Prefab kits:eek:

[Deleted member 12106]

Well, I was looking at water cooling kits, and, I must say, wow, have people lost touch with reality? I mean, the only parts I would need to order online for a water cooling kit would be a block. Everything else can be crafted and assembled with the most simple of hand tools and skills, and, the parts can be purchased for far less from the hardware store, menards, home depot, whatever you got.

My god

Last time I did, or, almost did water cooling, I think I spent a total of 100$, then, I decided I did not want to mess with the water. Now, I see these kits you can buy for 200$ that are enclosed, and then I see these other kits, and they look so cheap and cheesy.

I am thinking of doing water cooling, and showing how it was done b4 the prefab stuff was here.

Am I the only one that still hacks up old slot 1 heatsinks, and uses heatsink compound and attacthes them at the corners with super glue? Am I the only one that can make a fan bus? I see all these prefab things fglying off of the shelves and into everyone's computers. When I go to a lanparty, it is like watching pimp my ride, where they take the shittiest cars(computer) and make it look really nice.

 

[Erasmus354]

Why are you against prefab stuff? In the fan bus example, they are cheap and look a lot prettier than something you will hack together in a day. If you worked harder on it you could make it look as nice as something prefab, but time is money, and premade fanbus are not that expensive.

As for watercooling, there are a number of parts that perform better than what you get off the shelf. The DC pumps that most places are selling are small and run off of a power supply, much easier to use than an aquarium pump, and usually much better performing as well. Tubing, well tubing ofc you can buy somewhere. Prefab kits like the Exos are much simpler and in most cases better looking than hacking together something on your own. Some people care if their computer looks like a tornado ran through their case, and others dont. As I said before, time is money, and it is much preferable to most people to buy a premodded heatercore online in a kit rather than going to the autoparts store, and modding it yourself.

I am sure you could hack together a watercooling system held together with hot glue, spend a couple hours or days on modding all the stuff you need, and then someone else will show you what they got that performs as well as or better than yours, for only 100$ more.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

Why are you against prefab stuff? In the fan bus example, they are cheap and look a lot prettier than something you will hack together in a day. If you worked harder on it you could make it look as nice as something prefab, but time is money, and premade fanbus are not that expensive.

As for watercooling, there are a number of parts that perform better than what you get off the shelf. The DC pumps that most places are selling are small and run off of a power supply, much easier to use than an aquarium pump, and usually much better performing as well. Tubing, well tubing ofc you can buy somewhere. Prefab kits like the Exos are much simpler and in most cases better looking than hacking together something on your own. Some people care if their computer looks like a tornado ran through their case, and others dont. As I said before, time is money, and it is much preferable to most people to buy a premodded heatercore online in a kit rather than going to the autoparts store, and modding it yourself.

I am sure you could hack together a watercooling system held together with hot glue, spend a couple hours or days on modding all the stuff you need, and then someone else will show you what they got that performs as well as or better than yours, for only 100$ more.

Visuals, we call that rice, it is non functional. As for hacking together a better water cooling system, I am sure that I could get a better bang for my buck if I make it myself. I don't need to pay 20$ for a fan nor do I need to pay 75$ for a rad, and I sure in the hell don't need a 20$ resivour.

There is something that comes with making things yourself, not only is it more fun and rewarding, you get braging rights. The guys that come to the lan parties with all the prefab suff, IE, pre-modded cases, case lighting they bought and just plugged in, that sorta stuff. I am the type of person that will go salvage it off of something else. It is amazing at how many people pull out the plastic and say boom, now I have water cooling.

People generally laugh at me when I go to a lan with my biege box w/o case lights, and then they see the switches, and then they are like what are those for? You made them yourself? Did you put the sleeving on the wires your self? Wow...that is awesome you did that yourself. That is the best feeling in the world. Just like if you go and buy a car, instead of buying someone elses modded car, you mod it yourself, and it gives you more self respect and a feeling that you do not need to buy it done for you.

 

[Suicidal Insanity]

I just like the idea of buying everything(ok used in my case), hooking it up, maybe losing 2 or 3 hours of time, and then being done and not having to touch it again (and not having to hear the computer anymore either)

 

[Deleted member 12106]

I just like the idea of buying everything(ok used in my case), hooking it up, maybe losing 2 or 3 hours of time, and then being done and not having to touch it again (and not having to hear the computer anymore either)

Yeah, and it would not take more then a few hours to shop and aquire items and put them together. Heh, if you want to waste money, pay me and I will do it for you. I just looked at a bunch of kits, I did not see much of anything with brass fittings or barbs. This is a concern as Iwould be worried about breakage.

 

[Suicidal Insanity]

I have no barbs, all internal stuff is pneumatic based, the external radiator is attached using 2 sink/faucet pipes I got at the hardware store which server as an adaptor from 6 mm inner diameter to 10 mm


btw, what is your estimate for a silent fully passive unit (CPU, GPU)

 

[Deleted member 12106]

I have no barbs, all internal stuff is pneumatic based, the external radiator is attached using 2 sink/faucet pipes I got at the hardware store which server as an adaptor from 6 mm inner diameter to 10 mm


btw, what is your estimate for a silent fully passive unit (CPU, GPU)

I only need to cool my cpu, I do not need to cool my gpu, I have a HUGE passive heatsink on it that will be perfect. Tubing I can get free from work, along with the brass barbs and other misc connectors. So, out of pocket, it will cost me the water block, pump, resivor, and a smallish rad(heatercore from car).

Oh, and them pneumatic couplings, they leak. All fo them do, give em' a chance, especially if you put any type of pressure on the line itself...

Piece o cake.

 

[cgrant26]

I have to agree with Scotty on this. Watercooling was much cooler when the only way you could get it was to build it yourself. It is definately more satisfying having something you built, even if it was merely selecting componants and making them work together. Of course doing it for $100 or more less than the guy who baught a prefab kit is a nice feeling too.
The thing that most bothers me about people who criticize home built setups is the fact that without DIY watercooling, there would never have been PC watercooling.. The DIY guys were the pioneers that brought water to desktop PCs, it's the manufacturers that followed suite.

With all that in mind, heres a few DIY images to leave you all with.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

I have to agree with Scotty on this. Watercooling was much cooler when the only way you could get it was to build it yourself. It is definately more satisfying having something you built, even if it was merely selecting componants and making them work together. Of course doing it for $100 or more less than the guy who baught a prefab kit is a nice feeling too.
The thing that most bothers me about people who criticize home built setups is the fact that without DIY watercooling, there would never have been PC watercooling.. The DIY guys were the pioneers that brought water to desktop PCs, it's the manufacturers that followed suite.

With all that in mind, heres a few DIY images to leave you all with.

You sir, are the guy that gets my respect, congrads, it is something that people don't get too often

 

[typhoon43]

Flame me if ya feel like it Scotty, but as much as I love DIY, I also like "aesthetically pleasing" as well. No doubt that setup above is functional and cheap to build, but I will always pay for quality and looks. His setup is like a gentleman offering me a Ferrari or a Ford Festiva that is just as fast performance wise as the Ferrari. Guess which one I'd take?

That's a killer setup, but not my style. That's teh great thing about being human.. "to each their own"

 

[Deleted member 12106]

Flame me if ya feel like it Scotty, but as much as I love DIY, I also like "aesthetically pleasing" as well. No doubt that setup above is functional and cheap to build, but I will always pay for quality and looks. His setup is like a gentleman offering me a Ferrari or a Ford Festiva that is just as fast performance wise as the Ferrari. Guess which one I'd take?

That's a killer setup, but not my style. That's teh great thing about being human.. "to each their own"

It would not be hard to make one that looks good, the only that that looks ghetto is the resivour. I plan to sleave my hoses with neoprene to future proof myself. With DIY I feel there is a greater level of quality also.

 

[typhoon43]

I can agree on DIY quality. My roommate bought a total Koolance/ Lian-Li kit and it look sall right, but since there's like ZERO hands on building, I wasn't really impressed. I'm sure a nice WC rig could be done with off the shelf parts, and could look extremely well, but what seems to happen is people get so caught up in the "HAHAH MINE PERFORMS JUST AS GOOD AND I ONLY PAID 20 DOLLARS HAR! HAR!11!11!", that they forget to make them LOOK as good as they function.

 

[MikeP]

The more homemade and custom the better I say. Id like to Mill my own blocks but my gear aint up to it.

One thing that you do hafta spend for is decent hosing. Ive tried the cheap Home depot stuff and it wont bend worth a damn, or itll kink. I tried boiling it even and it just is frustrating as all hell.

The funnest stuff has been the stuff I made from scratch myself.

 

[MikeP]

The more homemade and custom the better I say. Id like to Mill my own blocks but my gear aint up to it.

One thing that you do hafta spend for is decent hosing. Ive tried the cheap Home depot stuff and it wont bend worth a damn, or itll kink. I tried boiling it even and it just is frustrating as all hell.

The funnest stuff has been the stuff I made from scratch myself.

IF you want to spend big and get a massive cavernous box with lots of lights and all premade and such, good for you. If you go totally ghetto thats great too. Its the stuff inbetween that bugs the fuck out of me.....just kidding.

The most important thing, no matter which way you go, is that you send us some pictures when its done for christs sake.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

The more I been thinking about it, I might have a block milled to bring my cost out of pocket even down less, it is nice that I have a machine shop at work, and all I really need is a block of copper, the only thing I am trying to figure out is attatching the top to the bottom, but, for 40$ I could just buy a block. I got all of the tubing already. I need to go rape the maintince box and I will have my barbs and mayve my seivoir and pump tomarrow from work.

 

[Little Grabbi]

Attatching is easy. Let them mill an o-ring groove into the bottom part, insert o-ring, screw on the top, screw in barbs, leak test, done

 

[Deleted member 12106]

Attatching is easy. Let them mill an o-ring groove into the bottom part, insert o-ring, screw on the top, screw in barbs, leak test, done

Easier said then done...

I need to do a mock-up. Finding a large enough hunk of copper is also going to be a downer. We have like TONS of steel and and alum, but, not much for copper.

I also remembered that there is an old water pump and resivoir from a spot welder cooler at work, that, has been sitting in the same spot for about 3 yrs not being used, that I may see about taking, it is missing the radiator, so, then I would just have to add in a heater core, it has an 8" fan on it, and is loud as hell, which would be bad, but, it cools down a spot welder very fast...

I also am going to see if the maintince department has any left overs that are no longer needed, we use to do plastic injection molding at our facility, so, who knows...

 

[eastvillager]

Well, it all depends on why you're watercooling, doesn't it?

Some of us are in it for the journey, some of us are in it for the destination.

Personally speaking, it is a waste of my time to design/build my own watercooling components. If I can buy an effective piece of gear for a reasonable price, that is what I'm going to do, because I bill out quite a bit more per hour than I'd save building the parts myself.

Time is a non-renewable resource, spend it wisely.

 

[TehQuick]

It's called specialization: I'd spent my time more productively doing something I am best at and earn more money than I save by completely doing everything myself. 'Nuf said.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

Well, it all depends on why you're watercooling, doesn't it?

Some of us are in it for the journey, some of us are in it for the destination.

Personally speaking, it is a waste of my time to design/build my own watercooling components. If I can buy an effective piece of gear for a reasonable price, that is what I'm going to do, because I bill out quite a bit more per hour than I'd save building the parts myself.

Time is a non-renewable resource, spend it wisely.

That is fine, if you think your time is worth that much, you must also get same day delivery?

 

[TehQuick]

heh, design & build a waterblock that performs like G4 or whitewater within ONE day - that's be a proof enough that you are good enough to say: "That is fine, if you think your time is worth that much, you must also get same day delivery?".
Bottomline: If u think u can build better watercooling parts than anybody else, go into business and prove it, otherwise pay due respect to the hard work those guys are doing. Your attitude towards them is uncalled for and completely ignores the amount of R&D some guys invest into this stuff - take Cathar for example, he has a full time job AND he runs a company that produces top-notch waterblocks. What do you have to show for yourself? a couple of home-made systems?

 

[Clint]

here's my homemade water block(minus the final sealing).
it worked well. kept my oc'd temps to 35ish on a quiet low rpm 120mm fan.
as u can see the input sealed directly on top of the fins which restricted the flow to give it some jet impingement characteristics.. what i really needed to do to this block to make it shine is mill the base down a little more as the copper is still pretty thick.

it did what i needed it to do so i used it for a couple months, then one night i was bored at work..and ordered a Dtek whitewater to replace it.

went from this

to this

now i'm back on air while i work on wc generation 3.
copper tubing, 77boneville core, 2 120mm fans, revised shroud.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

heh, design & build a waterblock that performs like G4 or whitewater within ONE day - that's be a proof enough that you are good enough to say: "That is fine, if you think your time is worth that much, you must also get same day delivery?".
Bottomline: If u think u can build better watercooling parts than anybody else, go into business and prove it, otherwise pay due respect to the hard work those guys are doing. Your attitude towards them is uncalled for and completely ignores the amount of R&D some guys invest into this stuff - take Cathar for example, he has a full time job AND he runs a company that produces top-notch waterblocks. What do you have to show for yourself? a couple of home-made systems?

I already have the blue prints drawn up, all I need to do now is find the copper. I have not had a chance to do it yet. Pay respect to who? All of the prefab chincy plastic kits that are no better then air? That, sir, does nto deserve respect. What is next? Give respect to the honduh fag who bought some mods and bolted them on? I think not.

Why did you come in this thread to begin with? You obviously did not come to give it a push in any direction other then down. I don't need your shit. Go on and buy your prefab shit. The only thing I would ever consider to buy prefab is the water block, and I would buy it from dangerden. Everything else I can come up with for a lot less.

 

[zer0signal667]

I can see this debate may get rather heated... I'm just stopping in to say hi, and behave yourselves

 

[CRXican]

ghetto rigged :mamoru:

If it looks good, that's great

If it looks good and works well even better

If it works well and looks like total ass (tuperware and heatercores siting on my carpet) why even bother?

 

[Masejoer]

Pumps I can't make, waterblocks I don't have the tools to make (hopefully I will in the future), radiator - nothing beats a heatercore or car radiator Reservoir I plan on diy once I can buy some useful tools. Watercooling will never be completely diy, but I like to make what I can. I know how you feel about the entire thing though...but what can you do

What IS annoying is that its hard to find decent normal beige cases anymore (or other colors that are still windowless/blowhole-less/etc). I like a nice DURABLE finish on a case, but the rest is just stupid and ugly imo. Current case came with an ugly window so I took a saw to it to make it a little less ugly. I leave the solid panel on the side I can see

 

[SledgeMakeGood]

I can't mill a block, but I think the blocks that are mass-produced now perform well enough and are cheap enough that they're just as worthwhile as milling your own. A lot of them do look very precisely machined, too, which I don't see on homemade blocks.

I've seen guys try to make their own radiators out of 1/2" copper pipe and fittings, they don't perform as well and they don't look as cool and they take up a lot more space. That said, I'll never buy a watercooling rad from a site when the automotive industry makes better, cheaper, and more uber stuff for an hour of hardware store visiting and elbow grease. That's fun, damnit.

I want a system that looks nice, I want it to be clean and interesting to watch at the same time. My setup has been half-finished for a long time (aren't all DIY's like that though?), but when I did a little more work on it and added fittings to adapt all the connections so it would finally be a closed system (no more bucket with two hoses coming out!), it made me feel really good, because it looks a whole level better.

Now, I believe in overdoing everything (and if you don't, get away from me, you poseur), so my setup won't fit in any case (ok, maybe a rackmount). I worked hard to make a radiator frame that wouldn't look horrible in my office, but that's as good as it gets for a rad like mine so I'm happy with it. It does look DIY, without a doubt, but I'm not going to sacrifice performance for looks.

I think most DIY guys here want their setups to look clean, but you have to test and evolve your idea before you can start worrying about fitting it in your case, and that takes time. Sometimes you realize that the prject was larger than you figured and it stalls, but I'll bet that every ghetto-looking setup started out as a really clean idea that was meant to be in a server case, or a seperate case, or a custom-made box, or a rackmount (if you're *really* mad). And then, some people settle on different levels of polish, and that's fine too. My system is one extreme, and my roommate's is the other (he was inspired to watercool by my madness, so he's testing the waters with a $100 kit), and we appreciate each other's reasons, though we couldn't see trading places at all.

I don't mean to try to bridge the differences of opinion in this thread, I'm clearly on one side, but I figured it was worth mentioning that DIY-ers aren't all filthy. Personally, I think that the kits are all crap when you can get the same performance out of air nowadays for a lot cheaper, and no, the noise difference isn't all that large because you're using the same fan in a different spot, the same amount of heat gets absorbed by the same amount of air no matter how you slice it. 1/4" tubing and 50 gph pumps are sure signs that the kit you're looking at goes against everything watercoolers have learned since we started this crazy hobby. If you're going into watercooling *purely* for the visual value, you're right at the level where wannabe boyracers and pimps exist in my opinion. Not that I don't have plenty of wannabe boyracers and pimps as good friends, hey, that's some fun stuff, but I'm from the "outside reflects inside" school of modding. I guess it's all about acceptance.

 

[Clint]

I think most DIY guys here want their setups to look clean, but you have to test and evolve your idea before you can start worrying about fitting it in your case, and that takes time.

^^^nail->head
i'm on iteration #3. i know ive spent more than a prefab.. ive got tons of spare parts now.. and 1 million ideas to try before i cut up my li li and "settle" on one specifi design.

the DIY crowd tends to be older and already has tools at their disposal. if you dont already have the tools or access to them..it _can_ get expensive..quick.
and time can be the biggest cost.

i know i've probably spent more in gas than some people have spent on their whole
kits. trips to my shop, to the hardware store, auto parts store..x100.

it all dependings on how far you are taking the DIY approach.

i can tell you that buying bare copper stock costs about $3 per block.
but a small mill is about 500$

some people consider DIY as buying all commercial parts separately and setting it up uniquely in your own machine. it's all personal preference as to what you want to do.

also if you've done your research and a prefab kit is within your parameters($cost, performance and time) then there's definitly no harm done. you cant fault someone for that. a prefab kit is a good stepping stone. maybe in a few months the person decides, "ok..now i'm comfortable with watercooling.. i'll get a bigger pump..or upgrade to 1/2ID tubing. etc". hey..they are watercooling and thats a big jump for a lot of people. and if the first experience is a pleasant one.. well, then they will most likely dig deeper next time around.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

Only parts I plan to buy is maybe a water block, that is still in the air, if I do, I will use dangerden. Pump? I will get a smaller aquarium water pump, can be had for about 8-??$, depending on flow. Radiator, I plan to visit the local parts store and look at the heater cores, but, that 77 bonnie core looks like it would be perfect. Brass barbs are about a buch a pop, I will need 4, and 2 will be soldered or brazzed to the core, and then the other 2 will have holes in the res for them, both tapped and sealed. I have 3" pcv piping, so, I will need 1 end cap, and 1 cap with a screw in thingy, I have glue and cleaner, so, the rez is going to cost 8$ out of pocket.

I plan to get 2 matching cases, 1 case will house my main box with dvd and cd burner, and my raptor, other side will have a power supply for fans, lights, and, here is the kicker, I will have a celly 400 unit from an old hp box in there, it is TINY and I will have a controller card and I am thinking a gigabit nic card. The controller card will have a channel for each of my hard drives, the nic will run to a smallish switch or router inside of the case. I am thinking more of a dual purpose here, I have a gerneric 400w psu for the celly 400 and the drives n junk. Finding 2 beefy cases cheap enough is the problem. I am considering buying up a socket 754 water block from danger den. I am then thining a poump for like 20$ , I need to do a mock up and see what I got for room. I plan to have 2 80mm fans in the main system side, these will be like 30cfm or less fans, very quiet, and 1 in the other side, also, very quiet. I plan to have it very quiet, the pump will me mounted on a pad of rubber.

Then, I belive I will be happy with uber box

If anyone knows of 2 decent quality(antec like) cases cheap, and that are the same size, let me know, or, if your in the central MN area, I would take some OEM cases if they can fit a full size atx, I am not worried about mobo mounting, I can get holes drilled n tapped at work, might as well make use of the machine shop.

 

[Erasmus354]

Pump? I will get a smaller aquarium water pump, can be had for about 8-??$, depending on flow.

small aquarium pumps are crap, plain and simple. They are not designed to push water through restrictive systems, they are designed to circulate water in an aquarium. Small aquarium pumps usually have poor flow, not horrible, but not the best either, but their biggest weak point is they have horrible head. You are much better suited getting either a good aquarium pump (a good eheim or something) or getting one of the 12v pumps that are better suited for watercooling.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

small aquarium pumps are crap, plain and simple. They are not designed to push water through restrictive systems, they are designed to circulate water in an aquarium. Small aquarium pumps usually have poor flow, not horrible, but not the best either, but their biggest weak point is they have horrible head. You are much better suited getting either a good aquarium pump (a good eheim or something) or getting one of the 12v pumps that are better suited for watercooling.

I do not need much head in this system, the max lift will be like 10" if that.

Ehiems are huge, hince, the suggestion on the aquarium pump, I could get 2 of them, but, we will see when the time comes. I need to do mock up first, and then find 2 sutible cases. I could care less as how the cases look, just as long as there are no windows, or, stupid wale blow holes on top.

 

[iddqd]

Performance.

 

[TehQuick]

I already have the blue prints drawn up, all I need to do now is find the copper. I have not had a chance to do it yet. Pay respect to who? All of the prefab chincy plastic kits that are no better then air? That, sir, does nto deserve respect. What is next? Give respect to the honduh fag who bought some mods and bolted them on? I think not.

Why did you come in this thread to begin with? You obviously did not come to give it a push in any direction other then down. I don't need your shit. Go on and buy your prefab shit. The only thing I would ever consider to buy prefab is the water block, and I would buy it from dangerden. Everything else I can come up with for a lot less.

If you really want everything DYI, why don't you build a computer from ground up then? design CPU, GPU and solder them on boards... THere are limits to how much time ppl are willing to invest to DIY and they often prefer to have someone else do it more efficiently and then buy it, because they can afford it If you can't, well, I guess that's you problem ain't it. I didn't come to this thread to put it down, I came here because you attitude is uncalled for, as if you are better than anyone else. If you can do all this stuff, all the more power to you, but dont put down what other people are doing for the community.

 

[zer0signal667]

I do not need much head in this system, the max lift will be like 10" if that.

Ehiems are huge, hince, the suggestion on the aquarium pump, I could get 2 of them, but, we will see when the time comes. I need to do mock up first, and then find 2 sutible cases. I could care less as how the cases look, just as long as there are no windows, or, stupid wale blow holes on top.

In a loop, vertical lift is not an issue. Restrictions due to blocks and tubing do convert to a head loss though, so you can't disregard head when finding a pump.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

If you really want everything DYI, why don't you build a computer from ground up then? design CPU, GPU and solder them on boards... THere are limits to how much time ppl are willing to invest to DIY and they often prefer to have someone else do it more efficiently and then buy it, because they can afford it If you can't, well, I guess that's you problem ain't it. I didn't come to this thread to put it down, I came here because you attitude is uncalled for, as if you are better than anyone else. If you can do all this stuff, all the more power to you, but dont put down what other people are doing for the community.

My attitude? I guess if you don't like it, that is fine.

Yes, I will stick to my guns on the pre fab kits are teh suck. I see all these cheap ass plastic kits, like that water cooled case, and I seen some water cooling setup advertised in a newegg sale, I have seen the quality of the compoentns in the kits, and it is like wtf, for a bit of elbow grease, a better product can be had.

I guess you would be the guy to buy a kia and then defend it?

 

[iddqd]

You build your own car?

 

[Deleted member 12106]

You build your own car?

lol....funny you ask, yes, I do If you need any mn12 parts(89-97 ford tbird, merc cougar) I have them