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PSU fan = dead

S

sn2op

Gawd
Joined
Mar 31, 2001
Messages
685
I need some advice....

I've been having some stability problems with my new PNY GF 6800NU. My system is perfectly fine as long as I don't play 3D games (kinda defeats the purpose). I can try and benchmark w/3Dmark2005 but sometimes i'll get a reboot or a lockup after a while. Anyway, I was troubleshooting when I noticed that my back PSU fan on my 430W Enermax is dead. The clear 120mm inside blowing through the PSU still works.

2 questions:
1). Could this be the cause of my stability problems?
2). Should I attempt to replace the fan or just buy a new PSU?

Thanks in advance.
 
sn2op said:
I need some advice....

I've been having some stability problems with my new PNY GF 6800NU. My system is perfectly fine as long as I don't play 3D games (kinda defeats the purpose). I can try and benchmark w/3Dmark2005 but sometimes i'll get a reboot or a lockup after a while. Anyway, I was troubleshooting when I noticed that my back PSU fan on my 430W Enermax is dead. The clear 120mm inside blowing through the PSU still works.

2 questions:
1). Could this be the cause of my stability problems?
2). Should I attempt to replace the fan or just buy a new PSU?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I had same problem. You HAVE to hook up the fan power plug LOL. I thought it was just rpm monitoring, but I was wrong.
 
sn2op said:
I need some advice....

I've been having some stability problems with my new PNY GF 6800NU. My system is perfectly fine as long as I don't play 3D games (kinda defeats the purpose). I can try and benchmark w/3Dmark2005 but sometimes i'll get a reboot or a lockup after a while. Anyway, I was troubleshooting when I noticed that my back PSU fan on my 430W Enermax is dead. The clear 120mm inside blowing through the PSU still works.

2 questions:
1). Could this be the cause of my stability problems?
2). Should I attempt to replace the fan or just buy a new PSU?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


3). Get enermax to honor it's warranty?

if 3 is not an option..

then 1.) Yes
2.) Replace if you know what you are doing, its not hard, as most psu fans, believe it or not, are regular fans that are "tailless" -- I.e. you can take an 80x80x25 delta and pull its 3 pin header off, and solder it into the psu..

but.. 3.) Is definately my first recommendation
 
computerpro3 said:
I had same problem. You HAVE to hook up the fan power plug LOL. I thought it was just rpm monitoring, but I was wrong.
Click to expand...

oh it's hooked up, no doubt about that.... i thought the monitoring was only for the inside 120
 
Laforge said:
3). Get enermax to honor it's warranty?

if 3 is not an option..

then 1.) Yes
2.) Replace if you know what you are doing, its not hard, as most psu fans, believe it or not, are regular fans that are "tailless" -- I.e. you can take an 80x80x25 delta and pull its 3 pin header off, and solder it into the psu..

but.. 3.) Is definately my first recommendation
Click to expand...

I've had this thing for about 3 years so it's out of warranty according to this site:

http://www.maxpoint.com/warranty/3year.htm
6. Enermax Power Supply purchase before the inception of this warranty program which is December 1, 2003. All Enermax power supply purchase before December 1, 2003 will receive a one (1) year warranty with otherwise the same terms and
conditions.

Guess i'm out of luck on this one. Maybe i'll crack open this baby myself. Do I need to make sure the replacement fan is rated exactly the same as the old one?
 
Why not take a voltmeter and get some readings first. Run your numbers using the calculator in the sticky section.

With out that it’s all a guess
 
BillR said:
Why not take a voltmeter and get some readings first. Run your numbers using the calculator in the sticky section.

With out that it’s all a guess
Click to expand...

how exactly would I go about doing this? Sorry, not too familiar w/the electrical stuff. Replacing the fan I can do.... but I don't know what readings i'm looking for w/the voltmeter.
 
sn2op said:
I've had this thing for about 3 years so it's out of warranty according to this site:

http://www.maxpoint.com/warranty/3year.htm
6. Enermax Power Supply purchase before the inception of this warranty program which is December 1, 2003. All Enermax power supply purchase before December 1, 2003 will receive a one (1) year warranty with otherwise the same terms and
conditions.

Guess i'm out of luck on this one. Maybe i'll crack open this baby myself. Do I need to make sure the replacement fan is rated exactly the same as the old one?
Click to expand...


You don't have to make sure it's cfms are the same, but it's power draw should be. (5v or 3.3v most likely) and it's physical dimensions should match.. You can put a "faster" flow fan if you want, but the *best* thing would be to make sure it's as close to the original as possible.
 
Laforge said:
You can put a "faster" flow fan if you want,
Click to expand...

Higher CFM and or Static Pressure often reflected as a higher rpm but not always

a few :p links

Ice Czar said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is a great thread about ducting for a PSU
> http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8450
and some thermodynamics\aerodynamics infor
Ice Czar said:
Lee Garbutt did a push>pull fan mod on a Turbo Cool 425
http://web.archive.org/web/20040212035712/http://www.leesspace.com/quiet_psu.htm
(archived so photos are now gone)
and this thread at spcr can give you lots of ideas about ducting (again)

but do to the design of the heatsinks and the density of the component package
as mentioned above, I wouldnt do the top fan mod on a Turbo Cool

boning up on Fans might be helpful as well
its not just the airflow that is important, but the static pressure
a supply with a greater resistance will benefit from a higher static pressure



Air Flow Vs. Pressure Characteristics
Parallel & Series Operation
Stall of Axial Flow Fans

Basic Fan Laws
How to measure Airflow vs Pressure
How to Achieve Low Noise
Accoustic Noise
EMI
Introduction: Forced Convection Cooling
How to select the right fan or blower
Step 1: The Total Cooling Requirements
Step 2: Total System Resistance / System Characteristic Curve
Step 3: System Operating Point
Click to expand...

here are three basic components to any thermal solution:
the heat transfer interface
(in this case the heatsinks total area)

the heat transfer medium's volume\pressure to time
(in this case airflow, with additional variables like airflow resistance)

and the temperature differential
(where using cooler air has a huge impact)
while the efficiency of a given supply at a given load will determine the high side of a temperature differential, by employing a cooler airstream you have the option to lower the lower side of the differential

a real good computer oriented guide to thermodynamics
General Heat Transfer Guide

Heat transfer is all about temperature differentials. Conduction through materials and convection away from surfaces is proportional to the temperature differential that exists. Basically the thermal resistance of a given solution changes with the temperature differential, which is why thermal solutions are rated in °C/W which leaves that variable ambient open but gives you a formula

The heat transfer through the wall follows a simple equation:
Q=k/L(T1-T2)


We can draw some interesting conclusions from this equation. First, heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference on the object. If the temperature differential doubles, the heat transferred doubles. Second, the conduction coefficient "k" is proportional to heat transfer. If the conduction coefficient doubles, the heat transfer doubles Alternatively, for the same differential temperature, twice as much heat may be transferred. The final observation is "L". As thickness increases, heat transfer decreases. Alternatively, to maintain the same heat transfer through a material twice as thick requires twice the temperature differential.
Click to expand...

while that addresses conductance, there is a corrallary for convection (transfer from the heatsink to a fluid (air\water\ect)
its known as Newton's Law of Cooling

your pretty much stuck with the heatsink a supply has, but altering the airflow isnt the only tool left to you
a few simple mods and that supply will increase its range, edit > or you can use less airflow and thus quiter fans for the same capacity\temperature
the main objective being not to draw the hot air from the heatsink through the supply and getting it its own cool airstream, you do of course still need to exhaust the case ;)


I would mention that its only under truely adverse conmditions youd likely have a problem, and that, any alterations you do to the case could be likely used for the next upgrade and are infrastructure investments of both time and $$$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
 
Ice Czar said:
Higher CFM and or Static Pressure often reflected as a higher rpm but not always

a few :p links
Click to expand...


I can't tell if you are calling me wrong, or elaborating in agreement on what I said? :)

Are dem fightin' words? :mad:
 
Don't bother soldering the tails of the fan into the PSU. Here's what you do and what I did to my 420 watt Turbo PSU (no longer in use). Slice and dice open your psu, your warranty is blown anyway. Do something to remove the charge still held in the psu. I had Antec USB LEDs that drained the mobo and PSU of any leftover charge in 3 seconds by drawing power from the USB ports (the mobo USB ports, mind you) in an attempt to keep themselves on. After you know you won't be electricuted, move towards the dead 80mm fan and unscrew it from the backplate of the PSU. Take a look at the brand and make of the fan (brushless, ball bearing, etc. etc.) and see if you don't have a match lying around. If you do, great. If not, order one, or simply find another reasonably close match lying around and take off it's 3 pin header. It must be a 3 pin tail, no molex stuff allowed. With the 3 pin header removed, figure out which line is the ground on both the dead and new fan and proceed to plug in the new fan exactly as the old one was. If the new fan's tails won't stay in their spots, scotch tape them down (trust me, it works, even if it sounds dumb). After this, rescrew the PSU's top plate back on and you're in buisness. Plug your stuff back in and fire away. If this doesn't solve your problem, it's time to buy a new PSU. But at least the fan will spin.


Good luck, and I take absolutely no responsibility for whatever happens to you or your stuff if you mess with your PSU (though mine worked flawlessly, except it was a crap PSU to begin with, so I guess flawless is relative).
 
yeah i'm a little nervous about messing w/the insides of a PSU, so i've ordered a NeoPower 480 which i'm hoping fixes my problem.... i might still mess around w/this one so I can use it in another system that demands less of it
 
TheLonelySwedish said:
...snip...f the new fan's tails won't stay in their spots, scotch tape them down (trust me, it works, even if it sounds dumb). ...snip...
Click to expand...

So, basically, you are telling the guy to use scotch tape (made out of very thin, very meltable, plastic) to hold down wires instead of SOLDER to hold down wires..

Yes, you are right

TheLonelySwedish said:
...even if it sounds dumb
Click to expand...

That it does
 
sn2op said:
yeah i'm a little nervous about messing w/the insides of a PSU, so i've ordered a NeoPower 480 which i'm hoping fixes my problem.... i might still mess around w/this one so I can use it in another system that demands less of it
Click to expand...

There you go..
 
Changing a fan in a PSU is no biggie, done it many a times..

Few simple rules..

Be careful what you touch
Dont tape, use solder and heatshrink tube.
When your done, make sure the wires are not making contact with any heatsinks or that they can get caught in the fan blades..
 
Laforge said:
I can't tell if you are calling me wrong, or elaborating in agreement on what I said? :)

Are dem fightin' words? :mad:
Click to expand...

no, fighting words are more like....
"Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you
I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!"
:p


was just elaborating the variables
objective being to maintain or increases the cooling capacity, while hopefully decreasing the sound level ;)
 
duh, it is plugged in (i've tried more than one fan header).... someone already suggested that
 
hey, that wasnt* directed toward you :) that was a question :/ i have the same psu as you and in the manual it says to plug it in pwrfan, and i have no header like this :/
 
oh i see, i misunderstood.... you can plug it into any of the system fan headers (even CPU headers if needed)
 
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