Possible dumb question about USB DACs w headphone amps

J

JR-Orion

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
126
I'm looking into a USB DAC with a nice headphone amp in it. Been looking at the NuForce uDac2 ($130) for months now. I'd like to plug my headphones into it when it's time for 'phones (duh), and run from the uDac2 to my Klipsch 2.1s over the DAC's RCA outs when it's time to shake the room.

But will the volume on the uDac2 work on the RCA outs? Or is the volume knob on the DAC just for the headphone port? I'm hoping the volume on the unit is just for the 'phones. I don't want to mess with setting the volume on the DAC and the Klipsch (and within Win7 I guess).

All in all I'm just looking for something between $100 and $200 that will give me better headphone sound, and better overall sound to my 2.1s compared to the onboard motherboard audio. I also like how the uDac2 is plug n play. No special drivers or bloatware.

Thanks.
 
I can't speak for the uDac2 though I hear it's good, but the FiiO e7/e9 combo is another one of the best bangs for the buck out there. And I'm pretty sure you can hookup your Klipsch to it.
 
From quick searching the volume does affect the RCA out as well. Also saw another post saying that RCA is disabled when a headphone is plugged in.

The uDAC may also have some volume imbalance problems. The Fiio E7 uses digital volume control, and also uses a great DAC when using USB (WM8740).
 
Owning a uDAC (the original), I like it very much for what it is. The E7/E9 combo may be better for you if you want a better amp, although the uDAC does quite well with Grados.

On a really tight budget you may want to go for the Behringer UCA202. Its DAC is as good or better (it certainly measures better than the uDAC, but whether that's audible or not is a different thing...) than the uDAC or E7, and the RCA line-out is not controlled by the volume pot. I have no idea how the amp is. But you'll certainly save a lot of money and give up nothing in line-out quality.
 
Thanks for the info. Good to know that the volume on the uDac does mess with the RCA line-outs.

The Behringer UCA202. Never heard of that one. Could be a lot of fun for $35.

As for the Fiios, the E9 is a headphone amp + USB DAC and has a fixed and a volume controlled line level output, which is perfect for me. Could run the stereo RCA fixed output to my 2.1s when I want to use my bigger speakers. For what it's worth, I also like that it has the larger 1/4 headphone jacks, so I wouldn't have to use the little adapter on my Grados. What I'm not getting is if I need both the E7 and the E9 to do what I'm after? Could get both for $220, which isn't bad...
 
JR-Orion said:
As for the Fiios, the E9 is a headphone amp + USB DAC and has a fixed and a volume controlled line level output, which is perfect for me. Could run the stereo RCA fixed output to my 2.1s when I want to use my bigger speakers. For what it's worth, I also like that it has the larger 1/4 headphone jacks, so I wouldn't have to use the little adapter on my Grados. What I'm not getting is if I need both the E7 and the E9 to do what I'm after? Could get both for $220, which isn't bad...
Click to expand...

CAREFUL! E9 is only an amp, NOT a DAC. The E7 i s a USB DAC and portable amp.
 
The E7 is the DAC and a weak amp. The E9 is a strong amp. Used together it utilizes the amp from the E9 and the DAC from the E7. If your headphones have a low enough impedance I would get the E7 or uDAC2 because the sound will be complete. The E9 is very powerful and you get the volume knob as well as RCA outs. The E9 by itself sounds very strong and will push nearly any headphone, using say a line out from a mobo the sound is very clean, tight, accurate, strong, uncolored, but without a good DAC from another unit or say the E7 it's missing that 'musical finesse'.
 
Just to confuse things a bit more, I've been looking at the Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium HD THX. The one reviewed right here at [H]. Sells for $150 or so. I like the dedicated headphone port on the back of the unit (might be kind of a pain to plug in and out but whatever). Then run the RCA outs to my 2.1 and enjoy better sound all around. But then I have to deal with drivers and a bunch of extra software (Alchemy and so on).

And the HT Omega Claro Halo XT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...TC-Froogle-_-Sound+Card-_-HT+Omega-_-29271005
Dedicated headphone out and RCA outs too
 
Overall I would prefere an external solution compared to an internal sound card. E7 + E9 looks really nice.
 
I haven't heard the Claro Halo XT, though it looks like a great card. I have the Xonar Essence STX though. Both cards use the same headphone amp & audio chipset. Both use top notch DAC's. Sound may be similar, I can't speak for the Claro but the Essence has some very good features, the EQ is very strong and clean, & the 7.1 virtual surround shaping is great, (you can move yourself and the speakers around in a virtual room, it works very well. Opamps can be swapped on both.

The thing about the internal sound cards is the headphone amps are weak. They are rated for up to 600 ohm cans. And that would work all very good and well if you only listen to say classical, easy listening, or jazz. But if you like a lot of OMPH and aggressiveness in your music, 150ohm cans is as high as I would go. I had my Beyer DT990 250ohm hooked up to my Essence on Max gain and the clarity & quality sounded fantastic, but it also sounded like the Guts were just ripped out, as if running them out of an ipod. So just something to keep in mind. Using headphones that are 150ohm and below the sound cards sound very awesome, get very loud with great kick, and can blow ya away. In that respect the Essence sounds very good to my ears. Not sure about that new Creative card. Also if you did go Essence you'd want the ST as it made a couple important improvements/corrections.
 
Last edited:
Yeah man the E7+E9 is very popular :D Gobs of power, & quality chips. GREAT sound.

More great ones around this range are the hifidiy.net Aune & for a bit more the Audio-GD NFB12. If you don't mind waiting for China delivery though that is.
 
E7 +E9 order placed. I'm excited. I've always tried to go with nice speakers and headphones on my PC, but this is my first time moving off motherboard audio. :)

Thanks everyone!
 
I think you will be pretty pleased :D Let us know what ya think.

Enjoy man! :cool:
 
Good choice! You'll have plenty of power to run almost any headphone out there now.

And to clarify, I was stating that the Behringer's line out is not volume-controlled. The uDAC is, and that's one of the reasons why I got it. I sometimes use it with power amps that have no volume control.

Also, for anyone else, you have to be careful with the uDAC - its line-out voltage clips past 1-2 o'clock or so. It shouldn't do that, but it does and if one avoids turning it up that high it's fine.
 
One more question. When using the E7 + E9, I'm guessing the PC USB cable goes into the E9, right? Just want to make sure I have the right cables around to hook this stuff up.
 
The E7 and E9 showed up over the weekend from Amazon. Was too busy to mess with setting things up, but I did get everything out of the boxes. Nice build quality. It's good to see metal rather than plastic. :)

And to answer my own question, the E7 docks into the E9, and the PC's USB cable goes into the E9. Various USB and 3.5mm cables are included. The E9 has an external wall wart style power supply. The E7 has built-in rechargeable batteries that get power from the E9.

To connect everything, looks like I'll be using the fixed RCA outs on the E9 to a cable like this-
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=5612&seq=1&format=2
Then I can plug the 3.5mm male stereo plug on the Klipsch into that ^
 
Last edited:
Dumb question, but how do these external headphone DACs (like the E7/E9) handle 5.1 sound? Or do they?
 
prava said:
Stereo only ;)
Click to expand...

I realize they only output stereo, but do they do anything with a 5.1 source, for example a movie or game? Or do they require that the software does the conversion down to 2 channels?
 
Finally had some time to play with the Fiio E7 / E9 combo. Here goes my first experience with something beyond built-in motherboard sound...

Short review- this is awesome. Super happy and can't wait to spend more time with this setup.

Long review-
It was very easy to get this gear up and running. Dock the E7 into the E9, plug the USB cable into the back of the E9, then wall-wart power into the back of the E9, and finally a stereo-RCA-to-3.5mm cable from the E9 to my powered 2.1s. No special software or drivers required, and the USB DAC was recognized by Win7 right away.

Plug into one of the front panel jacks (3.5mm or 6.35mm) for headphones . Unplug the 'phones to send output to the speakers. I use the larger front plug for my headphones, and the fixed RCA outs for my speakers.

The back of the E9 also has a 3.5mm input, a 3.5mm output (variable compared to the fixed RCA outs), and a high / low gain switch. The gain is for matching the amp to your headphones. The switch is set properly when the volume knob is between 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock when at a good volume level. Apparently this is the "sweet spot" for the volume control. My headphones are 32 ohms, so I set the switch to low and that looks to be right.

I've spent about four hours with headphones, and maybe two with my speakers. Sound quality with the E7 and E9 is insane. Everything is super quiet- zero hiss or hum. Detail is incredible- I've heard things I've never heard before, and this is on CDs that I've been listening to for over 10 years. Vocals, bass, overall power- all great.
 
Nice review. I have heard good things about the E7/E9 combo, but it was the form factor that kept me from buying it. On the other hand having a desktop amp with portable dac/amp is exactly why some people buy it.
 
Forceman said:
I realize they only output stereo, but do they do anything with a 5.1 source, for example a movie or game? Or do they require that the software does the conversion down to 2 channels?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that you should be OK without any software... I think the USB DAC would downconvert to stereo just fine. I haven't watched enough movies on my PC to know, but I do play a lot of games and the two channel sound / stereo imaging has been impressive.

Battou62 said:
Nice review. I have heard good things about the E7/E9 combo, but it was the form factor that kept me from buying it. On the other hand having a desktop amp with portable dac/amp is exactly why some people buy it.
Click to expand...

It is kind of utilitarian looking. The E7 on its own is a rather slick looking unit, but the E9 might be on the plain side for some. For what it's worth, the large volume knob on the E9 has a smooth, high quality feel to it.
 
Thats something similar to what I have been looking for. If they would integrate the E7 into the E9 and make it bigger I would buy one immediately. Make it look like a Maverick Tubemagic, or Zero dac.
 
Know you already bought your solution, but anyone looking for a step up from the e7/e9 might investigate the Nuforce Icon HD // Icon HDP. I'm a proud owner of the HD and I can't really imagine upgrading away from it for my computer audio system. Even things like the Benchmark DAC-1 aren't better in a way that makes me want it over what I have, and that stuff costs so much more.
 
Last edited:
If I'm reading this right, the NuForce Icon HD ($350) is a more simple version of the Icon HDP ($450), right? Like the HDP has a bunch of input / output options, and the HD just has USB, headphones, and RCA outs. Anyone know if the RCA outputs are fixed or variable?

Either way, both look really nice.

*sigh* Now I'm thinking that I should look into some closed headphones to really let the Fiio gear shine. I really like my Grados, but my computer is on the loud side, and it's always fun trying different types of headphones. :)
 
Yeah, let's do this... what's a good sounding sealed headphone for around $100? Been looking at the Sennheiser HD448s and the Shure SRH240s, but for the most part I'm new to the world of closed headphones.

Stuff I look for- accuracy, neutrality, flat response, detail.

Stuff I don't care about- looks, portability.
 
JR-Orion said:
If I'm reading this right, the NuForce Icon HD ($350) is a more simple version of the Icon HDP ($450), right? Like the HDP has a bunch of input / output options, and the HD just has USB, headphones, and RCA outs. Anyone know if the RCA outputs are fixed or variable?
Click to expand...

Volume control affects the RCA outputs, and the outputs only function when there is no headphone connected to the front jack - at least, this is how the HD works. -- and you're right; it's identical hardware (same DAC, headphone amplifier, volume control, rca outs, etc), the HD just lacks the additional inputs that makes the HDP so versatile.
 
JR-Orion said:
Yeah, let's do this... what's a good sounding sealed headphone for around $100? Been looking at the Sennheiser HD448s and the Shure SRH240s, but for the most part I'm new to the world of closed headphones.

Stuff I look for- accuracy, neutrality, flat response, detail.

Stuff I don't care about- looks, portability.
Click to expand...

for your budget you could opt for the SRH440 over the 240.

i'm limited in what i've listened to, but i can tell you the Senn HD280's fit the bill for what you're looking for - accuracy, neutrality, flat response, detail. that's not to say there aren't better options out there, but it's a pair i own and can suggest for your criteria.

i recently picked up a pair of the Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO-80's, and i can tell you these are not what you're looking for :D. they're more of a 'fun' headphone that's heavy on the bass. they're fantastic for gaming, make for a really fun experience. i currently have them EQ'd a bit to bring up the mids, to adjust for their accentuated bass. very happy with them with this adjustment. again, an example of not what you're looking for but a fun alternative nonetheless.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Why not get a Mk5. Hook it up to the Dac then switch between phones and speakers with the Mk5. But I will get the astra amp if you didn't get the Usb Dac already.
 
So, with the E7/E9 setup, where would you plug in the mic for Skype or Ventrilo? Would that still go to the motherboard?

I understand the E7/E9 outputs sound, and there is no input. What is recommended with this set up to input voice only?
 
Liver said:
So, with the E7/E9 setup, where would you plug in the mic for Skype or Ventrilo? Would that still go to the motherboard?

I understand the E7/E9 outputs sound, and there is no input. What is recommended with this set up to input voice only?
Click to expand...


I use a Logitech USB Desktop Microphone: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836111601

It can be as far as five feet away from me and facing the wrong direction and it still picks up my voice very clearly - no one on mumble or ventrilo has any complaint.
 
JR-Orion said:
Finally had some time to play with the Fiio E7 / E9 combo. Here goes my first experience with something beyond built-in motherboard sound...

Short review- this is awesome. Super happy and can't wait to spend more time with this setup.

Long review-
It was very easy to get this gear up and running. Dock the E7 into the E9, plug the USB cable into the back of the E9, then wall-wart power into the back of the E9, and finally a stereo-RCA-to-3.5mm cable from the E9 to my powered 2.1s. No special software or drivers required, and the USB DAC was recognized by Win7 right away.

Plug into one of the front panel jacks (3.5mm or 6.35mm) for headphones . Unplug the 'phones to send output to the speakers. I use the larger front plug for my headphones, and the fixed RCA outs for my speakers.

The back of the E9 also has a 3.5mm input, a 3.5mm output (variable compared to the fixed RCA outs), and a high / low gain switch. The gain is for matching the amp to your headphones. The switch is set properly when the volume knob is between 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock when at a good volume level. Apparently this is the "sweet spot" for the volume control. My headphones are 32 ohms, so I set the switch to low and that looks to be right.

I've spent about four hours with headphones, and maybe two with my speakers. Sound quality with the E7 and E9 is insane. Everything is super quiet- zero hiss or hum. Detail is incredible- I've heard things I've never heard before, and this is on CDs that I've been listening to for over 10 years. Vocals, bass, overall power- all great.
Click to expand...

Mixamp brings a whole new level of immersion to headphones. The E9 is for providing the power headphones may need.

You want better sound you get the mix amp. You need power for your cans you get a E9. You want both you get both
 
E7 and E9 at home on my desk-

FiiO.jpg


And thanks for the info on the closed headphones. Still reading up on that.
 
I haven't bought a set of closed headphones yet, but here's an update on the FiiO E7 / E9 after owning this setup for two months.

Everything sounds great. Music through headphones, music through my 2.1 speakers, and games. Vocals, imaging, clarity, detail, and you can crank the hell out of it when the mood strikes. Overall I'm really impressed.

Pros
+ Sound quality
+ Super easy driverless setup- plug, play, rock away
+ Easy to use
+ Tons of power
+ Totally quiet and hiss-free operation
+ Versatile- the E7 is a useful little unit on it's own

Cons
-Nothing so far

If you use both headphones and speakers, and want an external solution for just over 200 bucks, I don't see how you could go wrong here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top