PSU problem or Video Card problem

GradyTheBadger

GradyTheBadger

n00b
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Mar 3, 2021
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My RX 570 4GB video card in the motherboard PCIE 3.0 X16 slot will only run with no problems if the PSU is toggled off then on before starting the PC. Once up and running, the PC will run for days with no issues, even over clocked. If the PSU is not toggled, the PC gives video error beep codes and a black screen.
However, an older GTX 550 TI or a GTX 660 runs perfectly in the same motherboard slot without any problem.
The PSU is a Corsair HX850 Platinum about 4 years old.
 
I'd list in as much detail as possible, all the components.

So, if you were to restart the machine (warm boot) it would be fine, but if you shut down the machine it throws errors on cold boot?
 
Libnok said:
I'd list in as much detail as possible, all the components.

So, if you were to restart the machine (warm boot) it would be fine, but if you shut down the machine it throws errors on cold boot?
Click to expand...
No I think what they're saying is the opposite. Cold booting is the only way to run with out rampant errors.
 
Tactlesss said:
No I think what they're saying is the opposite. Cold booting is the only way to run with out rampant errors.
Click to expand...
I would consider a cold boot to be the state in which the computer has power applied but not on, needing to press a power button on the front of the case but is otherwise 'ready'. In this instance, there needs to be complete power removal, hard off state at the power supply switch or from the wall I'd assume; no AC to DC voltage conversion activity.
 
Libnok said:
I would consider a cold boot to be the state in which the computer has power applied but not on, needing to press a power button on the front of the case but is otherwise 'ready'. In this instance, there needs to be complete power removal, hard off state at the power supply switch or from the wall I'd assume; no AC to DC voltage conversion activity.
Click to expand...
Okay fine the hard off state is what I mean. Regardless, those symptoms are awfully similar to what I have been experiencing lately.
 
GradyTheBadger said:
My RX 570 4GB video card in the motherboard PCIE 3.0 X16 slot will only run with no problems if the PSU is toggled off then on before starting the PC. Once up and running, the PC will run for days with no issues, even over clocked. If the PSU is not toggled, the PC gives video error beep codes and a black screen.
However, an older GTX 550 TI or a GTX 660 runs perfectly in the same motherboard slot without any problem.
The PSU is a Corsair HX850 Platinum about 4 years old.
Click to expand...
The PSU has to be powered off (I suspect to discharge its capacitors?). When it is powered off then it's circuitry allows a power okay signal to the CPU to allow a start (I think?). If the PC is just only shut off normally by a Windows shut down I suspect the PSU remains charged until it's power switch is toggled off.
What is perplexing is that this behavior only occurs with the Radeon RX 570. There is no problem with the other two video cards (Maybe because the RX570 has a much higher power need at startup?).
System specs:
Corsair HX850 Platinum (I just RMA'd to Corsair today)
Ryzen 7 2700X
Corsair 3000 Khz Memory (2 X 8GB)
Aorus X570 Elite MB
Aorus Radeon RX570 4GB (previously RMA'd to Gigabyte. They claimed the usual "no troubles found response").

Otherwise the PC runs great (always after the PSU toggle). No problems with 3DMark tests. No game problems.
 
GradyTheBadger said:
My RX 570 4GB video card in the motherboard PCIE 3.0 X16 slot will only run with no problems if the PSU is toggled off then on before starting the PC. Once up and running, the PC will run for days with no issues, even over clocked. If the PSU is not toggled, the PC gives video error beep codes and a black screen.
However, an older GTX 550 TI or a GTX 660 runs perfectly in the same motherboard slot without any problem.
The PSU is a Corsair HX850 Platinum about 4 years old.
Click to expand...
GradyTheBadger said:
The PSU has to be powered off (I suspect to discharge its capacitors?). When it is powered off then it's circuitry allows a power okay signal to the CPU to allow a start (I think?). If the PC is just only shut off normally by a Windows shut down I suspect the PSU remains charged until it's power switch is toggled off.
What is perplexing is that this behavior only occurs with the Radeon RX 570. There is no problem with the other two video cards (Maybe because the RX570 has a much higher power need at startup?).
System specs:
Corsair HX850 Platinum (I just RMA'd to Corsair today)
Ryzen 7 2700X
Corsair 3000 Mhz Memory (2 X 8GB)
Aorus X570 Elite MB
Aorus Radeon RX570 4GB (previously RMA'd to Gigabyte. They claimed the usual "no troubles found response").

Otherwise the PC runs great (always after the PSU toggle). No problems with 3DMark tests. No game problems.
Click to expand...
Memory is 3000 Khz. XMP settings run okay.
 
Well, I would makes sure that your BIOS is up to date, I see that they just issued a new BIOS recently at least for one of the revisions. Then, I would test the board with optimized default config in the BIOS, not running XMP. It may be some wake feature that is messing things up.
 
Libnok said:
Well, I would makes sure that your BIOS is up to date, I see that they just issued a new BIOS recently at least for one of the revisions. Then, I would test the board with optimized default config in the BIOS, not running XMP. It may be some wake feature that is messing things up.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. I've done all that, no change. Fortuantly Corsair has a 10 year warranty on the PSU. I'll see how things go when the RMA'd PSU is received.
 
GradyTheBadger said:
Thanks for your reply. I've done all that, no change. Fortuantly Corsair has a 10 year warranty on the PSU. I'll see how things go when the RMA'd PSU is received.
Click to expand...
It's good that they'd honor the RMA process but have you confirmed the issue is with the PSU with a known good working PSU?
 
If you tried it with a different GPU and the issue goes away, is there any doubt that the issue is with the GPU and not the PSU? I can't see how you concluded that the PSU is the problem here.
 
slavie said:
If you tried it with a different GPU and the issue goes away, is there any doubt that the issue is with the GPU and not the PSU? I can't see how you concluded that the PSU is the problem here.
Click to expand...
Considering the amount of information absent from the original post and the wind swept wasteland of a GPU market right now? How could they not want it to be something other than that?
 
Tactlesss said:
Considering the amount of information absent from the original post and the wind swept wasteland of a GPU market right now? How could they not want it to be something other than that?
Click to expand...
Sure, but that's still a waste of time and money on shipping the PSU out for RMA no matter how you look at it. Shipping the PSU isn't cheap, they're heavy. But whatevs, to each their own.
 
What is perplexing is that once the PSU is toggled off and back on, the PC starts up with no problem and no GPU problems. The other GPU's that were tested exhibited no problems, but they also were 10 year old models that had much lower power demands at startup than the RX 570.
The RX570 does work in the second Pcie slot with no start up problem without a PSU toggle, but this slot is only a 4X slot.
All three cards worked in the upper PCIE x16 slot with all 16 lanes running per CPU-Z. (i.e. the RX 570 also in the PCIE x16 slot after the PSU toggle).
I suspect that when Gigabyte checked the GPU and found "no troubles", they installed it into a completely cold machine which upon start up would not show a problem the first time.
The problem occurs after the PC is shut down from Windows and then restarted without toggling off the power supply. Gigabyte may not have duplicated this step. I've read that the "no troubles" reply is usually Gigabyte's reply to a first RMA.
The replacement power supply will be back this week so if the problem still occurs, then it looks like either the GPU or the MB.
From what I read, Gigabyte usually needs two RMA returns before they actually make a detailed diagnostic. I also read that Gigabyte picks up the cost for the 2nd RMA.
 
GradyTheBadger said:
What is perplexing is that once the PSU is toggled off and back on, the PC starts up with no problem and no GPU problems. The other GPU's that were tested exhibited no problems, but they also were 10 year old models that had much lower power demands at startup than the RX 570.
The RX570 does work in the second Pcie slot with no start up problem without a PSU toggle, but this slot is only a 4X slot.
All three cards worked in the upper PCIE x16 slot with all 16 lanes running per CPU-Z. (i.e. the RX 570 also in the PCIE x16 slot after the PSU toggle).
I suspect that when Gigabyte checked the GPU and found "no troubles", they installed it into a completely cold machine which upon start up would not show a problem the first time.
The problem occurs after the PC is shut down from Windows and then restarted without toggling off the power supply. Gigabyte may not have duplicated this step. I've read that the "no troubles" reply is usually Gigabyte's reply to a first RMA.
The replacement power supply will be back this week so if the problem still occurs, then it looks like either the GPU or the MB.
From what I read, Gigabyte usually needs two RMA returns before they actually make a detailed diagnostic. I also read that Gigabyte picks up the cost for the 2nd RMA.
Click to expand...
The Problem Is Solved (Sort Of)

Replaced PSU today.
Started PC from cold start. No Problems. No memory error beep codes, no GPU error codes.
Shut down PC from Windows. Re-started. Problem returned, requiring PSU to be switched off then back on to restart PC.

Eventually I went into BIOS and eventually changed ErP to enabled.

Shut down PC from Windows.
Restarted PC and....... PROBLEM GONE! Repeated shut down and re-start a dozen times and no problem.

With the previous PSU, switching ErP on and off had no effect, which it does now have with the new PSU.

It appears the normal standby power level interferes with the Power Good signal, while the lower ErP level (or switching PSU off) does not.

This is the best the PC has operated since it was built almost 3 months ago.

Suspect something possible flaky with the Motherboard / Bios? Bios is F32, Gigabyte Aorus x570 Elite.
 
try using a SATA power adapter to PCIE on the RX570
i own 2 hx850 power supplies and have used them in several builds as well as mining. i think i know why it does that, and if so, the adapter may fix the issue.
 
Zedicus said:
try using a SATA power adapter to PCIE on the RX570
i own 2 hx850 power supplies and have used them in several builds as well as mining. i think i know why it does that, and if so, the adapter may fix the issue.
Click to expand...
I am not following why an adapter would be used? The Radeon RX570 Aorus 4GB has an eight pin power connector which I am connecting to a 6+2 PCIE connection on the HX850 PSU.
 
you mention the old gtx cards do not have the issue. it has to do with how the sense pins are triggered. it is a combination of mainboard and videocard bios issues (that you have partially discovered) and how the power supply is responding.

Grfx 8pin Sense.png

cheap adapters just dead end all the sense wires together, which is fine. i had a mining rig with an hx850 that i had to plug the pcie risers into the PSU PCIE headers, and run the GPUs off adapters, then it powered and rebooted fine. i always mine on AMD cards, so it is likely they were some sort of RX 4xx or RX 5xx cards that i had the issue with.
 
Zedicus said:
you mention the old gtx cards do not have the issue. it has to do with how the sense pins are triggered. it is a combination of mainboard and videocard bios issues (that you have partially discovered) and how the power supply is responding.

View attachment 341445

cheap adapters just dead end all the sense wires together, which is fine. i had a mining rig with an hx850 that i had to plug the pcie risers into the PSU PCIE headers, and run the GPUs off adapters, then it powered and rebooted fine. i always mine on AMD cards, so it is likely they were some sort of RX 4xx or RX 5xx cards that i had the issue with.
Click to expand...
Okay, I think I am getting the picture now. The GTX cards had the 6 pin PCIE power connector which do not have the Sense1 pin.
So it looks like a 6 pin SATA to 8 Pin PCIE power adaptor should be tried?

I noticed that on for the cables that came with the PSU, at the PSU header there are 8 pins, whereas at the PCIE end (6+2) there are only 7 pins actually wired,
which looks like there is no wire for the the 12v pin 1 (not certain). (See Attachment)

Thanks for your review.
 

Attachments

  • HX850Cable.pdf
    109.1 KB · Views: 0
correct the hx850 uses 1 of 2 sense pins.
between the slight variations in how an MB, VC, and PSU all handle the 'sense' across the line, something does not jive. This could be electronics in the PSU, or activation routines in the BIOS on the VC or MB. And i have never seen this issue happen with any nvidia cards, and only a small handful of times with AMD card. really i do not think it is worth the effort to trouble shoot beyond trying the adapters. swapping any 1 of the items in the series with a different make usually resolves the issue entirely, or if the ghetto adapter fix works, and you don't mind running the ghetto adapter fix full time, there's always that option.
 
Zedicus said:
correct the hx850 uses 1 of 2 sense pins.
between the slight variations in how an MB, VC, and PSU all handle the 'sense' across the line, something does not jive. This could be electronics in the PSU, or activation routines in the BIOS on the VC or MB. And i have never seen this issue happen with any nvidia cards, and only a small handful of times with AMD card. really i do not think it is worth the effort to trouble shoot beyond trying the adapters. swapping any 1 of the items in the series with a different make usually resolves the issue entirely, or if the ghetto adapter fix works, and you don't mind running the ghetto adapter fix full time, there's always that option.
Click to expand...
Tried an additional BIOS change.
Went to "AC BACK" setting and changed from "ALWAYS OFF" to "MEMORY".
Disabled ErP.

Continued restart into Windows from BIOS.
Shut down PC from Windows.
Restarted PC from Power Switch, same post error, flipped PSU off.
However this time when the PSU was flipped back on the PC immediately booted up without being turned on from the power switch and with no problems.

Back in BIOS, changed "AC BACK" setting to "ALWAYS ON".
Same result.

Not sure if any conclusion to draw.
 
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