PSU problem, and what UPS should I get?

[JCDenton]

I've decided to break down and spend some money to protect my system. About a week ago I had a power outage while my system was pulling a fairly heavy load gaming. After that it would start hard locking after 30 minutes to an hour of gaming, and upon the first reboot after a lockup the 5970 would not show up in device manager at all(not even as an unrecognized device), although the 5870 that all the output cables are connected to works fine. The 5970 would always show up on the second boot after a lockup though. The lockups only stopped when I took 200mhz off my cpu overclock and 50mhz off the GPUs, but the CPU/GPUs would work fine at the original, higher clocks if I took one GPU out of the system. Also, I never got lockups at the higher clocks playing GTA IV, which only stresses 2 GPUs instead of all 3. So, I think the power outage may have damaged the PSU a bit since I was already running it pretty hard (I'm sure the system probably drew 800 watts at least). So first, I just want to make sure: does this sound like a PSU problem and do I need to replace the unit?

Second, I want to make sure this doesn't happen again, so what UPS should I get? Or do I even need a UPS? I don't care about losing data/work during a shutdown, I just want to make sure the hardware is protected. I was plugged into a crappy surge protector/power strip before and obviously that's not enough to do the job. Money is a bit tight so I need to get a good deal, but I'll spend what I need to to protect the system. I was thinking about this one, but from reading around a bit it seems like a simulated sine wave (whatever that is) will mess with the PFC on my power supply.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...02048&cm_re=ups_1500va-_-42-102-048-_-Product

Any suggestions on a more suitable UPS appreciated, or if a power conditioner would be more suitable to my needs since I don't have work that needs saving I'll consider that too.

 

[iride4u]

While UPSs are great for protecting data in normal computers, they can cause problems with gaming or benching computers. I would recomend a high quality surge suppresser over a UPS. I have had too many problems with UPSs that do not have a high enough power rating. You can get UPSs in as high a power as you want but the cost will get very high very fast.

 

[eddieck]

While UPSs are great for protecting data in normal computers, they can cause problems with gaming or benching computers.

Excuse me? If you get a UPS with the same rated capacity as your power supply, plus a little more, you shouldn't have any problems.

I paid $400 for a 500W/750VA APC Smart-UPS two years ago. It's $270 now. I'm actually using that unit right now. Haven't had to replace the battery, and it's been rock solid. If you can live within 500W and can afford the price tag I highly recommend that unit. It's also fanless, and makes almost no noise - only a slight coil whine can be heard if you put your ear up to it (and I am very sensitive to noise). APC makes higher wattage units in the Smart-UPS line that are all true sine wave output units, although I can't vouch for them.

You didn't mention an actual budget but you did say you had a tight budget, so your next best option would indeed be a surge protector. Remember, no-name surge protectors = bad. Apparently, surge protectors will continue functioning even after their surge protection capability isn't functional. Decent protectors will have an indicator to tell you when to replace them. I've always had good luck with APC products so I'd recommend those. I'd suggest this one for $40 shipped at Newegg. Of course, there are other brands that are decent and possibly cost less; I can only speak from personal experience though.

Also, if you get a UPS make sure it's a high enough wattage. UPSs are typically advertised in VA, and for instance my unit is 750VA but only 500W. Don't mistake VA for watts.

 

[Zero82z]

Keep in mind, though, most modern PSUs these days feature active PFC, and so a UPS that outputs a true sine wave is required.

That is not correct. Simulated/stepped sine wave UPSes work fine with APFC PSUs.

 

[eddieck]

That is not correct. Simulated/stepped sine wave UPSes work fine with APFC PSUs.

Thanks for the correction. Seems it works in most cases, although there have been some problems reported from a quick Google search. I'll update my post. I would still prefer the true sine wave output, and wouldn't bother investing in a UPS without it.

 

[Zero82z]

Thanks for the correction. Seems it works in most cases, although there have been some problems reported from a quick Google search. I'll update my post. I would still prefer the true sine wave output, and wouldn't bother investing in a UPS without it.

UPSes are not meant to supply battery power for periods longer than a few minutes at a time. Considering how rarely it will actually be running on battery power in general, there's really no significant advantage to having a true sine wave unit as far as computers are concerned.

 

[JCDenton]

You didn't mention an actual budget but you did say you had a tight budget, so your next best option would indeed be a surge protector. Remember, no-name surge protectors = bad. Apparently, surge protectors will continue functioning even after their surge protection capability isn't functional. Decent protectors will have an indicator to tell you when to replace them. I've always had good luck with APC products so I'd recommend those. I'd suggest this one for $40 shipped at Newegg. Of course, there are other brands that are decent and possibly cost less; I can only speak from personal experience though.

I'd like to stay under $200 but could go over. It seems like UPS get really expensive, really fast. I'm guessing I'll need a 1500va unit that can do 900 watts minimum. Long term I plan to have two of Nvidia's best cards and I'm sure the new ones will pull a ton of power.

Will a surge protector do enough to protect the equipment? Like I said I don't care about the data all that much, but I don't want power outages/surges damaging my stuff. Will equipment typically get damaged by an outage during gaming if you have a top quality surge protector? The one I had was just some POS phillips I got at Target for $15. Basically I'm just a bit confused as to if the damage typically comes from the surge, or if it comes from the hard shutdown.

 

[drescherjm]

I'd like to stay under $200 but could go over. It seems like UPS get really expensive, really fast.

Get a used APC unit on eBay. I bought a Smart UPS 1400 XL for $185 shipped with new batteries. Sure it has cosmetic damage (scratches). And this is a very good quality UPS and supposedly it gives me a 2 hour runtime at idle. Have not tested that long yet.

Something like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-Smart-UPS-1...QcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_UPS?hash=item2c5280d602

 

[Legolas]

My Corsair HX1000W says 10 amps and I can't find any UPSes for under several hundred dollars. The Corsair died a month after I put my XFX5870 in. It drove me crazy as it didn't go out completely. I put 2 Antec 500W PSUs in and the system feels like it gained 10% performance. Maybe the Corsair was crap from the get go. One thing for sure, it is running better than ever and I may use dual PSUs from now on! One for the mobo. One for the video card (wife says my 5870 is a computer by its self) and drives.

 

[drescherjm]

A power supply should have no effect at all on performance. Stability definitely but performance no.

 

[JCDenton]

Get a used APC unit on eBay. I bought a Smart UPS 1400 XL for $185 shipped with new batteries. Sure it has cosmetic damage (scratches). And this is a very good quality UPS and supposedly it gives me a 2 hour runtime at idle. Have not tested that long yet.

Something like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-Smart-UPS-1...QcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_UPS?hash=item2c5280d602

Refurbished, or used with new batteries? After live cashback this one would only be $165 shipped. Any thoughts on how important a warranty is?

http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-SU1400NET-S...QcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_UPS?hash=item439c75bf84

 

[drescherjm]

Normally they come refirbrished with brand new batteries. Ask the seller. I did not look too closely with the example I posted however.

For me I was looking (for months last year) into a CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series GreenPower UPS CP1500AVRLCD 1500VA 900W 8 Outlets UPS - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...02048&cm_re=cyberpower-_-42-102-048-_-Product

but after some eBay searching I found that much better units can be had for around $20 if I accept a refirb.

I got mine with new batteries. Also this was not the seller I got mine from.

 

[drescherjm]

Any thoughts on how important a warranty is?

At home I have a powercomm 1000VA UPS from the 1990s. At work I have a 1/2 dozen of APCs Smart UPS 1000VA models from 2000 or 2001. We also have a few other Cyberpower 1800VA, Tripp Lite (1500VA) and powercomm (900VA to 1500VA). In total I have never needed to use a warranty on on any of these 20+ UPSs.

 

[lightp2]

@JCDenton,

others give you good advice.

The following is just a reminder. If you are going to spend good money for UPS

1. Make sure you have the interface cable (connect UPS to Computer) if you planned to configure to shutdown automatically without human intervention. This is usually critical for 24x7 server. If you always physically attend to the computer at all hours and shutdown when you are not around, then it is less of a problem. APC uses slightly modified serial and usb cable I think.

2. If you purchased refurbished units with new batteries, usually they should prepare the batteries properly for you. If you wanted to do it yourself, remember this preparation covers one or two charge/discharge/recharge cycle for tuning under very specific condition to make sure APC Smart-UPS is in optimal condition. APC website has all the detail. Some very old units may have issue returning to this ideal condition. However, it is correct to say usually only IT admin will cater to such detail to support potentially 10s or 100s of servers so every detail counts. For home user generic handling should be fine.

3. Item 2 is the critical point. All UPS, especially expensive ones eventually need to deal with battery and tuning. There are extensive info on APC. Under good care, Smart-UPS can offer you long term protection with minimal issue. Try to buy newer model refurbished units.

4. You can find your estimated runtime on APC website. Take note figures are for new UPS as shipped from APC or existing UPS optimally tuned after replacing batteries. Why is this a concern? Since your specification is very close to the maximum for 1500VA model, if the used unit is not properly tuned and you configure UPS for automatic shutdown, Upon power-cut, the UPS may initiate shutdown immediately thinking it does not have enough charge to sustain for long runtime. This is a slightly complicated scenario but may apply to your case due to your high wattage usage.

 

[drescherjm]

Make sure you have the interface cable (connect UPS to Computer)

Good point. My $185 1400XL refirb unit did not come with a cable but I found the diagram online and modded a serial cable I had at work.

 

[JCDenton]

I ended up getting this one:

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500

Came out to around $160 shipped for a <1 yr old unit still under original warranty. It seems to have a bit of room to spare with a 5970+5870 at 875/1200.

General gaming shows 2 bars usage (33%) with just the 5970, or 3 bars (50%) with 5970+5870. Furmark will add on one bar, and furmark + simulataneous linpack will add 1-2 bars. So this is able to power my system + a 30 inch monitor very comfortably for normal use, and can even handle the power drawn by simultaneous torture tests although that comes closer to maxing it. Hopefully it can handle 2x fermi.