PSP Emulators

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fuzzy34

Am I Really Still [H]ere?
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
958
I think I had seen a thread about this already, but what systems might the psp be able to emulate? i'd love to play a game of REZ on my psp.. :D
 
ABLE to emulate? at the least snes/nes/gba. MAYBE n64, who knows. But the real question is can it emulate, is there a way to get homebrew code to run on it. I hope there is, I'd love an snes emulator :)
 
if they can do a Sega Genisis emulator on teh PS1, they can do a SNES emulator for teh PSP :D
 
rayg said:
But the real question is can it emulate, is there a way to get homebrew code to run on it. I hope there is, I'd love an snes emulator :)
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If it can't run unsigned code, how did they get a web browser and IRC on it? A lot of modded Xbox software is made with a dev kit but the code is not signed because that can only be done by MS.
 
the browser is built into a comercial game, wipout pure. the xbox still needs to be modded in some way to run the unsigned code
 
Yeah I was wondering if there was a way to further exploit the wipeoutpure webbrowser so that, instead of pointing you to a webserver (which has links to various websites - this is what the hack is now), you send it to the memorystick directory/slot to execute code from there... Worse case is the games have to be converted to flash or something and you need to go through the webbrowser to play the games.... kind of redundant, and not nearly as accessible, but its the easiest and/or quickest way for getting NES/SNES/GBA etc. games on your PSP.

peace,
OriginalOCer
 
OriginalOCer said:
Yeah I was wondering if there was a way to further exploit the wipeoutpure webbrowser so that, instead of pointing you to a webserver (which has links to various websites - this is what the hack is now), you send it to the memorystick directory/slot to execute code from there... Worse case is the games have to be converted to flash or something and you need to go through the webbrowser to play the games.... kind of redundant, and not nearly as accessible, but its the easiest and/or quickest way for getting NES/SNES/GBA etc. games on your PSP.

peace,
OriginalOCer
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Does teh Wipeout browser support flash? Somehow I doubt it but i don't have a PSP to know any better.

The thing with emulation is not nessasarily that your running code, but also that your emulating it...making the current hardware pretend to act like the older hardware. A lesser system may be able to emulate to a decent extent cause the native intruction set can iterpret the emulated intructions well, but it's very possible that a far superior system may be slower or extremely difficult to interpret the code since it uses an entirely different instruction set. Ports take time, lots of time.
 
Staples said:
If it can't run unsigned code, how did they get a web browser and IRC on it? A lot of modded Xbox software is made with a dev kit but the code is not signed because that can only be done by MS.
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The web browser is an extra you can access if you buy Wipeout Pure. PSPIRC is accessed through the web browser.

The PSP isn't a console. Sony set it up to be as closed a platform as they could make it, and I'm not talking about the use of Memory Sticks or UMD media. If you actually owned one and took a good look at the XMB, you'd see there's no way to run programs from the Memory Stick, period. Someone has to figure out how to get programs to launch from the Memory Stick before we can worry about emulation.

And as far as emulation goes, we'll be lucky if we get a full-speed SNES emulator.
 
-RIP-Crayak said:
Yea but how bout us poor peeps who cant afford one, is there an emu of the PSP for the pc?
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Yeah...um..see, asking for, or for ways to use stolen products...that just doesn't fly here.

 
MeanieMan said:
Yeah...um..see, asking for, or for ways to use stolen products...that just doesn't fly here.
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Emulators are legal. Running commercial games on them that you don't already own is not. Since he's only asking for an emulator, it's fine.
 
Terpfen said:
Emulators are legal. Running commercial games on them that you don't already own is not. Since he's only asking for an emulator, it's fine.
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It would have been fine if he asked if one existed, but he screwed himself with the "how bout us poor peeps who cant afford one" comment.

 
MeanieMan said:
It would have been fine if he asked if one existed, but he screwed himself with the "how bout us poor peeps who cant afford one" comment.
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It's still alright: PSP games are unrippable to ROM form, at least right now. There are no UMD readers for PCs, and you can't use the WiFi or USB uplink to a PC to copy UMD data over. When someone gets a PSP emulator running--it'll probably be a few years, because emulation authors will just base them on improved PS2 emulators--it'll only run homebrew games, unless someone managed to rip a UMD (damned unlikely.)
 
you don't necessarily have to emulate though. Some schemes involve preprocessing for a rom that converts its instructions to something very close to native code that can be run in a sandbox quickly.

redhalo said:
Does teh Wipeout browser support flash? Somehow I doubt it but i don't have a PSP to know any better.

The thing with emulation is not nessasarily that your running code, but also that your emulating it...making the current hardware pretend to act like the older hardware. A lesser system may be able to emulate to a decent extent cause the native intruction set can iterpret the emulated intructions well, but it's very possible that a far superior system may be slower or extremely difficult to interpret the code since it uses an entirely different instruction set. Ports take time, lots of time.
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Whatsisname said:
you'd be amazed what sort of ghetto-rigged equiptment people come up with...that works.
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I can imagine. It's still unlikely, for a whole host of reasons. Long story short: the best way to get a UMD reader would be to cannibalize the PSP, but I doubt anyone's going to spend $250 just to destroy their PSP and rip UMD data that would be unusable in any manner. Just what will these ROMs run on? There won't be a PSP emulator for quite a while, and downloading the UMD data to a 2GB Memory Stick Duo (do those even exist yet?) would still make the data unusable, since code can't be run from the Memory Stick (the only exception being firmware updates, and I really doubt Sony's going to disclose how that works.)
 
Whatsisname said:
you don't necessarily have to emulate though. Some schemes involve preprocessing for a rom that converts its instructions to something very close to native code that can be run in a sandbox quickly.
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That makes sence, but the effort in transalting and (usually) breaking the encryption on the code still remains a major project. Look at mame, it's been around for quite a while and is probably the largest group working on any emulation project, and there are many older games that still don't run at full speed or correctly (or at all). It's amazing what they have been able to do though. Or you could take the extreme example of Capcom CPS2 hardware. Capcom encrypted the code (common practice these days) in such a way that the top emulation programers said it's unlikely we will be able to crack it for many years to come.
 
Terpfen said:
I can imagine. It's still unlikely, for a whole host of reasons. Long story short: the best way to get a UMD reader would be to cannibalize the PSP, but I doubt anyone's going to spend $250 just to destroy their PSP and rip UMD data that would be unusable in any manner. Just what will these ROMs run on? There won't be a PSP emulator for quite a while, and downloading the UMD data to a 2GB Memory Stick Duo (do those even exist yet?) would still make the data unusable, since code can't be run from the Memory Stick (the only exception being firmware updates, and I really doubt Sony's going to disclose how that works.)
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$250 isn't much. If you spend that much on a toy, someone else can spend it on a tool. And you wouldn't need to disclose the format of the firmware updates, as someone will reverse engineer it.
The Dreamcast and Gamecube used extremely proprietary formats, but there are still emulators for them, and custom software that runs on them. Hell, that's the care with about every system, yet there are emulators for them.
 
pr0pensity said:
$250 isn't much. If you spend that much on a toy, someone else can spend it on a tool. And you wouldn't need to disclose the format of the firmware updates, as someone will reverse engineer it.
The Dreamcast and Gamecube used extremely proprietary formats, but there are still emulators for them, and custom software that runs on them. Hell, that's the care with about every system, yet there are emulators for them.
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Emulation on the Dreamcast didn't make use of much of it's proprietary formats, thats why it was so damn easy to copy DC games. It can read standard cd's as well as it's own. And to teh best of my knowledge there are no emulators for the Gamecube yet. Just for GBA running through the GC. Also homebrew software is nothing like emulating. Thats just proramming for the console's native language/SDK. I'm not trying to throw a wrench in your dreams, I'm just saying it will be a while before you see emulation on the PSP as it has taken a while on all previous systems, if it was accomplished at all.
 
pr0pensity said:
$250 isn't much. If you spend that much on a toy, someone else can spend it on a tool. And you wouldn't need to disclose the format of the firmware updates, as someone will reverse engineer it.
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If you classify video games as toys, then sure. I don't.

As for firmware updates: how exactly will someone reverse-engineer them if they don't have some kind of file to reverse-engineer? The firmware update process bypasses downloading files to your PC: you download right onto the Memory Stick, and the PSP auto-updates without giving you the chance to remove the Memory Stick and load those files onto the PC via Memory Stick adapter.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but we're talking about a pretty hard nut to crack.


The Dreamcast and Gamecube used extremely proprietary formats, but there are still emulators for them, and custom software that runs on them. Hell, that's the care with about every system, yet there are emulators for them.
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The Dreamcast? Are you kidding me? Sega implemented a regional lockout and nothing else. You can burn a CD, stick it in an unmodded Dreamcast, and the thing will run as if it were a retail game. Dreamcast was the easiest system to ever pirate for.

As for Gamecube, when your format is exactly like a mini-CD, well, someone's going to crack it.

Now please explain how someone's going to crack UMD.
 
Terpfen said:
The Dreamcast? Are you kidding me? Sega implemented a regional lockout and nothing else. You can burn a CD, stick it in an unmodded Dreamcast, and the thing will run as if it were a retail game. Dreamcast was the easiest system to ever pirate for.

As for Gamecube, when your format is exactly like a mini-CD, well, someone's going to crack it.

Now please explain how someone's going to crack UMD.
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That and the Dreamcast had native downloading ability from the internet. And the developers cable which allowed direct connection with a pc. Or you could make a direct connection with the *rare* broadband modem. And it helped to be running on a modified Windows CE with the SDK freely available from MS. It was a great system whil it lasted (still is with it's underground support).
 
Terpfen said:
If you classify video games as toys, then sure. I don't.

As for firmware updates: how exactly will someone reverse-engineer them if they don't have some kind of file to reverse-engineer? The firmware update process bypasses downloading files to your PC: you download right onto the Memory Stick, and the PSP auto-updates without giving you the chance to remove the Memory Stick and load those files onto the PC via Memory Stick adapter.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but we're talking about a pretty hard nut to crack.




The Dreamcast? Are you kidding me? Sega implemented a regional lockout and nothing else. You can burn a CD, stick it in an unmodded Dreamcast, and the thing will run as if it were a retail game. Dreamcast was the easiest system to ever pirate for.

As for Gamecube, when your format is exactly like a mini-CD, well, someone's going to crack it.

Now please explain how someone's going to crack UMD.
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When I updated my Japanese PSP I downloaded the file to my computer first... then I transfered it over...

... then to update, I clicked on the file, which then automatically ran the update.


Not only that, but you guys forget who you're talking about. The PSP can and will be reverese engineered, just like every other system has. I personally think it's going to be sooner rather than later, simply because demand for PSP hacks is high (as it was on the PS2 and Xbox, and they both took a little over 1 years to crack).

Games running off memory stick is only a matter of time and I am sure plenty of people have already started cutting/modding/hacking/cracking the crap out of PSPs to try to get them completely accessible through a PC... while a modchip is probably going to be necessary its only a matter of time.

peace,
OrignalOCer

p.s. the DC only had a 200MHz processor and it could run NES, GBC, and Genesis 100%. With SNES (and GBA) only about 70%.... I am willing to bet you could get SNES and GBA games to run at 100% speed on the PSP, but the proc would be running full tilt, so who knows what it would do to battery life.

p.p.s. It doesn't matter what XMB is like... if XMB doesn't let you run games off memory stick somone will create a HackedXMB that will (just like the hacked dashboards for XBOX). This would probably require you to completely reflash your PSP's firmware to something completely but its still very very very possible.
 
OriginalOCer said:
When I updated my Japanese PSP I downloaded the file to my computer first... then I transfered it over...

... then to update, I clicked on the file, which then automatically ran the update.


Not only that, but you guys forget who you're talking about. The PSP can and will be reverese engineered, just like every other system has. I personally think it's going to be sooner rather than later, simply because demand for PSP hacks is high (as it was on the PS2 and Xbox, and they both took a little over 1 years to crack).

Games running off memory stick is only a matter of time and I am sure plenty of people have already started cutting/modding/hacking/cracking the crap out of PSPs to try to get them completely accessible through a PC... while a modchip is probably going to be necessary its only a matter of time.

peace,
OrignalOCer

p.s. the DC only had a 200MHz processor and it could run NES, GBC, and Genesis 100%. With SNES (and GBA) only about 70%.... I am willing to bet you could get SNES and GBA games to run at 100% speed on the PSP, but the proc would be running full tilt, so who knows what it would do to battery life.

p.p.s. It doesn't matter what XMB is like... if XMB doesn't let you run games off memory stick somone will create a HackedXMB that will (just like the hacked dashboards for XBOX). This would probably require you to completely reflash your PSP's firmware to something completely but its still very very very possible.
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I have no doubt that the PSP could emulate nes and such once it's finnaly realized, but like I said in a previous post, it's not so as much a prcessor speed issue as it is the prossessors native instructions themselves. PSP runs faster, but thinks completely differently, so it would be starting over from scratch for the emulation world. Which can take years. An exemple of how there are difficulties your not seeing would be DC emulation on a pc. As in it's extremely limited, homebrew games only I believe, and how long has this easily hacked 200 mhz console been out?
 
Simple in theory. All you need to do is put something between the internet cloud and the psp. I am not familiar with how the PSP gets its updates, but I'm sure if you place a computer in its internet path and record all the packets going to the PSP, you can piece the data together and generate a file that is what the memory stick is being filled with.[/quote]

Terpfen said:
As for firmware updates: how exactly will someone reverse-engineer them if they don't have some kind of file to reverse-engineer? The firmware update process bypasses downloading files to your PC: you download right onto the Memory Stick, and the PSP auto-updates without giving you the chance to remove the Memory Stick and load those files onto the PC via Memory Stick adapter.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but we're talking about a pretty hard nut to crack.
An example here is you'd have a working PSP, and you'd reverse engineer the circuitry of the UMD by connecting to traces on the PCB, use some data aquisition, and reverse engineer the circuitry behind the umd.
Now please explain how someone's going to crack UMD.
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if theres a will theres a way, emulation will exist on psp's sooner or later, more likely later than sooner, but it will happen.
 
Whatsisname said:
Simple in theory. All you need to do is put something between the internet cloud and the psp. I am not familiar with how the PSP gets its updates, but I'm sure if you place a computer in its internet path and record all the packets going to the PSP, you can piece the data together and generate a file that is what the memory stick is being filled with.
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[/QUOTE]

Firmware updates will also be released in the form of files that you download put on the memory stick and run from the psp. The file is right there for you to look at/edit. The PSP even has a mode to run games off the memory stick in it's interface. People have already managed to put monkey island on the psp (not getting it to run correctly yet), but it executes.
 
redhalo said:
I have no doubt that the PSP could emulate nes and such once it's finnaly realized, but like I said in a previous post, it's not so as much a prcessor speed issue as it is the prossessors native instructions themselves. PSP runs faster, but thinks completely differently, so it would be starting over from scratch for the emulation world. Which can take years. An exemple of how there are difficulties your not seeing would be DC emulation on a pc. As in it's extremely limited, homebrew games only I believe, and how long has this easily hacked 200 mhz console been out?
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Yeah but look at how completely different the NES/SNES/GEN is from DC, and they've been ported that over to the DC in no time at all.... NES/Genesis/etc. are comparatively simple to emulate regardless of the platform, whereas trying to emulate the DC would be a lot more difficult (just look at the difference in games... 8bit 2D with bleeps for sounds, compared to 3D with CD quality audio). That is why it has taken so long for DC to be emulated (plus almost all DC games are on other systems so there isn't really a demand for DC emulation). NES/SNES/GENESIS/Etc. have all already be emulated on various other systems... for already made emus to be converted over to PSP (even with its on proprietary instruction set [its not proprietary though as it uses a RISC processor]) it wouldn't be nearly as difficult as having to make a DC emulator.

Also, emu for NES/SNES/etc. ahve already been made for the MIPS4000 or whatever proc the PSP uses, so it wouldn't be hard to do at all... the hardest part is getting the progs (emus in thsi case) to run off the memory stick.

peace,
OriginalOCer
 
Some PSP news; apparently the Codewarrior development suite for the PSP was stolen/leaked. Unless I'm looking at a Photoshopped screenshot, homebrew software is on the horizon.
 
Terpfen said:
Some PSP news; apparently the Codewarrior development suite for the PSP was stolen/leaked. Unless I'm looking at a Photoshopped screenshot, homebrew software is on the horizon.
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yeah I read the same thing, but there is no confirmation thus far. Even if it's true, it would still take a bit of time to rework the launch/boot code to work with memory sticks. Either way it will only make the whole cracking/hacking process faster.

peace,
OriginalOCer
 
OriginalOCer said:
yeah I read the same thing, but there is no confirmation thus far. Even if it's true, it would still take a bit of time to rework the launch/boot code to work with memory sticks. Either way it will only make the whole cracking/hacking process faster.
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I'm looking at a screenshot of the Codewarrior setup screen. I'd say it's pretty legit.
 
OriginalOCer said:
Yeah but look at how completely different the NES/SNES/GEN is from DC, and they've been ported that over to the DC in no time at all.... NES/Genesis/etc. are comparatively simple to emulate regardless of the platform, whereas trying to emulate the DC would be a lot more difficult (just look at the difference in games... 8bit 2D with bleeps for sounds, compared to 3D with CD quality audio). That is why it has taken so long for DC to be emulated (plus almost all DC games are on other systems so there isn't really a demand for DC emulation). NES/SNES/GENESIS/Etc. have all already be emulated on various other systems... for already made emus to be converted over to PSP (even with its on proprietary instruction set [its not proprietary though as it uses a RISC processor]) it wouldn't be nearly as difficult as having to make a DC emulator.

Also, emu for NES/SNES/etc. ahve already been made for the MIPS4000 or whatever proc the PSP uses, so it wouldn't be hard to do at all... the hardest part is getting the progs (emus in thsi case) to run off the memory stick.

peace,
OriginalOCer
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Thats my point though, there is such a great difference between consoles. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, just not to expect it immediatly. This is a good thread, great discussion with no one getting pissy. Arguments aside though, PSP should handle NES and such with ease, just takes a team to jump at it. As for DC emulation, there's plenty of awsome games I'd like emulated that arn't on other systems. Street Fighter Third Strike for one, which it has been said that the arcade version will likely not be broken in the next 5 years :( . Bust-A-Move 4, Jet Grind Radio (way better than the Xbox sequel), Sea Man, Bomberman Online, ect.
 
redhalo said:
Thats my point though, there is such a great difference between consoles. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, just not to expect it immediatly. This is a good thread, great discussion with no one getting pissy. Arguments aside though, PSP should handle NES and such with ease, just takes a team to jump at it. As for DC emulation, there's plenty of awsome games I'd like emulated that arn't on other systems. Street Fighter Third Strike for one, which it has been said that the arcade version will likely not be broken in the next 5 years :( . Bust-A-Move 4, Jet Grind Radio (way better than the Xbox sequel), Sea Man, Bomberman Online, ect.
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dont forget Rez... :D :D
 
An example here is you'd have a working PSP, and you'd reverse engineer the circuitry of the UMD by connecting to traces on the PCB, use some data aquisition, and reverse engineer the circuitry behind the umd
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Exactly. Never say never ;)

With all the recent developments, the PSP hacking scene is looking rosy.

Oh, and just to point out, a PC Dreamcast emulator that plays many games perfectly has been around for quite a while ;)
 
fannypad said:
Exactly. Never say never ;)

With all the recent developments, the PSP hacking scene is looking rosy.

Oh, and just to point out, a PC Dreamcast emulator that plays many games perfectly has been around for quite a while ;)
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I could never get them to run shit, perhaps I'm doing something wrong? Which one would you suggest as I need my SFIII fix on a better 6 button controller.
 
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