Prelude > analog > Z-5500 > headphones... any quality loss?

[careful]

I know my Z-5500 speakers would limit the Auzen Prelude in analog mode, so I was thinking about getting some nice headphones (Beyer DT 880 Pro) to get the optimal sound quality.
My question is if I plug the headphones in the Z-5500 headphones jack, will I lose any quality? Does the Z-5500 do any processing of the analog signal at all if the signal goes through the headphone jack?

And if it does, what are my options? Can I plug the headphones directly in the soundcard?

Thanks.

 

[ashmedai]

Prelude > analog > Z-5500 > headphones... any quality loss?

Everything starting with the conversion from digital to analog necessarily entails quality loss. Running it through your Z-5500's passthrough jack, much more than some other things you could do.

Whether you'll notice may depend on what your headphones are, of course, but sometimes this can give you a terrible noise floor for starters which can be horribly annoying to just about everyone. Probably you'll get something in the middle...distortion and noise, but maybe not enough to be prohibitive unless you're used to good audio. (Beyer DT880s are very nice. I believe they can be a little demanding about amplification...)

You can play jack swap and plug the Beyers into the sound card. Or hook the Z-5500s up over S/PDIF and switch between S/PDIF and analog in your sound card's control software. It won't sound all that great (well, compared to what the Beyers could do), but it'll work.

 

[careful]

Everything starting with the conversion from digital to analog necessarily entails quality loss. Running it through your Z-5500's passthrough jack, much more than some other things you could do.

Whether you'll notice may depend on what your headphones are, of course, but sometimes this can give you a terrible noise floor for starters which can be horribly annoying to just about everyone. Probably you'll get something in the middle...distortion and noise, but maybe not enough to be prohibitive unless you're used to good audio. (Beyer DT880s are very nice. I believe they can be a little demanding about amplification...)

I don't like the sound of that..

You can play jack swap and plug the Beyers into the sound card. Or hook the Z-5500s up over S/PDIF and switch between S/PDIF and analog in your sound card's control software. It won't sound all that great (well, compared to what the Beyers could do), but it'll work.

Hmmm.. so you mean the Beyers directly into the sound card would still be limited? Do you have any suggestions? Should I get an amp? If so, then what kind?

Please excuse my many questions. I've tried to read up on audio equipment as much as I could, but I am still relatively new to all of this. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I really appreciate.

Also, somewhat non-related. How would I go about connecting bookshelf speakers to my soundcard using the analog outs? An amp again? Would it accept the 3.5mm PC jacks? Otherwise, what type of connection would be appropriate?

 

[ashmedai]

I don't like the sound of that..

Yeah...that's the nice way of me saying it, when I mean to say "hell no" in huge red letters.

Hmmm.. so you mean the Beyers directly into the sound card would still be limited?

Sound cards are cruddy amps. According to the Head-Fi guide sticky, the Beyer DT880 Pros are pretty demanding amp-wise. Not sure if there's a Pro / non-Pro thing going. But few good headphones will be exactly happy running out of a sound card, even if the usual noise and distortion issues are minimal.

Do you have any suggestions? Should I get an amp? If so, then what kind?

That seriously depends on your budget. The Zero DAC/amp is very popular and about $150, but it takes S/PDIF. It can be used with speakers, but only in stereo AFAIK. A USB device like the EMU 0202 or 0404 could be fun. You can really spend up to some pretty steep totals here. There are also some fun portable devices, by iBasso for example, if you want to be able to use it on the go. The results from a wall-power device will generally be better due to the more potent electrical supply it has to work with.

Also, somewhat non-related. How would I go about connecting bookshelf speakers to my soundcard using the analog outs? An amp again? Would it accept the 3.5mm PC jacks? Otherwise, what type of connection would be appropriate?

Speakers can be "powered" meaning they have an amp inside the speaker body, but most "bookshelf" speakers are not and will need separate amplification (from a dedicated amplifier, or a receiver, or whatever) because there is no way in this green earth that a sound card is going to have enough oomph to drive speakers that large without help. Headphone amps and speaker amps are different devices, because the thing they need to drive is different. However if you get a receiver, they generally have a front side headphone bypass jack - and for once, the bypass jack is perfectly fine to use.

A receiver may be the easiest way to go if you're looking at 880s plus bookshelf speakers. The Panasonic XR57 is nice and can be had for $250, possibly less (used is great for this stuff if you can find it). Receivers are also nice in that they help you manage multiple sources, for example if you also want to hook up an Xbox or a cable box.

To wire up a receiver, you usually want a spool of speaker wire (just plain 18-gauge speaker wire, no terminators, and you cut it to length) for the bookshelf speakers. Most of the nice headphones have nice thick RCA jacks instead of the 3.5mm RCA-mini that is common to portable devices (iPods, etc) and computer sound cards. Many will use a sort of hybrid connector that works for both, with the thicker jack unscrewing from over the smaller one. Also, adapters between the two sizes are cheap and easy to find...grocery and drug stores usually have the suckers for a buck or something like that. Well, mini to RCA is much easier to find in my experience. The signal is equivalent, so it's just a "dumb" adapter that changes the plug type.

 

[careful]

It looks like my options are (from least to most expensive):

1) Find some good HP's that will run off the sound card's "cruddy amp" (any suggestions by the way? quick Google search gave me Sen 555, Proline 750, ...? - would be looking for something around that price range)

2) Pair the 880's with a "smaller" amp / portable amp.

3) Get a proper receiver. Although, I think I'm still not clear on how I would connect the sound card's analog to the receiver. Since most receivers have the standard red/white connector, I'm assuming I would need a 3.5mm RCA mini to red/white adapter? Would you lose much quality doing that (or is it similar to the hybrid RCA connector where the signal is kept the same)? And last question.. Mostly just to make sure I understand correctly. If I manage to connect the sound card to the receiver via analog, the receiver will not "process" the signal further other than to amplify the sound, so I will be getting the "pure stream" from the sound card, correct?

Thanks again for the informative answers. You've been incredibly helpful.

I think I'm leaning towards #1 for now.. I'm planning to have a full HTPC setup in the future, so I might go for a better receiver at that time (#3 getting a temporary receiver would be a bit of a waste right now). I'm not sure how some of the popular receivers like the Onkyo 600's, Denons, Yamahas, etc. compare to the Prelude in terms of sound output, but if they are better or even similar, then I might just pass a digital to the receiver and have it do the DAC. Would be nice to manage multiple sources as you say (I have a Blu-ray player that would benefit from the hi-res audio).

 

[ashmedai]

Audio Technicas are more forgiving than most, particularly the 900s (500, 700, 900 from low to high end version; A = closed, AD = open --> for example, A900 = the top of that product line, closed version). Cups are a bit on the extremely huge side, but they're pretty comfy. A900s should be absolutely oblivious to the power of the amp driving it, although of course quality can still affect distortion and so forth. They also sound really nice for headphones in that price range.

If you give the receiver analog input, it will only act as an amplifier (plus any other features it can do like equalization etc). The digital-to-analog conversion is performed once and only once. If you feed a receiver analog from your sound card, the sound card's DAC will do the job. If you feed a receiver digital, the receiver will act as the DAC. All things being equal, it is best to give the receiver digital input because digital signals are immune to analog distortion and somewhat resistant to interference (optical is almost completely immune, coax can be screwed with if you run it by a strong enough unshielded EM source).

If you get a receiver...you're out maybe an extra $2 if you get both analog and digital cables for it, and it will allow you to directly compare how the sound card's DAC and the receiver's DAC sound to you, and choose your favorite. If they're equal, use the digital interconnect...again, immune to analog distortion (which can affect frequencies unevenly and degrade your music).

#1 is obviously the easiest, but a good receiver is nice to have and not something you will replace soon if chosen carefully. The XR57 is very nice for the price range, more so if you can find a better deal than the shelf price at Amazon / J&R / et cetera. But note that with the bookshelf speakers, a receiver will also solve that problem, whereas just getting more tolerant headphones won't do anything for it.