage? Is it worth the upgarde from my current kentsfield? yea I know it has 12mb L2 cache. Right now my cpu idles at 40c and max load with primes on all 4 cores did reach 63-65. But regular load like encoding videos or gaming goes to 48-53c

The main reason I want to get the q9550 or the q9450 because of the temps, they look at lot lower then then the 65nm quades. Now I'm still holding off the 780i board for now, since the 45nm quads are not out. I'm also disappointed about this delay becuase I only have 54 days left to do this trade (I hope the 45 quads come out before then:p). I could have get the board now but I hate to be with out a computer for more then 2 days:(
I want to do this all at once, get the 780i board and the q9450 at the same time. If I get the board now and the cpu later I will still have to rip everything apart to install the proc
 
Cyrilix said:
Did you say "crappy"? Ah, the days we live in where a 4200+ with 8800 GTS is crappy...
Click to expand...

Haha, my 8800GTS is definitely not crappy. I love this thing to death. My X2 4200+.... imho is. Why may you ask? Because i paid 330 for it and within a matter of 3 months it was selling for less than half of what i paid for it because instead of making better processors AMD likes to cut prices and release lower priced items to compete on the price/performance curve.

:D

∞Velocitymaster∞;1031834507 said:
Hi Russianhaxor, I know you are the mode of evga forums. I'm also a Junior member and go by the name "geppwnd" in evga forums. I have a question for you. This other person EVGATech_EvP some how did get his hands on a sample q9550 and did some overclocking and the temps seem to be a lot lower then my qx6700 at my current oc settings (see my sig). I just want to know how well those the up coming yorkfield overclock as to kentsfield? Will OC better then kentsfield and uses less voltage? Is it worth the upgarde from my current kentsfield? yea I know it has 12mb L2 cache. Right now my cpu idles at 40c and max load with primes on all 4 cores did reach 63-65. But regular load like encoding videos or gaming goes to 48-53c

The main reason I want to get the q9550 or the q9450 because of the temps, they look at lot lower then then the 65nm quades. Now I'm still holding off the 780i board for now, since the 45nm quads are not out. I'm also disappointed about this delay becuase I only have 54 days left to do this trade (I hope the 45 quads come out before then:p). I could have get the board now but I hate to be with out a computer for more then 2 days:(
I want to do this all at once, get the 780i board and the q9450 at the same time. If I get the board now and the cpu later I will still have to rip everything apart to install the proc
Click to expand...

Its an engineering sample, this is usually a chip that has any issues fixed and for the purposes he was using it for and on the chipset he was using, it worked great. And yes, he was overclocking it on air with a P4 cooler and got amazing benchmarks.Yorkfield will use less power, run cooler, and therefore OC better with less cooling. Imho, if you have a QX7600 you should be looking at something like a QX9650 which does in fact work on the 780i. The 9550 multi is locked at 8.5 and 9450 at 8 with their clocks being 2.83 and 2.66 respectively. I understand your dilemma, but in my opinion if you get within 10 days of the end of the upgrade promotion and the new quads still arent out, i would still get this board to allow you to go 45nm. granted that nehalem, the next chip probably wont be LGA775 and will most likely be something like 1210 or around there.
 
Why is everybody SO after this chip? Yes they will run cooler and use less power. However, they're gonna be tough to overclock. The Q6600's are far easier to get high Mhz with than these will be. I guess if you don't OC, then it's a great choice. Who doesn't OC though?:p
 
Brahmzy said:
Why is everybody SO after this chip? Yes they will run cooler and use less power. However, they're gonna be tough to overclock. The Q6600's are far easier to get high Mhz with than these will be. I guess if you don't OC, then it's a great choice. Who doesn't OC though?:p
Click to expand...

Well, even so... the Q9450 has 12MB L2 and it runs ALOT cooler stock. Notice that he's using a P4 Stock cooler... Here is an example with the 9550 that Everado at EVGA did with his 780i and Q9550...
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=198928&mpage=1&key=��

Notice...

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4975/run5bc2.png
 
Brahmzy said:
Why is everybody SO after this chip? Yes they will run cooler and use less power. However, they're gonna be tough to overclock. The Q6600's are far easier to get high Mhz with than these will be. I guess if you don't OC, then it's a great choice. Who doesn't OC though?:p
Click to expand...

QFT.

Keep in mind that much of the love over the Conroe / Kentsfield generation is due to the fact that the mainstream chips are such amazing overclockers. Yorkfield chips may have more OC potential, but the lower multipliers will introduce a roadblock brought on by current motherboard technology. Many people are no doubt hoping for a 4ghz+ Q9450 w/o much sweat on a good air or common water setup, and that's just not going to happen on any 780i, P35, or X38 board--none of which feature FSBs that can OC to the needed 500mhz w/o a great amount of modification and fine tuning. Perhaps the 1600mhz boards (790i and X48) will do this when paired with a quad, but then you'll not only need a new motherboard, you'll also need expensive DDR-3 RAM.

For someone who is coming to Core 2 from an older Pentium or from AMD, waiting for the 45nm chips makes sense. However, I'm convinced that they will prove to be a poor upgrade path for people with older C2Ds or quads. Compared to a Q6600 G0, the extra $100+ spent on a 9450 is not worth it if all you get is a bit more cache. You won't notice the difference in every day use. Furthermore, if Intel sticks to its release roadmap, Penryn is due to have a rather short shelf life, as Nehelem is scheduled for a late 2008 launch.

RussianHAXOR, if you want to OC a quad to 3.6ghz+ for everyday use, I think you'll be much better off taking your chances on a G0 Q6600 rather than waiting for a Q9450. A Q6600 needs a 400mhz FSB to hit 3.6ghz, while the Q9450 needs a 450mhz FSB. Many, but not all 680i boards (and 780i boards by extension, since they use the exact same north bridge,) have no trouble running at 400 / 1600mhz quad, but 450 / 1800mhz is much more iffy. Some can do it, but many can't. Furthermore, word is going around that certain Q6600s (such as the chips produced in the L737 batch) have been able to OC to 4ghz on air, stable and under 1.5 vCore. Again the 450mhz FSB needed for 4ghz on a Q6600 can be achieved on a very-good, currently available nForce board. The 500mhz FSB needed for 4ghz on a Q9650 can't.

Mark.
 
Markyip1 said:
QFT.

Keep in mind that much of the love over the Conroe / Kentsfield generation is due to the fact that the mainstream chips are such amazing overclockers. Yorkfield chips may have more OC potential, but the lower multipliers will introduce a roadblock brought on by current motherboard technology. Many people are no doubt hoping for a 4ghz+ Q9450 w/o much sweat on a good air or common water setup, and that's just not going to happen on any 780i, P35, or X38 board--none of which feature FSBs that can OC to the needed 500mhz w/o a great amount of modification and fine tuning. Perhaps the 1600mhz boards (790i and X48) will do this when paired with a quad, but then you'll not only need a new motherboard, you'll also need expensive DDR-3 RAM.

For someone who is coming to Core 2 from an older Pentium or from AMD, waiting for the 45nm chips makes sense. However, I'm convinced that they will prove to be a poor upgrade path for people with older C2Ds or quads. Compared to a Q6600 G0, the extra $100+ spent on a 9450 is not worth it if all you get is a bit more cache. You won't notice the difference in every day use. Furthermore, if Intel sticks to its release roadmap, Penryn is due to have a rather short shelf life, as Nehelem is scheduled for a late 2008 launch.

RussianHAXOR, if you want to OC a quad to 3.6ghz+ for everyday use, I think you'll be much better off taking your chances on a G0 Q6600 rather than waiting for a Q9450. A Q6600 needs a 400mhz FSB to hit 3.6ghz, while the Q9450 needs a 450mhz FSB. Many, but not all 680i boards (and 780i boards by extension, since they use the exact same north bridge,) have no trouble running at 400 / 1600mhz quad, but 450 / 1800mhz is much more iffy. Some can do it, but many can't. Furthermore, word is going around that certain Q6600s (such as the chips produced in the L737 batch) have been able to OC to 4ghz on air, stable and under 1.5 vCore. Again the 450mhz FSB needed for 4ghz on a Q6600 can be achieved on a very-good, currently available nForce board. The 500mhz FSB needed for 4ghz on a Q9650 can't.

Mark.
Click to expand...

Excellent post - This is exactly right.
The jewel is going to be (besides the $$$ QX9650) the E8500. I don't use stuff that will take advantage of two additional cores at this time. So, that means I'm all about the E8500. This puppy's got a 9.5x multi, is only $280 and will defitintely do 4.2/4.4Ghz on air with my mobo and memory. I usually upgrade my box every 8-10 months or so, so I think this thing's going to be a winner until the nehalam comes and (hopefully) DDR3 comes WAY down in price.
 
I somewhat understand where you guys are coming from, but to be honest. The price difference wont be much for me and i think that i will be able to get my system to 4.0GHZ and stay there. I dotn think that a Q6600 is gonna run nearly as cool as the 9450 and thats important to me since i dont want watercooling yet.
 
Just wondering, how do you intend to get a 780i to support the 500mhz FSB needed for a Q9450 at 4ghz?

Mark.
 
Well, the thing is...im gonna wait for my friend to get an ES and if he can get it to 4.0 or close ill get it. I mean he said that it should get around there, and i mean he got to 3.9 with the Q9550 and that wasnt even that hardcore of an OC.
 
I think we're all saying that 500Mhz FSB is your problem.

It's pretty rare for any board to hit 500Mhz FSB for a quad.
 
500MHz is no sweat, my board does up to 499 stable as a rock with my quad. For some reason 500 throws it into a BSOD, it must be some kind of strap or other setting as I still have more voltage to go. That said, with a new BIOS release I think even higher is possible. I think with the cooler running chips that require less voltage, most P35 boards shouldn't have a problem; 680i's, well, that's a whole different ballgame with quads as we know :p.
 
Well the straps should help as you get to a higher FSB because they loosen to higher timings.

And like I said, 500Mhz isn't something most boards get...
 
Mr. K6 said:
500MHz is no sweat, my board does up to 499 stable as a rock with my quad. For some reason 500 throws it into a BSOD, it must be some kind of strap or other setting as I still have more voltage to go. That said, with a new BIOS release I think even higher is possible. I think with the cooler running chips that require less voltage, most P35 boards shouldn't have a problem; 680i's, well, that's a whole different ballgame with quads as we know :p.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is indeed true that P35 and X38 boards support FSBs that scale very well. However the OP plans to purchase a 780i board, which given what we know about them, will perform on par with 680i boards. I don't know of a 680i board that can hit 500mhz with a dual core w/o significant hardware modifications (that go well beyond replacing TIMs.. this is void the warranty stuff.) Mine goes to 480mhz w/o much trouble and not a mhz more, yet I believe I'm in the rarity here. This is with a dual core too. Quads put more stress on the north bridge, which further limit FSB scalability.

Most motherboards today will not hit 500mhz with a quad, and for those that do, they're much more likely to be based on a P35 or X38 chipset than a 680/780i. Of course there is always the golden goose--the rare little north bridge that could... However, given all the information we have available to us, I think the chances are much greater of getting a Q6600 to 4ghz (on high end air or good water) than a Q9650 to 4ghz, assuming a current gen motherboard is used. Keep in mind that both a Kentsfield and a Yorkfiled (mulitplier locked) will stretch OC limits to reach 4ghz, and no one should expect that they'll get a chip from either generation to 4ghz. The Kentsfield will be processor-stretched, while the Yorkfield will stretch the motherboard. Another reason why I suggest going with the Q6600 is that there are chips from known batches which do scale to 4ghz on air with a stable and safe vCore. There is no data on specific Q9450 yet. All we know is that the lower multiplier will make them harder to OC and that they'll be at least $100 more expensive at launch. Why wait and pay more for a chip that will likely have the same or less OC potential than the Q6600? I just don't think it's a rational choice--assuming you have a high OC target.


Mark.
 
Good points Marky. I knew 680i's didn't overclock well with quads, but I was imagining that the 780's improved on that, I guess not :(. I think you're correct that these new CPUs will be FSB limited, and I don't think a normal overclock range of 3.8-4GHz 24/7 is too far off. If you remember the summer of '06 when Core 2 Duo was launched, everyone was flat out amazed at E6300's doing 3.5GHz with 500MHz FSB clocks on the P965 boards. I think we'll see this again. Either way, I'm really looking forward to the Q9450 and am definitely going to pick one up :D.
 
Couple of things about the benchmarks:

1) The test date and the 105 TDP show that the Q6600 tested was an early chip (probably an ES) from the B3 stepping. The G0 stepping Q6600 released this summer is a significantly improved product, with a lower TDP and much better OC numbers. It's made on the same wafer used to print out E6750s, E6850s, and the Kentsfield QX 1333mhz chip. The G0 Q6600 is a particularly strong OCer because it maintains the high multiplier and 1066mhz bus of its B3 predecessor, yet shares the physical and thermal dynamic characteristics of the newer 1333mhz processors. One way to think about it is that a B3 Q6600 is essentially two E6600s slapped together, while a G0 Q6600 is two E6850s slapped together with a reduced stock FSB. The Penryns loose this high-multiplier advantage, and because there is no x9 Penryn at a reasonable price, you'll have to pay $1000 to see a 4ghz Penryn on a currently-available motherboard. I'm not saying that every G0 Q6600 can reach 4ghz. I'm sure that most can't. However, I appreciate being able to push a chip as far as it will go, rather than being limited by my motherboard or RAM.

2) If you are going to OC your chip, then benchmarks taken at stock speed loose their meaning. It has indeed been shown that Penryn chips perform better per megahertz due to SSE4 and the larger cache, but this performance advantage is very slight (especially since little to no software utilizes the SSE4 instruction set.) If you can get a Q6600 to 3.6ghz, but a Q9450 to only 3.2 because the motherboard craps out, then which chip will come out ahead on the benchmarks?

3) Benchmarks, while useful for predicting performance and for testing system configurations, has little relation to everyday performance in most main-stream / gaming usage scenarios.

Whew, anyway I feel that I've made my point here as best I could tonight. I did initially plan for the Penryn myself, and it was only until eVga announced it's $90 step up program that I reconsidered and went a different route. The lower multiplier was a bummer for me, and the lack of confidence in getting a currently available motherboard up to 500mhz w/ a quad sealed the decision.

Again, if you're not upgrading from a Conroe or Kentsfield, then waiting for Penryn may make more sense then buying a current gen chip at the tale end of its lifecycle. However, if your goal is indeed to push 3.6 or 4ghz, I really do think you'll have a much easier time of it with the Q6600, despite the Q9450 being a cooler-running chip. It's a matter of megahertz and multipliers, and perhaps the fact that someone at Intel probably wasn't too keen on learning that their $200 chip was cannibalizing sales of their $1000 chip, since the $200 chip could OC to $1000 chip heights and beyond.

Mark.
 
To be honest mark, i wasnt really planning on doing THAT much overclocking. It would be nice and maybe ill find that capability later but right now i want the best stock performance i can get.
 
Well in that case the Penryn would likley be the way to go. Good luck on the rig :)

Mark.
 
Thanks mark. To be honest, i dabble in overclocking and the best OC i get is what im happy with. I mean who can complain about a 3.2GHZ Quadcore Processor with 4GB of 1000MHZ ram Running on Air? Right? :D

Now, intel ALL YOUR PERYNS ARE BELONG TO US>
 
Indeed. 3.2ghz is, in the end, nothing at all to scoff at. To me, OCing has always been a value proposition. What is the best performing chip at the most reasonable price and how far can it be taken?

I was quite gung-ho about Penryn and the processors are quite a marvel in and of themselves, but I missed the information about the lower multipliers until the eVga 780i announcement. As I'm upgrading from an E6600 oc'd to 3.6ghz, maintaining a high OC on the quad is important to me. I therefore found the lower multiplier story troubling. As the E6850 was released at the same price-point as the outgoing E6600 (same multiplier, bumped up FSB,) and since the Q6600 was upgraded internally while keeping the same specs, I had assumed that Intel would follow similar course for the Penryns. I had expected simply a Q6600 running at a stock 3ghz. As this is not the case, I decided to place my bet with a G0 Quad, which hopefully will sail to 3.6ghz and beyond.

Mark.
 
It makes sense for you since you will be running a 775 chipset already and you would have to buy another motherboard to get the Peryn as for me, i am upgrading everything because im still on 939 :(
 
Why would i just upgrade to another Dual Core when the price difference is going to be minimal?
 
RussianHAXOR said:
Why would i just upgrade to another Dual Core when the price difference is going to be minimal?
Click to expand...

Did you mean performance difference?

Will you actually USE a quad core? How is 4.4Ghz on air for $280 not attractive to you?
 
I run alot of demanding applications at the same time thats why im using 4GB right off the bat and upgrading later.
 
Yeah, im pretty ridiculous with my quadcore usage. I know that i can push it to run alot. I love making my computer work, thats what i bought it for! :D
 
actually I was planning to go for the Q9450, but…well….I’ll admit it, the low multiplier (especially against the E8500) is damn disturbing

I don’t want to OC just for the OC if you know what I mean, so I was trying to convince myself that a 12MB L2 cache quad chip @ 3.2 is enough, and it is enough, I mean how many additional FPS @ Crysis (or whatever) it’ll give me if it was @ 4.2 (or whatever)
But… damn why X8?!?!?! Why not X9 or 9.5?!?! I hate Intel

so my new idea now is…. Pick the $183 E8400 (3000@stock with X9 multi) over the $316 Q9450 (2600@stock with X8 multi) and play with it till the Nehalem arrives (so I’ll keep it for like 8 months)

and maybe the E8400 at something like 4.2Ghz will please me more than the Quad Q9450 at lower speed specially that these 2 additional cores will be inactive most of the time

but…additional cores will benefit me in the future and that’s why the plan is all about waiting the Nehalem

the thing that I’m afraid will crush my plan is the LGA1366 socket thing in the Nehalem, I’m afraid this means that I’ll have to upgrade my mobo and get one that supports the Nehalem, and that’s what I won’t do cuz I’m planning to pick the highest end X48 mobo I can find together with the E8400 (or whatever)

E8400 + high end X48 then Nehalem + High end mobo to support it
or
Q9450 + high end X48 and keep it till the 32nm arrives
Or
E8500 just to OC it

Well….. my 660 P4 is doing fine for me now (not really) so I guess the Q9450 will satisfy me for a long time and help me (financially) concentrate on the Graphic cards madness

anyway I’m still planning :D

futureintelprocessorsfold4.jpg


http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=486
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top