Poor Apple TV App Sales Letting Down Developers

[dr.stevil]

The biggest things the others can't do is play Apple iTunes, Music, and App Store content (which may have the option to be shared across multiple devices). That's really it....

...Another minor perk, but not a huge one, would have been 3D support.

Don't forget AirPlay. Probably one of the best features of the AppleTV IMO, if you happen to own another iOS device.

Also, I've watched 3D movies just fine on my ATV with Plex. What doesn't the Apple TV support? Or is it that iTunes doesn't sell them or something?

 

[VirtualMirage]

Don't forget AirPlay. Probably one of the best features of the AppleTV IMO, if you happen to own another iOS device.

Also, I've watched 3D movies just fine on my ATV with Plex. What doesn't the Apple TV support? Or is it that iTunes doesn't sell them or something?

So you are saying the Plex app on an unmodified 4th Gen AppleTV plays 3D content? Interesting... Is it full resolution or half resolution? Do you have to manually switch the TV to 3D mode or does it auto switch? I did a quick look up online and I am seeing some conflicting answers on the questions above. It would be nice if it was full resolution and auto switch.

As far as my comment on that, the specs don't list native 3D support, there is no 3D content from iTunes nor can I access 3D content from streaming providers such as Netflix (which I can on my Smart TV and 3D Bluray player). Also, none of their current games offer 3D support. Of course, I see no reason why the hardware shouldn't be capable of supporting it (it certainly is powerful enough and has the HDMI spec to do so).

Not sure if Plex is what would be best for me. 99% of my content is in iTunes or Vudu, very little in the way of ripped (with exception to a few DVDs I have that are not available digitally). And even those I just drop into my iTunes library and manage from there with no issues. I am looking to see if there is Vudu support in Plex, but I am coming up empty handed. The major downside I have to Vudu is that I am forced to stream my movies. While I can download them locally to a mobile device or to my PC to watch on them, I haven't found a way to make that location act as a media server library like iTunes and broadcast the movie to my TV via my home network. Due to bandwidth caps and small instances of internet outages, I prefer having local copies of my movies to watch anytime I want as many times as I want without negative impact to my internet service.

 

[dr.stevil]

So you are saying the Plex app on an unmodified 4th Gen AppleTV plays 3D content? Interesting... Is it full resolution or half resolution? Do you have to manually switch the TV to 3D mode or does it auto switch? I did a quick look up online and I am seeing some conflicting answers on the questions above. It would be nice if it was full resolution and auto switch.

As far as my comment on that, the specs don't list native 3D support, there is no 3D content from iTunes nor can I access 3D content from streaming providers such as Netflix (which I can on my Smart TV and 3D Bluray player). Also, none of their current games offer 3D support. Of course, I see no reason why the hardware shouldn't be capable of supporting it (it certainly is powerful enough and has the HDMI spec to do so).

Not sure if Plex is what would be best for me. 99% of my content is in iTunes or Vudu, very little in the way of ripped (with exception to a few DVDs I have that are not available digitally). And even those I just drop into my iTunes library and manage from there with no issues. I am looking to see if there is Vudu support in Plex, but I am coming up empty handed. The major downside I have to Vudu is that I am forced to stream my movies. While I can download them locally to a mobile device or to my PC to watch on them, I haven't found a way to make that location act as a media server library like iTunes and broadcast the movie to my TV via my home network. Due to bandwidth caps and small instances of internet outages, I prefer having local copies of my movies to watch anytime I want as many times as I want without negative impact to my internet service.

It was a gen 3 ATV and yeah, it was SBS content. So I guess, essentially, my TV was actually doing the heavy lifting. Is there any other kind of 3D for home use? I can honestly say that I've only used the 3D feature a handful of times.

 

[VirtualMirage]

It was a gen 3 ATV and yeah, it was SBS content. So I guess, essentially, my TV was actually doing the heavy lifting. Is there any other kind of 3D for home use? I can honestly say that I've only used the 3D feature a handful of times.

I don't do too much 3D. But when I do, it is usually watching 3D Bluray or on Netflix. I'm not keen on purchasing 3D digital movies quite yet since its availability is limited at the moment and expensive (usually cheaper for me to buy a 3D Bluray that gives me 2D digital copy and 2D Bluray to boot). I've used 3D a little bit with my PS3 as well (mainly Gran Turismo).

I was just trying to think of any potential missed opportunities Apple could have taken to give it a leg up on the competition. I think some apps/games could have taken advantage of it. Again, nothing major, just a perk, a feather in the cap.

But as I mentioned before, I think the real opportunity missed is not offering native 1080P24 output. Of course, none of its direct competitors offer it either. But I feel, from a personal standpoint, that it would have gotten the attention of movie buffs and video aficionados if Apple was to offer such capability. And it wouldn't require Apple to recode their iTunes movies. Pretty much all content that was filmed at 24fps natively is already encoded at 24fps on iTunes, same goes for what Netflix offers.

 

[foxnews]

They really priced it too high vs. the competition. What does this thing do that Roku/FireTV/Etc or game consoles can't do?

In fact, I believe the new Roku & FireTV have some 4k capabilities, and the new AppleTV doesn't. That's a blown opportunity there.

what can an iphone do that a android phone can't? same thing for ipod. but iphone and ipod sells millions.

what can an Toyota Camry do that a Ford can't? and yet Totoya sells millions of Camry.

 

[foxnews]

Same thing is happening to Apple after Jobs that happened to Apple before Jobs. Same shit > gets stale > gets lame.

did you check Google TV land that was release a year ahead of Apple tvOS? it is a ghost town over there.

Apple tv app store has more apps within a month of its release than Google tv that is on the market for 2 years.

 

[foxnews]

Except, the Remote app does not work with the new Apple TV.

Apple just announced today they are working on a remote app to support it - available in like 4-6 months from now. For real?

the Remote app is now working since apple released tvOS 9.1 two days ago. in fact, I am using the app to type in password for my NAS.

the new Remote app, that they will release in 6 months, will have Siri.

 

[mi7chy]

Yup, pretty much this, and airplay from iPads. It just really works well.

Is mirroring still limited to crappy 720p with artifacts from compression?

 

[mi7chy]

Is it me or do devices like the Apple TV seem redundant and in a lot of ways more more limited than what even $20 Android prepaid phones can already do like casting media to multiple Chromecasts that is a fifth of the cost each and even support things like torrent via Flud. Also, why would you make greedy company profitable being forced to buy a different version of the same app for different devices like iPhone, iPad, iPad Prosumer, Apple TV, etc. when it makes a lot more sense to buy one Google app that works across all devices?

 

[foxnews]

Is it me or do devices like the Apple TV seem redundant and in a lot of ways more more limited than what even $20 Android prepaid phones can already do like casting media to multiple Chromecasts that is a fifth of the cost each and even support things like torrent via Flud. Also, why would you make greedy company profitable being forced to buy a different version of the same app for different devices like iPhone, iPad, iPad Prosumer, Apple TV, etc. when it makes a lot more sense to buy one Google app that works across all devices?

yeah it is you

 

[mi7chy]

yeah it is you

Doubt I'm the only non-iTard. Given the marketshare it's probably like 8:2.

 

[VirtualMirage]

Is it me or do devices like the Apple TV seem redundant and in a lot of ways more more limited than what even $20 Android prepaid phones can already do like casting media to multiple Chromecasts that is a fifth of the cost each and even support things like torrent via Flud. Also, why would you make greedy company profitable being forced to buy a different version of the same app for different devices like iPhone, iPad, iPad Prosumer, Apple TV, etc. when it makes a lot more sense to buy one Google app that works across all devices?

Have you even used an Apple device???

So far, all the apps I own are allowed to work across all my supported devices at no extra charge. The Apple TV with app support is still too new to see what developers are going to do. But so far, I have around 2 or 3 apps that I bought for my iPhones and iPad that are now available on Apple TV at no additional cost. I imagine as more apps become available on Apple TV that are already available on the other devices, we'll see those will be available at no cost too.

The only time where I don't see it happening is if: 1) the app is quite a bit different in terms of content, 2) the developer chooses to charge separately for it. But either of those choices is on the developer and not Apple, so your hate mongering example against Apple isn't valid. If you want to blame anyone for the decision on that part, blame the developer.

 

[dr.stevil]

But as I mentioned before, I think the real opportunity missed is not offering native 1080P24 output. Of course, none of its direct competitors offer it either. But I feel, from a personal standpoint, that it would have gotten the attention of movie buffs and video aficionados if Apple was to offer such capability. And it wouldn't require Apple to recode their iTunes movies. Pretty much all content that was filmed at 24fps natively is already encoded at 24fps on iTunes, same goes for what Netflix offers.

Perhaps they'll add it in a future update. As far as I know, however, isn't that a limitation in the TV more so than the box? IIRC, 24fps on a 60hz TV will cause some sort of visual errors since it's not evenly divisible? So you'd either need a 120hz set or one that can actually run at 48hz?

regardless, I'm not enough of a film guy to tell the difference lol

So did you have a previous gen apple TV? How would you compare it to the previous gen? I may try and get a 4th gen sometime after the holidays. People seem to be pretty happy with it and need some sort of streaming box for the bedroom

 

[Yakk]

Is mirroring still limited to crappy 720p with artifacts from compression?

Max spec per iOS Developer Library :

WiFi
1920x1080
Total bit rate: 40000 kbps
Video bit rate: 39000 kbps
Keyframes: 90

 

[VirtualMirage]

Perhaps they'll add it in a future update. As far as I know, however, isn't that a limitation in the TV more so than the box? IIRC, 24fps on a 60hz TV will cause some sort of visual errors since it's not evenly divisible? So you'd either need a 120hz set or one that can actually run at 48hz?

regardless, I'm not enough of a film guy to tell the difference lol

So did you have a previous gen apple TV? How would you compare it to the previous gen? I may try and get a 4th gen sometime after the holidays. People seem to be pretty happy with it and need some sort of streaming box for the bedroom

60 Hz as a TV output is an old standard that has been disappearing more and more every year. Computer monitors, on the other hand, have been slower to adopt this change.

Most new TVs as well as ones sold over the past 5+ years offer a 24fps mode and pretty much all Blu Ray movies, most DVDs, and digital videos are encoded at 24fps if the movie was filmed at that frame rate. Old tapes and early DVDs were encoded at 30 or 60 fps with interpolation built in to match TV output (typically 3:2). This is why when you would watch a movie juddering would be noticeable on quick movements, especially side to side panning.

But yes, the refresh rate of the TV needs to be easily divisible by 24. For LCD/LED/OLED tvs, this is usually 120/240/480 Hz refresh. For plasma, they are usually listed as 600 Hz subfield for 30 Hz and 60Hz content while movie material material is usually at around 480 Hz subfield running at 96 Hz for 24fps content.

When watching a Blu Ray at 1080P24, the TV automatically changes refresh mode so as to display the frame rate evenly without interpolation.

I did own a previous gen Apple TV, a 3rd gen, for a few years prior to purchasing the 4th gen 64GB version in October (received beginning of November). The main things I use my Apple TV for is Netflix, Hulu Plus, Vevo, Vimeo, Trailers, and iTunes movies.

If you have an iPad or iPhone, setup is real easy since it can link with your device and pull your WiFi and iCloud settings from it. Out the gate the Apple TV lacked some polish, it had some bugs and performance issues that the older Apple TV did not have. Apple has been quick to fix those with the quick updates of 9.0.1 and 9.1. Having to download apps from the get go to use the basic essentials where before they were readily available as channels on the previous Apple TV, along with having to resupply all my credentials again, was a minor and temporary annoyance. On the plus side, I don't have a bunch of channels I never used.

Performance as of update 9.1 has been smooth and quick. I do feel that the interfaces for Hulu and Netflix can sometimes be a little slower than that found on the 3rd Gen, but quality and speed of watching shows hasn't changed. I can chalk some of the interface slowdown being due to the newer interface having a lot more visual detail that is constantly being pulled from the web along with some performance bugs that I have seen the developers slowly, but surely squash. The older Apple TV channels had a much more simplified interface, both the newer and older interfaces are double edge swords. The older one was simpler and quicker but lacked details and information. The newer one has what the older one is lacking but it is now more data that has to be pulled from the web to keep up to date. I foresee this being less and less of an issue as the developers optimize their code and for those with faster internet speeds (I currently have 75 down, 8 up).

I would like to see more apps become available that cater more towards my interests. I do like that 60fps video is now showing at 60fps. The older Apple TV limited everything to 1080P30. The new Apple TV is capable of displaying at up to 1080P60. So that's a plus. I like that I can now add bluetooth headphones to the unit as well as turn on and off a nighttime listening mode. I like the new remote and that I can control my volume with it. Search capabilities are better too, both with and without using Siri. I have higher hopes that Vudu and Amazon Prime will be available for the new Apple TV than I did with the old Apple TV. The new video screensavers are nice, but not a must buy reason.

The only things I miss about the old Apple TV is it had an digital optical output (the new one does not), my Harmony remote could turn it off (my Harmony remote is currently unable to turn off the new Apple TV), and I could set my screensaver to my Flickr account.

If the new Apple TV is missing anything it would be 1080P24 (as I mentioned), native 3D (again, mentioned earlier), and FaceTime. I think those capabilities would have given the Apple TV an advantage that others are missing, allowing it to stand out a little more against the competition. Some may argue 4K, but other than preparing for its takeover, I don't think the content and user install base is quite there yet.

So if you like the advantages I mentioned and foresee using them, then the new Apple TV may better suit you. If you plan to use it for very basic use, then maybe the older Apple TV will work just fine. Just don't plan on many more updates.