Plan to wire entire house with ethernet - Few questions, mainly regarding the switch

Discussion in 'Networking & Security' started by Zef Pomp, Oct 6, 2014.

  1. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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    I plan to wire my entire house(at least 2 Ethernet jacks in each room) with Cat6A cable. I will have a total of 18 Ethernet drops planned right now. This is so I never need MoCA, among other things..

    I currently own:
    Modem: MOTOROLA SB6121
    Router: ASUS RT-AC66U - AC1750

    I plan to buy a 24 port network switch(I want a gigabit switch). I currently have this one picked out: NETGEAR ProSAFE JGS524E ....cant beat a lifetime warranty?

    If I understand it correctly I will have:
    ISP --> Modem --> Router (assigns IP addresses) --> Switch --> 18 drops

    So the questions:
    1) Is this the best way to setup a home network? Using a switch is the way to go?..ect.
    2) Do you have any suggestions on different switches?
    3) Do I need a managed switch?
    4) Does the router handle firewall/security?
    5) How exactly will having 18 Ethernet drops potentially hinder my internet? Does the switch split equally to what ports are being used, or use only what is being requested?
    6) I will be able to transfer at 1 gigabit speeds between each drop?

    7) Just asking, but is Cat7 or Cat7A even reasonable at this point in time?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  2. bds1904

    bds1904 Gawd

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    Unless you plan on running 10gbe, skip the cat6a. Cat6a isn't a real standard anyways. Cat5e is fine.

    You are correct with your setup, modem - router - switch is the right way to do it. All drops go to the switch.

    Neither the switch or the router decide what will get your Internet bandwidth, it will be split as evenly as possible among all the devices on the network on a first come first serve basis. If you set up qos on the router the router will prioritize traffic accordingly. If you have 50mbit Internet with 18 devices plugged in, all devices on but only 1 surfing, the one computer will see 50mbit. If you have two computers downloading a game each would download at 25mbit.

    As far as transfers go, a switch will enable you to transfer files between different ports at 1gbps. That means if you have a file transfer between port 2 and port 3 at 100MB/sec (1Gb) then a transfer between port 1 and port 4 will not be slowed down at all.

    No reason to go with a managed switch for you. No offense but if you are here asking these questions, you don't need a managed switch.
     
  3. goodcooper

    goodcooper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    cat5e is sufficient... cat6a will give you 10g out to 100m for the future... if i was in your position i probably would have just used a good quality non-cca cat5e.... unless it was for a video run or really long run...
    1) using a switch is pretty much the only way to go, so.... yea...
    2) for consumer grade stuff, and light duty business, most netgear models are fine
    3) depends on your uses, if you don't know if you need a managed switch, you probably don't need a managed switch
    4) yours does, yes
    5) well, having more places for the data to go i guess, your switch will not show an appreciable "split" of your internet bandwidth (most likely the switching fabric capacity of your switch is orders of magnitude faster than your internet connection).... it's just a matter of more competition for bandwidth between whatever devices are connected... the connection METHOD is a non-issue in your case
    6) yes
    7) no, and most professionals would argue for just computer networks in a house, 6a is unreasonable too...
     
  4. Valnar

    Valnar 2[H]4U

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    If I understand it correctly I will have:
    ISP --> Modem --> Router (assigns IP addresses) --> Switch --> 18 drops
    Yep

    So the questions:
    1) Is this the best way to setup a home network? Using a switch is the way to go?..ect.
    Correct
    2) Do you have any suggestions on different switches?
    That should be fine.
    3) Do I need a managed switch?
    If you have to ask, probably not, but I think that switch supports vlans and some other rudimentary settings.
    4) Does the router handle firewall/security?
    Now you're just playing with me right?
    5) How exactly will having 18 Ethernet drops potentially hinder my internet? Does the switch split equally to what ports are being used, or use only what is being requested?
    It will not hinder your Internet. It is not a "splitter" in the way you are thinking. Each port will use what is requested, up to 1GB each.
    6) I will be able to transfer at 1 gigabit speeds between each drop?
    Yes, between your workstations. Probably not to the Internet. lol

    7) Just asking, but is Cat7 or Cat7A even reasonable at this point in time?
    Nope, and CAT6a is overkill unless you need 10GB farther than 50 meters. Unless you buy patch panels and patch cables that are CAT6a too, it's pointless. CAT6 is fine.
     
  5. goodcooper

    goodcooper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    i would say 6a actually is a standard, it's specced for 10g out to 100meters, it's just cat6 that is in sort of a gray area spec wise...
     
  6. Kibagami

    Kibagami Limp Gawd

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    One thing about your Question #6:

    6) I will be able to transfer at 1 gigabit speeds between each drop?

    You will have connections autonegotiate and lock in at 1 GigE speeds between the drops and the switch. However, do not expect to actually transfer data at 1Gbps between workstations because it is doubtful the machines can feed that data rate, plus there is overhead taken up by the protocols used to interconnect the machines at each layer level. I would say you can expect to saturate and send data on consumer level network gear close to 60 to 70 percent of theoretical max of 1Gbps. This all depends on the speed of processors and storage devices at each drop (and who is sending to who on the network at any one time, ie a slow older machine with spinning disc HDs to a new top of the line 6 core Haswell E with SSDs in raid etc etc). Basically, you will be happy with GigE IMO.

    Just pay attention to your pinouts etc if you intend to terminate your own cables. There are tons of resources on the net for proper cabling.
     
  7. devman

    devman 2[H]4U

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  8. Red Squirrel

    Red Squirrel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Nothing wrong with doing cat6a, you have to buy cable reel and you have to run it anyway, so may as well use the highest rated cable you can buy for around the same price. Heck, I use cat6 for alarm points because I have it on hand. Why should I buy a different kind of wire if I don't have to. If you already have cat5e on hand, then use that, but if you have to buy a cable reel may as well buy cat6a. It's not like it's that much more expensive. Check out Monoprice.

    Don't forget a patch panel. Don't just do ends and plug straight into the switch, that's dirty. So you'll want a patch panel then patch cords to plug to the switch.

    I personally like keystone patch panels for home. It makes it easier to add stuff later and you can do phone, cable tv, etc... Since you're doing 16 runs all at once though, you may be better off getting a proper patch panel that you punch down to.
     
  9. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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    Thanks for all your responses.

    I was just going with Cat6A because there wasn't a major price difference between cat5e, cat6, and cat6a

    for the cat6a I was just going to use all patch cables from 50-100ft. Leave the standard connector on one end to plug into the switch then cut off the other end to the length needed and wire a keystone jack

    @ red squirrel, ill check out a patch panel, but it seems like it adds even more mess...need all those extra patch cables

    EDIT: maybe ill switch to just Cat 6, I see no reason to do cat5e since the price is very close
    EDIT2: price difference of ~$92 if I switch from cat6a to cat6
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  10. jrweis

    jrweis Gawd

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  11. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    Dont do that with stranded core premade cables
     
  12. dave99

    dave99 2[H]4U

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    I'd spend 40 bucks more and get an HP 1810g-24 over a netgear. Also lifetime warranty, but advanced exchange if you need it, and also gets you 2 SFP ports if you need them down the road.
     
  13. TCM2

    TCM2 Gawd

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    The thing with VLANs and stuff is that you might not need them now, but they open up possibilities that you weren't even aware of.

    Want to span a guest WLAN or have a guest bedroom you want connected? Interested in running a VM that shouldn't see your normal network? Don't trust your TV with unrestricted Internet access?

    All these things and more are solvable with a managed switch and a VLAN-capable router.

    I say spend the extra bucks and get at least VLAN capability.
     
  14. diizzy

    diizzy 2[H]4U

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    I would take the Zyxel GS1910-24 any day over the HP 1810, Zyxel offers 2 years warranty but administration and features are much better and it feels solid.

    If you aren't going for CAT7 cabling CAT6 will just be a waste and its much more stiff than CAT5e.

    Use _solid_ cores, not stranded and if you're going for CAT6 make sure outlets etc are CAT6 as CAT5e and CAT6+ have different thickness.

    The router will be fine, as for transferring 1Gbit will be the limit unless you do LACP/Link aggregation.
    //Danne
     
  15. apuppy0384

    apuppy0384 n00b

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    I would also recommend a patch panel, if the cable goes bad you may only need to replace the patch cables, which are more likely to get abused than what's in the wall, rather than re-run the entire length. You can always make/buy 1-3' patch cables depending on which route you go.
     
  16. Snufykat

    Snufykat [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sort of on the wall with the patch panel idea. It is a home install, it is going to get hooked up once and left alone. The installed cable either works or it doesn't, it is not like he plans to do any moving around of connections after install. Added price and parts list items without much, if any, benefit for this install plan.
     
  17. +Eric

    +Eric Limp Gawd

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    I would do cat5e and spend the money you save on a better switch and router. Really, the HP 1810 with it's lifetime warranty is a great switch. Then with a better router, in the future you can have a segregated guest network, both wired and wifi if you need it. I doubt your ASUS router can do that.

    I also recommend doing it right, buying a patch panel, and buying bulk cable. It's not much extra work.
     
  18. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Have one patch panel and switch per floor to cut down on disruption.
     
  19. Saturn_V

    Saturn_V [H]ard|Gawd

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    Related question, forgive the noobness. ISP/Modem/Router/switch is upstairs. I have five devices in my AV rack downstairs that need ethernet (AVR, Roku3, FireTV, BluRay, TiVo Roamio) Currently using a WD Powelrine AV 200Mbps ethernet adapter, I think it's averaging 25 Mbit/s per port.

    Instead of running five lines, can I run a single Ethernet line dowstairs to feed a *second 8-port gigabit switch* in the AV rack that feeds everything else?

    I know I won't get full gigabit speeds distributing through a second switch. But I just need faster than it is right now. The biggest load is transferring between 1080 MPEG-2 TS recordings between TiVos and it's almost a real-time transfer using powerline. (1hr program takes an hour to transfer)
     
  20. dave99

    dave99 2[H]4U

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    yes, that would probably work fine.
     
  21. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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    Based on what I am reading....

    STP, Solid Core

    Cat6A runs 10 Gigabit @ 600-750Mhz

    Cat6 runs 10 Gigabit @ 550Mhz (Monoprice, Firefold, ect all sell it)

    There is no reason for someone to run Cat6A unless you are laying major distance?
     
  22. bds1904

    bds1904 Gawd

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    No, do not use STP, use UTP. Improperly installed STP will cause more problems than it will fix.

    UTP Cat6 (if you insist on cat6), solid core, jack on one end patch panel on the other.

    Crimping ends to solid wire will not last, even with ends designed to be crimped to solid. Running stranded wire in a wall is just the wrong thing to do. Stranded is for patch cables, period.

    Do it right or don't do it. Not running a patch panel & jacks is a mistake that you will regret later.

    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10234&cs_id=1023401&p_id=8103&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10514&cs_id=1051401&p_id=7304&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10513&cs_id=1051309&p_id=5385&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10517&cs_id=1051705&p_id=7088&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10517&cs_id=1051705&p_id=7089&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10517&cs_id=1051703&p_id=6725&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10517&cs_id=1051703&p_id=6727&seq=1&format=2
    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10509&cs_id=1050903&p_id=7041&seq=1&format=2

    Everything you need, everything is rated for indoor use in walls and exposed. If running wire where there is air movement that transfers with a living space (like above a suspended ceiling) you are technically supposed to use plenum rated wire. I rarely see plenum run in those spaces and it always gets passed by inspectors.

    Run 2 runs to where you want a modem (of any kind, cable, dsl, etc. do not include these runs in the "office count"), 2 runs (i prefer 4, but many people see that as overkill) to the main TV, 2-4 runs to your office, 1 run to each other TV location/bedroom regardless if you "need it" (again, I prefer 2), 1 run to any other desired location, and an extra un-terminated run with ~20ft of extra to the attic for a future WAP.

    19 drops is pretty much standard for a house with 3 bedrooms, living room, family room and office. That's my standard install in a house less than 2500sq ft. More than 2500sq ft and I usually end up with 23-27 drops & 2-4 WAP's depending on layout of the house and if the person wants TV/WIFI in a detached garage. Top of the line 3500+ sq ft house usually has 35-45 drops (think cameras, etc), 4 WAP's and a 24u enclosed rack.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  23. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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  24. devman

    devman 2[H]4U

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  25. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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  26. Red Squirrel

    Red Squirrel [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Shielded can be a pain to work with. If you really want to use it just make sure to read up on proper grounding and termination.
     
  27. +Eric

    +Eric Limp Gawd

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    I would never use STP unless it was actually needed, because what do you expect to gain from the extra hassle? Relief from some imagined problem because of interference?

    Not to mention it has to be done properly.
     
  28. bds1904

    bds1904 Gawd

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    The trick with shielded is what is on both ends. Both the switch and the device have to have provisions for stp. There isn't a stb, game console or other consumer device that properly grounds stp.

    Stp isn't ever grounded at the patch panel, it is grounded through the switch and the device. Having a switch that grounds the shield and not having a device that also grounds it creates an antenna. Even just having the foil there without proper termination actually causes induction.

    Using stp when you don't explicitly need it creates problems.

    That's not even going into how using stp & the associated stp compatable devices on improperly wired outlets or outlets on a subpanel can actually cause ground loops, melting wire in your walls. Fire bad, fire bad!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  29. dave99

    dave99 2[H]4U

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    no..just no. You are way over thinking this.
     
  30. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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    Ok based on everyone's help I am going with the following:

    1000FT Cat6 UTP Solid - Is it ok to use patch Cat6 cable if I need another 1-200FT? I do NOT want to buy another 1000FT..

    24 Port Cat6A Patch Panel - I went with this one because Monoprice's Cat6 version is only rated at 1 gigabit for some reason, and its only a $6 difference in price. The enclosure of this will make a nice clean look also.

    HP 1810-24G v2 Switch

    I am also going with Cat6A keystone jacks. All Cat6 jacks only seem to be rated for 1 gigabit for some reason. If I am laying cable that's rated for 10 gigabit, I sure as hell want to be able to go past 1 gigabit if the need arises in the future.
     
  31. goodcooper

    goodcooper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    if it's rated for 6, you're fine.... 6a is going to have shielding and stuff in them...

    also, those half U patch panels are SUPER annoying, i have one in a location and vowed never again...
     
  32. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Networking these days is amazingly easy and resilient. I've come across a number of networks still using the same Cat5 that has been in place for 15+ years, where communication from one side of their spider-web style rats-nest of a network to the other might have to travel through a half dozen individual <$50 5-8 port switches of various brands. Yet in almost all these cases, 70%+ gigabit utilization is still possible across the network :confused:
     
  33. m1abram

    m1abram 2[H]4U

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    Don't mix CAT6A gear with CAT6 wire it wont crimp properly.

    If you are pulling wire and most of your locations you are pulling 2 wires I highly recommend buying 2 boxes so you can pull 2 wires at once. It will make life so much easier and really the cost of the wire is so cheap compared to everything else.

    Patch wire is usually stranded and in wall wire is solid. The patch panels and jacks are normally sized for solid which is why everyone says not to just cut stranded wire and jam it into a patch panel, it is not right.
     
  34. FndTheRver

    FndTheRver Gawd

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    If you're already dropping one cable, what's the difference in dropping more? IMHO the workload is almost the same unless you're really slow at putting the caps on the end of the cables.
     
  35. Zef Pomp

    Zef Pomp 2[H]4U

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  36. diizzy

    diizzy 2[H]4U

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