PSU for the future...

[GoldenTiger]

Kind of a rant, with a lot of questions... but I think these are ones that a lot may be wondering on these forums, especially with so many new and revised technologies coming soon.

What exactly should one buy now if they want a PSU that will be good in the future? Current 20-pin ones that I already own won't work well for overclocking on an A64, so I was looking at a PCP&C SLI 510w, but then I read that the industry may be changing over to an 8-pin auxillary connector and keeping the 24-pin main. The only PSU designed for this, it seems, is a $400 PCP&C custom-made unit that provides something like 800w of juice. So, what exactly does someone do now? Do they try to get a PCP&C 510w SLI model and have the company mod on an 8-pin connector?

Then, however, does the 8-pin connector work with the current 4-pin auxillary connector by just plugging half of it in? If so, would it have enough juice for tomorrow's high-end PCI Express setups, or will the amount of power, number of 12v rails, etc. be too low? What then of dual core systems? Would 510w be paltry for this application, too, or would it take care of the system properly? Does PCP&C even offer an 8-pin custom-build option for their 510W SLI-Express units? If so, how much roughly extra as a guess would it cost? Finally, can you plug a 24-pin PSU with just 20 of its pins into a current 20-pin board (I think so, seeing as how a 24-pin board can technically be run off of a 20-pin unit by plugging it into the socket and leaving 4 pins unplugged)?

 

[Ice Czar]

youd simply order the SLi or Express as an EPS12V to get the 8 pin
the 510 in my sig is an EPS12V designate
(w\ a 6 pin AGP Pro adapter as well, same connector as a PCI-E video, but different rails attached)
all the 510's would still be a single +12V rail though, thus not "true" EPS12V's
which require 3 to 4 +12V rails (like the 850ETX)

as far as does it have the power for the future
depends, dual cores arent double the CPU draw, maybe an extra amp or 2 is all
on the other hand PCI-E doubled per card from 6.25A to 12.5A
so if you get dual 150W PCI-E SLi's, thats 25A right there
add in alot of drives and yes you need the 850ETX

if on the other hand your running a gaming rig with only a few drives, a dual core and a single PCI-E 150W card of the future, the 510 is still relevant

an yes I have a 2U 24 pin + 8 pin EPS12V supply running a Celeron Shuttle 20 + 4 pin antique right now
just let the pins hang off (there does need to be clearence)

 

[EnderW]

I was typing this out last night and fell asleep. Looks like Ice Czar beat me to most of your questions, but since I already typed most of this out, I want to get a little credit

a lot of questions

you got that right, I'll do my best

What exactly should one buy now if they want a PSU that will be good in the future?

You definitely want a 24 pin ATX connector and it may be a good idea to get a 8 pin auxillary +12V also, if you can find a PSU with one.

Depending on what upgrade path you intend to take, you may not need the 8 pin aux for a while since AMD says the dual core A64 chips will work with current S939 boards with only a BIOS flash.
Intel on the other hand has said their dual core chips will NOT work with current 915 and 925 boards and will require an upgrade to a 955 board which has a 8 pin aux connection
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=865804&page=1&pp=20

So, what exactly does someone do now? Do they try to get a PCP&C 510w SLI model and have the company mod on an 8-pin connector?

Again depends on what you want to do. The 850W would, of course, be more future proof since it has four +12V rails and would be able to handle a SLI setup with the new PCI-E spec of 150W (12.5A +12V) per card. However, if you aren't planning to go SLI, the 510W should beefy enough for all but the most extreme systems for a good while.

KThen, however, does the 8-pin connector work with the current 4-pin auxillary connector by just plugging half of it in?

Yes, but a lot of motherboards have the +12V aux connection crammed in pretty tight anyway and the simple matter of size may be an issue.

I would think you could have both a 4 pin and 8 pin aux connection on the same PSU even though they share some of same connections, you wouldn't ever be using both at the same time.

If so, would it have enough juice for tomorrow's high-end PCI Express setups, or will the amount of power, number of 12v rails, etc. be too low?

Well, like Ice Czar said, they have doubled the PCI-E spec to 150W (12.5A +12V) per card, so 2 of those is 25A +12V right there. If you have a lot of hard drives or other +12V hungry devices, you'll likely need something like the 850W.

What then of dual core systems? Would 510w be paltry for this application, too, or would it take care of the system properly?

If the Intel dual core chips are any indication, the power draw isn't going to be much greater.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzU2

Does PCP&C even offer an 8-pin custom-build option for their 510W SLI-Express units? If so, how much roughly extra as a guess would it cost?

Yes, they'll build pretty much anything you can think up. As far as pricing, I don't know, just e-mail them, I'm sure they will quote you a price.

Finally, can you plug a 24-pin PSU with just 20 of its pins into a current 20-pin board (I think so, seeing as how a 24-pin board can technically be run off of a 20-pin unit by plugging it into the socket and leaving 4 pins unplugged)?

Yes, the only thing to consider here is that sometimes the overhanging clip on the plug doesn't line up with the one on the motherboard and you have a less then secure connection.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Thanks for the help... was a bit confused (and slightly annoyed) . One final question, somewhat unrelated: Would a Fortron Blue Storm 500w, since it lacks a -5v rail, work OK for overclocking a Venice/Radeon X800XL/1hdd/1dvdrw/2gb 4x512mb UTT/DFI Nforce4 Ultra-D rig? I don't plan on going SLI until the point where it is either absolutely required, or very cost-effective.

EDIT: Fiddling with the wattage calc linked in the sticky... not exactly sure how an X800XL compares in power usage to the 9700pro they have data for though.

 

[adama0]

I've had the same general questions as you, GT, was nice to get these answers. And I'd also been considering the PC&C 510 SLI, with the same concern about possibly wanting an 8-pin aux connector for the future.

That said, reading around a bit more (on HF and on AnandTech), I think I really like the Seasonic S12-600 as a solution. It's got the 8-pin aux connector against future need, and has one separate 6-pin PCI-E connector, at any rate -- I gather the PC&C SLI has two, but if I go SLI in future, I figure I could use the molex 4-pin adapters in that case without too much of an issue.

Anyway, another option for you. I am curious what thoughts Ice Czar and EnderW have re the S12-600 with respect to your questions, since based on other posts they seem to know a lot about PSUs. You guys think the S12-600 is a good upgrade bet? Seems to me to cover most of the bases (even for SLI), and the quiet-ness and efficiency are a nice bonus (not to mention cheaper! than the PC&C, I mean).

 

[Ice Czar]

S12-600 is a damn fine supply

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=106
exceeds spec in many regards

hard to beat the PCP&C though when it comes to the quality of the power
but then the question really is do you need it

as far as amp figures for the X800XL
PCI-E simply 6.25A on the +12V (75W)

it might be a little lower than that the AGP X800XT comes on at 63>65W
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-powercons.html

 

[EnderW]

I've had the same general questions as you, GT, was nice to get these answers. And I'd also been considering the PC&C 510 SLI, with the same concern about possibly wanting an 8-pin aux connector for the future.

That said, reading around a bit more (on HF and on AnandTech), I think I really like the Seasonic S12-600 as a solution. It's got the 8-pin aux connector against future need, and has one separate 6-pin PCI-E connector, at any rate -- I gather the PC&C SLI has two, but if I go SLI in future, I figure I could use the molex 4-pin adapters in that case without too much of an issue.

Anyway, another option for you. I am curious what thoughts Ice Czar and EnderW have re the S12-600 with respect to your questions, since based on other posts they seem to know a lot about PSUs. You guys think the S12-600 is a good upgrade bet? Seems to me to cover most of the bases (even for SLI), and the quiet-ness and efficiency are a nice bonus (not to mention cheaper! than the PC&C, I mean).

The S12-600 looks pretty nice. Would definitely be quieter and cheaper then the PCP&C. Don't expect 1% rail regulation, but it's still a very good supply.

 

[adama0]

As far as Seasonic and upgrade compatibility goes -- also just came across this: http://www.seasonic.com/new/twevent20050401.htm

Looks like these SS models have the dual PCI-E 6-pin connectors and the 8-pin mobo connector. Not sure how they compare with the S12 models in other respects (and haven't looked for any reviews yet), but I will be looking. I expect I will choose either one of these or the S12.

 

[adama0]

Make that SS-500/600HT models -- I still can't tell exactly if they are different from the S12, really, may be the S12 with an extra PCI-E 6-pin connector. Or it might be a US/Europe/Asia thing. Guess it'll become clear soon enough...

 

[Ice Czar]

nice catch I hadnt seen those

 

[adama0]

Ok, here's a UK site selling the SS-500/600HT models that confirms that a) they have 2 PCI-E 6-pin connectors, and b) that they are the OEM version of the retail S12: http://www.koolnquiet.co.uk/

I've seen that same OEM/retail explanation of those models elsewhere also. *But*, when I see accounts of the S12-600/500, the PCPer review, etc., they all indicate one PCI-E connector, not two. Plus there is that press release I linked above that was put out just two days ago, announcing the "SLI-friendly" angle on the SS-600HT. So I am guessing that Seasonic realized it was a good marketing idea to add on the extra connector and have recently done it for the SS-600/500HT; it presumably will make its way to the retail S12 also, but apparently hasn't yet (the above retailer also mentions getting these HT models in stock this week, which would seem to fit my speculations timingwise...).

Well, I am not sure if I am going SLI, but if I do get an SLI board, I will probably hold out for one of these versions with the double PCI-E connectors.