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pond pump as an inline?

B

bigbadgreen

Gawd
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
680
I am re-doing my setup to fit my new A64 system. I'd like to know if I would be able to run my current pump as an inline pump instead of a submerged pump so that I can cut down on the added heat the pump puts into the water, although my radiator and fans can easily handle the load.

the pump is a little giant PCL-020 rated at 300-400GPH

it says it's thermally protected on the casing, whatever that means.

It's not the most important detail in the world, but I'd like to try it inline, I just don't want to burn the pump up. So far it's only been ran submerged and runs like a beast. It's got 12 ft of head. that's another question of mine. I'm planning on running a cpu block, chipset block, and VGA block. but for now all I have is a TDX with 1/2" tubing all around with a 95 mustang heatercore as my rad. Is the TDX a good high flow block, or what nozzle # would be a good one to start with?
 
I have a very somilar setup to yours, except I have very little head. I am using a inline pond pump made my a company named pondmaster. It cranks out 250 gph and has a max lift of 10ft. (DONT get this confused with head, this means the pump can move water 10 feet vertical before it fails to move water) Say you have 12 ft of horizontal line that goes up on an incline of say 2 ft, the 2 ft incline would be considered head.

Anywho thermal protection means if the pump overheats (motor failure) then it will shutoff (think of it as a thermal reset) Mostly it serves as a safeguard to fires.

I paid $60 for my pump at a local retailer, although I know its cheaper instore.

Hope this helps :)

PS. For your tdx block I would recommend using the nozzle with the biggest bore if you are going to be using 300+ gph. With that much flow there is so much water flowing through the block all nozzles are gonig to do is reduce that rated gph amount. Make sure to use blocks that have decent, non restricting bores in them or your flow will rapidly decrease (my chipset block kills my flow because of how small it is) (its a dd maze 4 chipset block).
 
thanks for the reply. Yes, I guess I got head and lift confused. It has 12 ft lift. I'll probably end up running inline and taking temp readings for the first few hours of operation just to make sure.
 
same pump, I'm just switching it over from socket A finally, to my A64. new block, new setup. this time I'm doing it right and not just throwing things together.
 
thanks for the link bill, I must have missed that on the spec sheet at little giants website. Looks like I'm going submersed. not the end of the world. glad I asked and didn't burn it up.
 
a quick cut and paste, just so you have a realistic idea of where most of the "pump heat" really is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
energy is energy, you can convert it but not destroy it
the actual motion of the coolant is adding energy to the loop

There is an elementary equation from basic thermodynamics that states that the rate of heat transfer (Q) equals the mass flow rate (M) times a Constant (the specific heat of water) times the Delta T (fluid temp out minus fluid temp in):

Q = M x C x Delta T

In other words, the rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to mass flow rate. If you increase the flow rate, you will then increase the rate of heat transfer. Since you cannot mess with mother nature, it is very naive to think it works any other way.

Assume the CPU inserts a constant rate of energy (Q) into the cooling system. Then, from the relationship above, increasing the mass flow rate must result in a smaller delta T because Q remains constant. This smaller Delta T (fluid out - fluid in) also means that the average fluid temperature in the water block is somewhat lower even though the rate of heat transfer has not changed.

Now let's look at the heat transfer from the CPU to the water:

The rate of heat transfer between two points is proportional to the temperature difference between those points.

In our case, this Delta T (not to be confused with the one above) is the temperature of the CPU minus the average water temperature in the water block. Lowering the average water temperature, as we did above by increasing the flow rate, means we have a little better heat transfer from the CPU to the now somewhat cooler water. The result is that the CPU runs a little cooler.

This all says that if you increase the flow rate and everything else remains constant, you will decrease the CPU temperature. However, everything else will not remain constant if you increase the flow rate by using a larger pump.

The pump uses some amount of electrical energy. This energy must end up somewhere. A relatively small amount of it is dissipated as heat from the motor. The overwhelming majority of it is converted from electrical energy to mechanical energy in the form of a rotating shaft that does real work on the water.

This energy ends up in the water by increasing its temperature. It is called "pump heat" and can be very significant.

An Eheim 1048 is rated at 10 watts, almost all of which ends up in the water. I understand a very overclocked CPU is good for upwards of 75 watts. As you can see, a smaller pump like the 1048 contributes about 13% to the total heat load on a system with an energy hungry CPU. With other more common CPUs running at 25 to 50 watts, this percentage is much higher and is therefore much more significant.

An interesting aside for non-believers: This is also why excessive use of a blender to mix up frozen orange juice results in the juice not being as cold as expected. Also, nuclear power plants use primarily pump heat (from three or four 6,000 HP pumps) to heat up almost 75,000 gallons of water from 200 degrees F to about 550 degrees in about six hours or less.

The point here is that there is a trade off in how big a pump to use to increase the flow rate. More flow is beneficial. It is best to achieve the desired flow with as small a pump as possible and flow paths with minimum flow resistance.

The bigger the pump, the more heat is added to the system. Eheim makes a 50 watt unit that I see talked about every now and then. This guy is probably a bigger heat load on the cooling system than the CPU itself.
Click to expand...

PS RhoXS is a nuclear engineer, and has more than a passing understanding of cooling
hmm... the link is busted
here is the original thread its quite long also take special note of BillA's contributions
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=78055&highlight=thermodynamics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
I remeber reading that article a while back but forgot where it was, thanks ice :)
 
DaRkF0g said:
I have a very somilar setup to yours, except I have very little head. I am using a inline pond pump made my a company named pondmaster. It cranks out 250 gph and has a max lift of 10ft. (DONT get this confused with head, this means the pump can move water 10 feet vertical before it fails to move water) Say you have 12 ft of horizontal line that goes up on an incline of say 2 ft, the 2 ft incline would be considered head.

Anywho thermal protection means if the pump overheats (motor failure) then it will shutoff (think of it as a thermal reset) Mostly it serves as a safeguard to fires.

I paid $60 for my pump at a local retailer, although I know its cheaper instore.

Hope this helps :)

PS. For your tdx block I would recommend using the nozzle with the biggest bore if you are going to be using 300+ gph. With that much flow there is so much water flowing through the block all nozzles are gonig to do is reduce that rated gph amount. Make sure to use blocks that have decent, non restricting bores in them or your flow will rapidly decrease (my chipset block kills my flow because of how small it is) (its a dd maze 4 chipset block).
Click to expand...

you have a very little head!? that's too bad!

sorry, i had to do it.
:D
 
I was kind of surprised the thread got his far actually… ;)
 
now youve forced me to go get my camera :rolleyes: :p

Pump.jpg

pumpL.jpg


maybe some day that will be hooked up to a whole rack worth of watercooled computers
till then its got just a bit too much "pump heat" :p
 
Lol nice.

BTW wht does it have a pressure switch on it??

EDIT: DAMN that thing has one hell of an amp draw on it :eek:
 
ROFLMAO

now now now,
you need to learn to lose gracefully instead of ninja edit in a nuclear pump system

:p :p :p
 
Ice Czar said:
ROFLMAO

now now now,
you need to learn to lose gracefully instead of ninja edit in a nuclear pump system
Click to expand...
ROFLMAO that was the best way of putting it. Good laugh right there :D

Well atleast I didnt post THIS one up, thought It may be a little overkill:D


Ice Czar said:
maybe some day that will be hooked up to a whole rack worth of watercooled computers
Click to expand...
Thats just a disturbing thought /me twitches
 
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