• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Project Kollider: Console Form Factor PC

H

hoggy

n00b
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
34
Evening all,

I've always enjoyed the SFF pc since buying a Belinea O.max 5 XS years ago.

I originally started work on my own (albeit larger) version based around fitting into the footprint of an A4 piece of paper. Thinking "Wow thats original!" Some machining later i had the basic case sorted.
I then came across the DAN A4 and promptly threw the project back in the garage.

Disheartened & with a bunch of components laying around i thought i'd take on the Syber Vapor instead.

Alot of people on here are trying to start these projects from scratch which does allow alot of customization but also usually end up being pretty expensive.
I've tried to work with what is already available for the simple fact that you can keep costs low.

Hence project Kollider was born.
It's not finished yet as the custom PCIE IO Plate & HDD mount is on order at the local machine shop but the basic theory is there.
Also waiting on a 50mm Punch & 2 more fans to give some more air to the GPU bay.

Currently running the following;
240W power brick
300w DC-DC PSU with 6pin & 8 pin PCIE
H81 ITX with WIFI
Intel Dual Core (testing only. Planning i3 & i5 although lower TDP preferred)
2.5" HDD
R9 270
4GB RAM
64mm x 295mm x 270mm (H x W x D)


Pro's
Cheap
Simple
Small
Console Shape
Uses off the shelf components
Upgradeable

Cons
Not everyone likes power bricks. (Suggest you look elsewhere)
Only supports cards with Power Connectors at the back currently (not many) although I'm working on this.
Runs a bit hot (Soon to be sorted with actual ventilation under the GPU
Case is a bit bland. Should have got the red one!

To Do
Supplier has a wider case but not availble in UK. If there is enough interest i'm willing to give it a go. It gives around 30mm more width so will allow for standard gpu power connectors on the side and also have room for 2x 60mm fans blowing vertically across the card. A bit like the gigabyte brix.
Cable management: sleeving on order to tidy the whole thing up and improve airflow.

My questions however are:
Is there much interest in this format from consumers. When you add everything up this only makes sense if your GPU is better than a 750TI, otherwise buy the Alienware alpha.

Would anyone be interested in it as a complete Unit?

Would anyone buy this as a kit: Case, IO Plate, PSU & PCIE Riser

Thats all for now as it's late but i'll answer some questions tomorrow.

Hoggy


Case Front


Internals


PS4 Comparison


PS4 Comparison 2


image upload
 
Last edited:
I would pay for one if you could manufacture this... just because I like the layout.
 
I like the dimension but using a brick means is a totally niche product.

How are the temperatures on this thing? The VGA does only have the side air inlets?

Can you show us the photo of the back and how did you attach the VGA?

What's the name of the case you're using?
 
Do you mean a 240 VOLT power brick and 300 WATT PSU?

What sort of testing have you done?

I would want to see a much more powerful PSU: I'd want to be able to put a 290X / 3xx / 970 in this thing. I wouldn't bother with the extra 60mm fans - just use a graphics card with a blower fan. But unless you can supply a flat adapter to wrap around the GPU, that extra 30mm is going to be needed for the GPU power connectors.
 
Delete somehow it turned to a double post, edit made a new post & didn't edit...
 
Last edited:
It would be so cool to make a case, any good simple free programs to design a case, no complicated CAD stuff please... The NES is 3,5 in tall, so I would think a case 5.5 in tall (clearance for the PCIe GPU plug) but the same W & 4 more in D might work pretty good... Think there would be room in there for a mITX board, a ATX PSU (they have 600 w SFXs now though) & a everyday full hieght dual slot GPU...
 
Last edited:
I like the idea of re-selling a modded case instead of producing one from scratch, but you should really get the wider version. Not being able to use GPUs with PEG connectors on the side is pretty much a no-go.

Other than that, very solid idea. I personally wouldn't buy it, but I guess there's a market for it. Maybe it would make sense to also sell a complete package with everything already installed, kinda like a premium gaming console.
 
Thanks all, some constructive thoughts here.
I'm not a fan of the brick either but i have to work with what i've got. 20mm more depth and i could squeeze an SFX PSU.

One thing to bear in mind, this starts off life as a £30.00 case with a 1U flex PSU (which you can sell i guess) and with a small bit of machining to make a new back plate you get something altogether better in my opinion.

To answer some above questions in order;

Temps are;
GPU 86'C with Furmark without any forced cooling and just side holes & top holes. Soon to have bottom ventilation as i assume this is why it runs hot. I stupidly bought the 270 XFX DD which although looks to be almost blower like in construction it couldn't be further from it. I have never known a card shift so little air out of the rear vent in my life. But it was cheap.... (for England anyway)
CPU: Super Pi. Didn't cross 60'c. It does have a direct cold air feed right above which helps!

I'll show you the rear IO plate when it turns up. It's just bolted to the case with metal brackets for now.

It's a 300W DC-DC PSU with 19V input:
Max Load on 12V Rail = 20A ; Peak = 24A

I could shift to the 500W version but then you need 2 power bricks. If your using that much power you need a LOT more air than this can physically deliver and probably have more money to spend on a much nicer case.
It's an efficient board but you would still end up having the best part of 75W extra heat pumped into the case.

This currently is powered by a 240W @ 240V Dell PSU ala Alienware as i have one laying around.
I've had it on furmark for hours and it appears to not get any hotter than just on idle. I've read on other forums these have a fair amount of headroom in them.

Not a fan of the flexible risers unless you spend £££. Tried one both under & over the card but never really liked all the ventilation it blocked. Mines fixed, supports the card (less case modding) and costs £6.

I would love to cram all sorts of cards in this but i just don't think physics will allow. Getting rid of 150W of heat quietly is already a challenge as it is, plus thats not the target i'm aiming for. It's more of a middle ground UPGRADEABLE HTPC / Console replacement kind of thing. More Power = More Heat = More Noise in these dimensions unless water is involved £££
You never know. The r9 370+ cards might be a surprise on the TDP front...
The new 960 however might be a good call if it wasn't around £160 over here.

I agree with the wider case. Right now the dimensions limit you to 750TI (much better options for that out there) 270 & 285 ITX.
The other is 315mm Wide which actually nets me 20mm extra as it doesn't have a lip on the side which gets in the way; However
Shipping to UK is a joke at the moment. Unless i can come to some kind of deal with them. Might end up buying in bulk and just selling them on if the project fails.
It looks "ok" but nothing special;


Kollider V2

I'll get on with my best Mandarin....
 
Not trolling, but what are the differences between your build, other than appearance, to the RVZ01/RVZ02?
 
A lot "thinner" than RVZ01, I bit thinner than RVZ02. About 100mm less deep but other than that not alot really. I will admit if they don't take the p!ss with pricing they will sell a bunch as steam boxes... But hey what's a little competition: even if they do have lots of researchers, machine shop, past experience, a good reputation....wait a minute...:-p
 
Can't knock you for trying -- I wouldn't know where to even begin with a project like this as I don't have anywhere near the skill.
 
Hello All,

Just a little update, I've been tussling with Realan (the company that make the T01 / T02 series)

They have come up with an offer which unfortunately i can't say is particularly viable to simply extend the depth of their existing cases:

Tooling: $25,000.00
Case manufacture cost: $30.00
MOQ: 1000 Units.

So before we get to the "hidden" costs the raw production cost is:
$55.00 ($25,000 / 1000 + $30)

And now the hidden costs that i'm yet to quantify:
Shipping (assume via sea & shipping containers)
Storage Costs (I'm not having $55K of product sat in the garage)
Insurances (I'm not having $55K of product sat in the garage)
Import Charges / Vat / etc (UK: Pc Case has an import duty rate of 6% and a VAT rate of 20% commodity code 7616.99.9099)
Resale Costs / Order management (on-line shop / postage etc)

I may be able to come to some agreement regarding Drop Shipping, although that leaves the end user with the whole import duty thing which has always irritated me.
They have also quoted including a 1U PSU which i don't need so i can cut costs there aswell.
I have sourced a custom Gold Rated 1U PSU (inbox me if you need details)

As you can see the costs are quite significant ans i'll estimate the finished product will be around £52 or $70 / $80.

To me this seems a tad expensive for what is an "OK" looking case but nothing special.
What are other peoples thoughts?

(I also have a plan B which i'll explain when its done. Hope you like slim cases!)
 
May I assume you need to extend depth to support SFX psu?
Could you show us how the back looks? How the card is mounted and what riser are you using?
Are you going to mod each case or you want to order it manufactured completely from Realan?

As for your questions:

You need some profit that will support you during the whole run

It will be hard getting those 1000 unit orders for something that looks just OK especially when crowdfunding is partially about "purchasing a dream come true"
 
SaperPL said:
May I assume you need to extend depth to support SFX psu?
Could you show us how the back looks? How the card is mounted and what riser are you using?
Are you going to mod each case or you want to order it manufactured completely from Realan?

As for your questions:

You need some profit that will support you during the whole run

It will be hard getting those 1000 unit orders for something that looks just OK especially when crowdfunding is partially about "purchasing a dream come true"
Click to expand...

Extended depth allows for longer cards but is mainly for the 1U PSU. (I'm trying to keep it console sized)
I'm using a 1.5U PCIE 16x Riser which puts the GPU level with the top of the motherboard.
As i'm running H81, i have no problems as it is with the end of the card protruding 10mm behind the IO plate (as there is nothing there in the way.) Higher end chipsets will most likely have audio ports here so i was going to throw one of these in the box to push the card further out.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-LOT-Upward-PCI-E-PCI-Express-16x-Card-Slot-Riser-for-PC-Rackmount-Chassis-mini/611392744.html

The mounting "L" bracket on the back is slotted to allow horizontal movement in oversized PCIE slots.
This will however limit card width to around 115mm depending on where your power connections are.

i'll post a drawing of it later tonight.

Realan to do all the work so no extra brackets.

I'm half and half as to which way to go as my custom case is extremely modular and scales really well so i'll probably drop this one. It was a good idea in theory but just can't see 1000 people wanting one!
 
Saper,

This is how its set out at the back:

Rear IO:

The slots are over length and the PCI bracket is a slider to allow adjustment if using a motherboard with IO right upto the edge of the IO plate. It may end up being a 3 screw L bracket if its not stable enough.
You'll notice two holes in between the motherboard IO & PCI slots. These are for a small metal strip which clamps the cards fingers in place and is held by screws or bolts.

GPU Riser Bracket mounts:
The PCIE riser bolts to this with small standoffs taking it clear of the MB.
This is bolted to the bottom of the case on its shortest side for stability and also doubles as a heat shield being 150mm long .





Hope this makes sense / is helpful.

Coincidently all the above brackets are sized to utilise the material removed from the rear IO plate. Therefore absolutely no material is wasted in CNC machine production!
Reduce, Re-use, Recycle and so on...

I've a few more tricks left but can't give them all away!

I've shown my cards now, how about the inside of your case ;)
 
http://www.xcase.co.uk/desktop-pc-cases.htmlhttp://www.xcase.co.uk/desktop-pc-cases.html those look good, no special this or that needed, no riser & full height duel slot GPU compatible... I think you should beable to get a SFF case that is actually small (tall wise) you can lay those cases on their side & still have the pick of a full height dual slot GPU... I would jump on one of those cases, but both have issues I heard & I can find no reviews so that sucks...
 
I hoped you could simply show us the photo of the back.

Still I have few questions:
The riser is flexible or a pcb? If pcb then are you adding extending riser like in RVZ01?

The thing is I still don't know how you're solving the problem of bracket going into motherboard IO area with standard hard pcb riser.

As for the parts you've shown - if you're going to add those after manufacturer paints the cases then you will need to repaint that so it won't look bad.

Also I don't see the PSU mount on this back panel you've drawn. Is the back bigger than this?
 
Can't show you the back of something that doesn't yet exist! I've gone for a wider case due to the GPU plugs not fitting in the original.

I can show you the original case, albeit its my test rig so it's getting a bit messy with all the different riser heights I've been through. Obviously the finished one won't have huge gaps top and bottom of the card.





As you can see on lower end MB (H81 etc) & standard riser you get no problem with the GPU going into the backplate. This means you can use wider than normal PCB width cards.
If you want a better MB, you will need to use the additional riser as per the TIKI method which pushes the card further out but limits you to reference widths.

Parts shown were just renders of the parts you asked about. They are all part of the full case that Realan will make. they are stamped out at the factory and painted.

PSU entry wasn't shown for clarity, it's actually a cut out with a split cable gland at the back. No chunky IEC C13/C14 socket to try and fit somewhere.
 
Also realan have replied with a better offer which makes each case now $45.00 to produce.
 
Thanks, I get it now. The second image explains what I really wanted to know. But you're betting the use of PCI-e extender to move the card further away on whether the motherboard is using all its space in IO area. I'm not sure if that's decided on the motherboard quality/price.

I wanted to use cable gland like you but we ended up mounting the C14 because the SFX psu's don't have standarized C14 rotation inside and we had to use a custom cable. If you're shipping your case with different type of PSU then maybe that doesn't matter.

It looks to me like a lot of work to cut out the opening at the back and attach customized one and still make it look okay.
 
edward78 said:
http://www.xcase.co.uk/desktop-pc-cases.htmlhttp://www.xcase.co.uk/desktop-pc-cases.html those look good, no special this or that needed, no riser & full height duel slot GPU compatible... I think you should beable to get a SFF case that is actually small (tall wise) you can lay those cases on their side & still have the pick of a full height dual slot GPU... I would jump on one of those cases, but both have issues I heard & I can find no reviews so that sucks...
Click to expand...

Those cases have no space for PEG power connectors in any way and are about double the size of what hoggy is trying to do here.

@hoggy: I like the idea of using the leftovers from the backplate for the GPU stabilisers. But you have the mounting holes for the GPU on the wrong side of the end part of the bracket, they are supposed to be screwed in from the right side (from the perspective in the picture), not the left one.
 
As i'm waiting for some components to land from china and i'm bored,
A quick question:
Version 2 is modular (width ways anyway)
As a first prototype would you want to see a case thats:
A) 405 x 275 x 56 (W x D x H) GPU 270mm + Multiple 2.5" HDD
B) 340 x 275 x 56 (W x D x H) ITX Gpu only + 1x 2.5" HDD
 
I'd say you should make something in between those two: ITX gpu and 2x2.5" drives.

While volume of the first case is still small, the 405mm is quite a lot and that won't look good.

I've noticed that a lot of us would like to have two 2.5" drives for SSD + HDD combo and that's a must to have at least an option for such a configuration. With only one 2.5" mount you're forcing people to use more expensive boards which support mSATA/m.2 drives for this kind of combo.
 
Evening all,
Just a quick update. A friend of mine has kindly offered to run a few prototypes off (for beer) on his cnc machine. This does seem to be a smarter way to go for the low volume case as your not at the mercy of companies bending capabilities / accuracies. This way you get the same part every time.
It also means i can license the design to say USA (im in the UK) and it can be produced there so your not paying import tax, shipping and so on...

Dimensions: 350mm W x 285mm D x 55mm H.

With this in mind the new case consists of 2x 5mm thick plates which act as the top and bottom sections. In the prototype I've simply drilled straight through top to bottom. The finished item (if anyone actually wants one) will not have the screws on the top.

Top and bottom half are channeled which the curved side plate slots into.
Long M4 bolts secure the top half and bottom half. Pinching the side plates together.

The sides are 2mm thick and bent around a cnc produced jig so no worries there hopefully.

Internally theres a slot for 1x 2.5" hdd and a sata to Msata Mini SSd.

PSU is a 400W flex unit. This at present currently runs completely silent on a 65W CPU & 150W R9 (holy grail) and has 390W on the 12V rail.

GPU - ITX Only (Saper / Ncase / Inverse etc have all the other bases covered) GTX960/970 would be a good choice. Waiting on what AMD will release.

I'm not going to waste much more of your time as i'm sure everyone would like to see the real thing which i'm happy to show you lot more of in the next few weeks (and yes it does have some cooling)

Some (bad) renderings of it as it stands. The shape will stay but the features may change. Open to suggestions! (Case will actually be black but that doesn't render too well...)







PS button & LED light pipes are 3D printed separately. One shown is just a space filler.
 
hoggy said:
A friend of mine has kindly offered to run a few prototypes off (for beer) on his cnc machine. This does seem to be a smarter way to go for the low volume case as your not at the mercy of companies bending capabilities / accuracies. This way you get the same part every time.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? On CNC? That's okay for a functional prototype but it'll be really expensive compared to simply bent parts.

Your design is simple though and I'm not sure if you'd had same problems as we have. I'm starting to think the sandwich idea with top and bottom slightly bigger than the bent front with sides is the easiest way for manufacturing. The problem is, it won't look good with something as big as steam machine with both SFX and full size VGA inside and it takes away access from the sides which makes the case even bigger to let you install those things or you need to make detachable supporting parts which need to be screwed somewhere on the bottom.

hoggy said:
PS button & LED light pipes are 3D printed separately. One shown is just a space filler.
Click to expand...
Again the same as with the CNC - it'll take a lot of time printing and clearing out this stuff.

As for the renders - they ain't so bad, but try to make a black one that'll be visible. Other people had similar problems with rendering in early stages. Can you show us the back and possibly (I know I shouldn't be the one to ask :) ) interior?

The side vents are too small - those should be placed along whole sides. Are there vents on the bottom letting air in to the CPU cooler?
 
I think it's swings and roundabouts really. Laser cutting & then bending is around a similar cost all in (over here anyway.)
If the idea takes off (100+) I was hoping to make it work by
>buying a 2nd hand cnc machine,
>factor in average depreciation over the period (plus end mill bits etc)
>Sell machine at the end
>Profit???

The aluminium is 5083 series so really good for machining & anodizing.


Internal:







As you can see, fresh air is pulled into the case by the axial fan* & gpu.
Hot air is ejected directly out the side of the CPU area by a 1U blower to the right.
The centrifugal fan pulls some of the hot air blown backwards by the GPU & also the exhaust of the PSU out the left hand side.

*I may have to relent and source more air for the CPU under heavy loading but thats what prototypes are for!

Inlet fan & outlet fan are controlled by a PWM temperature probe sat in the GPU bay. this gives the user the option of noise or heat vice versa.

This is just theory at present and may not work at all. But it does appear to work when tested in the old rig with vents taped over.

PSU is mounted on standoffs above the HDD. Not pictured is the Msata SSD mounted on the lid section.
 
Last edited:
I still think that using CNC to do this is an overkill - you don't really need to have such precision, just bent the outer wall and cut top and bottom on laser and install fasteners.

The other thing is how will you attach the riser/VGA to the case except for the back wall and how are going to mount the PSU on standoffs. does a flexPSU have standarized mounts on the bottom or something like this? All of that may be your secret but what you've shown looks like very early stage concept.

I wouldn't put hard drive in such position next to any hot object such as power supply.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top