PSU uneducated, will this one work?

[A_belmont]

Hello world!
So, I'm in the process of selling the macbook I no longer use, and once that sells I'll probably do the same with my ps3 and the like, and pool some money for a game computer that can really just be the entertainment hub to alliviate the stress of Starcraft 2 from my netbook (you'd be surprised how well the new EEE netbooks do with gaming...but that's a whole different topic).

But anyways, at this point I have a few build ideas in mind, but the concern always comes down to - "is this PSU up to the task?"

My two biggest questions are: Will a 550Watt PSU handle a Radeon 6850 just fine? I don't plan to do much in the way of overclocking, at least not until I know a whole lot more about overclocking.

My other question is will a 550Watt PSU handle a Nvidia Geforce gtx560, or am I just fooling myself with that one? If I am, what is a PSU wattage that is up to the task?

Thanks a bundle to anyone who responds, I really want a rig that can handle games well, and might even stand up to Skyrim Okay... I just want to be sure my PSU info is correct.

 

[Profumo]

An excellent 550W PSU will run two 6850 in Crossfire or two 560 in SLI

However, you might want a slightly better card than the 6850 for a designated gaming rig which is supposed to run 'well' all current games and most future ones

I'd suggest a 6870 or higher, 6870<560Ti<6950.

 

[A_belmont]

Thanks for an amazingly fast reply!
I suppose I should clarify what 'run well' exactly means in my text book. While I have perfect vision 60fps almost never looks stuttery to me, and some details like perfect shadow effects are sometimes so subtle that I don't always perceive them at all. So a "good rig" for me is something that can play bioshock, starcraft 2, Mass effect games, and potentially 1080p movies once I spring for a blu-ray drive after selling the ps3. Also be able to handle Rage, Skyrim, Arkham City at 1080p resolutions (my monitor's max), high settings preferred but not worth $300 more over stable framerate and Medium settings. I would like it to look better than on the PS3 =P

I've been pricing out video game cards and the two that are at the end of my budget range right now (on newegg) are the Radeon 6870, or a Geforce 560 - those are right around $200 outside of a combo deal.

I said the 6850 because it's part of a DIY combo that's below my ideal budget range, but still has very good components. Granted....if I shelled out $100-$150 more I could get something far better, but that's just not the level of investment I want to make right now....maybe in a couple of years.

I do feel the need to push this back to the topic of a PSU. The psu in the combo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016) looks pretty run of the mill, I'm nowhere near as well-versed as many of you in this forum though!

Would something similar handle a Nvidia 560? And is it going to hold back the card's power at all? I do plan to throw Skyrim at this rig, Arkham city, and probably Rage as well (BF3....probably not, the specs for that game made my wallet cry).

 

[Profumo]

It is a Delta built value unit, considering what else is available at similar prices is not worth the money..
List your complete budget and we'll offer you suggestions on what would make the best solution for your needs

 

[A_belmont]

My budget range is about $650-$850, I don't need a monitor or speakers, mice or keyboards.... just the tower and all it's guts!
This combo I'm mentioning is linked here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.728868) I know it's missing a dvd drive, a wifi card (which I need x.x) and Windows 7. If anyone knows a way to get windows 7 cheaper (like with a student discount...) please let me know!

Another combo is (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.653780)

I've worked with AMD processors in the past, but I'm willing to give intel a go, I've heard their pretty impressive. I do really like working through newegg, I for sure view them as a trusted way of getting components!

 

[Tsumi]

HD6950 2gb for your best bang/buck graphics card. About $250. And it will max out all current games at 1080P, and there's also a good chance you can unlock to a 6970. And you can always crossfire later on, and you want that 2gb for crossfire. If you don't plan to, you can go cheaper with a 1gb version.

i5 2500k processor with a Z68 motherboard. Comes out to about $350. You can go cheaper with P67 for about $300.

Antec Illusion 300 case for about $50.

8gb RAM goes on sale for ~$30 fairly often. I believe the Patriot Sector 5 8gb 1600mhz is still $25 AR on Newegg.

There are several power supply deals floating around at the moment. A good 500-600 watt would be sufficient, although you want to go with a 750 watt if you want to crossfire. 500-600 is about $50-70, 750 is about $100.

Wifi cards are cheap, I would get the USB one that goes on sale at meritline at least like once every other week. It's about $10-15.

DVD drive is about $20.

A 1tb 7200 RPM drive goes for about $50-60 from Samsung.

I believe there are student discounts on Windows 7. Don't know where to find them at the moment, try the Microsoft store?

That puts you somewhat overbudget, but it would be the best value I could see at the moment.

 

[Profumo]

Piracy advocating removed-Paul_Johnson

I've worked with AMD processors in the past, but I'm willing to give intel a go, I've heard their pretty impressive. I do really like working through newegg, I for sure view them as a trusted way of getting components!

An AM3 platform at this moment in time is a poor solution.. here's the best you can obtain with your budget at this time..

CPU: Intel 2500K @ 220$
MoBo: BIOSTAR TZ68A+ @ 100$
VGA.1: Gigabyte HD 6870 @ 160$ after rebate
VGA.2 Galaxy GTX 560Ti @ 195$ after rebate
PSU: Antec HCG 620 @ 50$ after rebate
HDD: Samsung F4 1TB @ 60$
SSD: Crucial M4 64Gb @ 95$
RAM: Patriot 'Sector 5' 8Gb 1600Mhz @ 30$ after rebate
Cooler.1: Scythe Mugen 3 @ 50$
Cooler.2: Zerother ZT10D @ 50$
Case.1: Antec Three Hundred Illusion @ 60$
Case.2: Enermax Hoplite @ 60$ after rebate

Two graphic cards listed at two different price points(both are solit deals), added an excellent SSD for very little money but you can however skip that if you don't think it's a must for now, in which case you should pick a slightly faster HDD(WD Caviar Black for example), two excellently priced cases suggested but being an issue of taste the options are opened, also you could leave the CPU cooler for later if it hits your budget too hard, just know that these CPUs overclock extremely easy
Pretty much everything listed above is the 'best deal' in its specific category.

 

[Profumo]

double post fail :\

 

[E4g1e]

My budget range is about $650-$850, I don't need a monitor or speakers, mice or keyboards.... just the tower and all it's guts!
This combo I'm mentioning is linked here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.728868) I know it's missing a dvd drive, a wifi card (which I need x.x) and Windows 7. If anyone knows a way to get windows 7 cheaper (like with a student discount...) please let me know!

Another combo is (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.653780)

I've worked with AMD processors in the past, but I'm willing to give intel a go, I've heard their pretty impressive. I do really like working through newegg, I for sure view them as a trusted way of getting components!

Neither combo in your links is ideal: The Basiq, as Profumo stated, is a budget Delta-made platform that actually provides less power on the +12V rail than many of the quality 500W units despite the Basiq's 550W total power rating. (I looked at the label, and the BP550+ provides only 444W, or 37A, combined on the +12V rails compared to the 480W/40A rating on many of the quality PSUs rated at 50W less total.) What's more, take away the partially modular design (which means making all the cables fixed instead of removable), and you're left with a PSU that's worth only about $35 to $40.

The PSU in the other combo deal is a Corsair TX650 - but it's an older version that's been obsolesced by the newer and higher-quality TX650 v2 PSU.

 

[A_belmont]

Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to post so far! I really do appreciate all the effort you've put into this. =)

That first build is for sure outside my price range. $850 is a true ceiling for me, my goal here is to sell this macbook, ps3 & games, probably 3ds & game (can't believe I bought that crap thing) and consolidate all of that stuff into one rig, with cash for games and well....cash afterwords. It's kind of a challenge unto itself really, see if I can maximize sale of my current assets and turn them into something more....well....good. $850 is a high, high extreme for what I really want to put into this machine.

The two builds shown so far are really helpful, and incredibly good affordable builds. If you still have the time, I'd like to ask further questions, offer counter possibilities and weigh cutting down on costs in a few areas.

The cases are awesome, first and formeost, especially the antec! The raidmax PSU at 730W is very similar to a raidmax I had in my old, long gone am2 build that's no longer with this world.
RAM.... both of you have put up 8gigs, and I have been out of the PC scene for three years. Is 8 gigs really necessary, over 4? While some games are certainly pushing hardware to the max, realistically how much will the frame rates drop with 4 gigs? 8 feels a bit overkill...but like I said, I haven't been on top of this stuff for like...four years.

The CPU - I was starting to get the clue that the 2500k is the best bang for your buck cpu out there, even if it's a full $100 more than comparable quad cores from AMD... =(
But! I read somewhere that the i3 cpu's are pretty darn good. Would an i3 hold up to games fairly well until I have more funds to upgrade the cpu at a later date? Or is it so significant a change in power that it's worth the extra bucks?

The GPU - Holy cow.... those bad boys are bad on my wallet! As much as this might be a dumb question - what's the applicable difference between the 560 and the 560ti nvidia cards? It's fun to dream, sure, but Owowowowow my budget hurts x.x

SSD is a luxury I cannot afford... better cooling is certainly something to invest in, but once again, given that I'm trying to do this as cheaply as I can, it'll have to wait a bit...

And an extra thanks to the PSU explanation, I had a sneaking suspicion that PSU was bad business, too bad, the rest of that combo really fit my needs, but both PSU's in that case really stuck it to me.

 

[Profumo]

The raidmax PSU at 730W is very similar to a raidmax I had in my old, long gone am2 build that's no longer with this world.

There are no Raidmax PSUs suggested above, and you won't see anyone here that has a vague clue about PSUs suggesting a Raidmax unit

RAM.... both of you have put up 8gigs, and I have been out of the PC scene for three years. Is 8 gigs really necessary, over 4? While some games are certainly pushing hardware to the max, realistically how much will the frame rates drop with 4 gigs? 8 feels a bit overkill...but like I said, I haven't been on top of this stuff for like...four years.

This can be a fairly long discussion with solid arguments for both sides of the fence.. however you should look at this from a different perspective, RAM is so cheap right now that avoiding to shell out 10$ more for another 4Gb is a mistake any way you put it

But! I read somewhere that the i3 cpu's are pretty darn good. Would an i3 hold up to games fairly well until I have more funds to upgrade the cpu at a later date? Or is it so significant a change in power that it's worth the extra bucks?

There is a massive difference when you factor in CPU heavy games like SC2 and the likes.. if you really want to cut costs that much just go with the cheapest Sandy Bridge I5 you can find(2300/2310/2320/2400).

The GPU - Holy cow.... those bad boys are bad on my wallet! As much as this might be a dumb question - what's the applicable difference between the 560 and the 560ti nvidia cards? It's fun to dream, sure, but Owowowowow my budget hurts x.x

The difference is pretty consistent.. again, think of the 6870 as the bottom line, the 560 non Ti is slightly below it

 

[A_belmont]

Whoops! My bad on the Raidmax.... That PSU was actually the best I had ever had, given that the first died....and the second some priv company put in it and didn't meet the power demands of the GPU....the Raidmax worked without a hitch, was quiet... but hey, I'm in no way intending to start a war here! I'll just take it I was lucky and move on =P

This is true... my argument will probably be that by the time I do need 8 gigs of RAM, I'll also be needing to do extensive upgrades on cpu and video cards, etc... and it probably wouldn't hurt to get a new mobo (or might need to if ports are different), thus needing new ram if standards have gone up... unless there's a really good Mail in rebate or promotion, I probably will go with 4 gigs, even if it is only a $10 difference.

That's a very solid and convincing argument on the i5! Really, the 2500K does look to be the nicest to me...

GPU, GPU....
Well, I would be tempted by the current free Arkham City promotion with the standard 560 - even though some 6870 cards come with deus ex.... getting arkham city for free is a for sure plus, saves on software costs later (because Deus ex just isn't on my 'must have' list). But I'll do some more thinking on these cards...

As far as obtaining windows go, Microsoft only gives students a discounted 'upgrade' option, and unless I can fish out that ol' xp disk and have some good luck, that's an entirely useless gesture on Microsoft's behalf.

I'll keep fiddling around with different things, see if I can find a build that optimizes money while not sacrificing /too/ much on the essentials...

Any other comments will be happily read and taken into account, thank you again! ^_^

 

[A_belmont]

Alright folks, so I did a bit of snooping around, and I'm going to pitch this setup, add links for the parts that need links (windows 7 does not need a link, for example...)
I realize I'm probably going to hear a lot of flak for some parts in this rig, BUT this is supposed to be an economic system, though I will greatly appreciate and benefit from counter arguments, different product suggestions, and any reasoning as to why something I chose is bad, and why something else would be better for the same price (give or take 15 bucks)
($45 after promo )Case: Antec Illusion http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
($50 after promo) HDD: Seagate 1tb 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697
($60) ASrock motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157176
($225) XFX 2gig Radeon 6870 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150563
($20 after promo/MIR) 4 gigs Corsair RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145343
($40 after promo/MIR) 600W Corsair PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028
($120) AMD Phenom II x4 Black 3.2 x 4 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808
($20) Dvd Burner
($20) Pci express wifi
($100) Windows 7 home premium 64 bit
Grand total after shipping, promotions, MIR: $663.03

Let the commentary begin!
Also, thank you SO MUCH for any and all time you spend on this...

 

[Profumo]

PSU, the Antec HCG 620 linked above is a far superior unit

On platform.. if you really want to stick with AMD, wait till the 12'th of October when AMD will launch Bulldozer, some of the parts coming at pretty good prices.. again, AM3 at this point is a Bad option.

 

[A_belmont]

PSU, the Antec HCG 620 linked above is a far superior unit

On platform.. if you really want to stick with AMD, wait till the 12'th of October when AMD will launch Bulldozer, some of the parts coming at pretty good prices.. again, AM3 at this point is a Bad option.

I'm not trying to be combative, just trying to get my head around this stuff so I can make decisions that are both cost aware and tech aware.
Because the PSU I just linked was part of a combo with the CPU, the original price of $70 instantly becomes $53, With MIR that knock it down to $33, and a promo credit which reduces it to a final price of $22.50

Could you explain how the Antec PSU is superior over the Corsair? Is it really worth double the price if they both a)supply the computer with power and b)not fry the computer?

I think I'll be asking/reading through the AMD forums about bulldozer and AM3... my guess is 'decent' price still means outside the cost of a $750-$800 rig though.

 

[A_belmont]

You know, this thread at this point really belongs on the "general hardware" forum, as it's really straying away from the PSU discussion to..well...general hardware. If anyone has any PSU related insight here, please please please share it! Otherwise I think I'm going to start another thread where it's more appropriate to carry out the discussion.

 

[Profumo]

Could you explain how the Antec PSU is superior over the Corsair? Is it really worth double the price if they both a)supply the computer with power and b)not fry the computer?
.

The HCG uses a mainstream Seasonic platform(S12II Bronze), with superior performance and superior components while the Corsair CX uses a low end CWT platform(DSA) with inferior performance, components and specs.

The CX isn't even a true 600W unit as its 12v rail only outputs 480W(40A) while the HCG's 12v output is rated at 576(48A), so while the difference on paper seems to be only 20W, in reality is almost five times higher.

Either way, you're not getting it.. those DIY combo deals are there for a reason, and that's to sell stuff that won't sell otherwise
Being combative has nothing to do with all of this, you're simply not doing yourself any favors desperately trying to save a buck or two by going with this pretty poor combo solutions.

 

[A_belmont]

The HCG uses a mainstream Seasonic platform(S12II Bronze), with superior performance and superior components while the Corsair CX uses a low end CWT platform(DSA) with inferior performance, components and specs.

The CX isn't even a true 600W unit as its 12v rail only outputs 480W(40A) while the HCG's 12v output is rated at 576(48A), so while the difference on paper seems to be only 20W, in reality is almost five times higher.

Either way, you're not getting it.. those DIY combo deals are there for a reason, and that's to sell stuff that won't sell otherwise
Being combative has nothing to do with all of this, you're simply not doing yourself any favors desperately trying to save a buck or two by going with this pretty poor combo solutions.

Really I lack the technical knowledge to fully decipher things with Power supplies, hence my questioning here...
And yes, I do understand that combo deals are going to have parts that aren't always the best. I get that the HCG is made of better components, and is in fact a far better PSU, but what my question boils down to is will the CX do the trick? Or is it a true hazard? It has plenty of positive reviews, and even if it is a pile of junk in comparison to the HCG, on a budget is it worth $40 (5%) of the budget to spring for a different Power supply, or could that money be better spent on...for instance.... getting an intel over AM3?

I'm aware affordable doesn't always mean best... you pay for what you get. Will the HCG make the computer run better? More efficiently? What are the practical benefits of putting the HCG in this setup instead of the far cheaper CX?

 

[Profumo]

1. Yes the CX will do the job.
2. Benefits of the HCG over the CX start with longevity, followed by output quality, and by efficiency and so on and so forth.
3. Things you don't wanna' cut corners on in such a purchase: Motherboard(a solid platform is critical), PSU, VGA(the most expensive thing to replace in a true gaming system) and if possible CPU.
The rest(HDD, Case, RAM, etc) can be added/changed with little cost afterwards.

So, get the Biostar mobo I linked above(you can't do better in that budget), get the PSU, get a I5 2400(it has a 38x multiplier so at stock BCLK it will allow for 3.8Ghz clocks and that will put it miles above anything AMD has to offer at the moment), and if I were you I would go for that 560Ti because it has an excellent price and a very solid cooling solution(will allow for 950Mhz daily which will put it on par with a stock GTX 570). The rest is irrelevant, get what HDD/RAM/Case/ODD/etc you think you need to get the system together, it will cost you little money to replace/upgrade this stuff later on.
Your budget allows you to do all this without going for piss poor combo deals.