Preperation for College

[mrwiggles35]

Hey I'm a freshmen and I've decided to take the plunge and dedicate the rest of my time in High School to become as prepared for majoring in Computer Sciences as I can. I'm going to quite a prestigious high school and I have a ridiculously strong desire to go to MIT(few kids that graduate from my school go there every year) or UCB. What can i do to be prepared for that? I already plan on taking Calculus my senior year.

 

[jiminator]

How are your SATs? Are you taking a lot of AP/college level courses? I'd probably expect calc before senior year. If you are sincere about getting into MIT it is going to take a lot of work.

 

[dopee123]

Learn how to spell preparation first. Find a teacher you like whose involved in the field and latch onto them for mentoring and guidance.

 

[mrwiggles35]

LOL what a fail on my part typing with a headache =/ sorry xP I haven't done any SAT tests yet (just a freshie), but I am in all honors classes at the moment. I'm currently eligible for the gifted program at my school, and im not kidding about this. MIT is a serious dream for me right now which is definitely in my grasp. Thankfully im surrounded by teenagers who take their education very seriously. Thats actually a really good idea Dope thanks. Didn't think of that. I'm probably gonna do summer school few times also.

 

[Xeno8]

The personal site of STL might interest you. He was the valedictorian of his class and had some amazing test scores:

# SAT I: 1600/1600 (sophomore year), 1480 (freshman year; 730 math, 750 verbal)
# ACT: 35/36 (late junior year), 34 (early junior year), 31 (freshman year)
# SAT II Math IIc, Physics, Writing: 800/800
# SAT II Literature: 770/800
# AP Physics C: Mechanics: 5/5
# IB Diploma: 43/45

but still he was rejected by MIT (though Caltech and Stanford accepted him). He seems to believe that his extracurriculars were lacking, so you might want to focus on those (in addition to your GPA and the standardized tests, of course). In particular, you should study CS and work on programming projects in your spare time. On your application, it would be awfully nice to be able to point to a non-trivial OpenGL game or lossless data compressor that you put a significant amount of work into.

 

[mrwiggles35]

Awesome website Xeno thanks Thats pretty unbelievable O.O Just summarizes that I have alot more work ahead of me...

 

[Blazestorm]

Now my post is completely irrelevant if you don't care about writing games and just want to get into a general software development field.

Well I don't know much about those other programs, I didn't try very hard in HS. Although I did pretty well on standardized tests (31 on ACT, 33 math/science) but I barely graduated with a ~2.5 GPA.

But I ended up at www.digipen.edu doing mostly computer science and simulation related programming. It's an intense program with 154 credits in 4 years, and it's 90% CS, Math and Physics... I've taken 1 Art and 1 Sociology class so far the, 10 CS classes, 3 Game project, 3 Math (Linear Algebra, Calc and Calc II), and 1 Physics. Some may say that's a poor balance but whatever. I'd rather not spend 2 years going through general education classes I don't care about to make me "well rounded". I know C and C++ quite well... I mean we write entire game engines from scratch in a single semester. We actually have ~2 more weeks to finish our game engine for this semester. Only API's we get to use are stuff like DirectX for graphics and FMOD for sound. But physics, input, and actually having a graphics engine to use DirectX along with the core which manages everything we have to write from scratch. On top of taking 4-5 other CS, Math, Physics classes at the same time. If you're taking less than 17 credits per semester you're a wuss, Most take 20 credits so they don't have to take classes over the summer to finish in 4 years.

Some people recommend just going for a regular BS in CS, but I wanted to get into game development and game companies know Digipen quite well. Valve grabbed entire teams from Digipen to make Portal and Portal 2... (They're local to us)... Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. all grab people usually before they graduate. That's also assuming you're competent, but usually if you make it that far you've proved yourself.

Sort of rambling, but it's another option... I think a company is going to care more about actual results, and because we're put into game teams that work almost exactly like how a real game company would work, we have real world experience. We know the process of GDD's (Game Design Document), TDD (Technical Design Document), and things like using Subversion, writing installers, debug tools, and automated testing. All these things that normal CS students would know nothing about, that and most of them are stuck learning Java and other crap that game companies also don't care about. Any AAA studio is writing in C++... Not saying that a competent Java programmer can't learn C++, but that's going to cost the company a lot of money to spend all that time training them in a language they haven't used. Introduce them to the concept of pointers and managing your own memory... On top of all the game development related stuff.

Rambling a bit... it all depends on what you want to do in the end.. I do regret not putting more effort into HS but I would have ended up at the same place anyways I think.

 

[mrwiggles35]

Dope: i found a teacher at my school and found out my school offers AP Computer Sciences. May i say WIN!?
Blazestorm: I've been interesting coding and I'm going to start when i reformat my computer. I'm gonna try OpenGL and make a game out of that. Thanks thats another interesting option. I still have years to decide what I want to do in the end but this is a rather appealing option

 

[jiminator]

eh, the older you get the faster time flies, especially once you get out of school...

 

[Whatsisname]

Get really good grades, and find some spiffy little project you can do for some local, well known company.

I wouldn't really worry too much about knowing your shit, its more of a grades and networking/who you know sort of thing for getting to a school like MIT.

And if you are working on something in your spare time don't work on a game. Do some science. Make something that interfaces with something physical. Make cool graphs.

 

[mrwiggles35]

I see I see sis.
I was going to build the oil submerged PC but then i found out someone else already thought of that. I'll search around sis, Thanks for all the info guys

 

[eon]

I was accepted to MIT, applied only for the sake of seeing if I would be accepted
I just had like a 4.7 gpa, a ton of extra curricular activities, and several AP exam and Golden State exam accomplishments, absolutely no inside connections
also my SAT scores werent that good, was in the upper 1400s I think, I only took it once my sophomore year without any preparation

 

[mrwiggles35]

My friend's dad works at a pretty big technology company, so maybe I can pull some ties there

 

[Red Squirrel]

Big name universities may look good, but you can still get a half decent job with a lower end college/university and move up from there. You might not be making 100k straight out of school, but you also wont have 50k of debts, either.

I took a 3 year comp sci program at a community college and graduated in 2007. Started off at our ISP / Managed services company at help desk/level 2 and now I take care of 50ish servers and any crap their crazy IT manager throws at us, for a hospital. In these 3 years of working I've managed to make enough money to buy a house, and I have no debts other then the mortgage. Some of my friends that chose to go to bigger colleges are just getting into the real world now, some are still in school.

Of course some jobs look strictly at paper stuff (Grades, which university etc) but a lot also look at actual skill and experience.

 

[william_fontaine]

Big name universities may look good, but you can still get a half decent job with a lower end college/university and move up from there. You might not be making 100k straight out of school, but you also wont have 50k of debts, either.

I took a 3 year comp sci program at a community college and graduated in 2007. Started off at our ISP / Managed services company at help desk/level 2 and now I take care of 50ish servers and any crap their crazy IT manager throws at us, for a hospital. In these 3 years of working I've managed to make enough money to buy a house, and I have no debts other then the mortgage. Some of my friends that chose to go to bigger colleges are just getting into the real world now, some are still in school.

Of course some jobs look strictly at paper stuff (Grades, which university etc) but a lot also look at actual skill and experience.

+1. I got a bachelors and masters in CS from a good public university, and with a 35 ACT they gave a full scholarship. Got out of college with no debt, started at 60K and am up to 80K after a couple years.

 

[Lethal]

The personal site of STL might interest you. He was the valedictorian of his class and had some amazing test scores:

but still he was rejected by MIT (though Caltech and Stanford accepted him). He seems to believe that his extracurriculars were lacking, so you might want to focus on those (in addition to your GPA and the standardized tests, of course).

Oh ... my ... goodness!

STL used to be a member here. I always thought he was a perfect example of how you could have a very high IQ but still be a total social misfit. He had a rather high opinion of himself and was fond of labeling anything that didn't meet his personal standards as "fascist".

So, yeah. Work on some extracurriculars and social skills. IQ can only get you so far in life.

 

[mrwiggles35]

+1. I got a bachelors and masters in CS from a good public university, and with a 35 ACT they gave a full scholarship. Got out of college with no debt, started at 60K and am up to 80K after a couple years.

I've also took this into consideration. Would rather go to a decent college with a full scholarship than to MIT with none. But i mean if a person goes to MIT and is in the top 30% of their class, they can get a job anywhere at any salary.

 

[mikeblas]

I have a ridiculously strong desire to go to MIT

Why?

But i mean if a person goes to MIT and is in the top 30% of their class, they can get a job anywhere at any salary.

No. I think you might need a bit of a reality check. At the very least, you should identify your goal and figure out how to get there. Right now, the goal you're expressing is a conveyance, not a destination.

 

[mrwiggles35]

I guess you're right. I didnt mean the very last part of my statement,but they can probably get a job anywhere.

 

[mrwiggles35]

I want to go to a reputable college with a full scholarship (if not, adleast a big one) and major in Computer Sciences. I want to get a decent job and wake up everyday happy to go to my job. Does that sound better?

 

[william_fontaine]

I've also took this into consideration. Would rather go to a decent college with a full scholarship than to MIT with none. But i mean if a person goes to MIT and is in the top 30% of their class, they can get a job anywhere at any salary.

MIT will get you in the door at more places and at higher starting salaries, but certainly not any salary. And it will become less of a factor over time, at least for most places. Once you've been working for a few years, your experience and personal characteristics and goals will become the major factors that determine what opportunities are available for you.

 

[lightp2]

This post is built-on William_fontaine's post. It assumes the early basic technicality you already somewhat taken care off. My post is an opinion, not universal truth.

When you reach the later stage of your professional life, if you intend your Computer Science's education to be relevant,

There are currently 2 grand computing categories

1. More stable version - To give quick examples. COBOL/FORTRAN and all the meaning associated with them. Banking/Financial/Giant Firms/IBM/Big-iron environments, many more.

Pressures for you to be correct, structured, highly dependable, maybe other professionals can fill in the details here.

2. Fully dynamic version - like there's no tomorrow. All the current Internet-based tech enterprises, mobile, gadget, GPU technology, crowd-focus fashionable technologies, so many more. Will dislodge existing things with minimal regards where needed in short notice.

Pressures for you to be fast in delivery, and highly flexible in a lot of areas. Probably others can fill in details here as well.

In real-life, especially close to lower-mid-level it is probably both, but this is just a generic view.

Not to say you cannot change, but if you understand your natural tendency, if may help somewhat by building the necessary basis slightly advance.

 

[monkey_slap]

Honestly, I can't see why someone would want to spend so much on going to MIT to just join the workforce. The reason everyone knows of MIT is because of research, not making really great employees.

I know I'm not a research person, so I went to a state school and couldn't be happier. Cooping for a total of 1.5 years during my education, so right after I graduate/get my master I'll already have a beefy resume.

I think the goal should be simply going to a good school that is known for having a solid CS program, not just the one everyone knows about.

 

[mikeblas]

I want to go to a reputable college with a full scholarship (if not, adleast a big one) and major in Computer Sciences. I want to get a decent job and wake up everyday happy to go to my job. Does that sound better?

A little, but you're still not done. You need to identify what would make you happy to get up and go to your job. What would you do? Is it the work you're doing that makes you happy? The end product you participate in? The industry? Your co-workers? Salary? Location?

Lots of people identify the wrong goals. They want to learn karate. They don't know why. Only when they think about it -- they want to learn karate because they think it will help them meet girls -- are they on the way to enlightenment. If they think harder about it, they'll realize karate doesn't have a darn thing to do with meeting girls. It might help at a freak chance, sure. But there are other, more direct, more effective ways to meet girls.

Is your goal to meet girls, to learn karate? So far, you're just talking about karate. I bet there's a more direct and appropriate way to meet your real goal.

 

[Xeno8]

[Lethal]
> IQ can only get you so far in life.

That's funny; I always thought that the take-home lesson was that a high-enough IQ trumps just about every other shortcoming. I mean, it's not like STL's blind zealotry or social indelicacy held him back in the real world; Microsoft recruited him while he was still in college based on the high-quality technical content of his website. Now he's the Visual C++ standard library developer (working closely with Dinkumware), which seems pretty close to his dream job. (He is fanatically obsessed with C++. Probably the only position nearer to his ultimate ambition is that of the compiler back-end developer.)

I miss STL on these boards. Say what you want about his narrow focus, but he knew his domain very well. I learned a lot from reading his posts. Plus, any thread he posted in instantly became a fascination. He was infamous! You obviously still remember him, right?

 

[King Icewind]

Fresh meat...
Your better off doing well in high school, going to a good college for your undergraduate degree and doing well there, THEN apply to MIT. Oh and your going to do a whole bunch of extra curricalular activities, community service, etc. Good grades alone will NOT get you into MIT.

Oh and I'm willing to bet that some of people that get accepted have rich daddis who pay straight up.

 

[mikeblas]

Oh and I'm willing to bet that some of people that get accepted have rich daddis who pay straight up.

Ya think? This is one of the reasons that a degree alone doesn't get you anywhere; hiring managers know what's going on, and still interview you before making an offer, regardless of what degree you might have.

I mean, it's not like STL's blind zealotry or social indelicacy held him back in the real world;

Of course it did. He got one thing he wanted; there are many other things that he could have achieved, or would have had, if he had been more graceful or emotionally intelligent. Not to pick on the guy -- I thinks this is true for all of us, me included.

It's simply not true that IQ trumps every other shortcoming; it certainly helps, and it can be one of the most flexible gifts in that it can enable the owner to figure out what else is wrong and how to fix it. But until they're overtaken, a shortcoming is still a shortcoming.

 

[rflcptr]

OP:

I think it'd really help if you started off finding the best way(s) you learn. Worry about curriculum secondly, unless you're already in the middle of it. "Attendance to a prestigious school" isn't a skill, or useful anyway. An MIT teacher can't give you any more than another, when you're the one that has to do the learning and its required work. I think I wasted time outright having not learned how to learn; I was probably largely ignorant about myself at first, and having ADHD didn't help, either. Point is, I found out I'm basically a ground->up learner, and I can apply my knowledge of low-level details to make better decisions and learn different complex things more easily than I used to. On the other hand, I'm exposed to peers who prefer pulling out their shovels whenever they encounter those problems. I don't think there's a right or wrong way, so far anyway. For example, I actually found enjoyment writing assembly, and carried what I learned to really cement my understanding of pointers in the higher-level C/C++. Of course, there's those that throw in the towel late, and really don't want to do computer science.

Everyone's different, but knowing this about yourself is very important, if not the most important thing.

 

[mrwiggles35]

Yeah. Educational extracurriculars and Community service (which I will be doing for sure) are going to be a part of all of this. I love this website. So much information hahah. But anyway, I realized the desire isnt that I want to get into MIT, I just want to go to a good college on a scholarship and become successful in the business. I'm going to talk to my school's AP Computer Sciences teacher tomorrow. thanks for all the input!

 

[mrwiggles35]

I spoke with my school's AP computer science teacher today and he gave me a book to start Java. Good stuff xP

 

[Blazestorm]

To be honest, I think C should be everyone's first language. It's simple enough that you can learn all the features and everything about it within a few weeks. But powerful enough that entire 2D/3D games and operating systems have been written with it. The best reference for C and it's features is a ~270 page book. K&R... But realize this is really just a reference for people who already have been programming for a while and are moving to C, or people writing C and need something to check.

And a lot of the popular languages like Java and C++ were based off C, so transitioning to these other languages isn't going to be a huge change once you learn some new syntax and features. But C forces you to learn about managing memory and pointers, which you will do if you go to C++. But if you go to Java it'll be handled for you. Yet if you tried to go from Java to C++ I think you'd have a harder time moving, even though I've looked at Java code and it's pretty similar in terms of syntax.

I've been with guys who have taken 7-8 programming courses with me in C / C++ and they still have issues with pointers, memory etc. Last assignment in a Data structures class writing a memory manager caused a lot of frustrations for some people who didn't understand passing void pointers and casting to other types of pointers. Which makes me wonder how they're passing classes, but oh well.

Another thing you can do if you choose to learn C is to look at a bigger project and that's id software's Quake 2 or 3 source-code.

Just throwing out ideas... I'm glad my school went with ASM and C first before moving to anything else.

 

[Chibo]

Chill, you're going to change your mind about your career a lot over the next few years.

 

[Cat1yst]

Youve got a long way to go dude....

Heres a handful of things ive learned through the years....

1) im not my parents racehorse, im not an extention of their ego's, its my life, i do what i feel is right and will make me happy.
2) know your limits and maturity levels. I wasnt mature enough to handle AP/IB freshman year, if i could id go back in time and punch myself in the face and take "regular" classes. OFC this can be different for you.
3) Its all about the GPA... dont be afraid to level and drop. Do whatever it takes to get that 3.5gpa +. Dont buy into any of that weighting bullshit... yes things will look fishy if youre a perfect 4.0 and its all regular courses, but dont be afraid to wuss out of a class youre struggling in or are unwilling to do all the workload.
4) THIS IS HUGE. Ask your school about taking classes at the local CC. Mine paid for everything no matter how many units i picked up, theyre UC/Cal State transferrable, easier than AP courses, AND cheaper.
5) fuck everyone else, in less than 3 years it wont matter if you rolled with the most popular, if you got with the cutest girls. Youre in school to get somewhere in life. Make friends that will stick it through with you till the end.

"College isnt about learning what you like, its about what you dont like"

Dont set yourself onto one school, MIT's great to transfer to as a grad student. UCB will take you on as un undergrad with much less rigorous requirements, still is in the top 5 for engineering/sciences.

And im totally jealous you have AP comp sci. I would have had loved to had been given that option.

 

[mrwiggles35]

yeah man I totally get you with everything you said.You were reiterating what i was thinking.
I'm also expanding my horizon to more than MIT. It was a bit closed minded of me to just want to go to MIT. There are a bunch of other colleges that are also good options. fk women

 

[Chibo]

5) fuck everyone else, in less than 3 years it wont matter if you rolled with the most popular, if you got with the cutest girls. Youre in school to get somewhere in life. Make friends that will stick it through with you till the end.

At the same time, learn to not be a social retard. You will get further if you are personable and smart than if you're an insufferable genius; don't be that awkward guy with one or two friends, knowing people will do more for you than getting a 4.0.

Also, I imagine that you feel you're smart - don't fall to the urge to slide through classes without doing anything. Get study skills and discipline now or you will regret it in college.

 

[william_fontaine]

At the same time, learn to not be a social retard. You will get further if you are personable and smart than if you're an insufferable genius; don't be that awkward guy with one or two friends, knowing people will do more for you than getting a 4.0.

Also, I imagine that you feel you're smart - don't fall to the urge to slide through classes without doing anything. Get study skills and discipline now or you will regret it in college.

^ this

10 thises

 

[Cat1yst]

At the same time, learn to not be a social retard. You will get further if you are personable and smart than if you're an insufferable genius; don't be that awkward guy with one or two friends, knowing people will do more for you than getting a 4.0.

Also, I imagine that you feel you're smart - don't fall to the urge to slide through classes without doing anything. Get study skills and discipline now or you will regret it in college.

hey.....

I have more than one friend....

i think....





and yeah definately, study habits are huge, freshman year sets you up for life, after that its VERY hard to break out of whatever groove youve fell into.
If you ever hear anyone go " i got a 88% and i didnt study" who cares. fuck them. you studied and you did the most you could...

fk women

disregard females, acquire currency?

 

[mrwiggles35]

Lol I love you all xD But I agree about the social thing. I'm not anti-social and i have a lot of friends. I'll be fine in that department

 

[Yossarian22]

MIT sucks, RIT is where superior undergrads are shaped into efficient worker bees!

bzzzt! time for bed!

 

[Chibo]

and yeah definately, study habits are huge, freshman year sets you up for life, after that its VERY hard to break out of whatever groove youve fell into.
If you ever hear anyone go " i got a 88% and i didnt study" who cares. fuck them. you studied and you did the most you could...

Seriously, I was 'that guy' and I cannot tell you how much time, money, and non-gray hair I have wasted over the past 4 years - I should have been graduating this year. A lot of life experiences that have made me a better person, but I can't say I wouldn't trade it.


By the way, that post wasn't a jab at you, Cat1yst.