Project: Black Talon (Initial Discovery)

[capreppy]

I need to build a workstation capable of running Oracle 9i and a Java based Application. I can and have run these on my laptop, but never actually had to process data so I know that the DB & Application can work in a Windows Environment. This will become my main rig. When not working, I'll use the idle cycles to fold (4 Linux VM's using the SMP client). In addition, it'll double as my gaming rig (when I actually find the time to game). I do have a 24" LG that I will be using with this. I am contemplating giving the LG to my wife and getting a 28" Hanspree (still 1920x1200).

This workstation is being built for a newly formed consulting business and will be written off in its entirety. I will be working with clients that have existing instances of the application (from a major software vendor). Support for the older versions of the application will no longer exist at the end of the year. My job will be to upgrade their current instances of the application and data to the current version. In addition, I will also be doing configuration and testing for new clients. Most of these clients have servers that I could use, but one of thing I've learned is that getting access to these servers isn't a trivial matter. Working locally, I believe, will be more efficient

I believe (pretty sure) that Oracle 9i is multi-core aware. I will be running upgrade scripts against sizable Database instances. It'll need the memory and the CPU cycles to do it.

While I am writting off the entire thing, I'm still trying to keep the overall costs down. I am using SATA drives instead of SAS drives strictly due to cost. If I could budget more, then I would certainly entertain SAS. The Database instances I will be working with will range in size from 800GB to 1.8 TB. I may encounter a client that has larger instances, but will not have to deal with them initially. I have plans to add additional hard drives when I have to deal with the larger clients. The specific drive being choosen is the WD 640GB drives. Other than Raptors (way too expensive and too small a size), these are the fastest drives out there (other than the even more expensive SAS drives).

I will be installing all of this in a Mountain Mods Ascension. I will be looking to WC all of this during the summer. I may do it as part of the initial build. I'm still debating on that one. I chose the MM Ascension because I won't have the time to do any real modding of the case to set up for WC. The MM Ascension is capable of holding 3 - 3x120 rads without issue. I am likely to look at 1 rad for each CPU and 1 rad for SLI video cards. I may add a 4th loop to cool the NB and SB.

I'd like to get some feedback/suggestions/comments/questions regarding the build. I'm going to list what I think I need and would love to know if I'm completely missing the boat on this one.

Initial Build Components
Intel BOXD5400XS Dual LGA 771 Skulltrail
2x Intel Xeon E5430 Harpertown 2.66GHz
2x Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler
2x Scythe DFS123812-3000 "ULTRA KAZE" 120 x 38 mm Case Fan
4x Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM
SILVERSTONE ST1200 1200W (80+ efficiency)
areca ARC-1220 PCI-Express x8 SATA II Controller Card
2x SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure
10x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
OS + Apps (2 HDD - MoBo Raid 1: 1.28 TB)
DB Server (8 HDD - areca Raid 5: 4.48 TB) - going in the SuperMicro HDD Enclosures
Lite-On BR DVD
Samsung DVD Writer

OS is likely to be Vista x64. I have an 8800GTX that I will use for now. When the new nVidia cards come out in July (or whatever time frame), I'll upgrade video to SLI.

At least initially, all of this will be AC, but will likely go WC when I do the video card upgrades.

 

[AreEss]

You need more memory. 16GB minimum.
The BOXD5400XS does not work with those processors, and will not. You need a Supermicro X7DWA-N.
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5400/X7DWA-N.cfm
This requires changing the ARC-1220 to an ARC-1120 minimum, but that's not enough card either. OS should be RAID1, 2x 250GB (I recommend Seagate 7200.11's) off the motherboard - not off the Areca. For drives that stupid huge, which won't work anyways - WD deliberately broke them again - you'll want a RAID6 with hotspare of 7 x 750GB or 9 x 750GB on an Areca ML1130 plus BBU - which gives you the option of putting the OS drives on it as well, which is recommended with the ML1130+BBU.

 

[capreppy]

Are you sure these processors won't work with this board? This thread here says that he used these same processors on this board.

For the OS & App Drives, I meant to say RAID1. These are coming off the MoBo.

Why would you say stupid huge? I need the space for what I will be doing. Please elaborate regarding WD breaking them again? Broke what?

The 1130ML is a PCI-x card. What wouldn't I want to use a PCI-E card? The Areca 1220 is capable of Raid 6. I will definitely consider using it.

Also, the cost of going from 8GB of RAM ($400, assuming Kingston 2GB Modules) to 16GB ($1300 assuming these) isn't something I can justify. Sure I may suffer some, but I think I can muddle through it.

 

[daos]

I thought the only CPUs that work with Skulltrail were EE.

 

[capreppy]

It has LGA771 CPU Sockets and I've seen other builds with other than the Qx9775. I have to assume that it can take other CPUs

 

[Dan_D]

Are you sure these processors won't work with this board? This thread here says that he used these same processors on this board.

Those processors should work fine. Though I've never actually tried anything with the D5400XS other than the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 processors.

I thought the only CPUs that work with Skulltrail were EE.

Not true. The D5400XS only officially supports the Core 2 Extreme QX9770 processors according to Intel's site, but early documentation I got on the board shows it is able to handle 54xx sereies Xeon's as well. The board is capable of supporting any 54xx series Xeon from an electrical standpoint or a chipset standpoint. So unless the BIOS is nuetered in some way it should work.

Additionally I'm not sure that two Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme coolers will fit together on this board. I looked at it and clearance would be tight, but I'm not positive if it would work or not. In any case, you need to make sure your chassis can handle the clearance needed for two of those monsters.

 

[Dan_D]

You need more memory. 16GB minimum.
The BOXD5400XS does not work with those processors, and will not. You need a Supermicro X7DWA-N.
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5400/X7DWA-N.cfm
This requires changing the ARC-1220 to an ARC-1120 minimum, but that's not enough card either. OS should be RAID1, 2x 250GB (I recommend Seagate 7200.11's) off the motherboard - not off the Areca. For drives that stupid huge, which won't work anyways - WD deliberately broke them again - you'll want a RAID6 with hotspare of 7 x 750GB or 9 x 750GB on an Areca ML1130 plus BBU - which gives you the option of putting the OS drives on it as well, which is recommended with the ML1130+BBU.

The 5400 series Xeon's should work fine according to Intel.

 

[capreppy]

Additionally I'm not sure that two Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme coolers will fit together on this board. I looked at it and clearance would be tight, but I'm not positive if it would work or not. In any case, you need to make sure your chassis can handle the clearance needed for two of those monsters.

I looked at another thread in this sub forum and he was able to get two TRUE120's installed. I am considering WC and will probably make a final decision on that in the next 2 to 3 weeks.

My goal is to do all the analysis (I've done a fair amount already) and make final build decisions. Once the money becomes available, I'll start the build. I'm hoping to start the build in next 3 weeks or so.

 

[AreEss]

The 5400 series Xeon's should work fine according to Intel.

The documentation I have from Intel is that while they're physically and electrically supported, they are not OFFICIALLY supported. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d5400xs/sb/CS-028676.htm

Let me spell it out for you.
Processors and memory not listed as supported may or may not work with the given motherboard. The function of these components may change or be removed without notice by Intel. In the event of any technical problems, you will receive NO technical support on an unsupported configuration.

In other words, no. The 5400-series are not supported in the D5400XS. Besides, the Supermicro's something like $100-150 less.

EDIT: ... well that's interesting, they popped up on the compatibility check recently. But word I'm getting is that they aren't actually supposed to be there. I would verify with your Intel rep if you have one.

 

[AMD_RULES]

The documentation I have from Intel is that while they're physically and electrically supported, they are not OFFICIALLY supported. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d5400xs/sb/CS-028676.htm

Let me spell it out for you.
Processors and memory not listed as supported may or may not work with the given motherboard. The function of these components may change or be removed without notice by Intel. In the event of any technical problems, you will receive NO technical support on an unsupported configuration.

In other words, no. The 5400-series are not supported in the D5400XS. Besides, the Supermicro's something like $100-150 less.

This dude, who goes by Cyberdruid @ OCN, is running Xeons on the skulltrail mobo...
http://www.overclock.net/system.php?i=16784 (must be a member to see)

He is running two E5420s

 

[AreEss]

This dude, who goes by Cyberdruid @ OCN, is running Xeons on the skulltrail mobo...
http://www.overclock.net/system.php?i=16784 (must be a member to see)

He is running two E5420s

Learn to read.
I never once said you couldn't - I said it was an unsupported configuration.

 

[Dan_D]

Before the board was released I saw documentation stating that 54xx series Xeon's were supported. However after release no mention of other processors besides the QX9770's are shown in any of the documentation I've seen for the board.

However Intel had told us before we posted our Skulltrail preview article that other processors could be used on the board. AreEss is correct in that official support and the chips working are two completely different things.

 

[Dan_D]

The documentation I have from Intel is that while they're physically and electrically supported, they are not OFFICIALLY supported. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d5400xs/sb/CS-028676.htm

Let me spell it out for you.
Processors and memory not listed as supported may or may not work with the given motherboard. The function of these components may change or be removed without notice by Intel. In the event of any technical problems, you will receive NO technical support on an unsupported configuration.

In other words, no. The 5400-series are not supported in the D5400XS. Besides, the Supermicro's something like $100-150 less.

EDIT: ... well that's interesting, they popped up on the compatibility check recently. But word I'm getting is that they aren't actually supposed to be there. I would verify with your Intel rep if you have one.

I had seen that before. That's why I said that other processors should work but nothing existed in official documentation. I remember seeing it in early documents I received about the board prior to release, however that documentation is no longer valid as it was for the sample I received and not a retail board. However I have had a conversation with an Intel rep concerning this and other processors (specifically 54xx series Xeons) do work with the D5400XS.

 

[capreppy]

So it does look as if some of the Xeon Quad Core & Xeon Dual Core are on there. The Xeon E5430's that are on my original build list is not supported. I'll take a look at what is officially supported and update my build list. Yes, I would be willing to spend a little more money (in this case probably an extra $1,200) for the peace of mind that I'll be covered. It is a write-off so I'll have to deal with it.

 

[AreEss]

So it does look as if some of the Xeon Quad Core & Xeon Dual Core are on there. The Xeon E5430's that are on my original build list is not supported. I'll take a look at what is officially supported and update my build list. Yes, I would be willing to spend a little more money (in this case probably an extra $1,200) for the peace of mind that I'll be covered. It is a write-off so I'll have to deal with it.

Oh no. It's only a few Xeons, and again, it's an unsupported configuration.

Seriously, skip the Skulltrail. It's overrated and not good for your needs, at all. The Supermicro is a much better choice with the PCI-X and 16GB. You have absolutely zero hope of actually saturating the PCIe bus, or even the PCI-X bus with those disks. And again, the Supermicro board is a lot cheaper and will work with the E5430's.

EDIT:
Putting my money where my mouth is...
Skulltrail - $609.99
Supermicro X7DWA-N - $519.99

The X7DWA-N is available for only $482.76 from ATACOM over here.

 

[fluxion]

since you're gonna need some serious airflow to keep all the drives cool anyway, i think watercooling is more a liability than anything.

 

[capreppy]

Supermicro X7DWA-N - $519.99

The X7DWA-N is available for only $482.76 from ATACOM over here.

Per your suggestions (and I do appreciate them), I am looking at the above MoBo. Can you make recommendations on 4GB DDR2 800 FB-DIMMs?

I found these on Provantage. Will these work on this MoBo?

I can't afford (at least initially) more than 16GB of RAM. When additional funds become available, I'll be able to bump up to 32GB of RAM.

Is the stock HSF on the E5430 sufficient or do I need additional cooling?

 

[Dan_D]

Per your suggestions (and I do appreciate them), I am looking at the above MoBo. Can you make recommendations on 4GB DDR2 800 FB-DIMMs?

I found these on Provantage. Will these work on this MoBo?

They should but you should really check the motherboard vendors list of qualified memory modules and go with something on the list that's tested and proven to be reliable on the board.

I can't afford (at least initially) more than 16GB of RAM. When additional funds become available, I'll be able to bump up to 32GB of RAM.

Since you are going to be doing database work on this thing, the projected size of the database will determine your actual RAM needs. 16GB is certainly a good starting point.

Is the stock HSF on the E5430 sufficient or do I need additional cooling?

The stock coolers should be fine in most applicaitons. However ambient room temperatures and case design as well as case airflow will be the determining factors behind what type of cooling your CPU will need.

 

[capreppy]

Thanks Dan.

I'm not sure of the DB sizes I'll be working with. It'll vary by client. I would expect anywhere from 800GB to 2.5 TB (based on what limited information has been provided to me). I'm in contract negotiations with one client and their DB is currently only 1.2TB. I don't really have an Oracle DBA to ping in this regard for suggestions on RAM.

I'm looking more and more at the CM Stacker 810 as it already has an 850W PSU (80+ efficiency) and has more than enough front drive bays to handle 2 SuperMicro 5in3 HDD Enclosures.

 

[Dan_D]

Thanks Dan.

I'm not sure of the DB sizes I'll be working with. It'll vary by client. I would expect anywhere from 800GB to 2.5 TB (based on what limited information has been provided to me). I'm in contract negotiations with one client and their DB is currently only 1.2TB. I don't really have an Oracle DBA to ping in this regard for suggestions on RAM.

I'm looking more and more at the CM Stacker 810 as it already has an 850W PSU (80+ efficiency) and has more than enough front drive bays to handle 2 SuperMicro 5in3 HDD Enclosures.

The 810 is a fantastic case, but I prefer the STC-T01 because I prefer to mount the PSU in the top of the chassis instead of the bottom for cabling reasons.

 

[drgnfang]

Any reason why you would recommend the Supermicro over the Asus Z7S (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=82&l3=644&l4=0&model=2090&modelmenu=1)? It's running for ~ $499 on the egg.

The Asus maxes out at 24g memory, but is also a smaller board (CEB vs EATX)...

Kevin

 

[capreppy]

I'm going with the SuperMicro only because I will probably have a need to go beyond 16 or 24 GB of RAM.

 

[AreEss]

Any reason why you would recommend the Supermicro over the Asus Z7S (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=82&l3=644&l4=0&model=2090&modelmenu=1)? It's running for ~ $499 on the egg.

The Asus maxes out at 24g memory, but is also a smaller board (CEB vs EATX)...

Kevin

CEB is a mutation of ATX, and a pain in the neck. Asus boards are very low quality to put it mildly, especially their chopped down dual processors. The fact that it has 4 white/2 black DIMM sockets and not 3x3 or 4x2 should tell you right there how much of a cluster $!@#&* that board is.

 

[AreEss]

Thanks Dan.

I'm not sure of the DB sizes I'll be working with. It'll vary by client. I would expect anywhere from 800GB to 2.5 TB (based on what limited information has been provided to me). I'm in contract negotiations with one client and their DB is currently only 1.2TB. I don't really have an Oracle DBA to ping in this regard for suggestions on RAM.

That's what you think. (I'm still catching up, things have been hectic.) At 800GB, 16GB is bare minimum to put it mildly. Your committed memory is going to be low, and working with it is going to be painfully slow. To put it in perspective, I'm running 800GB-1.5TB on maxed out Sun E2900's - 12 socket, 24 core, 96GB. I cringe at memory utilization.

I'm looking more and more at the CM Stacker 810 as it already has an 850W PSU (80+ efficiency) and has more than enough front drive bays to handle 2 SuperMicro 5in3 HDD Enclosures.

I can't and won't guarantee PSU compatibility there. The Supermicro boards are picky.

 

[jen4950]

Don't mean to be an ass, but how can you write-off 100% as a business expense if it is also your gaming rig; and why does writing it off mean you don't have a budget? That's a tax issue- so you save 30%- you still have to pay for it.

---

If you are truly using for your business, why don't you get a Workstation and SAN from Dell? You can get a 5 year warranty and it will run your software without any issues. I personally wouldn't hire some hack to convert my 1.8TB Oracle DB on a watercooled homebrew machine if I knew about it.

I understand how awesome and satisfying it is to build your own machine (built many on my own), but are you building a business or an excuse for the most bad-ass gaming machine on the block?

I mean, if you have 4 clients with 2.5TB databases, and are running RAID 5, you need to be running 20 750GB drives. That's SAN territory.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[AreEss]

Don't mean to be an ass, but how can you write-off 100% as a business expense if it is also your gaming rig; and why does writing it off mean you don't have a budget? That's a tax issue- so you save 30%- you still have to pay for it.

Because a deprecation schedule only applies on leased equipment; not outright purchase. However, I'm not a lawyer, and some adjustments may apply.

If you are truly using for your business, why don't you get a Workstation and SAN from Dell? You can get a 5 year warranty and it will run your software without any issues. I personally wouldn't hire some hack to convert my 1.8TB Oracle DB on a watercooled homebrew machine if I knew about it.

Because the 5 year warranty is worthless unless you're buying a ton of machines every year from Dell, per Dell. Secondly, their 'SAN' isn't - and it's bottom end EMC rebrand trash. Frankly, I get to point and laugh at anyone running Oracle on Dell - that's like running a 747 on Linux. Enjoy your in-flight 'Oops.'

I mean, if you have 4 clients with 2.5TB databases, and are running RAID 5, you need to be running 20 750GB drives. That's SAN territory.

Just my 2 cents.

Except a real SAN as opposed to a joke, costs real money. Yes, I can go pop on eBay and pick up some MDS9509's for $5k a shot. But then I need Supervisors, $12k per, two mandatory per chassis. $18k for Fabric Manager Server. $8k for the linecard. Times two, since you need two. Overkill? Yeah. But that's the pricing I have handy, and a good perspective.
Secondly, you disqualified yourself the second you said '750GB drives.' That's SATA, that's crap, that's not database storage. The end. SATA is Tier3 and lower; the last step before it's on tape in HSM. Especially large SATA drives. You wanna advocate SAN, at least advocate SAN as opposed to archival scratch disk. Hell, I don't even use 750GB drives for TSM disk pools, they're too slow. And you wanna use 'em for a 2.5TB conversion in a severely memory constrained environment? Gee, that'll only drag your conversion out to a couple of weeks. Probably should have mentioned that if you're doing converts, yeah, you'll be without the box for weeks plus. But I was mostly asleep.

 

[jen4950]

Because a deprecation schedule only applies on leased equipment; not outright purchase. However, I'm not a lawyer, and some adjustments may apply.



Because the 5 year warranty is worthless unless you're buying a ton of machines every year from Dell, per Dell. Secondly, their 'SAN' isn't - and it's bottom end EMC rebrand trash. Frankly, I get to point and laugh at anyone running Oracle on Dell - that's like running a 747 on Linux. Enjoy your in-flight 'Oops.'



Except a real SAN as opposed to a joke, costs real money. Yes, I can go pop on eBay and pick up some MDS9509's for $5k a shot. But then I need Supervisors, $12k per, two mandatory per chassis. $18k for Fabric Manager Server. $8k for the linecard. Times two, since you need two. Overkill? Yeah. But that's the pricing I have handy, and a good perspective.
Secondly, you disqualified yourself the second you said '750GB drives.' That's SATA, that's crap, that's not database storage. The end. SATA is Tier3 and lower; the last step before it's on tape in HSM. Especially large SATA drives. You wanna advocate SAN, at least advocate SAN as opposed to archival scratch disk. Hell, I don't even use 750GB drives for TSM disk pools, they're too slow. And you wanna use 'em for a 2.5TB conversion in a severely memory constrained environment? Gee, that'll only drag your conversion out to a couple of weeks. Probably should have mentioned that if you're doing converts, yeah, you'll be without the box for weeks plus. But I was mostly asleep.

Well, to each his own- at work I've got a Precision 690 and it f'n rocks. And seem as though the processors and memory etc. all are sourced from the same places, I can't see how there could possibly be a huge disparity in performance from a homebrew machine and a $30,000 workstation from Dell. Infact, I think it's asine to think you can match that performance over the long-term considering the support and interoperability garanteed by Dell. And a warranty is a warranty- it doesn't matter what else you buy.

As for the 750GB drives- I was implying that you need at least a minimum 20 drives period for just storage. If you are so hell bent on performance and want to go 15k SAS drives- you are looking at more like 200 73GB drives- at $450 a pop and 16 drives per $1500 3U rack. That's about $100,000, not including other parts such as RAID cards, backplanes or software.

And by the way- lawyers don't handle taxes and depreciation- accountants do.

 

[Dan_D]

As for the 750GB drives- I was implying that you need at least a minimum 20 drives period for just storage. If you are so hell bent on performance and want to go 15k SAS drives- you are looking at more like 200 73GB drives- at $450 a pop and 16 drives per $1500 3U rack. That's about $100,000, not including other parts such as RAID cards, backplanes or software.

There are larger 15,000rpm drives than that. In any case what AreEss is telling you is that 750GB SATA drives are painfully slow for database work. There is a reason why SCSI/SAS drives are still the choice for high end servers and EIDE/SATA drives aren't. SATA drives are for entry level servers and for servers that don't have large disk loads. For example, a domain controller can get by with SATA drives, but you wouldn't want your database server to do it. Especially if you are talking about a database in the terabyte range in size.

 

[AreEss]

Well, to each his own- at work I've got a Precision 690 and it f'n rocks. And seem as though the processors and memory etc. all are sourced from the same places, I can't see how there could possibly be a huge disparity in performance from a homebrew machine and a $30,000 workstation from Dell. Infact, I think it's asine to think you can match that performance over the long-term considering the support and interoperability garanteed by Dell. And a warranty is a warranty- it doesn't matter what else you buy.

Till something goes wrong. And no, they're not. Dell sources parts from manufacturers, and orders to their specifications - not the same as channel OEM or retail. Period. They have for years, which is why their power supplies are still proprietary. They also have very different QC requirements, which are significantly lower than retail. Secondly, please don't make me laugh - Dell makes no claims of interoperability beyond "uh, you should buy our stuff 'cause we won't support anything else." I have witnessed them telling someone that a bad ethernet card was because of their Nortel switch and that it would not be a warranty repair. To say nothing of the fact that a $30K Dell machine can be ordered from just about any of the other majors for 20% less - Dell will not discount to businesses unless you cross their super-secret threshold. The threshold to get what IBM does for me on small orders is in excess of $2M of business per year.

As for the 750GB drives- I was implying that you need at least a minimum 20 drives period for just storage. If you are so hell bent on performance and want to go 15k SAS drives- you are looking at more like 200 73GB drives- at $450 a pop and 16 drives per $1500 3U rack. That's about $100,000, not including other parts such as RAID cards, backplanes or software.

If you want to do it wrong, sure. If you want to do it right, SATA still isn't an acceptable answer. I do it for a living. 10k 300GB drives are sufficient for conversion, but homebrew cabs and stacks of MegaRAIDs? Uh, no. You're talking a significant chunk for something akin to an IBM DS4700 (about the best bang for the buck out there,) where you actually get some support and proper FC attach. ~6TB will run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $150-200K depending on your VAR and existing points. (Not that I had one quoted out recently at 8TB.) You really, really need to defer to people who know storage in the future.

And by the way- lawyers don't handle taxes and depreciation- accountants do.

*shrug* I don't think anybody would confuse me for an accountant.

 

[jen4950]

Till something goes wrong. And no, they're not. Dell sources parts from manufacturers, and orders to their specifications - not the same as channel OEM or retail. Period. They have for years, which is why their power supplies are still proprietary. They also have very different QC requirements, which are significantly lower than retail. Secondly, please don't make me laugh - Dell makes no claims of interoperability beyond "uh, you should buy our stuff 'cause we won't support anything else." I have witnessed them telling someone that a bad ethernet card was because of their Nortel switch and that it would not be a warranty repair. To say nothing of the fact that a $30K Dell machine can be ordered from just about any of the other majors for 20% less - Dell will not discount to businesses unless you cross their super-secret threshold. The threshold to get what IBM does for me on small orders is in excess of $2M of business per year.



If you want to do it wrong, sure. If you want to do it right, SATA still isn't an acceptable answer. I do it for a living. 10k 300GB drives are sufficient for conversion, but homebrew cabs and stacks of MegaRAIDs? Uh, no. You're talking a significant chunk for something akin to an IBM DS4700 (about the best bang for the buck out there,) where you actually get some support and proper FC attach. ~6TB will run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $150-200K depending on your VAR and existing points. (Not that I had one quoted out recently at 8TB.) You really, really need to defer to people who know storage in the future.



*shrug* I don't think anybody would confuse me for an accountant.

Well, clearly I had you misbranded- I mean doing $2 million a year with IBM, and playing around with $300,000 worth of equipment- I wouldn't think you would be gaming on your work equipment. I thought your budget and workload was alot less, and frankly you sounded like you were doing this on the side.

If you're a big player and have a ton of cash to throw at it, I'd think you'd keep your work seperate from play to avoid tough questions when you get audited.

You may know storage, but I know how to run a business. So happy sailing- good luck with your venture..

 

[Dan_D]

Well, clearly I had you misbranded- I mean doing $2 million a year with IBM, and playing around with $300,000 worth of equipment- I wouldn't think you would be gaming on your work equipment. I thought your budget and workload was alot less, and frankly you sounded like you were doing this on the side.

If you're a big player and have a ton of cash to throw at it, I'd think you'd keep your work seperate from play to avoid tough questions when you get audited.

You may know storage, but I know how to run a business. So happy sailing- good luck with your venture..

AreEss is correct concerning storage and this particular application. You do not want to use SATA drives for that type of purpose. SATA isn't robust enough to handle the kind of load we are talking about here. Disk I/O is one of the most fundemental areas of performance in database applications and most businesses overlook it. They order servers with woefully inadequate storage solutions for thier needs in the vein of saving money.

What you should understand is that the increased time it takes to run the applications and to do the work plus any downtime if something goes wrong actually costs you money. There is a median somewhere between what's cost effective and doing the job right, but your talking about homebrew PC's essentially or low end Dell servers running SATA drives on crappy controllers. You can't look at a stack of Raptors or 750GB Seagate drives attached to a $600 MegaRAID controller and think of it as high end because it isn't.

 

[jen4950]

AreEss is correct concerning storage and this particular application. You do not want to use SATA drives for that type of purpose. SATA isn't robust enough to handle the kind of load we are talking about here. Disk I/O is one of the most fundemental areas of performance in database applications and most businesses overlook it. They order servers with woefully inadequate storage solutions for thier needs in the vein of saving money.

What you should understand is that the increased time it takes to run the applications and to do the work plus any downtime if something goes wrong actually costs you money. There is a median somewhere between what's cost effective and doing the job right, but your talking about homebrew PC's essentially or low end Dell servers running SATA drives on crappy controllers. You can't look at a stack of Raptors or 750GB Seagate drives attached to a $600 MegaRAID controller and think of it as high end because it isn't.

And of course, stupid me, I was thinking that AreEss was the OP; that why I got off on my tangent- I thought he was talking about using SATA drives and making a homebrew machine.. Note to self, pay more attention..

 

[Dan_D]

And of course, stupid me, I was thinking that AreEss was the OP; that why I got off on my tangent- I thought he was talking about using SATA drives and making a homebrew machine.. Note to self, pay more attention..

Ok, I was reading back through wondering where it was AreEss was talking about playing games on his work machine. I was like "WTF is this guy talking about?"

Glad that's cleared up.

 

[AreEss]

Ok, I was reading back through wondering where it was AreEss was talking about playing games on his work machine. I was like "WTF is this guy talking about?"

Glad that's cleared up.

Hey!
I'll have you know that WoW absolutely FLIES on dual Opteron 256's @ 3.0 and dual 3DLabs REALiZM 800's, especially with the 15kRPM SCSI-U320 RAID1.