Powerhouse Desktop, budget $3000

P

par0thead151

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 24, 2001
Messages
1,591
My father recently asked me if i could put together a list of parts for a pc he would like me to build for him soon. He is also looking at the apple G5, however i still dislike apple, so i am trying to put together the best presentation i can as to why he should stay with PC's, not mac. hopefully rivaling the mac's power, or even better beating it :D
He does not play any games, however he is big into video editing and heavy CPU crunching such as video rendering, editing, dvd burning and loading photos and editing photos(9 megapixle camera) so the photos are 5-7 meg each. he will be fairly impatient with load times after he spends 3000$ so i think i will get him 2 32 gb WD raptors and put those in raid 0, and a 74 gb raptor for storeing data he cant afford to loose(less likeley to loose data when not in raid 0)
so my question is, what motherboard would you guys recomend? would dual processors benefit him? what CPU, HSF? fan? he would like the system to be fairly quiet. also, he wants to burn a dvd in 10 minutes, or as fast as the markets best can do. how much ram? what type? and PSU...
any advice and opinions are appreciated.
thanks
 
It's really not hard to beat a Mac's power. All though they are faster per clock cycle than Intel's and arguably AMD's, the lack of software support and hardware support hurts them badly. Also the higher cost of ownership isn't exactly a plus.

Beyond that Apple's warranty support and practices have gotten them into legal trouble as of late.

I personally work with both every day. And while I think Apple has a good platform, it has more downsides than upsides.

It can be said theres nothing you can do on a Mac that you can't do as well or better on a PC. The same does not hold true for the Mac. You can not do everything the PC can do on a Mac.

Power wise for 3K I'd go with this:

Coolermaster Stacker $170
Asus NCT-D=$330
Xeon 3.6GHz x2 $1460
1GB ECC Resigstered DDR2 400=$390
Antec TruePower 530Watt $150
Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM SATAx2 (RAID-0)=$220
eVGA 6600GT 128MB PCI-Express=$200

Total Damage=$3010

You can adjust the specs of that if you like to boost performance in other areas should you desire. It will out multitask, outgame and outdo pretty much everything for that price vs. the Mac.

Similarly you can go with an AMD Opteron Setup for the same effect. But I must admit I am an Intel guy and therefore know more about what parts to use vs. AMD's.
 
thanks for the suggestions...
but is there any difference performnace wise in regards to video editing, and stuff like that between intel and AMD?
howabout cooling for each of them?
i would like to make it a relativeley quiet rig, because my father is used to a laptop. so if there is too much noise, he will complain :rolleyes:
and i am a water cooling noob, so i dont want to go that method, besides it would be over kill because he will never over clock.
 
par0thead151 said:
thanks for the suggestions...
but is there any difference performnace wise in regards to video editing, and stuff like that between intel and AMD?
howabout cooling for each of them?
i would like to make it a relativeley quiet rig, because my father is used to a laptop. so if there is too much noise, he will complain :rolleyes:
and i am a water cooling noob, so i dont want to go that method, besides it would be over kill because he will never over clock.
Click to expand...

Go Intel all the way.
 
I don't know, man, it depends on what he wants to do really. The G5 is a very, very impressive peice of work, truth be told. It's probably one of the most efficient working machines that there is. Super clean inside and out, I'm sure it has beautiful temps (proc, case, etc) and with the water-cooled model it would just top it off. But I still love PC's. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!
 
The G5 is a very good CPU for video editing, and there are lot of software packages for that type of thing. That being said, a beefy P4 system is still my bet for a good video machine. I love my A64 for gaming and Linux developement, but the P4 still reigns supreme with regards to video work.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
Coolermaster Stacker $170
Asus NCT-D=$330
Xeon 3.6GHz x2 $1460
1GB ECC Resigstered DDR2 400=$390
Antec TruePower 530Watt $150
Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM SATAx2 (RAID-0)=$220
eVGA 6600GT 128MB PCI-Express=$200

Total Damage=$3010
Click to expand...


See, I see that as
170+330+1460+1460+390+150+220+200 = 4380
 
Laforge said:
See, I see that as
170+330+1460+1460+390+150+220+200 = 4380
Click to expand...


The important question is this

For $3000 what video editing software is he going to get with this system? Windows MovieMaker?

He's going to need to add $999 for Final Cut pro if he goes mac
or $699 for Adobe Premiere Pro if he goes PC

[this will happen a few more times as he adds more programs]

Now, if he's gonna warez -- well, PC warez are easier to find -- That's another reason.. of course, I wouldn't suggest it

Lastly

You don't need 2x 36.7 gig raptors + another 74gb raptor

Do the raid0, and buy a BIG, 7200RPM seagate storage drive for less money.

You don't need the data drive to be "mega"
 
How about those new Intel procesors for 64bit comin out? Wait a bit and get one of them. I'm an AMD man but that 2mb L2 cache should help video editing. $3000 will deff cover it too. ANd get a 21' CRT monitor if you have room.
 
is it primarily video stuff, then?

why intel?

just answer those and i can put my .02 cent in
 
option141 said:
what does he want to do.

why intel?

just answer those and i can put my .02 cent in
Click to expand...

He answered both questions in the original post. Well, not the 'Why Intel' part, but he did specify x86 as a preference. The 'Why Intel' part follows logically, as Intel processors are generally better with regards to video editing than their AMD counterparts.
 
Does the $3000 include the cost of the monitor and software? The monitor is especially a problem with a Mac because the good systems are easily out of that price range once you add in a monitor.

If he was willing to settle on a Mac + monitor for a total budget of $3000, that's a much easier target (Dual G5 1.8GHz w/256MB, FX 5200 and DVD Burner + 20" Cinema display = $2999 LOL). A dual G5 1.8GHz is clobbered by a P4 3.2GHz easily, even in PhotoShop.

You should be able to build a very fast, quiet and high quality system with a $3000 budget. This is what I recommend (from newegg, except as noted... all prices include shipping):

$75 Antec case and ultra quiet 350W PSU (arbitrary... any quiet case/PSU that looks better)
$282 Retail P4 3.4GHz (retail for the warranty)
$32 Arctic Cooling freezer 7 quiet cooler
$169 Intel BOXD925XCVLK motherboard
$400 2GB Samsung DDR2-4200 (2 x 1GB DIMMs) pricewatch
$199 XFX 6600GT 128MB dual DVI (overkill, but was the cheapest dual DVI PureVideo card I could find)
$182 WD Raptor 74GB
$215 Seagate 300GB 7200RPM NCQ (data storage)
$62 NEC 3520A 16x burner
$165 Logitech DiNovo keyboard and mouse
$309 Canopus ACEDVio analog/digital editing card (pricewatch)
$799 Samsung 213T 21.3" 1600x1200 LCD
$149 WinXP Pro
-------
about $3000... if you shop around you can probably squeeze in a decent (not professional) video editing app for the same total price. That system would be fairly quiet and pretty fast. :D

But it's still a pretty good value for the money compated to a Dual G5 Mac 1.8GHz + cinema display for the same price: 2GB vs 256MB, dual DVI video card with purevideo and HDTV capability vs a FX5200 (LOL), almost 5x the hard drive space of much faster storage, a CPU that smokes the dual G5 1.8, a 16x DVD burner (4x DL) vs an 8x single layer, a dedicated analog/DV capture card, etc.
 
i edited dude, i didnt mean to ask the first part

also - AMD has some dual core processors coming out very soon. they're expected to be good with video editing and what not. thats why i asked the intel part. wanted to know if he knew about AMDs ventures.
 
Laforge said:
See, I see that as
170+330+1460+1460+390+150+220+200 = 4380
Click to expand...

No the processors are around 700 each on Pricewatch. So $1460 for both.
 
sorry about the delay....
yes the 3000$ range does not include the software, or monitor, he has a 20 some inch CRT now and is looking at possibly a LCD tv some time in the future....
he has all the software he needs i believe, purchased of course.
I dont know how long he is willint wo wait for this system, so the new intel 64 bit cpu's may be out of the picture...
 
Personally I would let him get the Mac.

If you steer him to a PC and he gets a virus or spyware from normal use, he will blame you. If he gets unlucky and a part dies on him, he will blame you.

And he will have to buy a fair bit of software to do what he wants, that the Mac will just come with for "free" (part of the inflated price, but it is still there).

Does your $3000 budget include software? Because a quality video editing software ain't cheap, nor is something like Photoshop for photos.

All in all, let him get the Mac, and he will be happy, and you will not even have to do tech support. ("sorry Dad, I don't know Mac's, you will have to call Apple")

==>Lazn
 
Lian-Li PC-7 B Plus ========== $75 - (120mm fan)
Enermax Noisetaker 420W ==== $75
P4 3.4Ghz 650 (64-bit/2Mb L2)= $420
2 x 1Gb OCZ 5400 DDR2 ==== $555
Abit AA8 3rd eye 925XE ===== $165
ATI X800XT AIW (TV/remote)= $462
Audigy 2 ZS soundcard ======= $91
74Gb WD Raptor =========== $180 (windows)
2 x 80Gb WD x $60 each ===== $120 (Raid 0 - storage)
Lite On 16x dual layer 1673S === $59
Windows XP Home ========== $90

$2292 (all prices above from newegg)

+ Dell 2001 flat panel $562
+ MX3100 wireless key/mouse - $150

$3004 complete system

You'll love the ATI x800xt All in Wonder.... TV tuner, so many outputs, remote, etc....

EDIT: changed a few things
 
I'm assuming you have the KVM already:
======================================
Lian-Li PC-V1000 - $175
Enermax Noisetaker 420W - $75
Intel D925XECV2 - $195
Pentium 4 630 3.0GHz - $259
2GB Corsair XMS2 PC5400 - $742
MSI X800XL VIVO - $365
Maxtor 300GB 7200RPM SATA (2 of these) - $372
NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive - $55
======================================
Total Cost - $2229

Leaves you $770 if you don't have the KVM, or if you need software. The 2GB of RAM will help a LOT with video editing, and although the X800XL is overpriced, it has VIVO if you need that, besides the fact that you can afford it.
 
I was just goofoing around on Newegg and came up with this:

ANTEC Performance Plus Metallic Gray SOHO File Server Case $75.00

CD/DVD Burners

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Black, Model ND-3520A BK, OEM $56.00

Floppy Drives

NEC 1.44MB Black Internal Floppy Drive, OEM $8.00

Hard Drives


(2)Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD740GD, $363.00

Seagate 7200.8 400GB 7200RPM SATA NCQ Hard Drive, Model ST3400832AS, $349.00

Memory (System Memory)

CORSAIR XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 2GB(1GBx2) ECC Registered DDR PC-3200 - Retail

$615.00

Motherboards - Server


MSI "K8T Master2-FAR" VIA K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for Dual/Single AMD Socket 940 CPU -RETAIL

$210.00

Power Supplies

ZIPPY/EMACS 600W Power Supply With SATA Connector, Model "PSA-6600P-SATA" -RETAIL

$252.50

Processors

(2)AMD Opteron Model 246, 1MB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail $658.00

Video Cards


ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL $229.00


Product total: $2,815.50

Novensu
 
with the $180 left in your budget upgrade the videocard to a nice $400 card, Novensu ! Also, please look at the top of the page.....
[H]ard|Forum > [H]ard|Ware > Intel Processors > Powerhouse Desktop, budget $3000

I think he was looking for an Intel system. Though 2 opterons would kick ass.

I made some changes to mine 2 posts back. Now its perfect!

Though I think he should wait about 3 months to see what/where/when the dual core processors are going to look like. They're so close to coming out. And from the preliminary benches of the dual core A64, it looks like they're going to be just as fast as a 2 opteron system, which is amazing.

And who knows what Intel may pull out of the hat. They might pull out 2 core hyperthreaded systems early. Instead of just on EE's.
 
If all he does is video editing, WHY would you steer him away from a Mac? A Mac is perfect for what hes planning on doing and all the software is pretty much there. Also is he already comfortable with mac? if he is then I would say you are in the wrong for trying to force him into a PC.
 
b/c he probably wants to game on Dad's PC, plus the greater selection of software.

Mac's have some nice points.

But its like that analogy someone made a long time ago.

Macs are like awesome cars, that dont break down, get 100 miles/gallon, but you can only drive them on 5% of the roads.
(simplified version of it)

95% of software is made for PC, etc... or takes an extra 6 months - 1 year to come out on Mac.
 
Big Worm said:
If all he does is video editing, WHY would you steer him away from a Mac?
Click to expand...
I thought the same thing initially... why not just let him get a mac? I changed my mind when I looked at what he could get for $3000.

If he's looking for something speedy, a dual G5 1.8GHz (256MB memory and FX5200 $1999 :rolleyes: ) and Studio monitor ($999) just doesn't cut it. A PC gives a far better bang for the buck, as several of us have deailed above with specific configurations.

I only do video editing on the PC. There's nothing wrong with it.
 
OK, so assuming that you dad knows how to do all the software stuff on either system

Would most likly build a custom pc, more for less simple

As far as video compressing and editing riping compacting ect.....

Pure Clock speed dude Abit makes a Fatlity1 mobo supper dooper

socket 775 3.8Ghz 2Mb l2 cash

and some of the most expensive ram you can find

then head over to swiftech and get a cpu cooler and a northbridge cooler with some nice adjustable fans

then overclock untill you hit the first sign of unstability and down clock about 15fsb for safty... maybe even 20 if your temps change alot in the house

next your goin to need some super speedy drives for maximum speed

problem is pci can only hit 133MB/s... so i would probaly buy a pci video card with all the goodies that he is goin to need should be fairly cheep seeings hes not a gamer
and then find a good pci E raid card and put 3,4 or 5 wd 250GB 8M cash drives in raid 5 all one drive for ease of use and it's redundent what raid was originally made for :D

and last but not least a nice case and power supply
dont bee fooled by power thats cheep and looks good like the 600w generic ps
go for the good and spendy ones well worth every penny dont forget it
specialy when you are running 3-5 hd's and a cpu that will pull like a tractor.

ok so dont forget to cool that northbridge veryinportant for performance have to get a copper block :D i would guess that you should be able to clock upwords of 4.8Ghz on that mobo beeing silent, now i know that sounds high but i got some info that im goin to look for that will help support what im talking about :D happy buying

Update http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53037
take a gander at that

_____________________________________
Current System:
3.0e @ 3.9 1.488v core
OCZ 4400 2x512MB 3-4-4-8 MEM (realy great over clocking ram btw)
Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000-G (springdale) (only bought this mobo becase it was cheep and has nice holes for mounting north bridge water block + still waiting for my epox board to come back, this board is crap for good mem scores cant run t1 unless you want to run like 100mhz fsb tryed 4 diff brands of memory too :( good backup board for cheep tho)
Leadtek 6800GT @ 415-1.12
2 40gb wd 2mb sillicon image chipset raid0 pulling 85-88MB/s
1 250gb wd 8mb
cheap o case and 600w ps
 
You mention video editing and rendering? If he is doing some sort of rendering I would stick to the Quadro or FireGL professional cards. 2 GB would be a standard and possiblily dual processor. If you throw in software, I do not know if it can be done for 3 grand? Might be wrong though.
 
Formula: that would top 3k EASY.

i wouldnt go with teh 6xx series... the increased L2 may look nice, but teh increased latency in teh cache has made it lose some benchmarks

a dual would be nice, but costly. honestly i dont think he would be able to tell the differnece between HT and Duals.
 
Formula: that would top 3k EASY.
Click to expand...

well the way i see it it would cost $2,476.60 from newegg right now
then say about $200 for a nice couple of heatsinks and fans should be plenty

havent figured out how to make a picture work on here yet.... (file)
if anyone can help me i can post a pic with all the items from the site
or par0thead151 can message me for the list and i can e-mail it to ya :D

ps: i build custom computers for a liveing there guy ;)
 
Formula383 said:
well the way i see it it would cost $2,476.60 from newegg right now
then say about $200 for a nice couple of heatsinks and fans should be plenty

havent figured out how to make a picture work on here yet.... (file)
if anyone can help me i can post a pic with all the items from the site
or par0thead151 can message me for the list and i can e-mail it to ya :D

ps: i build custom computers for a liveing there guy ;)
Click to expand...

You need to load the pics on a site that either lets you host images or that you own then link to them here with the IMG tag.
 
ps: i build custom computers for a liveing there guy ;)
Click to expand...
yeah, i do too, and i know very well that a Raid5 array with 3-5 250GB drives and a GOOD controller card would cost a fortune, putting him well over 3k with the rest of the stuff, especially the 670 p4 and a board to run it...not to mention the 1-2GB DDR2, a couple DVD-RW's, a nice X800XT AIW and a good zippy/antec/sparkle/fortran supply... that system wouldnt be hte easiest to make silent either, unless its always on idle and running speedstep, those little buggers get HOT. he doesnt need an Abit Fatal1ty unless he just wants to waste money, they dont offer much more than the "lesser" boards

and its "living"

edit: its not "cash" either, its cache.... learn how to spell what you are building for people...

edit2: whoops, i forgot about the watercooling you mentioned. if he wants to hit 4.8Ghz, which i doubt hes going to overclock at all anyway since this is supposed to be a ROCK SOLID and STABLE computer for his dad, hes gonna need some pretty kickass water cooling, which is gonna run 4-500+ alone
 
IMO, the 925 boards are overpriced for this rig. The few % boost doesn't equate to the cost of the the board. I would just stick with a 915 based board. Also consider if an OS needs to be purchased for the rig.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
It's really not hard to beat a Mac's power. All though they are faster per clock cycle than Intel's and arguably AMD's, the lack of software support and hardware support hurts them badly. Also the higher cost of ownership isn't exactly a plus.

Beyond that Apple's warranty support and practices have gotten them into legal trouble as of late.

I personally work with both every day. And while I think Apple has a good platform, it has more downsides than upsides.

It can be said theres nothing you can do on a Mac that you can't do as well or better on a PC. The same does not hold true for the Mac. You can not do everything the PC can do on a Mac.

Power wise for 3K I'd go with this:

Coolermaster Stacker $170
Asus NCT-D=$330
Xeon 3.6GHz x2 $1460
1GB ECC Resigstered DDR2 400=$390
Antec TruePower 530Watt $150
Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM SATAx2 (RAID-0)=$220
eVGA 6600GT 128MB PCI-Express=$200

Total Damage=$3010

You can adjust the specs of that if you like to boost performance in other areas should you desire. It will out multitask, outgame and outdo pretty much everything for that price vs. the Mac.

Similarly you can go with an AMD Opteron Setup for the same effect. But I must admit I am an Intel guy and therefore know more about what parts to use vs. AMD's.
Click to expand...

In fact, the Opterons wouldn't be as good a fit as anything Netburst-based. Strong SSE2 support is important, as is the fact that Adobe and others direct their code at the Netburst architecture right now.

Even a green guy like me has to recognize the value of a P4 once in awhile.
 
lithium726 said:
Formula: that would top 3k EASY.

i wouldnt go with teh 6xx series... the increased L2 may look nice, but teh increased latency in teh cache has made it lose some benchmarks

a dual would be nice, but costly. honestly i dont think he would be able to tell the differnece between HT and Duals.
Click to expand...

The 6xx series have x86_64 support, which could be important to someone who is doing video editing. Having twice the number of GP and SSE registers should make a noticeable difference in performance.

In terms of burning DVDs, it won't make the process any faster though ;)
 
Josh_B said:
The 6xx series have x86_64 support, which could be important to someone who is doing video editing. Having twice the number of GP and SSE registers should make a noticeable difference in performance.

In terms of burning DVDs, it won't make the process any faster though ;)
Click to expand...
that is true, i hadnt thought about that. although to take advantage of that he would have to use 64-bit windows... which is nearing completion :)
 
For the stated uses, Intel is better than AMD. Multiprocessors are neat, but probably overkill.

A fast P4 6xxx would be ideal, I would use a huge and efficient heatsink like a XP-120 or CNPS7700B AlCu for super cooling with alot less noise than the stock HSFs. If you just want to spend money, a P4EE 3.73 is fun, but the performance gain over a fast P4E is just lame for spending almost double the money.

I'd use an Intel or Asus mobo for maximum stability.

Skip DDR2, the performance gain hovers around zero, and even with a 1066 MHz FSB and DDR2-533, you are looking at a single-digit speed gain at best. And it costs more. To put it nicely, fuck that shit. Get 2+ GB of good PC3200 and be done with it.

A good video card with VIVO and HDTV-out would be ideal. ATI sells alot of cards like this, and since gaming isn't a priority an x600 XT VIVO would probably be plenty.

I'd want a case with 120mm fans for good cooling with low noise. One of the new Antec P180 cases would probably be the ticket.

You'll definitely want a good, quiet and poweful PSU like an Antec Neopower 480.

I'd use a single 74 GB Raptor (supposed to be quieter than the 36 GB version, incidentally) as the boot disk, and then a RAID 0 of some gigantic 300+ GB 7,200 RPM HDDs... you'll want insane storage room on that thing combined with speed for playing with video. I wouldn't want my OS on a RAID 0.

If all of the above leaves you with too much money left over :D , I'd then go with dual 3.4EA Xeon processors and XP Pro.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top