Possible Cross-Finity "Microstutter" fix!

[Rev3rEND]

Hey guys, I recently got 2 5870's to Crossfire for my Eyefinity setup, seemed like a logical decision. But, what a frustrating trip it's been. Aside from a severe lack of 3x1 Portrait Crossfire support (PLEASE FIX THIS ATI!.) I was getting a really annoying stutter or hitch in gameplay every 5 seconds.

I wrote up a little article on my site for my Journey so far with CrossFinity right here.Crossfire, Eyefinity and You: a Toxic Love Story

Long story short. I tried all the posted "fixes" that worked for some people. But nothing helped me out. I was still getting a split second hefty framerate drop every 5 seconds.

Things I tried:
Changing PCI-Latency (64 to 248)
PCI-e Request Packet Size (Auto to 4096.)
Tighter or Looser RAM timings.
Intel VM function
On-board audio function.
removing non-essential USB ports/devices.
turning off Superfetch in Win7 (I read it worked for a couple people.)
Turning off all firewalls, Monitoring programs, AV stuff.
Turned off Time and Date network synchronization.
disconnecting from network/online.
And
Stopping all non-essential Processes and programs.

NOTHING fixed this 5sec stutter interval.

I decided to try killing the MOM.exe (ATI event monitor I believe.) and CCC.exe (ATI Catalyst Control Center.) By opening Task Manager finding CCC.exe and MOM.exe and hitting "end process", I kindof expected the displays to turn off or games not to load properly or go slower or something. But, to my amazement. My 5sec stutter was GONE.
I tried several racings in DiRT 2 (biggest offender, smoothest gameplay/game destroying "hitch" and back to smooth play REALLY messed me up so bad.)
Just Cause 2, Crysis Warhead, Bad Company 2. Basically, any game I tried (that crossfire would kick on for.) did not exhibit this stutter anymore.

So, that is my tale. For me, shutting down CCC.exe or/and MOM.exe removed the microstutter I was having

Now, I can't say this will fix everyones problem, as we have seen. there are MANY different triggers for microstutter. But, I found mine and squashed it!. I hope this helps some of you as well.

a side note. shutting down CCC.exe and MOM.exe did not, so far, adversely effect any game I have tried, crossfire still turns on, eyefinity still works. Games run better.

 

[shansoft]

in Crysis Warhead, go the the beach house and look around in the middle..
see if that stutter is gone

or go to the original Crysis, to the harbor and look at the sun to see if FPS deep below 25 as its not suppose to.

if both problem are fix, then I might jump back to 5870CF...

 

[R3MF]

fantastic news, given that i have just had a second 2GB VaporX 5870 delivered.

 

[Raap]

FYI, this is not what is called 'microstutter', this is just plain old stutter of some kind. As far as I know, it's also not something the majority experiences.Was it enough to shut down only MOM.exe to get rid of it?

 

[AlvinMaker]

Hey guys, I recently got 2 5870's to Crossfire for my Eyefinity setup, seemed like a logical decision. But, what a frustrating trip it's been. Aside from a severe lack of 3x1 Portrait Crossfire support (PLEASE FIX THIS ATI!.) I was getting a really annoying stutter or hitch in gameplay every 5 seconds.

I wrote up a little article on my site for my Journey so far with CrossFinity right here.Crossfire, Eyefinity and You: a Toxic Love Story

Long story short. I tried all the posted "fixes" that worked for some people. But nothing helped me out. I was still getting a split second hefty framerate drop every 5 seconds.

Things I tried:
Changing PCI-Latency (64 to 248)
PCI-e Request Packet Size (Auto to 4096.)
Tighter or Looser RAM timings.
Intel VM function
On-board audio function.
removing non-essential USB ports/devices.
turning off Superfetch in Win7 (I read it worked for a couple people.)
Turning off all firewalls, Monitoring programs, AV stuff.
Turned off Time and Date network synchronization.
disconnecting from network/online.
And
Stopping all non-essential Processes and programs.

NOTHING fixed this 5sec stutter interval.

I decided to try killing the MOM.exe (ATI event monitor I believe.) and CCC.exe (ATI Catalyst Control Center.) By opening Task Manager finding CCC.exe and MOM.exe and hitting "end process", I kindof expected the displays to turn off or games not to load properly or go slower or something. But, to my amazement. My 5sec stutter was GONE.
I tried several racings in DiRT 2 (biggest offender, smoothest gameplay/game destroying "hitch" and back to smooth play REALLY messed me up so bad.)
Just Cause 2, Crysis Warhead, Bad Company 2. Basically, any game I tried (that crossfire would kick on for.) did not exhibit this stutter anymore.

So, that is my tale. For me, shutting down CCC.exe or/and MOM.exe removed the microstutter I was having

Now, I can't say this will fix everyones problem, as we have seen. there are MANY different triggers for microstutter. But, I found mine and squashed it!. I hope this helps some of you as well.

a side note. shutting down CCC.exe and MOM.exe did not, so far, adversely effect any game I have tried, crossfire still turns on, eyefinity still works. Games run better.

Thanks for chronicling your journey for us! (and what a ride it was, eh? )

I started my new build in December, and grabbed 2 5850s, then scored a 5970... Well I WAS going to keep the 5850s, until I saw how HORRID Tri/Quad GPU scaling was! So I sold them on Ebay and went with the 5970.

Gaming has been good, and I am LOVING Eyefinity, but with BC2, AVP, Metro 2033, and the like, I have been VERY patiently waiting for them to "fix" this so I can add a 5850 to help out my 5970 at these extreme resolutions we are running!

SO, I think I may go ahead and dive in, and hope I am one of the "lucky" ones that gets it to work! (I am hoping my streak continues, as I WAS one who got my 5970, 3 IPS monitors, Accel adaptor, and BAM, it all worked without a hitch- no blinking, no sleep issues, no games I couldn't get to run...knock on wood!!).

I'll do an update in the forum once I get the second card installed and see how my scaling is! Wish me luck!!

 

[Deviationer]

microstuttering and just plain stuttering = PEBKAC, windows install is screwed, or hardware is not completely compatible with each other.

If it was the video card or drivers than many people would be having the same issue. Many not as in 'oh look at these few vocal people', many as in front page article on hardware sites telling ATI WTF!?

 

[Rev3rEND]

in Crysis Warhead, go the the beach house and look around in the middle..
see if that stutter is gone

or go to the original Crysis, to the harbor and look at the sun to see if FPS deep below 25 as its not suppose to.

if both problem are fix, then I might jump back to 5870CF...

Crysis and Warhead run like crap in CF for me anyways, this didn't fix it. I'm updating both of the games now though, So, I'll get back to you when there updated.

FYI, this is not what is called 'microstutter', this is just plain old stutter of some kind. As far as I know, it's also not something the majority experiences.Was it enough to shut down only MOM.exe to get rid of it?

Kinda why I put it in quotes, because I wasn't sure what else to call it, and I know this doesn't happen to the majority. Which is why I said "hope this helps some of you as well." I know I wasn't the only one, as I read some other forums that had this specific issue. Still, if you have other stutter problems, it doesn't hurt to try everything. Oh, and MOM.exe is fine, it's CCC.exe =/
Not sure why that is causing problems. My systems specs are well above what I would say is required for a good crossfire setup..so.. hmm, I'll try updating some drivers for my mobo or something, see if it helps.

microstuttering and just plain stuttering = PEBKAC, windows install is screwed, or hardware is not completely compatible with each other.

If it was the video card or drivers than many people would be having the same issue. Many not as in 'oh look at these few vocal people', many as in front page article on hardware sites telling ATI WTF!?

Hmm, don't remember saying it was a driver issue, hardware issue, or anything like that. I simply posted something that worked for me, I never proclaimed it to be the be all, fix all. So, thanx for you're words of "wisdom"

OR where you talking about many games not working in 3x1 Portrait mode?.. because, thats not my fault either. it's actually a document problem with the drivers since 9.12hotfix. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1035515214

 

[Blacklash]

You know true microstutter once you've seen it. The easy way to recognize it is that it occurs at regular intervals regardless of what is happening in a game. So if you were running forward in a game or watching a flyby bench, it might go; one, two, pause, one, two, pause. It's regular soft pauses on a beat. I've been able to cause microstutter to appear and disappear in some titles/benches by toying with my system ram timings.

Rough game play can come from many different things like; running near or over your card's vram, background service(s) polling your system, hard disk access, shoddy third party drivers, games that are poorly optimized/coded, and a game suddenly loading a mass of textures or effects.

How could you deplete 1Gb of vram? Large textures, high levels of AA and supersampling transparency AA stacked on top of that @ 1920x and up.

 

[Rev3rEND]

You know true microstutter once you've seen it. The easy way to recognize it is that it occurs at regular intervals regardless of what is happening in a game. So if you were running forward in a game or watching a flyby bench, it might go; one, two, pause, one, two, pause. It's regular soft pauses on a beat. I've been able to cause microstutter to appear and disappear in some titles/benches by toying with my system ram timings.

Rough game play can come from many different things like; running near or over your card's vram, background service(s) polling your system, hard disk access, shoddy third party drivers, games that are poorly optimized/coded, and a game suddenly loading a mass of textures or effects.

How could you deplete 1Gb of vram? Large textures, high levels of AA and supersampling transparency AA stacked on top of that @ 1920x and up.

Yeah, I keep thinking that it's a lack of RAM on the videocard. but these type of hitches didn't happen on just one card running in eyefinity.

The worst offenders, for me in Crossfire is AvP, Crysis and Warhead to a lesser degree. These games run nearly flawlessly on a single card (granted, lower fps, but far steadier.)

So... is that just those games? or something wrong with my system?. I need a second crossfire bridge connector? I remember reading Kyle had issue with super high-res gaming without a second. not sure if that applies to eyefinity or not.

 

[shansoft]

Yeah, I keep thinking that it's a lack of RAM on the videocard. but these type of hitches didn't happen on just one card running in eyefinity.

The worst offenders, for me in Crossfire is AvP, Crysis and Warhead to a lesser degree. These games run nearly flawlessly on a single card (granted, lower fps, but far steadier.)

So... is that just those games? or something wrong with my system?. I need a second crossfire bridge connector? I remember reading Kyle had issue with super high-res gaming without a second. not sure if that applies to eyefinity or not.

Crysis runs horrible in general with Multi-GPU setup, due to their engine problem.

About AvP is out of memory issue.
You have to understand that in Multi-GPU setup, part of your VRAM will be taken away for Multi-GPU to function correctly. Which you end up less usable VRAM than single GPU setup.
There are plenty of games that I am seeing breaking 900MB+ memory usage, AvP and Crysis are one of them..

 

[Rev3rEND]

Crysis runs horrible in general with Multi-GPU setup, due to their engine problem.

About AvP is out of memory issue.
You have to understand that in Multi-GPU setup, part of your VRAM will be taken away for Multi-GPU to function correctly. Which you end up less usable VRAM than single GPU setup.
There are plenty of games that I am seeing breaking 900MB+ memory usage, AvP and Crysis are one of them..

Really?.. huh, I didn't know that, good to know, thanx. So, with like AvP, I should either use 1 card (if it runs ok.) or drop the texture detail?

Wait, would I be able to run a 2gb card and a 1gb card, having the 2gb as the "main" card?. or would the 1gb cripple the 2gb into only using half of it's available ram?.

 

[kllrnohj]

You know true microstutter once you've seen it. The easy way to recognize it is that it occurs at regular intervals regardless of what is happening in a game. So if you were running forward in a game or watching a flyby bench, it might go; one, two, pause, one, two, pause. It's regular soft pauses on a beat. I've been able to cause microstutter to appear and disappear in some titles/benches by toying with my system ram timings.

That isn't microstutter, that is just stutter. If you can see it, it isn't microstutter. Microstutter is the effect where 50 fps feels like 40 fps. There is *no* visible stuttering or hitches. It also has nothing to do with system ram...

 

[Raap]

Yah, like kllrnohj says, you can't actually 'see' microstutter, it's just sort of a sluggish quality the game gets. Crossfired/SLI'ed cards can be running at 30'ish fps and feel the same as a single GPU card running at 20'ish fps or even less. It shouldn't really be detectable at all above 40-50fps, however. Also, there's no way to actually fix it as long as the CF/SLI setup is running AFR-mode, which is standard these days. The term 'microstuttering' is just a bit misleading.

Oh, and MOM.exe is fine, it's CCC.exe =/
Not sure why that is causing problems. My systems specs are well above what I would say is required for a good crossfire setup..so.. hmm, I'll try updating some drivers for my mobo or something, see if it helps.

Yeah, try updating everything. Still though, the fact that shutting down the CCC process eliminates the problem may indicate that it's somehow related to CCC settings. Have you tried messing around with those? I think the Catalyst AI setting is the only one directly related to Crossfire; disabling it is effectively the same as disabling Crossfire( and should thus remove your stuttering problem), but you could try setting it to either standard or advanced, depending on which it is on already. Also make sure that killing the CCC process isn't actually at the same time killing your crossfire. I know you said it was still activated, but the only way to check if it's actually using both cards is to either check the load% on both GPU cores with a monitoring program, or looking at the actual framerates in the games themselves.

Oh, and you should probably always be using two SLI/CF bridges. I know it's not a requirement, but as far as I know both companies recommend it.

 

[Rev3rEND]

Yah, like kllrnohj says, you can't actually 'see' microstutter, it's just sort of a sluggish quality the game gets. Crossfired/SLI'ed cards can be running at 30'ish fps and feel the same as a single GPU card running at 20'ish fps or even less. It shouldn't really be detectable at all above 40-50fps, however. Also, there's no way to actually fix it as long as the CF/SLI setup is running AFR-mode, which is standard these days. The term 'microstuttering' is just a bit misleading.


Yeah, try updating everything. Still though, the fact that shutting down the CCC process eliminates the problem may indicate that it's somehow related to CCC settings. Have you tried messing around with those? I think the Catalyst AI setting is the only one directly related to Crossfire; disabling it is effectively the same as disabling Crossfire( and should thus remove your stuttering problem), but you could try setting it to either standard or advanced, depending on which it is on already. Also make sure that killing the CCC process isn't actually at the same time killing your crossfire. I know you said it was still activated, but the only way to check if it's actually using both cards is to either check the load% on both GPU cores with a monitoring program, or looking at the actual framerates in the games themselves.

Oh, and you should probably always be using two SLI/CF bridges. I know it's not a requirement, but as far as I know both companies recommend it.

Thank you for the recommendations. First, I have tried both Standard and Advanced with no change. I haven't really messed a WHOLE lot with the CCC settings aside from the Vsync and AI. So, I'll play around, see what happens.

Also, disabling CCC.exe through Task Manager does not disable Crossfire. the little logo still comes up (have it on for testing purposes.) and I get a really nice boost in performance in several games. (Dirt 2 jumps about 35fps and BC2 jumps about 20fps. to name a few.)

I guess I'll be ordering another CF bridge off of eBay. *sigh*. I have a mobo with a large gap between the pci-e slots,

 

[madcap magician]

Well has anybody else tried the OP's suggestion or is this thread going to define wtf stutter and micro-stutter is? In none of the above posts do I see where any of the posters have made an attempt to try what the OP has. I will tonight when I get home.

Thx for the info OP.

 

[Raap]

I guess I'll be ordering another CF bridge off of eBay. *sigh*. I have a mobo with a large gap between the pci-e slots,

Well, if you don't actually have another one, it's probably not worth ordering a new one as I only figure there'll be a minor chance it will do any good.

Anyway, I just recalled reading some other thread which I think related to this problem, months ago. From what I remember, people with crossfired cards running at 8x PCI-E experienced the problem, while people whose cards/MOBO ran at 16x in both PCI-E slots did not. Could you just confirm that both your cards are running at 16x?

 

[Rev3rEND]

Well, if you don't actually have another one, it's probably not worth ordering a new one as I only figure there'll be a minor chance it will do any good.

Anyway, I just recalled reading some other thread which I think related to this problem, months ago. From what I remember, people with crossfired cards running at 8x PCI-E experienced the problem, while people whose cards/MOBO ran at 16x in both PCI-E slots did not. Could you just confirm that both your cards are running at 16x?

no, it's a 1156 board so, there both 8x. I've read a couple articles that say performance of 8x/8x vs 16x/16x is really miniscule. less than 5%.

 

[Raap]

Yeah, I know the actual fps performance difference isn't very significant, but the reason I mentioned it was because I seem to remember it specifically related to this crossfire-related stuttering issue. Most of those with 8x/8x mentioned they were having the problem, while no one with 16x/16x had it. Will see if I can find the thread, and maybe someone with a 16x/16x crossfire setup could chime in on their experiences.

 

[StormClaw]

Thanks for chronicling your journey for us! (and what a ride it was, eh? )

I started my new build in December, and grabbed 2 5850s, then scored a 5970... Well I WAS going to keep the 5850s, until I saw how HORRID Tri/Quad GPU scaling was! So I sold them on Ebay and went with the 5970.

Gaming has been good, and I am LOVING Eyefinity, but with BC2, AVP, Metro 2033, and the like, I have been VERY patiently waiting for them to "fix" this so I can add a 5850 to help out my 5970 at these extreme resolutions we are running!

SO, I think I may go ahead and dive in, and hope I am one of the "lucky" ones that gets it to work! (I am hoping my streak continues, as I WAS one who got my 5970, 3 IPS monitors, Accel adaptor, and BAM, it all worked without a hitch- no blinking, no sleep issues, no games I couldn't get to run...knock on wood!!).

I'll do an update in the forum once I get the second card installed and see how my scaling is! Wish me luck!!

why are you matchinf 5970 with 5850 ?
you need 5970 + 5870 for Tri

 

[Matrices]

Well, if you don't actually have another one, it's probably not worth ordering a new one as I only figure there'll be a minor chance it will do any good.

Anyway, I just recalled reading some other thread which I think related to this problem, months ago. From what I remember, people with crossfired cards running at 8x PCI-E experienced the problem, while people whose cards/MOBO ran at 16x in both PCI-E slots did not. Could you just confirm that both your cards are running at 16x?

Assuming he is having the same issue that was discussed in the 10-page-long "Does eyefinity work with crossfire?" thread, the PCI-E being 8x or 16x is not the culprit. People with 16x/16x also had issues.

Then again, there's no documentation of whether the 16x/16x had less severe a problem or what.

 

[AlvinMaker]

why are you matchinf 5970 with 5850 ?
you need 5970 + 5870 for Tri

Actually the 5850 is what I will be pairing with my 5970 as well... The extra money for the 5870 is a waste- performance between 5970+5850 and 5970+5870 is darn near identical... (there are quite a few benches with both out there...not to mention, Bodar helped me arrive at that decision, after he tested NUMEROUS combos of 5970s, 5870s, and 5850s...).

 

[Raap]

Assuming he is having the same issue that was discussed in the 10-page-long "Does eyefinity work with crossfire?" thread, the PCI-E being 8x or 16x is not the culprit. People with 16x/16x also had issues.

Then again, there's no documentation of whether the 16x/16x had less severe a problem or what.

Yeah, you're right. This is the thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1506951
Looks like I was mistaken about 8x/8x potentially being the problem. Just about everyone seem to be reporting that they get the problem with Crossfire and eyefinity, but not with single-GPU and eyefinity.

Still, on the last page there one guy says he fixed it, but there's no confirmation.

I believe i have fixed my crossfire eyefinity stuttering. I have tried many things, But the last thing i changed which worked was to disable the pci express link state power management. By default it is set to moderate power savings. Tested the games which game me grief before and they all work fine and very smooth. Games being Just cause 2, BC2 and GTA4.

 

[Rev3rEND]

Yeah, you're right. This is the thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1506951
Looks like I was mistaken about 8x/8x potentially being the problem. Just about everyone seem to be reporting that they get the problem with Crossfire and eyefinity, but not with single-GPU and eyefinity.

Still, on the last page there one guy says he fixed it, but there's no confirmation.

My "Specific" problem wasn't fixed by the PCi express link state power managment.

I went ahead and ordered another bridge. found one way cheaper than the 1st one I bought, so I figured "what the hell". For the most part, I'm getting good scaling with CrossFinity.

I only wish that 3x1 Portrait mode was more supported. Dx9 games simply won't run crossfire while in 3x1 P. But dx10 is fine it seems.

 

[McKie]

Oh, and you should probably always be using two SLI/CF bridges. I know it's not a requirement, but as far as I know both companies recommend it.

I actually asked David Baumann Product Manager at AMD This very question.

and the answer he gave was as follows

For dual card operation only one connector is required - this was software change was instigated when we introduced HD 3870 X2. You'll see that some of the partner designs for the 5700 series are already only coming with one connector.