President Trump Getting Options to Crack Down On Chinese IP Theft

DooKey

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Whether or not you like President Trump shouldn't matter when it comes to him stopping China from stealing IP or forcing its transfer. I think all of us here can agree something needs to be done about this and the sooner the better. According to the White House trade adviser, President Trump is going to get recommendations within the next few weeks on how to crack down on Chinese theft and forced transfer of IP. This is promising news and I hope he shuts this kind of stuff down and gets us on a more even keel when it comes to IP and fair use of the same. I know our technology companies are sick and tired of getting ripped off.

“This will be one of the steps - one of the many steps - that the president is courageously going to take in order to address unfair trade practices,” Navarro told CNBC Television, referring to the U.S. Trade Representative’s “Section 301” investigation into China’s intellectual property practices.
 
I would love to see some of the proposals. It's not like we can have a task force go run around China and close down shops and arrest people that are stealing IP?
 
On the surface it sounds great. I'll withhold further opinion (yes, it is me...I can do that,...maybe) until some working proposals are available to review.
 
If only there was some kind of treaty or agreement that took steps to make all kinds of nations around the pacific respect intellectual property rights and put together a system to make exporting knock-off goods much more difficult.
 
The thing that is itching in the back of my brain is this. We (the U.S.) cannot afford (quite literally) to rock China's boat too hard, but I'll wait until something more tangible is available as to how ths might go down.
 
Oh yes. Genious idea. Great PR move. Probably as good as blaming violent video games for mass shootings and proposing some sort of ratings board for games and other entertainment software.
Perhaps an entertainment software ratings board, can get shortened to esrb or something.
So probably now he will try to propose some sort of office where people would be able to patent things.
Or maybe he will try to just go to war against China. Who knows. That guy seems so zany :)

On a serious note - i think a lot of countries would get behind this, but it seems to be just more talks and nothing else to please the right people.
 
Steal our ideas, steal our tech, fuck China and those in western governments that empowered the theft.

Sink the fucking boat, maybe jackasses being too busy doing things for themselves for once will keep them too busy to fall into madness with this first world agenda oh woe is me bullshit.
 
As someone who ran a aftermarket performance shop for cars, I've seen business fold after having one of their products bought by a chinese company that made copies and under cut them into oblivion. Now, small shops have parts they will only put on shop cars to prevent this, which kinda sucks for the consumer. So this is something I strongly hope makes its way to that small corner of commerce (don't expect it to, but a guy can dream).
 
The thing that is itching in the back of my brain is this. We (the U.S.) cannot afford (quite literally) to rock China's boat too hard, but I'll wait until something more tangible is available as to how ths might go down.

Not true. Everything going on right now is prepping in the United States to no longer be dependent on Chinese Steel.

It isn't just about production but as a national security concern. By providing shoddy steel cheaply, they can weaken the infrastructure.

Thanks to the tariffs that went into place, plants are being fired backup and steel companies are announcing they're rehiring and recalling workers.

From an industrial standpoint if you take a step back, and look at it purely through the economic landscape and not a political one, you will see that all the moves being made are to change up the United States from a consumer retail economy to one of manufacturing and production. That will lead to higher wages, more jobs and more economic stability as the United States becomes a major player in the arena of aluminum, steel, and oil.

Part of doing that is to cut ties with the Chinese and a lot of the other faulty practices that result in the exfiltration of wealth from the United States to other countries. For the entire song and dance the United States is given about a global economy, most other countries operate under the old economic rule book of supply and demand and have for quite some time.

Factor into this that many politicians on both sides of the aisle are bought and paid for by multinational corporations who profit off of the exfiltration of wealth from the United States. Of course they are going to be pissed off and try to convince the American people that selling off all of our wealth is a good thing. That is a lie that many in the metropolitan areas have bought into because they are detached from Middle America and those hardest hit when manufacturing was taken away.

The net result is going to be a more prosperous United States from an economic standpoint. The u.s. is now using the same rule book as the rest of the world and the rest of the world doesn't like it. Tough shit for the rest of the world.

Remember all of that the next time you hear somebody talking about how going after China for intellectual theft or how tariffs will somehow ruin the United States and the economy.

Many of these so-called economist's are just bought and paid for. Or they learned economy under the current environment which frankly is faulty.

Going back to being a nation of manufacturers, producers, farmers, and workers will result in a stronger and more secure Nation. That's old school economics 101 for any country, not just the United States.

When you create a credit-based economy based on consumer goods and debt, that is essentially wage slavery and results in people who should be prosperous instead unable to live off of a wage that should be able to sustain not only them but an entire family.

I expect the transition from a credit-based economy to a production-based economy won't be without casualty. Many retailers will likely go out of business as the credit-based model of will no longer be sustainable. This however is normal and necessary in a functioning economy as in order to advance, businesses need to be able to fail in order to make way for newer businesses using newer models that will better thrive in the market.

So if the president is going to go after China in terms of intellectual property, I wholly endorse it. We have had too many people in charge who don't have a lick of common economic sense in them. Regardless of the production he puts on in front of the cameras, it shows that we have a Savvy business man in charge who knows all the dirty little tricks companies use and is plugging up the holes in order to keep America's wealth in America.

The only people who would have a problem with that, are either people on the take from those multinational corporations, or people so political that they wouldn't be able to find their asshole with a mirror and a flashlight in broad daylight if it offended their political sensibilities.
 
I am notgoing to quote your long read there Zion. Kudos for it though. Yes, I realize getting our manufacturing back up and running is a good thing. We need to get away from being a service economy, for sure.

My specific concern is China calling in the $1.2 trillion in debt the U.S. owes them. I realize that it would be very destabilizing for them to do so, but they do have that hanging over our heads.

Like I said, I will wait to see some real propsals before delving into any real discussion.
 
I am notgoing to quote your long read there Zion. Kudos for it though.

My specific concern is China calling in the $1.2 trillion in debt the U.S. owes them. I realize that it would be very destabilizing for them to do so, but they do have that hanging over our heads.

Like I said, I will wait to see some real propsals before delving into any real discussion.

Even if they were to call in that debt, that would hurt them badly because they depend on our exfiltration of wealth via our credit based society.

They couldn't call it in if they wanted to. They would destroy their own Nation to do so.

China already knows this. They aren't happy about the gravy train being shut off, but they are also going to play along because the end result will be that debt being paid back.

If you want to get into geopolitics, it is precisely that Leverage that allowed for the meeting between the US and North Korea to happen. Strategic economic pressure is being applied to China in ways they haven't experienced and they know they can't do anything about it.

So they are trying to Curry some favor while still attempting to get away with some of the same tricks for as long as they can, but they see the writing on the wall.

There's a reason China suspended presidential votes and is essentially now a dictatorship. They are preparing for the consolidation of power they feel they will need in order to restructure their country once the current model is obsolete.
 
Oh no, I am trying to avoid politics. On the surface, I think this is a good idea. I just want to see what a gander at the implemetation before I give it a hardy something good or bad.
 
I am notgoing to quote your long read there Zion. Kudos for it though. Yes, I realize getting our manufacturing back up and running is a good thing. We need to get away from being a service economy, for sure.

My specific concern is China calling in the $1.2 trillion in debt the U.S. owes them. I realize that it would be very destabilizing for them to do so, but they do have that hanging over our heads.

Like I said, I will wait to see some real propsals before delving into any real discussion.

That's only one half of the equation between the trade going on between our country and China. Right now its a mutually beneficial relationship only possible because our two countries are on opposite footing in how our economies, and in turn people operate. China runs a cash surplus economy, because they are the world's export center. We run a cash deficit, because Americans are spenders. This works out great for both of us, and China has a nice investment vessel for their surplus cash. They just buy our debt, because it is literally one of the only opportunities for China to invest their tremendous amount of surplus cash. The other markets simply aren't large enough to not destabilize as a result of Chinese investment. This means that if they try to fuck with our economy, or rock the boat, they are in a losing situation as well. It is likely why things the Trump administration is doing are to get us a better protection on our own exports.
 
Not true. Everything going on right now is prepping in the United States to no longer be dependent on Chinese Steel.

It isn't just about production but as a national security concern. By providing shoddy steel cheaply, they can weaken the infrastructure.

Thanks to the tariffs that went into place, plants are being fired backup and steel companies are announcing they're rehiring and recalling workers.

From an industrial standpoint if you take a step back, and look at it purely through the economic landscape and not a political one, you will see that all the moves being made are to change up the United States from a consumer retail economy to one of manufacturing and production. That will lead to higher wages, more jobs and more economic stability as the United States becomes a major player in the arena of aluminum, steel, and oil.

Part of doing that is to cut ties with the Chinese and a lot of the other faulty practices that result in the exfiltration of wealth from the United States to other countries. For the entire song and dance the United States is given about a global economy, most other countries operate under the old economic rule book of supply and demand and have for quite some time.

Factor into this that many politicians on both sides of the aisle are bought and paid for by multinational corporations who profit off of the exfiltration of wealth from the United States. Of course they are going to be pissed off and try to convince the American people that selling off all of our wealth is a good thing. That is a lie that many in the metropolitan areas have bought into because they are detached from Middle America and those hardest hit when manufacturing was taken away.

The net result is going to be a more prosperous United States from an economic standpoint. The u.s. is now using the same rule book as the rest of the world and the rest of the world doesn't like it. Tough shit for the rest of the world.

Remember all of that the next time you hear somebody talking about how going after China for intellectual theft or how tariffs will somehow ruin the United States and the economy.

Many of these so-called economist's are just bought and paid for. Or they learned economy under the current environment which frankly is faulty.

Going back to being a nation of manufacturers, producers, farmers, and workers will result in a stronger and more secure Nation. That's old school economics 101 for any country, not just the United States.

When you create a credit-based economy based on consumer goods and debt, that is essentially wage slavery and results in people who should be prosperous instead unable to live off of a wage that should be able to sustain not only them but an entire family.

I expect the transition from a credit-based economy to a production-based economy won't be without casualty. Many retailers will likely go out of business as the credit-based model of will no longer be sustainable. This however is normal and necessary in a functioning economy as in order to advance, businesses need to be able to fail in order to make way for newer businesses using newer models that will better thrive in the market.

So if the president is going to go after China in terms of intellectual property, I wholly endorse it. We have had too many people in charge who don't have a lick of common economic sense in them. Regardless of the production he puts on in front of the cameras, it shows that we have a Savvy business man in charge who knows all the dirty little tricks companies use and is plugging up the holes in order to keep America's wealth in America.

The only people who would have a problem with that, are either people on the take from those multinational corporations, or people so political that they wouldn't be able to find their asshole with a mirror and a flashlight in broad daylight if it offended their political sensibilities.

Trade wars are bad for everyone. It doesn't take a economist to know that. Also, when you have to resort to discounting entire professions as "bought and paid for," you might want to think twice. Or not...it's your call. ;)
 
Simple solution, stop sending your IP to china to manufacture when this is a well known issue...... All the US companies trying to cut costs by manufacturing their products in china deserve what they get.

And lets not forget what is going to happen with these new tarrifs / trade wars / going back to manufacturing in the US. Higher prices! Higher prices for everyone! yay!.....
 
"... that the president is courageously going to take in order to address unfair trade practices...."

wait... wut?
 
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Simple solution, stop sending your IP to china to manufacture when this is a well known issue...... All the US companies trying to cut costs by manufacturing their products in china deserve what they get.

And lets not forget what is going to happen with these new tarrifs / trade wars / going back to manufacturing in the US. Higher prices! Higher prices for everyone! yay!.....
Perhaps higher prices but hopefully the decline of the throw away economy.
 
They do that for market penetration and growth potential within the Chinese market. Most companies starting in china need to share their process/tech to even be allowed to sell their goods. I don't agree with it, but since everyone's greedy and chasing returns, ip theft is expected.
 
I think these are good things trump is doing. But soon as we're back to a democratic president. All these changes we'll be reversed and we'll be back to the same crap as before.
It was crazy how all we do is consume and not produce and let all the other countries do it for us. And tell us how great it is for americans.
 
Not true. Everything going on right now is prepping in the United States to no longer be dependent on Chinese Steel.

China provides less than 5% of the USA's steel. Canada is the largest international supplier of US steel other than the US itself, the US enjoys a trade surplus with Canada. Even in Steel.

The rest of your post is even funnier. It's like you download the regime's talking points and obey obey obey. Do you have a USB port behind your ear, or is this a voluntary thing?
 
I would love to see some of the proposals. It's not like we can have a task force go run around China and close down shops and arrest people that are stealing IP?

Tried that, there's a documentary on it. I think it was filmed in the 90's.

Essentially companies like Nike/Adidas/etc would hire investigators to locate the counterfeit ops. Turns out, they were sometimes right next door to the official factories. If my memory serves me, some investigators were threatened or attacked.


I think the issue is that China is not going to crack down on stolen IP within their own country. Copying is ingrained in their culture, go to a tradeshow with a few Chinese companies and they're very worried about people photographing their products.

So to combat it, you have to get it coming in. They'll hide counterfeit within other items or they'll make it easily converted. It's like a game of whack a mole as you get one store shutdown only to have it pop back up under a different company.
 
Everyone wonders what happened to the USA standard of living which hasn't moved or has been in reverse for years. I made more cash in 2000 than I do now. Isn't the information technology field great? Don't even get me started on that one and H1B. (which Trump backed off of like a puss) Look at the huge deficit and IP theft.. It's called "Transfer of Wealth and Knowledge". From USA -> (mostly) China. Plain and simple. We are making these thieves rich by turning a blind eye just so they will keep doing business with us. Idiocy. Bravo for someone for doing something but is it too little too late?
 
[
Not true. Everything going on right now is prepping in the United States to no longer be dependent on Chinese Steel.

It isn't just about production but as a national security concern. By providing shoddy steel cheaply, they can weaken the infrastructure.

Thanks to the tariffs that went into place, plants are being fired backup and steel companies are announcing they're rehiring and recalling workers.

From an industrial standpoint if you take a step back, and look at it purely through the economic landscape and not a political one, you will see that all the moves being made are to change up the United States from a consumer retail economy to one of manufacturing and production. That will lead to higher wages, more jobs and more economic stability as the United States becomes a major player in the arena of aluminum, steel, and oil.

Part of doing that is to cut ties with the Chinese and a lot of the other faulty practices that result in the exfiltration of wealth from the United States to other countries. For the entire song and dance the United States is given about a global economy, most other countries operate under the old economic rule book of supply and demand and have for quite some time.

Factor into this that many politicians on both sides of the aisle are bought and paid for by multinational corporations who profit off of the exfiltration of wealth from the United States. Of course they are going to be pissed off and try to convince the American people that selling off all of our wealth is a good thing. That is a lie that many in the metropolitan areas have bought into because they are detached from Middle America and those hardest hit when manufacturing was taken away.

The net result is going to be a more prosperous United States from an economic standpoint. The u.s. is now using the same rule book as the rest of the world and the rest of the world doesn't like it. Tough shit for the rest of the world.

Remember all of that the next time you hear somebody talking about how going after China for intellectual theft or how tariffs will somehow ruin the United States and the economy.

Many of these so-called economist's are just bought and paid for. Or they learned economy under the current environment which frankly is faulty.

Going back to being a nation of manufacturers, producers, farmers, and workers will result in a stronger and more secure Nation. That's old school economics 101 for any country, not just the United States.

When you create a credit-based economy based on consumer goods and debt, that is essentially wage slavery and results in people who should be prosperous instead unable to live off of a wage that should be able to sustain not only them but an entire family.

I expect the transition from a credit-based economy to a production-based economy won't be without casualty. Many retailers will likely go out of business as the credit-based model of will no longer be sustainable. This however is normal and necessary in a functioning economy as in order to advance, businesses need to be able to fail in order to make way for newer businesses using newer models that will better thrive in the market.

So if the president is going to go after China in terms of intellectual property, I wholly endorse it. We have had too many people in charge who don't have a lick of common economic sense in them. Regardless of the production he puts on in front of the cameras, it shows that we have a Savvy business man in charge who knows all the dirty little tricks companies use and is plugging up the holes in order to keep America's wealth in America.

The only people who would have a problem with that, are either people on the take from those multinational corporations, or people so political that they wouldn't be able to find their asshole with a mirror and a flashlight in broad daylight if it offended their political sensibilities.

I'm not going to try to rebut your entire great wall of text, but here are some highlights:

We live in a global economy. Placing tariffs on Chinese steel won't magically fix the problem since it's a globally traded commodity. Heck, we only get 4% of our steel from them anyways. Our biggest source is Canada, who is exempt. Even if you want to argue that cheap Chinese steel is a problem, which is a reasonable position, the US can't reset the global price on a commodity. This is why economists across the right/left spectrum hate this move. It's PR, not substance.

We can't return to the past that you seem so nostalgic for. Technology has made that impossible. We produce 2/3 of the steel we did at our peak with 20% of the workforce. Per worker productivity is much higher than in the past and you can't un-ring that bell. Likewise, coal isn't coming back. It's dirty, unsafe for the workers and, most importantly, not cost effective. Gas and oil extraction techniques along with improving renewable tech have made coal much less viable. Increased automation and improved machine learning are only going to accelerate these trends. We need to adapt to the future, not try to rewind.

For the record, I grew up in "Middle America."
 
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I'm not going to try to rebut your entire great wall of text, but here are some highlights:

We live in a global economy. Placing tariffs on Chinese steel won't magically fix the problem since it's a globally traded commodity. Heck, we only get 4% of our steel from them anyways. Our biggest source is Canada, who is exempt. Even if you want to argue that cheap Chinese steel is a problem, which is a reasonable position, the US can't reset the global price on a commodity. This is why economists across the right/left spectrum hate this move. It's PR, not substance.

We can't return to the past that you seem so nostalgic for. Technology has made that impossible. We produce 2/3 of the steel we did at our peak with 20% of the workforce. Per worker productivity is much higher than in the past and you can't un-ring that bell. Likewise, coal isn't coming back. It's dirty, unsafe for the workers and, most importantly, not cost effective. Gas and oil extraction techniques along with improving renewable tech have made coal much less viable. Increased automation and improved machine learning are only going to accelerate these trends. We need to adapt to the future, not try to rewind.

For the record, I grew up in "Middle America."

The carve outs have already been made for Canada and other allies so they don't get taxed with the tariff on steel and aluminum. The other problem is that while China only directly supplies 4% of our steel, many other countries purchase Chinese steel then resell it to us, so indirectly they supply more than 4%.

Another thing that is messed up with people complaining about us putting a tariff on the steel and aluminum, is that they are already putting tariffs on our goods that we export. Almost every country taxes our agriculture goods and any manufactured goods we sell abroad, but they scream bloody murder if we dare even talk about taxing what they send here. The EU is already walking back their protest to the tariffs once President Trump pointed this out in public and said that if Germany went through with taxing Harley Davidson bikes that we would return the favor by taxing Mercedes, Audi, BMW and VW cars. They quickly went from talking retaliation to talking about negotiating carve outs for themselves. Funny how that now we have someone who will stand up to other countries trying to take advantage of us they begin to want to make trade more equal. So far "Open Trade" has come with taxes against US goods and has never been truly open in the past.

As for companies like MS and Google who complained about having to give their IP to China for the right to do business there, I don't feel sorry for them. Playing by China's rules just to make a buck has allow China to flourish, if they had all said no, then China would have either changed their policy or been stuck in the past IP wise and maybe not as big a threat to the world economy as they are today.
 
Manufacturing is important in times of war. The reason we prevailed in WWII is because we could spit out machines of war in numbers that other nations could not keep up with. We killed them with our industrial capacity. Could we do the same now if required? Hell no, though it is perhaps a moot point in the nuclear age.
 
Simple solution, stop sending your IP to china to manufacture when this is a well known issue...... All the US companies trying to cut costs by manufacturing their products in china deserve what they get.

And lets not forget what is going to happen with these new tarrifs / trade wars / going back to manufacturing in the US. Higher prices! Higher prices for everyone! yay!.....
And higher paychecks.
 
Not true. Everything going on right now is prepping in the United States to no longer be dependent on Chinese Steel.
It isn't just about production but as a national security concern. By providing shoddy steel cheaply, they can weaken the infrastructure.
Thanks to the tariffs that went into place, plants are being fired backup and steel companies are announcing they're rehiring and recalling workers.
...
I think this is a bit native. Restarting our fabled manufacturing plants and flex our muscles again. Wait till you see the sticker shock of what everything will cost as we start burning through our natural resources once more.
 
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I would fight fire with fire. I can't say as consumers we don't benefit from this exploitative abuse of IPs. Even if you could fight China over this, some other country will just pick up where China left off. Either accept there's something really wrong with the way we handle patents and copyright law, or expect to waste money.
 
It's kinda hard to keep a lid on all of the high tech goodies when all of your factories are there and not here...
 
Chinese IP theft affect the whole world. This is one area where no one would complain that American can take the lead on.
 
I would fight fire with fire. I can't say as consumers we don't benefit from this exploitative abuse of IPs. Even if you could fight China over this, some other country will just pick up where China left off. Either accept there's something really wrong with the way we handle patents and copyright law, or expect to waste money.

and how would you encourage Small Enterprise innovation in America if any idea gets stolen and copied over by another foreign company with a 10-100x budget for marketing ?
 
Simple solution, stop sending your IP to china to manufacture when this is a well known issue...... All the US companies trying to cut costs by manufacturing their products in china deserve what they get.

And lets not forget what is going to happen with these new tarrifs / trade wars / going back to manufacturing in the US. Higher prices! Higher prices for everyone! yay!.....
It's all well and good but if you need a quick turn around from design to run that combined with low prices quite a few things are only possible in 深圳. Either way anything you wish to stay a trade secret you keep out of china.
 
It's kinda hard to keep a lid on all of the high tech goodies when all of your factories are there and not here...

Not just high tech stuff. Branded clothing, shoes, car parts, homewares, basically everything that requires mass production is made in China. Those fake Louis Vuitton bags from China are probably made in the same factory as the real ones. When I worked in the pharma industry there were always complaints that Chinese manufacturing plants would do an extra run per day, and the plant's CP bigwigs would take the profits from that batch being sold in SE asia.
 
Its about time somebody stopped the theft of IPs. I hate running out of v4 IPs and having to use v6 instead because all of my v4s go missing.
 
Simple solution, stop sending your IP to china to manufacture when this is a well known issue...... All the US companies trying to cut costs by manufacturing their products in china deserve what they get.

And lets not forget what is going to happen with these new tarrifs / trade wars / going back to manufacturing in the US. Higher prices! Higher prices for everyone! yay!.....

ummm, you do know they order from the US and copy US made products right? they have stolen several of my US MADE products (we manufacture in house 100%) and there is nothing i can do about it. patents are ridiculously expensive & by the time they get around to approving a patent... the part is obsolete.

fix the patent system would be a nice start.

i have my own export ban going on to china / asia.
 
Perhaps higher prices but hopefully the decline of the throw away economy.

And higher paychecks.


It's hilarious that you think this would improve either of those. You really think that if a corporation loses its super cheap manufacturing in china, it's going to somehow step up their game when they move back to the US? Wages aren't going to go up because the move from china to US is already an increase in wages they have to pay. They are going to pay as little as possible, like always. And they also aren't going to add to the manufacturing costs that were just increased by the move and make higher quality items ('not throw away').

Corporations will always cut costs (wages/quality) to increase profits. That's why they moved to manufacture in china in the first place. If that's taken away, the only thing that is going to change is the price we pay for the same shit. Quality won't improve, and wages won't increase past the bare minimum they are allowed to pay.
 
It's hilarious that you think this would improve either of those. You really think that if a corporation loses its super cheap manufacturing in china, it's going to somehow step up their game when they move back to the US? Wages aren't going to go up because the move from china to US is already an increase in wages they have to pay. They are going to pay as little as possible, like always. And they also aren't going to add to the manufacturing costs that were just increased by the move and make higher quality items ('not throw away').

Corporations will always cut costs (wages/quality) to increase profits. That's why they moved to manufacture in china in the first place. If that's taken away, the only thing that is going to change is the price we pay for the same shit. Quality won't improve, and wages won't increase past the bare minimum they are allowed to pay.
Wishful thinking on my part, just like on the presidents part if he thinks he can change anything with out massive shifts in how North American companies actually do business.
 
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