PS3 + Dell2707 problem

[ichitakaseto]

I know this must've been asked for several times on this forum, I really wouldnt start a new thread asking this if I had the time looking through every page.

Just wanna make sure here if the picture washout problem is a problem u will definitly run into when connecting ps3 to dell2707 via a HDMI-DVI cable, OR it's another lottery thing? I see ppl claiming this issue in dell forum ( http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=76270 ) and at the same time I see some other ppl posting pictures of ps3 working perfectly on this monitor ( http://www.uwants.com/viewthread.php?tid=3327361&page=1&extra=page=1 )

Can somebody who have tried comfirm on this? I'd really appreciate it.

 

[RonaldSage]

No, this problem affects each and every 2707WFP; along with myself, I've personally talked to two other people with the same "washed-out" effect, as well as the numerous Dell Support users who have commented on the issue.

If you actually examine one of the pictures at the latter link you posted...

...you can notice the washed-out blacks at the lower-left and right-hand portions of the screen. See how much lighter that area is compared to the 1:1 scaling bars? Those are blacks, and should be at the same level as the scaling bars. If you even look at the menu settings, you'll see that "Brightness" is set at 0, so that's essentially the lowest you can get the blacks to be. It's not that apparent in the above photograph, but when you're actually using the monitor in person, it's *extremely* noticable.

Someone at the Dell Support forums contacted Sony Customer Support about the issue, and the representative stated that numerous people have called in to report about washed-out black levels when using an HDMI-DVI cable, so this issue isn't just restricted to the 2707WFP; unfortunately, I haven't been able to detect a pattern in determining which monitors are affected and which aren't, mostly because it's really hard to find people who use this type of setup.

EDIT: Actually, I just noticed the Dell Support link you cited in your OP is the one I was referring to above. Oops

 

[RonaldSage]

Here, let me show you some of the different pics I've found around the 'net:

This is someone using a 2407WFP (Not sure which revision), whose monitor exhibits perfect black levels via HDMI-DVI:

Now, here's someone who's using the same HDMI-DVI process, only their monitor (Which type, I'm not sure) posesses the "washed-out" blacks problem, unlike the 2407:

Do you see that "shadow area" beneath Selma Blair's face at the lower-right corner of the screen? The blacks in those shadows are set way higher than the 1:1 scaling bars. Under normal operation, those should be at the same level and pitch, like the first picture with the 2407.

As you've probably noticed, this problem is difficult to convey in an image, but it is noticable, and rather irksome as well.

I was thinking of starting up a separate thread to compile a list of which monitors are affected, but it seems that barely anyone out there is noticing these wonky black levels on their displays, which I find to be rather suspect.

 

[ichitakaseto]

thank you for taking time answering my question.

But I dont get it, if its the problem on the ps3 end with HDMI-DVI cable, why 2407 doesnt have such a problem, would it be the new larger gamut thing that is causing this, or is it because of the cable used? ALso how do u explaint the screenshots of RR7 and the movies, as they look fine to me, does it mean this black level problem only happens with ps3 menus?

Im abit confused, and still not quite convinced that this is a universal problem.

 

[RonaldSage]

thank you for taking time answering my question.

But I dont get it, if its the problem on the ps3 end with HDMI-DVI cable, why 2407 doesnt have such a problem, would it be the new larger gamut thing that is causing this, or is it because of the cable used? ALso how do u explaint the screenshots of RR7 and the movies, as they look fine to me, does it mean this black level problem only happens with ps3 menus?

Im abit confused, and still not quite convinced that this is a universal problem.

It has to do with the 2707's way of interpreting different types of video signals.

I'm not fully versed in the technical details, so I can't give a full-on explanation, but while the problem is essentially coming from the PS3, it's also the 2707's fault for not properly recognizing the signal.

There's an AVSForum thread about this topic (Which I'm having difficulty locating at the moment), that gives a full explanation for everything - maybe you'll have better luck finding it than me

But yeah, all 2707s are affected by this, I'm 100% sure.

 

[Yaka]

thats not selma blair, she was never in ultra violet

 

[synergyo1]

I have my PS3 connected to my 2007wfp via a HDMI-DVI cable I bought off of Monoprice. I had to lower my brightness level to around 25 to achieve the same blacks as the black bars.

The black level issue seems to be a problem with the 2707s.

 

[ichitakaseto]

...you can notice the washed-out blacks at the lower-left and right-hand portions of the screen. See how much lighter that area is compared to the 1:1 scaling bars? Those are blacks, and should be at the same level as the scaling bars. If you even look at the menu settings, you'll see that "Brightness" is set at 0..

when i took another look at it, its not 0 brightness, it's zoom 0

so has anyone else who tried connecting ps3 to 2707?

 

[ichitakaseto]

here are some pics of 2407 in 1080p with 0 brightness, isnt it washed out too??

but the game looks normal again...

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Is there any pictures of the 2407WFP in 1:1 mode, so to check the black level against the top and bottom border? So far, all the 2407WFP pictures have been streched to full screen...

Edit: From what I have read, the NEC 2690 also suffers from bad blacks when connecting a PS3, so this problem affects many screens besides the 2707WFP. Maybe they'll come with a fix for it in the PS3?

On the 2690 you could compensate by adjusting the black level down accordingly (it has a seperate control for black level).

 

[consoleboi]

Sorry for the bad camera quality.

 

[ichitakaseto]

Those were tested on a REV03 i think, so theres no 1:1 available...

thanks consoleboi for ur pics, i recon its black level looks as fine as it can be

ps. some guy over the avs forum claimed he got this washed-out problem solved on his Samsung LNS-4095 hdtv by updating ps3 to 1.7 which was just released on 22nd april, anyone with dell 2707 had any luck?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10375041#post10375041

 

[ToastyX]

The PS3 and possibly other HDMI devices only output RGB values from 16 to 235. That means black is #101010 and white is #ebebeb. This causes the washed out look. I don't know if monitors are supposed to compensate for that, but some do and some don't.

 

[ichitakaseto]

thanks ToastyX, yes that might be one reason.

some more pics found, even though the BHD screenshot seem abit greyish, i recon the overall quality of this one tested is pretty good

 

[RonaldSage]

This is the most revealing picture of the problem I'm found so far:

1:1 mode perfectly showcases the variation in blacks...

 

[Weenis]

This is the most revealing picture of the problem I'm found so far:

1:1 mode perfectly showcases the variation in blacks...

Maybe those pixels around it aren't lit up when its at 1:1 ? Not giving them any excuses just a thought.

 

[cman74]

Those were tested on a REV03 i think, so theres no 1:1 available...

thanks consoleboi for ur pics, i recon its black level looks as fine as it can be

ps. some guy over the avs forum claimed he got this washed-out problem solved on his Samsung LNS-4095 hdtv by updating ps3 to 1.7 which was just released on 22nd april, anyone with dell 2707 had any luck?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10375041#post10375041

I just picked up a PS3 and no luck with 1.70 update. Blacks still washed out with HDMI, unfortunately.

Is this problem evident with component also? Since the 2707 supposedly does 1080i over component, would I notice any difference between component and 1080p HDMI?

 

[RonaldSage]

Component is unaffected, but unfortunately, the 2707's component input is absolute garbage...

 

[cman74]

Component is unaffected, but unfortunately, the 2707's component input is absolute garbage...

Eh, that stinks. I don't know, I tested out Blackhawk down and it doesn't really bother me all that much.

How do you feel about it RonaldS?

 

[RonaldSage]

How do you feel about it RonaldS?

Well, looks like we won't have to worry about it anymore.

Sony just released Firmware version 1.80, which contains the fix all of us DVI-HDMI users have been waiting for - it's listed as "HDMI (Full Range)" under the XMB Settings menu.

Old:

New:

I guess I'll be repurchasing a 2707, then. Excellent stuff, Sony.

 

[cman74]

Thumbs up to Sony! I'll give it spin tonight.

 

[Godmachine]

God those blu-ray dvd's look amazing. I might just get a PS3 after all lol

 

[kimnkk]

Yay! Thats good news, although i have to admit i didn't notice much lighter blacks when i was playing resistance. Nevertheless, its good to see that it wasn't Dell's fault and now Sony has fixed it!

 

[matt-helm]

I just got my 2707 last week and the 1.8 update couldn't of been more perfectly timed. The difference is is like night and day!