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Dome

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
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so i'm buying a house! i'm buying my parent's house from them, and i love it, but it needs a lot of work, and i don't have a lot of money.

the home theater will have to come together slowly, so help me plan the steps. i have almost nothing atm.

i have some comfortable furniture, xbox360 w/ hd-dvd, 5.1 HTIB (cheap) and a crappy 27inch tv.

i need a good tv, better sound, a media server, and whatever else you can suggest. i don't need to get the elaborate theater seats or decoration, but i do want an experience that's solid and enjoyable. also, i see myself being able to afford this stuff slowly, over 6 months or so, so i'm not in a huge hurry.

thanks for the help
 
Well, an amplifier will do you no good without speakers. Similarly, a projector/flat panel will do you no good without sound. I'd suggest you price out a complete system, and continue to update your wishlist until you've saved up enough to do it all at once. Pulling it together bit by bit means 6 months of depreciation on what you buy first, before you even get to enjoy having it all come together - and there may be newer/better/less expensive things on the market by then, or Superbowl deals on big screens, etc.

Audioholics has system recommendations based on budget tiers, so you can take a look at not only the components they suggest, but the methodology they discuss. That's a great starting point for doing your own research.
 
If you are really skint, there are some pretty good 32" LCD HDTVs that will get you by for computer and TV / multimedia.

Buy second hand Hifi parts, there are some truly amazing bargains to be had.
Careful of second hand speakers with foam edges to the cones as the foam can rip or split, especially really old speakers.
Make sure the foam isnt damaged before buying.

Dont scrimp on the subwoofer, get a well recommended one that goes deep (down to around 20Hz preferably).
You should still be able to get a good sub cheap if you take your time and shop around.

How do you like your hifi to sound?
Do you prefer a laid back sound or do you prefer to hear bright treble?
For laid back, get Soft Dome Tweeter speakers.
For brighter treble, get Metal Dome Tweeter speakers.
Dont mix and match soft dome / metal dome speakers, get all speakers of the same type.

If you dont mind manually switching audio and video sources, use the TV to select your video input and have each 5.1 device connected separately to your hifi amp.
This way you can get a cheaper (non HDMI) AV Amp but still get good quality sound.
 
i'm not so broke that i'll need to settle for lower quality. but i would prefer not to drop more than 3-4k all at once. still, if you think that's the best way to do it, maybe i'll see what i can come up with

thanks for the help

as for the sound, my movies are the most important. video games and music is whatever to me, as long as i can hear it. movies though i want as much quality as is reasonable.
 
If you want practically the best TV/Video and gaming experience for cheap, the new 42" and higher Panasonic Plasmas are a steal !
I have the 42PZ80B 1080p set and its simply stunning.

Using Eco mode for the PC web browsing, I havent suffered any burnin at all, nada, with up to 16hrs a day on PC for exactly 1 calendar month now.

Price in the UK is around £760 and I imagine about 2/3 of that in the US.
 
before i found out i had to buy a house i had my eye set on the 50pz85. i just need to see if it fits into my budget along w/ sound and stuff.

it is my understanding that a good sound system can be built piecemeal; is this correct?

would it be possible for me to buy a sub, receiver and 2 speakers for starters, and then add to it down the line? or is it like everything else where i should build it all at once?

i have a lot of cleaning and painting and such that i need to do, so i don't need to bring a ton of equipment home immediately.

do you guys think that i could do quality sound setup for a thousand to do a 50in plasma justice?
 
Heh, good choice of Plasma :)
You will love it !!

Yes, you can put your hifi together in stages.
For the easiest chance of getting an outstanding surround experience, choose front speakers that have matching centre and surrounds which you can easily buy later.
I most definitely recommend big floorstanding speakers for the front pair.
The surrounds dont have to match the power handling of the front speakers as the amplifier is going to determine the actual power delivered more than anything.


I'm running different mfr fronts to the centre/surrounds but was lucky that I auditioned them together first as I was going to replace all the speakers with same mfr.
So mixing mfrs/models can work very well but exercise lots of caution.
fyi:
I'm running Acoustic Energy Aegis centre and surrounds (soft dome 175W centre, 100W rears) and Mission 754 fronts (soft dome 250W).
My sub is the old but very deep REL Strata II. It is one of the earliest tunable subwoofers from a quality manufacturer.
You can pick up the above for really very little now and with a true 100W/channel or above AV amp, it will have more power than you need and sounds gorgeous :)

Ebay is a very good place to get second hand speakers.
Take your time and read up on what is for sale, the internet is a great place to find user and professional reviews.
Dont make snap decisions unless you know its a solid purchase and is what you want.

If you get a chance to borrow some friends speakers you can get an idea of how much difference a speaker can make (it depends how good the speakers are too).
It could help you decide on the type of sound you want or at least give you some ideas.

Use a cheap Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) speaker wire to reduce losses.
Make sure you use genuine OFC as many cheaper cables are misleadingly advertised.
I recommend at least 13Amp mains wire thickness, preferably 2 to 4 times the cross sectional area.
Some of the more expensive wires come in a thin gauge and are very good but when choosing a cheaper cable its a safer bet to fatten the gauge a bit otherwise it can change the bass too much.
 
My suggestion is get the TV first, then replace the front towers and center channel of your HTIB set, then pick up an amp last. Amps tend to change more than speakers so you're not likely to spend $ on speakers and have them depreciate quickly.

That's how I replaced stuff in my home theatre setup... I've got a Harman/Kardon 245 amp, and all SoundStage speakers (replaced towers of my HTIB first, then centre channel, then the amp, then the bookshelves for surround) but the towers are only 3.5" drivers so I'd like to replace 'em with 5" towers for the fronts and use the 3.5" driver towers for the rear surround, just can't afford to replace 'em atm.

Couple other recommended accessories... Logitech Harmony remote: the 880 or One are decently priced for what you get, and you can program them to control MCE or other HTPC front ends through a MCE ir receiver.

Home Theatre PC... there's lots of ideas about that... you can go slim and quiet, onboard video with a AMD chipset board, and then have the HDs for media storage in a seperate server, or you can get a bigger case and pack the drives into the one box. Really depends on what direction you want to go.
 
i feel like the PC is going to come in last. i'm planning on using it to play the new diablo and starcraft games, so it won't need to be too bad. i won't be afford to keep up w/ the more cutting edge games. but the pc is a different matter.

should i do what that guy was saying and plug new speakers into my existing HTIB or should i go get a new amp, sub and speakers?
 
I was in a similar situation and this is the basic upgrade path I took...

New panny plasma, new center channel, new front surrounds, new sub, new rears, new amp/receiver. I didn't include the PC because I have multiples and change them around all the time. It is a fluid environment so its hard to track. I think the display can make or break a theater where sound is subjective. I would rather watch a good TV and a good stereo setup than a good surround setup on a crappy TV.
 
and your upgrading went pretty smooth? i'm definately doing a tv first, then i think the progression for my sound will be:

front speakers
sub
amp
rear
center

thanks for the help guys
 
Dome said:
and your upgrading went pretty smooth? i'm definately doing a tv first, then i think the progression for my sound will be:

front speakers
sub
amp
rear
center

thanks for the help guys
Click to expand...

If your theater is used mostly for movies and games, the center channel is your most important speaker in your system. The numbers vary, but I have seen stats that say anywhere from 60-80% of your movie sound come from the center, and i believe it. Also, some of the most important sounds, like dialogue, are almost exclusively from it. Keep in mind I do not know what you have now, but if your amp and fronts are even serviceable, a good center will make the most noticeable impact. You need to select your entire front stage at the same time though. You want them to eventually match to avoid tonal changes across your sound stage. Upgrading your amp before speakers is almost silly because you wont be able to hear the difference on crappy speakers. When doing something in stages, you want each upgrade to offer some satisfaction or noticeable difference. It keeps you motivated.
 
thanks man, that's good to know. i'll keep that in mind. i still have a lot of work to do on speakers, and i haven't started on my media center (nor do i want to yet). my eyes are still set on my future plasma.
 
how necesary is a reciever? i was thinking that i was going to just plug everything into the tv, but is that practical? i know there can be issues with losing quality depending on how you put things together
 
... you can't plug speakers into the TV, if that's what you're asking... A decent amp/receiver is worth it, imo, simplifies everything. My Harman/Kardon amp lets you select which A/V inputs are associated with each preset, and rename each preset to match (ie SageTV, Playstation 2, etc)

My receiver does video upscaling to component, but just switches HDMI. Some time down the road I might look into an upgrade to a full featured HDMI supporting receiver, but for now I'm mostly happy with what I've got.

I agree with IDvsEgo about the center channel being important... I think I grabbed that after my towers. If you've got a passive sub as part of your HTIB, don't bother replacing it until you get a new receiver, as most HTIB receivers don't support powered subs.
 
i was kinda dumb for a second haha. i'm just waiting to repaint my living room before i pull the trigger on the tv. after that i'll probably go for center+front speakers, and then do receiver and sub as soon as i can manage.

i'm pretty sure the answer is no, but are there good wireless rear speakers out there? i'm just thinking how nice it'd be not having the ugly wires to deal with when it comes to surround
 
you can easily fit 16awg speaker wire under baseboards and that is plenty for most surround setups. If you still want wireless, i use a rocketfish wireless adapter from best buy and am happy with it. Needs line of site from 2 pieces and I get an occasional pop when one of them looses connection, but that is like 2 times a week. Its about $100 and you can hook any speaker to it. You still need to be near a power outlet. I stillr ecommend wired if you can possibly do it, but this thing does OK.
 
If your A/V room is on the main floor and you have an unfinished basement under it, running speaker wire is easy - but then again, my after-school job in high school was being a Novell VAR, so I'm used to fishing co-ax through old New England homes that have been converted to office space. So I guess when I say "easy", I mean you can drop wire down a hole without a fish tape, but I'd still suggest you take off some baseboard to hide the hole when you're done ;)

Actually, you may want to start a thread on wiring. There are probably a bunch of us around here with war stories of "that one home run from hell", and if you describe the floor plan of your place we could make some suggestions.

If you want to mount wallboxes and plates with binding posts near the final location of your surrounds, you can do that after you paint. You'll want to move your surrounds (and possibly your furniture) around a bit before everything is settled on a final location. You're paint will still be relatively new, so if you have to touch up anything it will still match :)
 
unfortunately my basement is finished and i have hardwood floor in the room with my tv in it.

depending on what kind of area run i might be able to just run it underneath my entertainment stand, under the carpet and under the couch, but i'm not sure it'll work that well.

i don't want to wallmount tv or speakers because i don't like damaging my walls for something that i might easily change later. i'll probably buy some speaker stands for my rears, and i wanna buy some nice tall fronts.

my room, without measuring, is roughly 10-12 feet wide and very long, but that's because it's got the formal dining area adjacent with no wall to separate. i plan to use 20-25 feet.

i will be using the width of the room, so i'm putting the tv against the long wall and sitting 7-8 feet away (as opposed to sitting like 10-12 feet away). there is a wide doorway (no doors) to the left of the tv, and no wall to the right, so i couldn't get away with running it in the corners.

i will be repainting half of the room so i don't know if that sort of work affords me an opportunity to run wiring.

like i said the basement is finished, although some of it is w/ ceiling tile, so maybe i can look to see if i can run wiring. the big problem is that i have hardwood floors and i dunno if i can bring myself to drill a hold through it.

i hope that gives you guys an image, instead of being really jumbled. remind me to post some pics, i can snap a few off of my phone sometime and upload them maybe.

as for the wireless adapters, i'll definately take a closer look.

thanks again
 
In that case, you have to learn to use a fish tape (through a hole in a wall sill that you drill from the hole you cut in the wall for a retrofit box) ;)

Fishing across a floor or ceiling is easy; just look for a bearing wall on the floor below to give you a hint which way the joists run. Getting the fish tape out on the other end of the room is tricky.

Also, in old-work houses you sometimes find the bay your fishing is blocked or braced ...in which case, the adjacent bay probably is too. That's where you take off a couple tiles or make a small hole in the ceiling, and then go around the bracing. If you have an overhead light in the room, that's the bay to fish - you can get up in the ceiling at the fixture if you need to.

BTW, as a home owner, you'll become familiar with the putty knife, sandpaper, and paint - either because of holes you find, or holes you make. Think of it like case modding ;)
 
damnit i SUCK at case modding...

i'll have my friend in construction help me take a look, might be able to go through the basement
 
ok i've decided on the panasonic 50pz85 (i can't justify the extra cash for the 800)
and i can get a good deal on the denon 3808. for the amount of cash i'll have to drop on that, i won't be able to afford speakers for a while, and will have to use my old htib speakers.

how do you guys feel about a subwoofer? if i'm going to be watching mostly movies and video games, with little music, do i need one? or are there good floor speakers with enough oomph in them to compensate?
 
Just about any front towers with 5" or larger drivers will have decent low range... Not as low as a sub but still good enough to carry you through.

I still say you should hold off on the amp and get new front towers and center channel first... Your new amp will be overkill with your htib speakers and you probably won't notice much of a difference, if at all, over your htib amp.
 
well then that'll be something to consider. i only planned on doing an amp first because my friend can get a great deal on that amp, and he wants to trade me for my computer speaker setup.

what might happen is i'll just go for broke and buy everything at once.

can you give me a suggestion on some nice speakers or at least where to look? i'd like to start at some recommended online stores, unless speakers are better bought in person
 
Dome said:
how do you guys feel about a subwoofer? if i'm going to be watching mostly movies and video games, with little music, do i need one? or are there good floor speakers with enough oomph in them to compensate?
Click to expand...

With good floorstanders/positioning you will get decent bass.
A sub is icing on the cake.

I wont have a system without a sub as I will miss it terribly even though my main speakers are awesome for bass.
I am assuming that you havent heard a well setup sub as you needed to ask the question whether you need one.
Until you have heard/felt a sub set up well, you wont know what it can do for you.
That may be a good thing if you cant afford one yet :)

A sub adds another dimension to everything, movies, music, games...
Speakers can often go down to 40Hz and some a little lower if chosen well and set up well.
A good sub will get down to around 20Hz which is hard/impossible to hear and is only felt.
Modern subs allow you to tune them sound to match your hifi/environment so you can have it seemlessly integrated and as quiet/loud as is comfortable.

For example when there is an in game or in movie explosion, you dont just get the sound of the explosion and a good boom, a sub will let you feel it too.
Also there is detail in the bass which often cannot be perceived without a subwoofer.
So it does add another dimension added to the sound.

ps nice Plasma :D
 
does that mean i should spend less on the floor speakers? i don't wanna go too cheap, but i definately don't want to waste too much money, seeing as how i'm planning to spend so much
 
If you have chosen a speaker that you like/want, I cant advise you against buying them.
Upgrade in stages if finances dictate, dont get something if you wish you had got something else.
 
Heh, what a question.
I cannot answer that in any other meaningful way really.

I spend what is necessary on a speaker to get the sound I like and have gone through numerous different speakers before settling on what I have now.
I have made mistakes too as some speakers just werent for me and thats what its all about really, choosing what you like. I dont know what that costs.

Its a tough thing to advise on.
My only big pearl of wisdom is buy second hand as you can get a much better speaker for the same or less cash.
Read reviews galore from users and Pro's and take your time choosing. Try to give yourself a few options.
I sometimes spend years reading up before buying.
 
ok so i'm closing friday on the house. i'm still going to have to wait a bit, seeing as the downpayment is basically emptying out my bank account. i'm planning on buying the LED based 61 in DLP tv from samsung. and doing what you guys recommended by buying a center first, then fronts, etc...

i've seen some good links which i'll check out in depth.

the remodeler is running my speaker wire through the floor for me, thank goodness, so all that's left is for me to start pricing speakers.
 
congrats. I hate closings. so much paperwork. a good attorney can make it less painful though. have fun with your speaker search and try to listen to as many as you can.
 
ok so the 50pz800u is 1900 bucks from amazon, and i'm close to biting on it (waiting til after the closing to see how broke i am)

i'm also thinking about buying the polk audio r50's and the csr for fronts and center to replace those in my crappy htib set. the rr50's are only 60 bucks from outpost but they're cherry, and i was hoping to furnish the room in black. maybe i'll just save up and go straight into the good stuff with the speakers
 
Usually a cherry finish costs extra, compared to plain black. You may be able to find the same speakers in black for a better price.

...if not, there's always the spraypaint mod :eek:
 
well i was thinking about that panny b/c it's 1100 off ;) plus it's a top notch tv at the price i was planning to settle on for a lower end model.

as for speakers, i'm thinking i'm going to look at getting the klipsch quintet SL, until i can save up for a nice 2000 dollar set of speakers in a few years

i'm looking at getting http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8387113&type=product&id=1179876185999
tv stand, so that i can swing it around a bit to watch it while i eat.

also! i closed on the house today! here are some pics of my living room area.

DSC00740.JPG

DSC00741.JPG

DSC00743.JPG


the room measures roughly 14x19, with i guess 9ish foot ceiling. i opted for a color which reflects a little bit of light in order to keep the room from looking too dark, closed off and small. i should say the room measures larger than 14x19, but i'll be using the above measured area as the entertainment area.

my couch is going to be coffee colored.
 
ok so i pulled the trigger on the tv and the tv stand. the panasonic 50pz800u is coming from amazon. it cost me 2100 shipped, which i think is a good deal. i bought that tv stand from best buy this evening as well. tonight i wanna put down some wax on the hardwood floors, and when it dries i'm gonna get that stand put together. i'll put up more pics as they come
 
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