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Poor Apogee performance

R

rincewind

Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
888
I'm worried about the idle/load delta my Apogee is turning in on an E6400 @ 8x400. Basically, it is 20c which is much higher than I'm used to with WC. Heck, a half-decent aircooler should be under that. I'm using average of CoreTemp/TAT readings btw.

Loop is fairly simple, in a weird order due to mimimize tubing :

Laing D5
->DD Maze4 (cooling X1900XT @ XTX)
->Swiftech Apogee (cooling E6400 @ 400x8)
->BIP 120.2 with 4 Sharkoon Silent Eagles in push/pull config
->T-Line for fillport res
->back to pump

The air exiting the rad is quite cool, and using much higher RPM fans makes only a 2c difference to load temps. The GPU is also being cooled extremely well, so these factors indicate the rad is easily coping with the thermal load (as it should).
I've remounted the block for the third time now, and it makes no difference. I'm using a very fine layer of AS5 as usual, and based on the miniscule amount remaining in the centre of the IHS following previous installs it was making good contact anyway.

So why the big delta - is the Apogee that bad? I was under the impression they were pretty good for multi-block installs, but I'm tempted to de-gunk the Storm and re-install that instead. I can't believe the loop order and amount of fluid in it would have make an appreciable difference, so it really seems like the Apogee is the source of the problem.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
The Apogee is a great block. I had a similar issue like yours and here is what I did:

"I had to mod the mount for the Apogee GT block as the black nuts they provide you with isn't doesn't provide enough holding pressure to make a great contact. I am using 4 6/32nd's brass knurled knobs with open ends so now I can finally compress the springs on the block mount. Prior to this, I was geting 26/28c idles temps and 44/45c load temps using 1.45vcore. Now with these new nuts, I get 21/22c idle and load is 37/38c. Getting better"

This was a quote from another forum that I made a post in. Try it out, might help you
 
Thx, I'll try adding washers to get a tighter fit! Your delta seems pretty high though - what CPU do you have and how fast is it running (I take it the quoted voltage stands!)?
 
rincewind said:
Thx, I'll try adding washers to get a tighter fit! Your delta seems pretty high though - what CPU do you have and how fast is it running (I take it the quoted voltage stands!)?
Click to expand...

Im at 1.4875 Vcore and now @ 3.61GHz.....
 
Ah, makes more sense now! Still looks a little high, but you have a smaller delta than me and I'm only using stock volts. The washers made a 2c difference to both idle and load at the cost of being a lot more hassle to install - having to compress the springs to get the nuts on, with tubing in the way :( So my delta is still huge.
My XT has a 7c idle/load difference which is slightly lower than I expected for my CPU (around 10c) and the nuts were only hand-tightened on the Maze4. Loading the GPU makes no difference to CPU temps, so I can be confident the loop order really doesn't matter. It pains me to take apart my setup, but I'm gonna put the Storm back in and see what happens - will give me a chance to take the Apogee apart and make sure there aren't any obvious machining faults. The ole Storm didn't gunk up that badly considering how many hours it has been used, but still needs a clean before installation. It is a bit sexier too :D
 
Well, thanks for trying what I told ya. Made some difference atleast.
 
What other blocks and coolers have you used? A large delta can also be indicative of a bad IHS, unless it's tested alright with other coolers.
 
Only the stock cooler, which had a 32c delta running at 350x8 iirc. The Storm is going in tonight if I get time, and if that doesn't show an improvement maybe I'll look into taking off the IHS. I'd rather not remove it unless these cores are pretty resistant to being crushed - I remember squishing an AthlonXP when mounting a Swiftech HSF, although that wouldn't be a concern with the Apogee mounting mechanism I suppose ;)
The Storm should be much better at direct die cooling, but I'm not sure what the LGA775 mounting mechanism is like for that. The S939 mounting used through-bolts with springs, and could be put on with a decent amount of pressure.
 
s775 mounts the same as 939, but with four corners instead of two ends. :) Make sure you tighten diagonals first, or even the Apogee will crush the core.
 
rincewind said:
Only the stock cooler, which had a 32c delta running at 350x8 iirc. The Storm is going in tonight if I get time, and if that doesn't show an improvement maybe I'll look into taking off the IHS. I'd rather not remove it unless these cores are pretty resistant to being crushed - I remember squishing an AthlonXP when mounting a Swiftech HSF, although that wouldn't be a concern with the Apogee mounting mechanism I suppose ;)
The Storm should be much better at direct die cooling, but I'm not sure what the LGA775 mounting mechanism is like for that. The S939 mounting used through-bolts with springs, and could be put on with a decent amount of pressure.
Click to expand...

Is it even possible to remove a core2 IHS? I'm not sure its the same as removing a AMD one. I think you'd be better off trying to lap the IHS some first. My 6600's IHS is fairly concave as well, I just added a little extra AS5 in the middle and tightened it down. I'm not sure what my delta is but I get about 38C load at 3.5ghz 1.49vcore with a 7800GT in the loop. It runs about 4C cooler than my opty 170 did.
 
rincewind said:
I'm worried about the idle/load delta my Apogee is turning in on an E6400 @ 8x400. Basically, it is 20c which is much higher than I'm used to with WC. Heck, a half-decent aircooler should be under that. I'm using average of CoreTemp/TAT readings btw.

Loop is fairly simple, in a weird order due to mimimize tubing :

Laing D5
->DD Maze4 (cooling X1900XT @ XTX)
->Swiftech Apogee (cooling E6400 @ 400x8)
->BIP 120.2 with 4 Sharkoon Silent Eagles in push/pull config
->T-Line for fillport res
->back to pump

The air exiting the rad is quite cool, and using much higher RPM fans makes only a 2c difference to load temps. The GPU is also being cooled extremely well, so these factors indicate the rad is easily coping with the thermal load (as it should).
I've remounted the block for the third time now, and it makes no difference. I'm using a very fine layer of AS5 as usual, and based on the miniscule amount remaining in the centre of the IHS following previous installs it was making good contact anyway.

So why the big delta - is the Apogee that bad? I was under the impression they were pretty good for multi-block installs, but I'm tempted to de-gunk the Storm and re-install that instead. I can't believe the loop order and amount of fluid in it would have make an appreciable difference, so it really seems like the Apogee is the source of the problem.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

OK, since you and I pretty much were experiencing the same issues with our temps, I un-installed my 2 day old water cooling setup, and installed that "THICKER" o-ring, and rearranged my cooling loop order. Before my loop went like this: RES-PUMP-CPU-RAD-RES I changed this to RES-PUMP-RAD-CPU-RES And now with using this THINCKER O-ring on the base of the block TEMP's seem to be controlled better now. Not sure if it was the loop order that I did, or the new o-ring, but I suggest you try what I did. Good luck
 
Imitation said:
Is it even possible to remove a core2 IHS? I'm not sure its the same as removing a AMD one. I think you'd be better off trying to lap the IHS some first.
Click to expand...

It's possible, infact it's been done, but it is soldered on so I wouldn't recommend it...
 
No, my post didn't post :confused:
Sorry, didn't try the o-ring, but there is definitely something up with my Apogee although it looks okay. Long story short the Storm is back and kicking botty! 8x425, 1.4v and a delta of 12c - once the AS5 cures might be single-digit :)
Cheers peeps
 
rincewind said:
No, my post didn't post :confused:
Sorry, didn't try the o-ring, but there is definitely something up with my Apogee although it looks okay. Long story short the Storm is back and kicking botty! 8x425, 1.4v and a delta of 12c - once the AS5 cures might be single-digit :)
Cheers peeps
Click to expand...

So you got Strom too. I am planning to change the Apogee, it sucks. One time some one told me that it perform better than Thermaltake's Block, but i doubt it. :mad:

So what temperatures you got with Apogee and Strom.
 
annaconda said:
So you got Strom too. I am planning to change the Apogee, it sucks. One time some one told me that it perform better than Thermaltake's Block, but i doubt it. :mad:

So what temperatures you got with Apogee and Strom.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it came with my original Apex kit - considering how much more they cost, it's strange that the price didn't drop when they switched to the Apogee. I don't know what block to suggest, alhough the D-Tek Fuzion looks pretty good.

As for temps, I'm currently idling at 16c and loading at 26c with the Storm. 400x8 and 1.4v (425x8 wasn't fully stable but I have terrible VDroop and dip below 1.3v under load so that probably caused the instability). With the Apogee it was 18c idle and 39c load, 400x8 with stock volts. Ambient temps are around 13c, or rather cold for a bedroom! Still think my delta is a little high, but I'm happy enough that I can stop fretting and actually use my computer instead :D
 
Well, I finally gave up on my Apogee GT block, and am getting a D-Tek fusion now. I'll let you now how it performs
 
You had Apogee GT, and you are not happy with it. I have Apogee umm. Do you want to GIVE YOUR Apogee GT to me :D
 
annaconda said:
You had Apogee GT, and you are not happy with it. I have Apogee umm. Do you want to GIVE YOUR Apogee GT to me :D
Click to expand...

The delta from idle to load was way to much. 27/28c from idle to load:rolleyes: . Been talking with the great guys @ www.shoppts.com and the D-Tek fuzion seems to be the performance block.
 
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