Probably buying base MacBook Pro 14"

Quiz

Quiz

Gawd
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Thinking of buying a base model MacBook Pro 14" with the M2 Pro, 16 GB RAM, and 512 GB SSD. However, based on the MacRumors Buyer's Guide, the MacBook Pro 14" and 16" are currently categorized as "Caution - Approaching End of Cycle." My question is, are new 14" models due soon in January? I've heard rumors that they are likely to come out "early" 2024 which could mean not as early as January. I wouldn't really want to buy now if they are due as soon as January 2024.
 
That's about the extent of what I've picked up as well. Apple usually held an announcement or event on October for MacOS and new Mac hardware, but Sonoma was just released without any fanfare. There's also typically something in January (when the M2 Pro was released). So... *shrug*...

There's been very little about what the M3 might even be, whether it's more incremental like the M2 was, or a bigger leap (e.g., more cores). IIRC there may be a node upgrade, so maybe some power reduction/speed increase from that.

I'd say don't worry too much about it. If your present system is lacking and holding you back, replace it. If not, wait and see. If buying now maybe hit up the recertified store where they're $300 off new and that'll take some sting off when the M3 does come out (or sell it for far less of a loss).
 
If you are buying now, you want to buy a M2 Max, not a M2 because the M3 could release early next year.

Personally, I suggest just opting for the base M2 Max. For $500 more you get the far superior chip, and you get 32GB of RAM.

If you really only need the base M2, I honestly believe the 15'' MacBook Air is the better choice at that point versus the Pro. Pro is only worth getting if you're getting a Max chip.
 
Mchart said:
If you are buying now, you want to buy a M2 Max, not a M2 because the M3 could release early next year.

Personally, I suggest just opting for the base M2 Max. For $500 more you get the far superior chip, and you get 32GB of RAM.

If you really only need the base M2, I honestly believe the 15'' MacBook Air is the better choice at that point versus the Pro. Pro is only worth getting if you're getting a Max chip.
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Uhhh kinda disagree with that assessment.

In the Mac Mini, the difference between getting an M2 and an M2 Pro is the difference between a machine that can and cannot edit 4k footage. So I’d say your work load matters a heck of a lot. The M2 Pro is about as fast as M1 Max, that’s a fabulous result in terms of speed.


To answer OP’s question, from all my reading I expect M3 and variants to show up Q1 2024. If you want to buy today, I’d recommend buying a used one.

You can buy an M1 Pro base for pennys on the dollar. Or a refurbished M2 Pro directly from Apple for at least 10% off.
 
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If I order a new one from the online Apple Store today, will the laptop come with the latest version of macOS (Sonoma) installed or is it too "early" for that and it will come with the previous version?
 
Quiz said:
If I order a new one from the online Apple Store today, will the laptop come with the latest version of macOS (Sonoma) installed or is it too "early" for that and it will come with the previous version?
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If it's a custom build it will come with the latest. If it's one of the one's with immediate ship / availability (These are the one's where you click to buy, and don't change anything on the configuration tool) it will likely still have Ventura of some sort.
 
I don't think that we will have M3 by January 2024, especially not in the 14" and 16" models.

Also, the step from M1 to M2 was a disappointment and many felt silly for waiting.
 
Most single-generational upgrades aren’t worth it for most workloads unless you’re also upgrading something else with it, i.e., 256 GB to 2 TB SSD, 16 GB to 32 GB RAM, 14” to 16” screen, etc. Going from an M2 to an M3 may not be worth it but going from an M1 to an M3 (assuming base to base, Pro to Pro, or Max to Max) almost certainly will be, IMO.
 
Since this laptop is probably replacing my current desktop PC, what can I do to preserve the battery as it will be used plugged-in 24/7? I read around and found that there is an app called AIDente that can limit the charge level when plugged-in. This will be good enough to preserve the battery?

https://apphousekitchen.com/
 
Quiz said:
Since this laptop is probably replacing my current desktop PC, what can I do to preserve the battery as it will be used plugged-in 24/7? I read around and found that there is an app called AIDente that can limit the charge level when plugged-in. This will be good enough to preserve the battery?

https://apphousekitchen.com/
Click to expand...

Apple has built this into OSX for a few versions by now. Laptops will only charge to 80% when the OS detects that you are usually plugged in, and you can say "charge to full now".
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Uhhh kinda disagree with that assessment.

In the Mac Mini, the difference between getting an M2 and an M2 Pro is the difference between a machine that can and cannot edit 4k footage. So I’d say your work load matters a heck of a lot. The M2 Pro is about as fast as M1 Max, that’s a fabulous result in terms of speed.


To answer OP’s question, from all my reading I expect M3 and variants to show up Q1 2024. If you want to buy today, I’d recommend buying a used one.

You can buy an M1 Pro base for pennys on the dollar. Or a refurbished M2 Pro directly from Apple for at least 10% off.
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I just don't see the point of buying the base Pro when only $500 will get you such a huge upgrade I guess. 16GB of RAM is NOT enough IMO, and if you only upgrade the RAM to 32GB it's $400. Where as $500 gets you the 32GB RAM + 30 core Max. It's the most cost effective upgrade of the entire line-up. And remember - RAM is super important on these things since it's shared between system and GPU.
 
Base model bought. Ships in 1-2 weeks as per online store. This is my first Mac.
 
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Quiz said:
I'm in the UAE and have to use the UAE Apple Store. However, I still prefer to buy new.
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You can do whatever you’d like. But for those who don’t know Apple’s product stack well, their refurbished products are basically the same as new with a discounted price.
They come with the same warranty. The same stuff in the box. You may even choose extended Apple care for the 3 years with refurbished products. I’ve bought several. If given the opportunity I’ll always get their refurbished items because unlike other companies - they are indistinguishable from new.

This is especially in light that you were trying to save money.
Mchart said:
I just don't see the point of buying the base Pro when only $500 will get you such a huge upgrade I guess. 16GB of RAM is NOT enough IMO, and if you only upgrade the RAM to 32GB it's $400. Where as $500 gets you the 32GB RAM + 30 core Max. It's the most cost effective upgrade of the entire line-up. And remember - RAM is super important on these things since it's shared between system and GPU.
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Look, I see what you’re saying, but your initial suggestion was to buy a base M2 instead of an M2 Pro. Now you’re discussing things like RAM and core counts not being enough.

So here is the breakdown there:
A base M2 Air comes with 8GB of Ram and costs $1300. If you want to raise that machine to 16GB and 512GB, it’s a $1700 machine. If you want to get it with 24GB (because 16GB even according to you isn’t enough) it’s a $1900 machine.

A base M2 Pro isn’t just a little faster than an M2 Macbook Air, it is again the difference between 4k workflows and not. It’s the difference between having real GPU power and not. VS even a 24GB M2 Air, the 16GB Base M2 Pro is a flat out much faster machine. And that isn’t even looking at all the other benefits such as the much better display (having access to 1600 peak nitts HDR and 120Hz, both of which most will benefit from daily), or much better connectivity (SD card, more TB4 ports, etc). I get what you’re saying that there is a decent sized leap by spending that $500, but the difference here between the Air and Pro in terms of cost is a lot narrower and the delta between performance in all aspects is a lot greater.

Now for the buyer that $2000 is a stretch, that additional $500 may or may not be a significant additional sum of money. You’re saying that it’s “not much” but that is a 25% increase in price. What I’m saying is 25% to most people “isn’t nothing”. Agree/disagree, but if you have a $2000 budget, $500 is more than a stretch. That’s 1.5 car payments for a lot of people. Or insurance for 5 months. Etc.

EDIT: I also just went through their configurator and it’s not a $500 price difference. It’s an $900 price difference. To take the base model and select the lowest end 30 core GPU Max (which also forces 32GB of RAM as you note) costs $899 more. Further exacerbating my point. You may have thought differently because it “just” says +500 under the CPU side, but Apple also charges you for the “forced” 32GB RAM upgrade which is another $400.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/...2-pro-with-10-core-cpu-and-16-core-gpu-512gb#
That is a lot of money above $2000. It’s a 45% increase. Yeah, no. Not viable for most people looking to spend $2000.
 
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My use case for the laptop is only "light daily stuff" like web browsing, music, videos, Microsoft Office, etc. No gaming or photo/video editing. I know I could have been fine with a MacBook Air but wanted the much better screen of the Pro.
 
Quiz said:
My use case for the laptop is only "light daily stuff" like web browsing, music, videos, Microsoft Office, etc. No gaming or photo/video editing. I know I could have been fine with a MacBook Air but wanted the much better screen of the Pro.
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More than fair. My suggestion was mostly based around saving that additional $300, which is basically “free”. But yes, in terms of my long diatribe, I agree with you.
Base Macbook Pro 14 > Upgraded MBA 15.
 
Quiz said:
Since this laptop is probably replacing my current desktop PC, what can I do to preserve the battery as it will be used plugged-in 24/7? I read around and found that there is an app called AIDente that can limit the charge level when plugged-in. This will be good enough to preserve the battery?

https://apphousekitchen.com/
Click to expand...
uOpt said:
Apple has built this into OSX for a few versions by now. Laptops will only charge to 80% when the OS detects that you are usually plugged in, and you can say "charge to full now".
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It's a pretty neat little feature. I noticed it on my M2 Air.

Screenshot 2023-09-30 at 15.13.32.png
 
Quiz said:
My use case for the laptop is only "light daily stuff" like web browsing, music, videos, Microsoft Office, etc. No gaming or photo/video editing. I know I could have been fine with a MacBook Air but wanted the much better screen of the Pro.
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The 120Hz ProMotion screen is sweet on the MBP, but I was pleasantly surprised at how good the screen is on my M2 Air. However, if I used a laptop as my primary computer, I definitely would've gone with an MBP for the screen alone.
 
By the way, I just want to confirm if a 512 GB SSD is enough storage space for a general use laptop? Most I'll have installed is probably Microsoft Office, some pictures and videos from my iPhone, few more apps like Steam (but not using it for gaming), etc.

Edit: I'm pretty sure 16 GB RAM is enough too, correct? I don't have many apps open at the same time.

Edit #2: Is there a big difference between M2 Pro 10-core vs. the M2 Pro 12-core that are available with the MacBook Pro 14"?

Edit #3: Found out the 512 GB SSD in the MacBook Pro 14" is slower than the 1 TB and higher size SSDs. Something to be concerned about?
 
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Quiz said:
By the way, I just want to confirm if a 512 GB SSD is enough storage space for a general use laptop? Most I'll have installed is probably Microsoft Office, some pictures and videos from my iPhone, few more apps like Steam (but not using it for gaming), etc.
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Depends on what you have installed and what you want to do of course.

I personally always get 1TB of internal storage. But I generally also have a lot of large apps and local things I’m trying to run. Having more is always nice, but with Apple I admit there is a balancing act between size and cost.
Quiz said:
Edit: I'm pretty sure 16 GB RAM is enough too, correct? I don't have many apps open at the same time.
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Again, depends on what you want to do. Browsing, office, Streaming? More than enough.

Video editing, graphics design, 3d rendering? No. Possible to do it, but it’s going to be a slow time when you’re slamming against the RAM cap constantly.
Quiz said:
Edit #2: Is there a big difference between M2 Pro 10-core vs. the M2 Pro 12-core that are available with the MacBook Pro 14"?
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Big? I dunno, check benches. I would argue that Apple should probably simplify the lineup somewhat. Not sure how many delineations in chips are necessary.

There are two M2 configurations, two Pro, configurations, two Max configurations, and two Ultra configurations. It would take a serious bench-marker a lot of time to really be able to say just how much or little performance difference there is between them. And then trying to track down whether it’s down to RAM limitations, frequency, multi-core, or GPU when all of those things all sit on a single chip would also be a pain.

The answer is it’s complicated. And you’d have to find not only a site that benches all that, but you’d also have to know your applications to know if the speed benefit vs the cost is worth it or not.
Quiz said:
Edit #3: Found out the 512 GB SSD in the MacBook Pro 14" is slower than the 1 TB and higher size SSDs. Something to be concerned about?
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For office tasks? Again, no. It’s only going to matter if you’re doing tasks that require a lot of throughput constantly. For most people the difference will be indistinguishable unless you’re doing something that does a lot of read/writing to the drive. And generally that isn’t most people.

I’ll put it like this, if you were one of the people that needed more throughput, you’d likely know it.
 
Thanks.

Will the SSD speed difference be noticed when installing apps?
 
Quiz said:
Thanks.

Will the SSD speed difference be noticed when installing apps?
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Unlikely.

The speed difference is roughly 3500MB/s vs 7000MB/s. That sounds like a lot because it’s “2x the performance”.
3500MB/s however isn’t slow. That’s still just as fast or faster than most PCI-E Gen3 NVME drives. It’s still 7x faster than an SATA SSD.

The thing about throughput like this is that there will always be a bottleneck somewhere. I’d imagine you’ll have problems with CPU throughput issues long before you run into NVME throughput issues unless your goal is to run massive SQL calls onto a 1 million table data base that you want to run locally on your laptop for some reason. And even in that case you might have just as much of an issue with CPU overhead vs trying to push IOPS on the drive.

Installing programs I’d imagine the difference would be hard to measure and inside margin of error.
 
Are the SSDs in Macs setup in a RAID configuration? Just wondering because when they are more memory chips, there is higher performance. 512 GB SSD = 2 chips. 1 TB SSD = 4 chips.
 
Quiz said:
Are the SSDs in Macs setup in a RAID configuration? Just wondering because when they are more memory chips, there is higher performance. 512 GB SSD = 2 chips. 1 TB SSD = 4 chips.
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It’s 1 chips vs 2 chips.
It’s not raid in the traditional sense. But yes what is happening is that both chips are being addressed at once.
 
My work laptop is a 16” MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro, 16 GB RAM and a 2 TB hard drive. My company is an Adobe/Microsoft 365 shop (I’m a video producer). Admittedly, my video workflow is 1080p source/720p export but I have no memory issues with most applications open and editing/exporting footage.

The M2 processor base edition has some of the video codec features that required the Pro or higher from the M1 line. Additionally, the processor is faster. Apple decided to use different chips for accessing its SSDs so some of the lower capacity SSDs are ‘slower’ than the larger capacity versions (due to how many chips are used for throughput). While this difference is easily noticed via benchmarks, it’s not generally noticed in most real-world applications.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Do fewer chips = higher reliability?
 
Algrim said:
My work laptop is a 16” MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro, 16 GB RAM and a 2 TB hard drive. My company is an Adobe/Microsoft 365 shop (I’m a video producer). Admittedly, my video workflow is 1080p source/720p export but I have no memory issues with most applications open and editing/exporting footage.

The M2 processor base edition has some of the video codec features that required the Pro or higher from the M1 line. Additionally, the processor is faster. Apple decided to use different chips for accessing its SSDs so some of the lower capacity SSDs are ‘slower’ than the larger capacity versions (due to how many chips are used for throughput). While this difference is easily noticed via benchmarks, it’s not generally noticed in most real-world applications.
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FWIW, you can do 4k on a base M2 Pro too, it’s just that moving to 32GB (even before upgrading the processor) just helps the system to not have to be constantly caching. So you can edit in 4k on 16GB of RAM, it just won’t be a fun experience (FCPX might “just” be okay here, but for sure on Resolve you’ll have a bad time). 1080p is 1/4 the throughput. I was editing 1080p footage on a 2011 iMac, for reference. It takes far less system resources than 4k. However most of YouTube is still 1080p, so it’s a very viable machine if that’s all you need.

What you’re saying is a good reference point.

Quiz said:
Thanks for the replies.

Do fewer chips = higher reliability?
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The answer is no. The fallacy of RAID 0 causing greater failures has been debunked. Basically it comes down to: if all your stuff was on one drive vs split into two, either way a failure means you’ve lost all your data. And because reliability for each individual drive is the same, your odds do not go up or down. Statistically it’s the same.

If the drives could be the same size and it was 1 vs 2, theoretically write cycles would be the next thing to come into play next. EDIT misspoke: if you have 512GB on 1 drive vs spread out on 2 drives, the reliablity is actually the same. The SSD wear is literally down to size and size alone. 2x 256GB and 1x 512GB would theoretically last the same length if they both had the same amounts of writes. You will gain reliability moving from 512gb to 1tb, not because there are two chips, but because writes will be spread out over a larger drive.
The other issue on specifically Apple devices is that if you run out of RAM the system uses the SSD to cache. Meaning if you’re frequently hitting your RAM limit, you’re also doing a lot of additional writes/reads. In that case theoretically having a larger drive is better for reliability.

However we’re still talking about writes in the millions. You could probably write 128GB every day for 10 years and not reach the lifespan of the drive. Again, for Office stuff? It’s beyond not worrying about it. If you were someone who was going to do a lot of heavy IOPS stuff, you’d know it. And so far there is zero indication that you’re doing anything all that write intensive.
 
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Any recommendations for a laptop sleeve/bag and USB dock?
 
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I would say both items are highly personal.

For docks there are a couple very reputable brands. Satechi, OWC, Anker, CalDigit, Belkin.
Though you will have to read full reviews to ensure that there are no gotchas from any particular dock, the above should be a good starting place to look for at least the features and price range you want.

As for bag? You kidding me? I’m a bit of a bag whore/snob, and I’ll tell you right now that it ranges so widely based around size, cost, features, brand, and all the other things you could want to carry or not carry. Minimalist, maximalist - etc. There is no way to give a recommendation unless there is some ballpark in there of what you want. But even there I’ve basically never taken a bag recommendation. Mostly because I’m so particular, but even if you’re not there has to be some level of requirements that you have.

Sleeves are whatever. If you want the most obvious option just get a Case Logic. But again there the sky is the limit. You can find crazy fashion ones or whatever too. Though I’d say it’s dubious whether all these extra fancy sleeves offer significantly better protection regardless of price.
 
Need to a dock for USB-A and USB-C ports and, maybe, a GbE port.
 
Quiz said:
Need to a dock for USB-A and USB-C ports and, maybe, a GbE port.
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Keep in mind these laptops have faster wireless than 1gbps wired. In the office mine is in the same room as my 6e router and the speeds are very fast since 6e is largely uncontested right now.
 
Then probably just for USB-A and USB-C ports. Will do some of my own research as well.
 
Quiz said:
Then probably just for USB-A and USB-C ports. Will do some of my own research as well.
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Again, going to come down to what you want. All true Thunderbolt Docks all will have external power and actual USB-C Thunderbolt out ports. Which IMHO is worth the price of admisison. The cheapest ones will generally give 85w of power and have at least 3x Thunderbolt 4 out ports at around $200. Ones with all the bells/whistles/ports can get up to nearly $400. Which is a bit much on a computer you spent $2000 on.

In contrast to that, there are USB-C hubs. But I don’t recommend them, because Apple doesn’t support 2x2. Meaning bandwidth over USB-C tops out at 1000MB/s across all of the ports. Using two devices on the dock then means you’re dividing the bandwidth between the two devices. If you’re copying an hard drive to hard drive or to a thumb drive or whatever, you’d be limited by the 1000MB/s total overhead. Thunderbolt 4 at 40Gbps a second bi-directional has significantly less limitations when using multiple devices. However, if all you want is a “cheap” way to plug all your stuff in, it’s a viable option. Often can find them for $50-$100.
 
Mchart said:
Keep in mind these laptops have faster wireless than 1gbps wired. In the office mine is in the same room as my 6e router and the speeds are very fast since 6e is largely uncontested right now.
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With 6e yeah you can beat 1Gb under proper conditions. Wifi 6 too, but the 5Ghz band is more congested. Still can't beat cabled connections though. Thunderbolt can handle 10Gb ethernet no problem, though the cheapest I've seen is maybe $300. Lots of Thunderbolt docks can do 2.5Gb. I've got a $300 Pluggable Thunderbolt 4 dock I use with my work Mac that supports 2.5Gb. Mostly I bought it for the 100W power output since my previous work Mac was a 2019 16" Intel model. "H" CPU, discreet GPU, etc. Had it been a personal Mac I probably would have gotten the $400 model from a competitor since it had more downstream USB-C ports, but my work Mac is so locked down all I really cared about was power delivery, video outputs, and having some sort of wired ethernet. And USB for input devices of course, but you always get that. Work VPN can't get close to 1Gb, so the only reason I have 2.5Gb is the model that checked all the other boxes happened to come with it. Now I'm kind of regretting it a wee little bit because I no longer need the power delivery.

A few weeks ago work swapped it out for a 16" M2 Pro. I'm pretty disappointed with it. Old Intel Mac was 4.3lbs. New Apple Silicon Mac is 4.7lbs. Battery life on the new one is overkill and it weighs too much. It's supposed to be lighter goddammit! I've been meaning to get the original Fat Mac (1984 model) I have in a box in my basement out and make a meme about that. Hopefully it can still power up and make the sad face it makes when it doesn't have a boot disk. On that note, anyone know where to get a boot floppy for a 1984 Mac? Someone gave it to me back in 2005 or so but they didn't have a boot disk. Fortunately I don't need a boot disk to make the meme I have in mind. The default no boot disk sad face will do just fine.
 
zandor said:
With 6e yeah you can beat 1Gb under proper conditions. Wifi 6 too, but the 5Ghz band is more congested. Still can't beat cabled connections though. Thunderbolt can handle 10Gb ethernet no problem, though the cheapest I've seen is maybe $300. Lots of Thunderbolt docks can do 2.5Gb. I've got a $300 Pluggable Thunderbolt 4 dock I use with my work Mac that supports 2.5Gb. Mostly I bought it for the 100W power output since my previous work Mac was a 2019 16" Intel model. "H" CPU, discreet GPU, etc. Had it been a personal Mac I probably would have gotten the $400 model from a competitor since it had more downstream USB-C ports, but my work Mac is so locked down all I really cared about was power delivery, video outputs, and having some sort of wired ethernet. And USB for input devices of course, but you always get that. Work VPN can't get close to 1Gb, so the only reason I have 2.5Gb is the model that checked all the other boxes happened to come with it. Now I'm kind of regretting it a wee little bit because I no longer need the power delivery.

A few weeks ago work swapped it out for a 16" M2 Pro. I'm pretty disappointed with it. Old Intel Mac was 4.3lbs. New Apple Silicon Mac is 4.7lbs. Battery life on the new one is overkill and it weighs too much. It's supposed to be lighter goddammit! I've been meaning to get the original Fat Mac (1984 model) I have in a box in my basement out and make a meme about that. Hopefully it can still power up and make the sad face it makes when it doesn't have a boot disk. On that note, anyone know where to get a boot floppy for a 1984 Mac? Someone gave it to me back in 2005 or so but they didn't have a boot disk. Fortunately I don't need a boot disk to make the meme I have in mind. The default no boot disk sad face will do just fine.
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The 2019 16" Intel one is an underrated machine. Especially if you run lots of x86 VMs.

Battery life? Well you can carry it from one outlet to another, most of the time...
 
zandor said:
With 6e yeah you can beat 1Gb under proper conditions. Wifi 6 too, but the 5Ghz band is more congested. Still can't beat cabled connections though. Thunderbolt can handle 10Gb ethernet no problem, though the cheapest I've seen is maybe $300. Lots of Thunderbolt docks can do 2.5Gb. I've got a $300 Pluggable Thunderbolt 4 dock I use with my work Mac that supports 2.5Gb. Mostly I bought it for the 100W power output since my previous work Mac was a 2019 16" Intel model. "H" CPU, discreet GPU, etc. Had it been a personal Mac I probably would have gotten the $400 model from a competitor since it had more downstream USB-C ports, but my work Mac is so locked down all I really cared about was power delivery, video outputs, and having some sort of wired ethernet. And USB for input devices of course, but you always get that. Work VPN can't get close to 1Gb, so the only reason I have 2.5Gb is the model that checked all the other boxes happened to come with it. Now I'm kind of regretting it a wee little bit because I no longer need the power delivery.

A few weeks ago work swapped it out for a 16" M2 Pro. I'm pretty disappointed with it. Old Intel Mac was 4.3lbs. New Apple Silicon Mac is 4.7lbs. Battery life on the new one is overkill and it weighs too much. It's supposed to be lighter goddammit! I've been meaning to get the original Fat Mac (1984 model) I have in a box in my basement out and make a meme about that. Hopefully it can still power up and make the sad face it makes when it doesn't have a boot disk. On that note, anyone know where to get a boot floppy for a 1984 Mac? Someone gave it to me back in 2005 or so but they didn't have a boot disk. Fortunately I don't need a boot disk to make the meme I have in mind. The default no boot disk sad face will do just fine.
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https://www.rescuemyclassicmac.com/page/buyadisk.html
 
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