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pump advice

X

xuldan

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
104
After reading so much my head is spinning, I still need some help selecting a pump. What is pump max head? Doesn't an inline pump make the most sense so wasted heat energy goes into the air instead of the water? I plan on looping to my cpu, gpu, and nb, so I need something with some power, and I would prefer 12v I think. Any auggestions?
 
How about the Laing D5? It's a 12v pump with the high performance of its predecessor, without all the noise.
 
cool...I was looking at that one but was concerned because I had read that the d4 was powerful but a bit noisy, which I'm trying to avoid. Good to hear that they may have fixed that issue.
 
I've read that the laing pumps are larger than the eheim ones, among others. Is the size going to be an issue in a mid-tower case or am I going to need a full tower?
 
if you worry about the size and noise, just get the DDC pump. it is compact and quiet all in one. With a small mod, it could greatly improve the performance.

Max head is the maximum vertical water column the pump is able to push.

List what you are planning to cool then someone will tell you what pump is good and what is not.
 
If you want no noise and lots of flow then get either an Aqua Computer Aquastream or an Innovatek HPPS.
 
Top Nurse said:
If you want no noise and lots of flow then get either an Aqua Computer Aquastream or an Innovatek HPPS.
Click to expand...

My vote goes to the DDC over any of those two pumps. The DDC is as silent as any of those, and performs on par with normally, but when modded greatly outperforms them. Not to mention it is nearly 50$ cheaper.


Also here is a size comparison of different pumps to give you an idea. Linky
The Innovatek HPPS and Aqua Computer Aquastream are both about the size of the 1048 (and about the same flow...perhaps a bit higher).
 
cpu: Athlon64 3000+
vid card: XFX Geforce 6600GT
mobo: EPoX EP-9NPA+Ultra Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra

I am planning on buying a SATA DiamondMax10 250gb soon, which I might also watercool...

Ultragamma said:
With a small mod, it could greatly improve the performance.
Click to expand...
how's that?
 
xuldan said:
how's that?
Click to expand...

they are talking about modification of the pumps top. the short version is that you replace the inlet barb witha 1/2" barb that goes straight into the top rather than in from the side. doing so gives a huge bump in flowrate without affecting head all that much. the only real issue is that the pump no longer fits in such tight spaces. Lee over at systemcooling.com has a really good article explaining the whole thing right here.
oh and killxswitch, if you use the right cooler it can make a huge difference in HDD temps. especially if you are using raptors or SCSI drives. any time you can take a component (like a raptor) that runs near 60C and drop it into the 30's it just has to last longer. even if it didnt benefit from the temp drop it is still nice to remove that heat from the case.
 
Erasmus354 said:
My vote goes to the DDC over any of those two pumps. The DDC is as silent as any of those, and performs on par with normally, but when modded greatly outperforms them. Not to mention it is nearly 50$ cheaper.


Also here is a size comparison of different pumps to give you an idea. Linky
The Innovatek HPPS and Aqua Computer Aquastream are both about the size of the 1048 (and about the same flow...perhaps a bit higher).
Click to expand...

About $40 cheaper for the DDC, but the German imports have the ability to change tubing sizes and easily adjust flow (BTW, the DDC is made in Hungary and assembled in Germany). Both also have connectivity possibilities with their electronic gadget boxes. Also another good coice would be the new Asetek pump that have a reservoir built into them as well as being able to adjust flow. I think they even have a Windows program to monitor and adjust the pumps. :D

The Aquastream is the exact same size as the Eheim 1046 because the controller is mounted separately from the main body. Another plus is that the latest Aquastream controller has three OC settings. The Innovatek HPPS Plus is about the same size as the 1048 because they choose to mount the controller in the pump body itself.
 
killxswitch said:
from what i've read, cooling your hdd is more trouble and money than it's worth.
Click to expand...

Depends on the HD, the size of the case, and the size of the tubes you are using in your loop. Grab a hold of a Raptor while it is crunching some big data and you amy change your mind.
 
Top Nurse said:
About $40 cheaper for the DDC, but the German imports have the ability to change tubing sizes and easily adjust flow (BTW, the DDC is made in Hungary and assembled in Germany). Both also have connectivity possibilities with their electronic gadget boxes. Also another good coice would be the new Asetek pump that have a reservoir built into them as well as being able to adjust flow. I think they even have a Windows program to monitor and adjust the pumps. :D

The Aquastream is the exact same size as the Eheim 1046 because the controller is mounted separately from the main body. Another plus is that the latest Aquastream controller has three OC settings. The Innovatek HPPS Plus is about the same size as the 1048 because they choose to mount the controller in the pump body itself.
Click to expand...

Of course to use any of those fancy features for the innovatek or the aquastream you then need to plop down another 250$ on the aquaero (or innovatek equivalent). So if you are going to use that as an argument for the pumps you might as well say the DDC is 300$ cheaper. Also, who really cares about adjusting the speed of their pump? When the DDC at full bore is completely silent there is no need to throttle it down, that would just be pointless. None of the pumps consume enough power to make that a factor either. The only useful feature is to shut down the computer in case of pump failure.

Of course assuming your CPU is in the same loop as the pump your computer will shut down before any damage is done anyways, so that is also a non-issue.

So basically you are spending extra for "bling" and the ability to say "look at all the useless stuff I can do with my pump!"

In the end it comes down to a personal cost benefit analysis. Personally I see a whole lot of cost, and very insignificant if any benefit. Others viewpoints may vary, but I believe people should educate themselves fully before plopping down that much money on a possibly inferior solution.
 
Erasmus354 said:
So basically you are spending extra for "bling" and the ability to say "look at all the useless stuff I can do with my pump!"
Click to expand...
Next I'm going to watercool my mouse. I modded a D5 to plug into the usb port, with the cable built into the water loop. Now I know you must be questioning why you should wc your mouse, well, these new lasers get quite hot, and what better way to show off your l33t skills, than to pump some burbling blue goo into your fancy new mouse
:D

Anyways, read some reviews and buy what you like and can afford.









LMFAO........if I had cash to waste on stupid crap like that, I'd trade my Lambo for a Pinto and drop a 351 in it :cool:
 
My suggestion goes to the DDC... The mod isn't as hard (if it is even hard) as it looks. In total, I think I took 30 minutes to cut everything I wanted cut. Then again, I decided to be picky and drill the rest of the ribs out so that I could make it uber sexy =D.

The honest to god hardest part about this mod was actually cutting out the ribs, other then that, its smooth sailing from there. And yes, you should DEFINATELY drill a pilot hole. I decided to go to fast and not make a pilot hole and in return, my hole looked a little funky cause the material wasn't half as thick as I suspected, lol.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Of course to use any of those fancy features for the innovatek or the aquastream you then need to plop down another 250$ on the aquaero (or innovatek equivalent). So if you are going to use that as an argument for the pumps you might as well say the DDC is 300$ cheaper. Also, who really cares about adjusting the speed of their pump? When the DDC at full bore is completely silent there is no need to throttle it down, that would just be pointless. None of the pumps consume enough power to make that a factor either. The only useful feature is to shut down the computer in case of pump failure.
Click to expand...

You can overvolt (overclock if you like) the HPPS w/out needing any expensive LCD device. All you need to do is remove the back end cover and bridge a connection. Innovatek's newest revision; the HPPS Plus has a max head of somewhere near 12-13ft to compete with the DDC, but it does get louder on the higher power mode.

Noise is very subjective unfortunately. My HPPS on "normal" (close to stock Eheim 1048 levels) is silent - I can't tell if it's on or not until I park my ear on top, whereas my Laing DDC (with LICS filltank on top) is something I can hear at its stock setting. In all, I prefer the HPPS, but I don't really have a need for the higher power of the DDC with my "copper slug in plexi housing" blocks.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Of course to use any of those fancy features for the innovatek or the aquastream you then need to plop down another 250$ on the aquaero (or innovatek equivalent). So if you are going to use that as an argument for the pumps you might as well say the DDC is 300$ cheaper. Also, who really cares about adjusting the speed of their pump? When the DDC at full bore is completely silent there is no need to throttle it down, that would just be pointless. None of the pumps consume enough power to make that a factor either. The only useful feature is to shut down the computer in case of pump failure.

In the end it comes down to a personal cost benefit analysis. Personally I see a whole lot of cost, and very insignificant if any benefit. Others viewpoints may vary, but I believe people should educate themselves fully before plopping down that much money on a possibly inferior solution.
Click to expand...

As I said before the current firmware of the Aquastream pump has a set of jumpers on the controller so you can OC the pump (essentially it is an AC pump that works off 12 Vdc and you change the frequency of the 9Vac voltage to increase the flow). You do not need the Aquaero to do this. Of course the Aquaero gives you much more finer control if that is something you might need and have uses for the other functions. Being able to change the flow is a nice thing as sometimes you can have to much flow and it is nice to be able to adjust your flow. Now I hear people who use big noisy pumps saying that the DDC is quiet, but I also hear other people on this forum who say that the DDC is noisy and got rid of it and went back to an Eheim or it's modded variants. One other salient point is in the realm of reliability. The DDC has had a lot of problems in this area. Someone posted recently that said the newer DDC still had the problem of not starting on occasion. When is the last (or first time) you ever heard of someones Eheim or derivitive failing to start unless it was 5-10 years old?

I think education is a key issue in why so many people are buying Aqua Computer or Innovatek equipment as well. The more they look into the mechanics of the AC systems the more they see that the low cost solutions may quite possibly be the inferior systems. IOW, with a German system you get more bang for the buck and you get a system you can grow into.
 
There was a bad batch of DDCs...so what. If apple thought they were reliable enough to be the ONLY pump used in a mainstream OEM watercooling solution then they should be pretty darn reliable.

Also when is too much flow a bad thing? Only if you poorly clamped down your tubing. With any of the aforementioned pumps they cant really produce enough flow to get any of the normal negative effects (noisy or consume too much power thus putting out too much heat).
 
Top Nurse said:
I think education is a key issue in why so many people are buying Aqua Computer or Innovatek equipment as well. The more they look into the mechanics of the AC systems the more they see that the low cost solutions may quite possibly be the inferior systems. IOW, with a German system you get more bang for the buck and you get a system you can grow into.
Click to expand...

Personally, no! As much as I want to agree with you TH, I feel I can not. The only German system that I can say for definate as having more bang per buck are the Alphacool systems... they perform wonderfully well (above standard) and are priced wonderfully low! Try 21.99 Euros for the NexXos XP Light and then compare it to the Aquacomputer XT block.

What you pay for in the AC XT is not bang per buck performance, but bling, pure and simple as the XP is most certainly (probably) still the best European block around.

Now you know too that I have a fond place in my heart for AC equipment... (Aquero, dual Aquabay, Aquatube, Aquagratix, Ramplex, Aquastream... list goes on) but I even understand that AC isn't all that much about performance as it is about looking good.
To AC, as long as it looks good and it's performance is adequate for silence, then they are happy.

The DDC and the Aquastream are identically priced (on the AC website anyway), but my advice is this... for performance or use in higher flow or more restrictive systems ... go for the DDC, for silence or use in lower flow less restricted systems for an Aquastream/HPPS.

Personally, I use both in my rig.
 
Top Nurse said:
I think education is a key issue in why so many people are buying Aqua Computer or Innovatek equipment as well. The more they look into the mechanics of the AC systems the more they see that the low cost solutions may quite possibly be the inferior systems. IOW, with a German system you get more bang for the buck and you get a system you can grow into.
Click to expand...
German system offer more bang for you buck,,,,,,,,,, :eek: Not here in the US they don't. And even over in Germany there have been a lot of review sites that say although AC stuff looks great and performs OK, they aren't worth the extra cash.
So on this note, seeing as I'm not reviewing anything right now, I guess I'll start posting reviews of this here so people can read for themselves............... :D
 
Bio-Hazard said:
German system offer more bang for you buck,,,,,,,,,, :eek: Not here in the US they don't. And even over in Germany there have been a lot of review sites that say although AC stuff looks great and performs OK, they aren't worth the extra cash.
So on this note, seeing as I'm not reviewing anything right now, I guess I'll start posting reviews of this here so people can read for themselves............... :D
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea! Please make sure you get the latest hardware. :)
 
It would be nice if I could find any of aqua computers latest hardware reviewed. Most of what I found is a year or more old, guess they don't like their stuffed reviewed by the larger sites................... :eek:
 
Bio-Hazard said:
It would be nice if I could find any of aqua computers latest hardware reviewed. Most of what I found is a year or more old, guess they don't like their stuffed reviewed by the larger sites................... :eek:
Click to expand...

Well if you are selling it faster than you can make it why bother? While it pays to advertise some people have to. :eek: Call Sharka as I think they have an order coming in today or Monday. Another stock order is coming in about 2-3 weeks as well..
 
Now why would I want to call sharka for a CPU block or anything esle for that matter when I already have the top performing gear on the market............ :eek: If for some reason my boss (site owner) wants to review something from AC, he'll let me know. But I see no reason to step backwards.
 
I really doubt AC needs review or advertisement when they have TN doing it for them. Regardless of the situation and performance vs price ratio, TN will recommend AC gear over all Other products. Good Job :rolleyes:
 
Ultragamma said:
I really doubt AC needs review or advertisement when they have TN doing it for them. Regardless of the situation and performance vs price ratio, TN will recommend AC gear over all Other products. Good Job :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

hehe lol, that comment reminds me of church missionaries :)
 
I just sold AC my water cooled laser mouse blocks. Look for a $299 MX-1000 mouse in 6-8 weeks :D


Oh, what were we talking about anyway?
 
Bio-Hazard said:
Now why would I want to call sharka for a CPU block or anything esle for that matter when I already have the top performing gear on the market............ :eek: If for some reason my boss (site owner) wants to review something from AC, he'll let me know. But I see no reason to step backwards.
Click to expand...

Because you are the one who said you were going to do reviews on AC equipment a few posts back (see below). :rolleyes:

So on this note, seeing as I'm not reviewing anything right now, I guess I'll start posting reviews of this here so people can read for themselves............... :D
Click to expand...
 
Ultragamma said:
I really doubt AC needs review or advertisement when they have TN doing it for them. Regardless of the situation and performance vs price ratio, TN will recommend AC gear over all Other products. Good Job :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I suppose that is in jest right? I quite often recommend Asetek, Innovatek, as well as Aqua Computer Gear. I have even suggested a few G4 or G5's on occasion along with noisy bad ass pumps. I just ask what people are looking for before recommending whereas many here just start spouting off about how great DD or Swiftech is. :rolleyes:
 
I ment posting links to the german sites, excuse me if I wasn't clear enough. Can't post what AC doesn't have currently reviewed, and I'll be danmed if I pay out your hard earned tax dollars on the low performing stuff that won't cool as well as a old heater out of a 30 year old car.
 
Top Nurse said:
I suppose that is in jest right? I quite often recommend Asetek, Innovatek, as well as Aqua Computer Gear. I have even suggested a few G4 or G5's on occasion along with noisy bad ass pumps. I just ask what people are looking for before recommending whereas many here just start spouting off about how great DD or Swiftech is. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Only when the person asks for performance olny system which AC can't deliver................ :eek:
 
OK!... this has gone riiiiiigghhtt off-topic... (if you can remember what is it!)

Let's just face it... some people prefer DD, Swiftech et all... some people prefer AC and some people prefer anything and everything as long as it works for them.

Now what were we talking about before this thread went ever so slightly off-topic? :rolleyes:
 
Ends up like every other thread.....................AC against all others.................... :eek:
 
Actually the topic was what was the best pump and the OP wanted something that had some power and was 12 volt. This thread was staying pretty much on course until Post # 13 when a certain individual decided to start flaming. That same person then went over to the AC thread and started flaming there as well. Flames beget flames usually, however I generally try to just point out inaccuracies and mistakes in what others say as needed when the flaming starts. Why flame when you can make your point without it? :p
 
Top Nurse said:
Actually the topic was what was the best pump and the OP wanted something that had some power and was 12 volt. This thread was staying pretty much on course until Post # 13 when a certain individual decided to start flaming. That same person then went over to the AC thread and started flaming there as well. Flames beget flames usually, however I generally try to just point out inaccuracies and mistakes in what others say as needed when the flaming starts. Why flame when you can make your point without it? :p
Click to expand...

flames are useless posts that contain no factual information and are simply designed to be, well useless. My post was far from that. Instead I was pointing out some of the many shortcomings of the AC and Innovatek pumps, and how I felt they were not economically sound choices. By pointing out the large price disparity, and the fact that many of the touted "features" are simply rendered useless by common sense and/or standard motherboard safeguards.
 
Top Nurse said:
I think education is a key issue in why so many people are buying Aqua Computer or Innovatek equipment as well. The more they look into the mechanics of the AC systems the more they see that the low cost solutions may quite possibly be the inferior systems. IOW, with a German system you get more bang for the buck and you get a system you can grow into.
Click to expand...
your kidding right? pay more to get less or equal performance....seriously you and some other fan boys in this forum need to think a little wider....

i think that you are a fan boy for german systems, the same as Erasmus354 is a fan boy for larger tubing do i dare say american systems.....

personally i have tasted a lot of them, all sizes 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 etc....from asestek, swiftech, dd, etc.

and i think that they all have their own merits and applications.....in my experience i know that you are wrong....yet i would not come here and post such a thing since i dont have the equipment etc to test the system in a way that would be considered "scientific"(today being the exception)....
Everybody loves and justifies their systems, but unless you can prove it with scientific unbias reviews, dont post such a thing....

the fact of the matter is that "german""european" systems, are hella expensive, with lots of eye candy.....and have yet to be proven on a reliable review sites this side of the pond.
the selling point of noise is old, big and small tubing can be either silent or loud, or both....is the user that when mounting it "decides" what he wants....in my book ill stick to the unbias, proven products no matter which company makes them....
by the way your rig looks sicks big props....

to the original op. what size of tubbing are you running?block?rad?how many other blocks?
without knowing anything else i personally like the laing, swiftech, dd whatever ddc 350...
silent, good perfomance, good price etc....there are of course other pumps and depending on the size of tubing, blocks , budget etc might fit your bill better....
 
thelostrican said:
and i think that they all have their own merits and applications.....in my experience i know that you are wrong....yet i would not come here and post such a thing since i dont have the equipment etc to test the system in a way that would be considered "scientific"(today being the exception)....
Everybody loves and justifies their systems, but unless you can prove it with scientific unbias reviews, dont post such a thing....

the fact of the matter is that "german""european" systems, are hella expensive, with lots of eye candy.....and have yet to be proven on a reliable review sites this side of the pond.
the selling point of noise is old, big and small tubing can be either silent or loud, or both....is the user that when mounting it "decides" what he wants....in my book ill stick to the unbias, proven products no matter which company makes them....
by the way your rig looks sicks big props.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the props on Feeding Frenzy :D I guess I should have made myself clearer about "the more bang for the buck" statement. What I was saying is that the more bang is about the total product system capability and not necessarily flat out performance. If you want flat out performance then you should go for a G5 and a big ass pump. BTW, for all you people who think I only believe in European systems you would be wrong as I have requested that Cathar make me a G7 to my "bling-bling" specs. :cool:
 
how do you like the pc power and cooling? i couldnt stand mine, to noisy, no ifs ands or butts...that thing is horrible great craftmanship, but jeeez they are so noisy....

I guess I should have made myself clearer about "the more bang for the buck" statement. What I was saying is that the more bang is about the total product system capability and not necessarily flat out performance. If you want flat out performance then you should go for a G5 and a big ass pump. BTW, for all you people who think I only believe in European systems you would be wrong as I have requested that Cathar make me a G7 to my "bling-bling" specs.
Click to expand...
i think that its still a matter a personal opinion, but as such you and i both are entitle to one....
the g7 rocks looks sweet, i was thinking about it, but decide that this g4 its still good enough....i opened it just a few days ago, and everything was pristine, no clogs or anything, i added o rings since cathar didnt send them out with them, what pump are you going to use? are you keeping the same tubbing? anyhow feel free to ask if going for bigger tubbing... a g5 should do great with a ddc.....at least the g4 does.....
 
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