Poll/opinion is Killzone Realtime or not

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BlckRaven

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
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Killzone.

The question on the mind of most is: Is this realtime or is this pre-rendered CG ? :eek:

killzone-next-gen-20050516075937991.jpg


killzone-next-gen-20050516075934164.jpg


video here
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html

Here’s my take on this.

I carefully watched the a high rez version of the demo in question

Why would someone ask is this realtime. Well, there is no much that we really know of PS3. This is new hardware, new tech, new cpus, new Gpu .Noboby can fully understand the power of this machine. I am not coming off like I do. However, please try to understand, I am a professional Graphic Designer and I do have a little bit of knowledge of 3d graphics.

From what I can see, the resolution is set for 720p or 1280x720. Which is ok, there is a ton of clean textures, volumetric smoke, particles, fast pace camera shakes and so on, toss in some clean models with almost no edgy or blocky look.

I myself at first I was not skeptical. Why? It has to do with the way Sony presented this. An announcer on stage , wow you with a ton of specs, talks of reality, LOD( level of detail ) or lots of ducks as he jokes, vortex simulations, particles then tells you the following.

The demo you are witnessing is not even using the mega monster GPU. He at the time was referring to a complex terrain. ( all done using the cells alone) Then shows another demo of explosion or simulation, showing volumetric smoke, real fire then proceeds to tell you, the “ Cell” calculates all of this in real time. Fine, let’s assume this is all true.

Fact: the ps3 can pump out HD rez graphics, fact it can do volumetric smokes, calculate motion blurs and can shit a TON of pixels in realtime.

My take on this is to compare some of the best games/videos they showed. One being Unreal 2007 (which looks sexy as hell) and is real time.

Video here : http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748505/vids_1.html

Some of the best realtime showcases are this as well as getaway,

the-getaway-3-20050516072434113[1].jpg



from what I can see, the gamer/graphic whore in me wants to believe that killzone is realtime.

This game : MotorStorm
motorstorm-20050516073449374.jpg



after reviewing video, and looking at some images, you can clearly tell is realtime, note low AA on models, yet blazing speed, smoke, dirt all add to belief of reality.

Is Killzone realtime ? I dunno for sure. Based on what I have seen from games that are realtime, If the ps3 can pull this wow…I am so sold !.

What is real, we are all here buzzing, chating about it. Sony has mindshare. Sony creates vision, promises or dreams. It blows away gamers with never before seen effects. This is part marketing to steal thunder from MS xbox 360.

The ps3 won’t be avail not for another 9 MONTHS!! They have plenty of time to tweak and at same time give u a sense of, there is something better coming, so don’t rush to buy an xbox 360. They tried the same tactics with dreamcast…..where is dreamcast now.


I have never heard of this killzone games engine prior to this show. I knew of unreal 3, which also is used on xbox360 as well as gears of war.

gears-of-war-20050517012709709[1].jpg



sexy realtime as well. View videos of xbox 360. http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747891/vids_1.html

if this is turns out to be realtime, the gaming experience indeed just went next gen.

I can stop staring at motorstorm fast, dirty http://ps3.ign.com/objects/748/748488.html

So please guys, give me some feedbacks, good or bad.
 
Untill I can see a playable demo I will assume it is pre rendered. Not saying its not real time now just want proof.
 
Originally Posted by Banko
According to Beyond3d:

About Killzone Demo - From John Davision blog - 1Up

Quote:
I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."

Here's the actual blog:

http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401
Click to expand...

Its real.
 
Hmmm... Tim Sweeney said it was prerendered, but it looked like it had been prerendered on a dev kit.

So nope, not real, but a fairly accurate representation nonetheless.

Sony has a bit of a tendency to overhype their hardware with screenshots that don't look like the finished product though, so I'm keeping that in mind. I don't know if MS has picked up their talent for overstatement, though we'll see tomorrow.
 
I think everyone is misunderstanding each other. The guys that worked on Killzone said nearly everything in the video was real. So the only thing I would assume would be fake is the exsplosion at the end where it blows everyone off the bridge. Tim Sweeney on the other hand said it was prerendered. I guess in a way they are both telling the truth. I believe that those video's are an accurate presentation like Kevin said.

Is it really that hard to believe that those are ingame when you compare them to some of the video's from the unreal 3 engine? The PS3 while it may be overhyped as far as performance goes is still an extremely powerfull console. Im sure the Cell was invovled in a lot of the effects shown on that screen. Face it having mounds of dirt fly up in your face is not too easy on the CPU, and im sure cell can handle it. Watching the press conference they show an entire scene rendered by cell in real time!!

I think the reason a couple of the people think it is prerendered is because of the first little bit of the clip feels liek your in a cutscene for a game, but infact you are in the cutscene through the eyes of the charachter in game. (very convincing IMO) Its like the silent cartographer level in Halo where you are in the dropship and you dont have controll of the master cheif, all you can do is look around.
 
Michael.R said:
I think everyone is misunderstanding each other. The guys that worked on Killzone said nearly everything in the video was real.
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Dude, words are the best thing to go by these days. I wanna see REAL GAMEPLAY before my very eyes and then I'll believe that it's real. Until then, CG!
 
six_storm said:
Dude, words are the best thing to go by these days. I wanna see REAL GAMEPLAY before my very eyes and then I'll believe that it's real. Until then, CG!
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How do you know that wasnt real gameplay? Just because there wasnt crosshairs and the video cut out at the end to an exsplosion doesnt mean it wasnt real gameplay.

I-8 is equally impressive on the PS3 and how come people arent asking questions about it?
928399_20050516_screen003.jpg
 
You call that equally impressive? Heh. Now THAT looks like real footage.
Though, IMO I think Resident Evil 4 for GC looks much better than that, minus the high rez textures.
 
Pre-rendered stuff like resident evil 2 or it can be cg. That can only be real after we hit 8ghz. :)

I bet it will look a lot different when everyone gets play it. Your lieing to yourself if you think thats ingame graphics. The only creditable thing i saw at their conference was the unreal engine and thats mostly it plus the duck thing but those backgrounds were pre-rendered like resident evil 2, even the ps1 can do that. Like the others said just have to wait until i see the real deal being played by a real human. :)
 
Maybe I'm just thinking too logically, but I can only say something is realtime when you can actually know someone is playing the game or if it's actual captures from the game console.

Usually I look for 'jerky movements' in the interface because to me that means someone is actually playing it. Also, I look for a HUD display or information on the screen like health, objectives and so on.

Most of the time you can just watch the movie and tell if its all rendered or not, it's pretty easy to tell. The only time I was surprised was when the stopped the Unreal Demo and started moving around in it.

From all the stuff I saw so far, there's only been a few actual in game movies. Most of these movies were at the end of the Sony conference.

I-8 looked like real gameplay.
Nothing in all the Killzone II stuff I saw was actual gameplay.
Gears of War, no gameplay yet
Some of the GT5 stuff in the Sony conference seemed to be real.
Getaway seemed real
Motor Storm, no gameplay.
PGR3 seemed to be real gameplay
Ghost Recon 3: No gameplay, but they did a very good job of hiding that
The Sony Unreal Demo: Real time, but it was still a demo with no actual gameplay, it was all scripted. It is a very good demo and shows that the PS3 is quite capable, the same goes for X360 with Gears of War...but it all changes when you add bots, other players, sounds, weapons, entire levels and so on. Things will probably change when they actuall make a game out of Unreal engine and not demos.



Either way, gameplay or not, this next generation of consoles looks like it's going to be fucking insane. I was in the boat of, 'yeah my PC will catch up in a year or so' but I'm not so sure of that anymore. It looks like Sony and MS pulled out all the stops.
 
Didn't mean to put you down. Just trying to be blunt. :) I talk to much a lot of the time.
 
Who do you believe...someone that puts their name on a statement (Unreal3 guy), or someone that says they ran into a 'friend' that said it was real?
The Unreal3 guy said that only the Unreal3 demo and Fightnight were using real-time...nothing else was.

Plus, the only 'source' to say it was real is the 1up guy's 'friend'. Everyone else is reporting it to be rendered.

But lets say monkeys just flew out of my rear and it is done in real-time...it is still Killzone, wich was horrible.
 
Tiny said:
Who do you believe...someone that puts their name on a statement (Unreal3 guy), or someone that says they ran into a 'friend' that said it was real?
The Unreal3 guy said that only the Unreal3 demo and Fightnight were using real-time...nothing else was.

Plus, the only 'source' to say it was real is the 1up guy's 'friend'. Everyone else is reporting it to be rendered.

But lets say monkeys just flew out of my rear and it is done in real-time...it is still Killzone, wich was horrible.
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How many times do we have to go over this, of course those are the real time ones since others were just videos, but those videos were real in game footage.
 
the problem is, when you render it as a video, you can add extra detail etc, and speed it up later to smooth it out, even if your system isn't capable of handling it.

Nobody trusts Sony because of what they did with the Tekken pre-rendered demo from the original PS2. The games STILL don't look as good as that on the PS2 5 years later.
 
i would say its recorded realtime. the graphics was developed on unfinished ps3 hardware and played up on unfinished ps3 hardware.

the only real realtime was the tech demos and the ut2007 demo.
 
Wait and see attitude is what I will do. Besides, I need to save up to get a nice HD monitor. All this HD talk, HDMI is serioulsy making my tv look lame.

I will prob wait till i can get a screen for around $2000-3000 that has great specs.
 
i believe it, for one reason.

They should Unreal 3 in real time, thats a given. Then we saw Gears of War. Same engine, much more going on. A scene with over 100 people running around? Did you guys not watch the Sony press con.? Even if Sony lies alot, its pretty obvious that "cell" is more than powerful enough to do it. And now its easy to program for? They threw the Unreal 3 engine into PS3 in less than 3 months?

Believe it. Theres no reason not to. They fixed the one problem that made PS2 never reach its full potential. Hardware Programming.

Its all OpenGL now. (finally!) You guys can thank Nvidia for that.

btw, did anyone else notice how Jen-Hseu Huang(sp?) seemed more excited than Ken Kutaragi or any of the other Sony guys? This is him getting back a MS for that lawsuit.

We gamers will benefit from this.
Finally, the PERFECT video game generation.
 
Did you forget that Sony reps claimed PS2 was capable of Toy Story graphics real-time? There's a lot of bullshit flying around these press confrences. I believe our skeptism is justified.
 
Real or not I think the ps3 is highly capable of doing it with its hardware. Shit thats probally how bluray games will be. screw dvd-rom
 
Pre Rendered

Just from the gameplay you can tell

Plus, I believe a Rep has said it himself
 
cypher22 said:
Real or not I think the ps3 is highly capable of doing it with its hardware. Shit thats probally how bluray games will be. screw dvd-rom
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thank you. my point exactly.
 
What? Blue-ray has nothing to do with what a system can process. We all have storage mediums that are larger than blue-ray discs in our computers (HDD), but do we see these visuals right now?
 
the gt game looks real, since u can notice the cutout ppl on the background...but it's obvioulsy the replay mode so it is in real time but not while ur driving
 
Kiggles said:
Did you forget that Sony reps claimed PS2 was capable of Toy Story graphics real-time? There's a lot of bullshit flying around these press confrences. I believe our skeptism is justified.
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Considering that the equivalent rival console (XBOX specifically) uses a GF3.5 and the PC version of it actually did a scene from FF:The Spirits Within in real time. That claim shouldn't have been too far from the truth :) If the graphics were capable of such a thing then, i guess the next gen would be able to live up to the promise as well.
 
The thing is, we never saw that quality of detail in-game. All the horse power in the world doesn't mean crap to the gaming industry if it is not playable.
 
wtf the ps3 has a nueterd version of the cell,its short one SPE and downclocked by 1.4ghz.The actually ps3 system its self isnt in working condition yet i might add. supposedly it 3 times the power of dual 6800ultras. the dev kits only have dual 6800ultras do you honestly expect this to be rendered in real time?do expect this to be a first generaion game?shit when did sony send out dev kits and this was in working condition already?what the fuck is wrong with you people. and unreal 3 demo ran on a 6800 of some varience(the demo)in the original video of it. and btw im talking about killzone. i was also going to say something else but it slipped my mind sorry
 
Ballz2TheWallz said:
wtf the ps3 has a nueterd version of the cell,its short one SPE and downclocked by 1.4ghz.The actually ps3 system its self isnt in working condition yet i might add. supposedly it 3 times the power of dual 6800ultras. the dev kits only have dual 6800ultras do you honestly expect this to be rendered in real time?do expect this to be a first generaion game?shit when did sony send out dev kits and this was in working condition already?what the fuck is wrong with you people. and unreal 3 demo ran on a 6800 of some varience(the demo)in the original video of it. and btw im talking about killzone. i was also going to say something else but it slipped my mind sorry
Click to expand...
Punctuation would be very nice, I have no idea what you just said.
 
Banko said:
Punctuation would be very nice, I have no idea what you just said.
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sad your mind stops functioning when punctuation isnt present oh well guess you cant read it ever then can you and i was going to say ps3 games still look jagged cause it has no implementation of AA
 
Kiggles said:
The thing is, we never saw that quality of detail in-game. All the horse power in the world doesn't mean crap to the gaming industry if it is not playable.
Click to expand...

Point taken. Lets hope they actually put it to good use this time around :)



@Ballz2TheWallz
You have a full keyboard and i assume you've taken english classes. It'll make it easier to get your point across if you make it easier to read. It's common courtesy on a forum where written words are an integral part of communication of ideas.

sad your mind stops functioning when punctuation isnt present oh well guess you cant read it ever then can you and i was going to say ps3 games still look jagged cause it has no implementation of AA
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Only thing i can think of that's worse than this is someone using 1337$P34l<
 
It could be the same situation as with MGS2, with the the cinematics having been generated with the in-game engine, but rendered up a bit. Kinda in-game, but not exactly.. ;)

I doubt it's going to look exactly like that, but after seeing what the Unreal tech demo achieved with only 2 mos. contact with a PS3 dev-kit, I don't think we'll be disappointed.
 
Ballz2TheWallz said:
wtf the ps3 has a nueterd version of the cell,its short one SPE and downclocked by 1.4ghz.The actually ps3 system its self isnt in working condition yet i might add. supposedly it 3 times the power of dual 6800ultras. the dev kits only have dual 6800ultras do you honestly expect this to be rendered in real time?do expect this to be a first generaion game?shit when did sony send out dev kits and this was in working condition already?what the fuck is wrong with you people. and unreal 3 demo ran on a 6800 of some varience(the demo)in the original video of it. and btw im talking about killzone. i was also going to say something else but it slipped my mind sorry
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They also said it was a pc port at the end of the demonstration. You won't see eye watering graphics until the pc gets it first because thats how the developers make better graphics for the consoles. If the pc doesn't have the power then you won't see the power since they can't generate it yet.
 
IMHO opinion prerenders. Sony is the master of little 'white' lies to get people all hyped. I remember the original specs about polygon counts and screens shots for PS2, and by the time the console came it, it wasn't even close, hell the dreamcast looked better and it came out a year before. We shall see. I'm eagerly awaiting UT2k7, cuz I know for a fact its gonna look that good :) It's amazing where gaming has gone in the last 20 years, from huge pixels to photorealism, we are definately in the 'golden age' of technology!
 
I'm sorry, but anyone who falls for this bullshit is a fool.

Sony pulled the wool over our eyes with the PS2 unveiling. I won't fall for the same hype-machine twice.
 
Conker said:
When will the lies end. They need to show us the real deal. :)
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There were no 'lies'. There was no comment either way as to the nature of the video. It's a case of rabid fans' (for and against) overhype and speculation.
 
Arkham said:
There were no 'lies'. There was no comment either way as to the nature of the video. It's a case of rabid fans' (for and against) overhype and speculation.
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They might not have outright lied (And I believe they did, but I don't have time to go back and watch the release) but they mislead a lot of people with their biased (And unrealistic) specs and pre-rendered videos.
 
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