PHENOM II Reviews

i gotta say, that hexus review paints the Phenom 2 in a much better light than i otherwise thought....

bang/$ still goes to intel, but the performance of the processors seems close, relatively...
 
From what I've seen so far from Phenom II, it's a step in the right direction. Based on the links above, Phenom II is good enough for high end gaming. Ulitmately that's all that matters to me. :D

I've held out from switching to intel simply because it's a cheaper option. I will upgrade to a 940 as soon as it's available. A $300 CPU is cheaper than upgrading to Core i7 ($750 for CPU/RAM/MOBO).
 
So, it's nothing special: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTYwNywxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Pretty much what I expected. It still lags well behind Yorkfield clock for clock. It may be cheaper, but seriously. AMD needs to do better than this.

yeowch, the [H] review really shows Phenom 2 to be a turd..... from the earlier review i thought it would match the Core 2 (finally).... guess i was wrong....

so phenom 2 = fail, straight from the [H] guys themselves

*by the way, i *love* the new review style you guys used to evaluate this new CPU... i predict there will be much agreement with this sentiment throughout the [H] forums as well....
 
What suprises me most is the gaming number, they are not consistent with this benchmark here:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU4MCwyLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

I can't help but feel Kyle has a bone to pick with the Phenom II. The languages used in the review is extremely negative. I've gleamed the following from various conclusion sections:

HardOCP said:
The Phenom II is a loser. Does that mean it is without value? Absolutely not. But I think those that will find value in it will be few and far between and even fewer of those folks will be computer hardware enthusiasts.

Tom's Hardware said:
As a result of its exceptional energy efficiency advances and an affordable price/performance ratio, AMD Phenom II X4 deserves our seldom-granted Recommended Buy award.

Anandtech said:
Phenom II is AMD's return to competition, and unlike the best the original could do, the sequel is actually worthwhile.

Tech Report said:
Considering that the Core 2 Quad Q9400 was the featured processor in the "Sweeter spot" build in our latest system guide, the Phenom II puts AMD back in the running right in the middle of the enthusiast PC market, where price and performance converge in solid value.

bit-tech said:
While not the best performer we've ever seen, AMD has finally got a solid competitor it can sell on an inexpensive platform - this should readdress the balance quite nicely in the market.

Guru 3D said:
AMD is getting back in the saddle, and we can't wait to see what 2009 will bring them, and us. Good stuff, very stable, nice , affordable and fast. What's not to like?

Tweak Town said:
While not quite up to the task of taking on Core 2 Extreme in raw performance, its associated price tag makes it a fairly attractive option for the performance it offers.

Hardware Canucks said:
If you are new to overclocking, the Phenom II should be an easy starting point. If you are an experienced overclocker, you'll be running 3.6GHz in a matter of minutes. If you are an extreme benchmarker, the Phenom II brings previously unknown possibilities to the AMD platform with sub-zero cooling.

HEXUS said:
The boost in clock-speed, to 3GHz, is enough to make AMD's Phenom II 940 competitive in the sub-£250 market and whilst it's absolutely no Core i7-killer, performance is such that Intel will need to look again at the pricing of its mid-range Core 2 Quad parts, and that can only be a good thing.
 
as far as i can tell, it'll provide a decent alternative to the upper-midrange intel LGAs. finally, AMD caught up to the Q6600.
 
Anandtech said:
I've heard, through reliable but very quiet channels, that before the end of January Intel will aggressively cut prices on its entire quad-core lineup. Given how Intel historically cuts prices, we could expect the Core 2 Quad Q9550 would take the place of the Q9400 and have the Q9400 move down to the price point of the Q8300, thus creating a price war; and you thought 2008 was the last of that.

It would be about time for Intel to finally bring their 45 nm line down to reasonable price levels.
I hope they're right, because I have a nice E6600 system here which will gladly take a mega-cheap Q9650. If that happens, I owe AMD and its Phenom II a big thanks :)
 
Current prices of Intel Quads versus the estimated $235 - $300 price of the Phenom 2 920 and 940 respectively.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115044
QX9775 at $1,550, extreme model (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $235 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115051
QX9770 at $1,400, extreme model (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $235 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115034
QX9650 at $1,030, extreme model (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $235 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115200
i7 965 Extreme Edition at $1,013 (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $235 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115201
i7 940 at $565 (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $235 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115130
Q9650 at $550 (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $275 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

Reviews should start comparisons with the Phenom 2's and 1's here below, that would make sense because those that buy PH2's and PH1's instead of the 6 high priced Intel models listed above will be laughing all the way to the bank and for some good amount of time afterward as they enjoy themselves gaming and browsing and working etc. on their nice AM2+ and AM3 systems.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
Q9550 at $315

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
i7 920 at $295

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115131
Q9400 at $270

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115043
Q9300 at $250

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115207
Q8300 at $230

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115055
Q8200 at $190

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
Q6600 at $190

The PH1's and PH2's compare favorably to the Intel CPU's in the same general price range.

Please make comparisons betwee CPU's in the same general price range to present a decent review, and only include one of the higher priced high end Intel CPU's to show that Intel has the best CPU's now available but at a significant price in $$$, and most people, the very vast majority of people are concerned about $$$. :p:D
 
AMD Phenom II 940 clocked to 3.2GHz; MSI DKA790GX Platinum; 2GB Corsair DDR2-8888; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 clocked to 3.2GHz; ASUS Ramapage Extreme; 4GB Corsair DDR3-1600; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

Intel Core i7 965 clocked to 3.2GHz; ASUS P6T6; 6GB Corsair DDR3-1600; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

Why do the 2 intel systems have more ram than the amd one?

Maybe if it was a level playing field (like in some other reviews) the phenom 2 may perform better!

I am not an amd or intel fanboy, however at least test chips with the same amount of ram!
 
Current prices of Intel Quads versus the estimated $235 - $300 price of the Phenom 2 920 and 940 respectively.

QX9775 at $1,550, extreme model (doesn't make any sense to compare this to a $235 - $300 Phenom 2 does it now)

Reviews should start comparisons with the Phenom 2's and 1's here below, that would make sense because those that buy PH2's and PH1's instead of the 7 high priced Intel models listed above will be laughing all the way to the bank and for some good amount of time afterward as they enjoy themselves gaming and browsing and working etc. on their nice AM2+ and AM3 systems.

The PH1's and PH2's compare favorably to the Intel CPU's in the same general price range.

Please make comparisons betwee CPU's in the same general price range to present a decent review, and only include one of the higher priced high end Intel CPU's to show that Intel has the best CPU's now available but at a significant price in $$$, and most people, the very vast majority of people are concerned about $$$. :p:D

The HardOCP review, which is presumably what you're referring to based on your comments about the CPU price, was a clock for clock comparison. The QX9770 was used because it already ran at 3.2GHz. Had Kyle used a Q9550 overclocked to 3.2GHz, the results would have been identical.
 
Yes, and the price was not considered. Clock for clock means not anyhting since Intel does indeed have the more advanced silicon with metal gateways etc. than AMD ATM, however these Intel CPU's are very ridiculously expensive and actually their higher performance is both a boon and perhaps a hinderance as perhaps screens switch between screens in daily use maybe a bit too fast, although the performance in running video and photo editing and other varied programs including business programs is a very good characteristic, although in gaming the difference in the high framerates of both the AMD and Intel CPU's is unnoticeable to the human eye.

So, it is already a well known fact that the higher end Intels are untouchable and also are EXPENSIVE, and most people do not desire such a CPU at such a high cost and are satisfied with the good performance of the lower priced Intel and AMD CPU's. The Q9550 OC'd to 3.2GHz may not perform as well as the QX9770m running at its native speed of 3.2GHz and the results would not have been identical, although the reaults would be probably somewhat close give or take a little. This brings up the additional point that most people do not OC, and especially at work places where they are using company computers and the companies usually buy computers that give the best performance per dollar according to their exact needs.
 
I like AMD, but I found the results of the reviews quite lacking and disappointing to be honest. Hopefully when the AM3 version arrives with DDR3 support, performance will go higher. But still, I'm glad that AMD is trying their best.
 
@lt_shiro

Thanx, I didn't even notice the PH2 was run with only 2GB of DDR2 RAM compared to the 4 and 6GB of DDR3 that the Intel systems had. You have made a good point. I wonder what the PH2's wil run at with 4 or 8GB's of DDR3?? Maybe 5 to 7 or so % faster and generally more efficient??

I think the lower to mid range AMD and Intel CPU's are the best sellers and bring in the $$ for the 2 companies, and these lower to mid range CPU's do fine in gaming and at most other tasks.

PS: I am posting this from my Intel 945Gcz BTX mobo with a P4 571 3.8GHz stock CPU (it runs pretty good still) with no OCing of course due to the Intel mobo because I haven't got my new Phenom X2 7750 with Asrock 790G system up and running yet. I use and have used and will continue to use both AMD and Intel CPU's and hope AMD is still around in years to come because they have and do offer very decently priced and decent performing products. Same for NVIDIA and ATI. Competition is necessary to keep prices reasonable.
 
I like AMD, but I found the results of the reviews quite lacking and disappointing to be honest. Hopefully when the AM3 version arrives with DDR3 support, performance will go higher. But still, I'm glad that AMD is trying their best.

well it's not like AMD was trying to be second best intentionally... i'm sure they don't want to lose a billion dollars a quarter...
 
To be honest, I wonder if DDR3 has any effect at all. It never did anything for Core2 performance either. I guess the main advantages to DDR3 are lower voltage, resulting in lower power consumption, and better stability at high clockspeeds. At the same time, latencies often get higher (not a problem for Intel's cache technology, but I'm not too sure about AMD).

I don't think Phenom II is limited by the memory bandwidth. The original Phenom wasn't, it was the cache that limited it. Phenom II has faster and bigger cache, but it's not a dramatic improvement really. Aside from that, the fact that the cache is larger actually makes the memory bandwidth less of an issue.
 
AMD Phenom II 940 clocked to 3.2GHz; MSI DKA790GX Platinum; 2GB Corsair DDR2-8888; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 clocked to 3.2GHz; ASUS Ramapage Extreme; 4GB Corsair DDR3-1600; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

Intel Core i7 965 clocked to 3.2GHz; ASUS P6T6; 6GB Corsair DDR3-1600; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

Why do the 2 intel systems have more ram than the amd one?

Maybe if it was a level playing field (like in some other reviews) the phenom 2 may perform better!

I am not an amd or intel fanboy, however at least test chips with the same amount of ram!

Those 2 gigs were also set to 800 Mhz. Wonder what kind of a difference that makes. And why those 4 and 6 gigs could not be reduced by simply pulling out some sticks is beyond me.
 
Ha ha ha ha, told ya so! On average Deneb lags Yorkfield processors which are running a couple hundred MHz slower. Worse, this seems to be yet another paper launch.

I'm going to make some whine out of the sour grapes in this thread. :D Then I'm going to check out the meltdown at fantasyzone for some laughs. :D
 
To be honest, I wonder if DDR3 has any effect at all. It never did anything for Core2 performance either. I guess the main advantages to DDR3 are lower voltage, resulting in lower power consumption, and better stability at high clockspeeds. At the same time, latencies often get higher (not a problem for Intel's cache technology, but I'm not too sure about AMD).

I don't think Phenom II is limited by the memory bandwidth. The original Phenom wasn't, it was the cache that limited it. Phenom II has faster and bigger cache, but it's not a dramatic improvement really. Aside from that, the fact that the cache is larger actually makes the memory bandwidth less of an issue.


w/ ddr3 it would be similarly compared with the i7... primarily because of the IMC unlike the core 2 so the results could swing in favor of the phenom II.. but we will have to see in the long run if it does make a difference...


btw i agree with the whole 2gb 4gb 6gb thing.. i understand the reason for the i7 running 6 since thats the minimum it can run.. but i mean come on w/ the comparison between the c2q and phenom II.. unless there was some bug with the motherboard bios and it not allowing to run 4gigs with it overclocked or something atleast give a reason for it being different.. its just a quality control aspect of the review in my opinion..

ill still end up buying a 920 just so i can blow up my biostar motherboard that says it can only support a 75w processor even though im running a my x2 be-2350 at 105w TDP w/ the current overclock i have..
 
w/ ddr3 it would be similarly compared with the i7... primarily because of the IMC unlike the core 2 so the results could swing in favor of the phenom II.. but we will have to see in the long run if it does make a difference...

Except that Core i7 has triple channel DDR3, and Phenom II only has dual channel... aside from the fact that Intel's caches and memory controllers are also more efficient than AMD's.
I think Intel has more than proven that their Core2 memory interface can compete with AMD's IMC anyway. The fact that the aging Yorkfield still has the better IPC is yet more testament to that.
AMD now has more or less the same amount of cache as the Q9400, yet it is struggling to outperform it, despite being a 'native quadcore' and having an 'IMC'.

btw i agree with the whole 2gb 4gb 6gb thing.. i understand the reason for the i7 running 6 since thats the minimum it can run..

Actually, it isn't. You can run the i7 with 2x2 GB in dualchannel mode if you want (or even 2x1 GB). It just wouldn't be realistic as most people would probably spend the few extra bucks to get 3x6 GB.

But I do agree that they could have used the same amount of memory on all systems... they could have run with 2x2 + 2x1 GB on the dualchannel systems. My Core2 runs with 6 GB in dualchannel aswell, in that configuration (with the simple and now ancient P965 chipset). I assume the Phenom II is capable of this aswell.
 
When I was upgrading my PC, store only had 2 x 1 Gigs and Far cry 2 was getting only at max 40 fps. Now that I have 4 Gigs its now getting 45 fps. With only 2 Gigs those gaming numbers will be off.

Also Cost of ownership of Core i7 is near 50% more, than that of a Phenom 2. Motherboards still cost $100 more, Ram is $75 higher also,
 
Preety review of Phenom II http://www.egielda.com.pl/?str=art&id=4722-all

In games nothing special :rolleyes:

c15250d117258727ee239914fa5b4007.png


84379cfd4f02c33e29090ddec79ccfdb.png


c413b9aabe437f0e80827a144ba8e463.png


770bb09f1eb94182095063e494500205.png
 
paper launch? funny I have one on the way from a well known online retailer.
 
the phenom II reminds of ATI's 3870 come back! And I'm happy they finally did it.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=16757&page=9

Kyle, NONE of your numbers match the four reviews I've read, and at this point I can't even see your reviews as being worthy to read. did you seriously have to kill the phenom ii? Was there any reason? we know you just love core i7, but god, that is such a bias if I have ever seen one.
I'm just about done with HardOCP reviews. I hated biased opinions.

EDIT: And you put 4 FUCKING GIGS OF RAM in the Core 2 Quad System?! Are you nuts dude? everyone knows going form 2 gigs to 4 gigs is a major improvment in video and multi tasking work. for gods sake, we can't even tell if youre "overclock" was even stable!
 
Yes, and the price was not considered. Clock for clock means not anyhting since Intel does indeed have the more advanced silicon with metal gateways etc. than AMD ATM, however these Intel CPU's are very ridiculously expensive and actually their higher performance is both a boon and perhaps a hinderance as perhaps screens switch between screens in daily use maybe a bit too fast, although the performance in running video and photo editing and other varied programs including business programs is a very good characteristic, although in gaming the difference in the high framerates of both the AMD and Intel CPU's is unnoticeable to the human eye.

So, it is already a well known fact that the higher end Intels are untouchable and also are EXPENSIVE, and most people do not desire such a CPU at such a high cost and are satisfied with the good performance of the lower priced Intel and AMD CPU's. The Q9550 OC'd to 3.2GHz may not perform as well as the QX9770m running at its native speed of 3.2GHz and the results would not have been identical, although the reaults would be probably somewhat close give or take a little. This brings up the additional point that most people do not OC, and especially at work places where they are using company computers and the companies usually buy computers that give the best performance per dollar according to their exact needs.
Your post is filled with so many logical fallacies that I don't know where to start. Your understanding of the situation is so basic that I'm not even sure if it's worth taking the time to respond to your comments, but I'll try anyway in the hopes that I can explain things to you.

First of all, your price comments are completely inaccurate. Intel's Q9400 is currently cheaper than the Phenom II 940, and yet is faster clock for clock and overclocks just as well if not better. You don't need a super-expensive Intel chip to get something that will outperform Phenom II. As for Intel's supposedly more advanced silicon, that has absolutely nothing to do with Intel's performance per clock advantage. That is purely a result of the architecture itself. Considering that Core 2 Quad and Phenom II are designed to run at similar clock speeds, it makes a lot of sense to compare them clock for clock since that provides an indication of how fast they really are compared to each other.

however these Intel CPU's are very ridiculously expensive and actually their higher performance is both a boon and perhaps a hinderance as perhaps screens switch between screens in daily use maybe a bit too fast
That statement is just outright silly. Screens switch between screens in daily use maybe a bit too fast? Those are quite literally your exact words, and yet that statement makes no sense at all. You won't notice applications switching faster between Intel and AMD CPUs, but what you will notice is applications running faster, and that is never, and I emphasize never, a bad thing.
in gaming the difference in the high framerates of both the AMD and Intel CPU's is unnoticeable to the human eye.
It's true that in gaming, clock speed makes very little difference. That's why people don't pay a whole lot of attention to gaming performance when it comes to CPUs and instead look at other tests that will actually benefit from a faster chip. In those cases, Intel's current batch of CPUs is the clear winner.
The Q9550 OC'd to 3.2GHz may not perform as well as the QX9770m running at its native speed of 3.2GHz and the results would not have been identical, although the reaults would be probably somewhat close give or take a little.
Actually, the results would have been identical. The only differences between the Q9550 and QX9770 are the higher stock clock speed and FSB of the 9770, and the fact that its multiplier is unlocked. The architectures are identical, and so is the clock for clock performance of each of the CPUs.
This brings up the additional point that most people do not OC, and especially at work places where they are using company computers and the companies usually buy computers that give the best performance per dollar according to their exact needs.
This is an enthusiast site, and most people here DO overclock. These benchmarks were done to show pure performance, and what an enthusiast would see from one of these CPUs. The tests clearly showed that Phenom II is not as fast as Core 2 clock for clock, which means that as an enthusiast chip, Phenom II is still inferior.
w/ ddr3 it would be similarly compared with the i7... primarily because of the IMC unlike the core 2 so the results could swing in favor of the phenom II.. but we will have to see in the long run if it does make a difference...
Even with DDR2, the Phenom chips have significantly more memory bandwidth and less latency compared to the Core 2 CPUs, yet are still unable to perform as well. I doubt adding more bandwidth would help, since that is not a bottleneck for the CPUs.
 
paper launch? funny I have one on the way from a well known online retailer.
Easy to post that hours later. :p I couldn't find it on newegg when I posted early this morning. Good, it's not a paper launch.
 
btw i agree with the whole 2gb 4gb 6gb thing.. i understand the reason for the i7 running 6 since thats the minimum it can run.. but i mean come on w/ the comparison between the c2q and phenom II.. unless there was some bug with the motherboard bios and it not allowing to run 4gigs with it overclocked or something atleast give a reason for it being different.. its just a quality control aspect of the review in my opinion..

Kyle posted somewhere in the review article's thread that the 2GB is not really something to harp on. If the benchmarks were hitting the 2GB wall you would have seen SUBSTANTIALLY worse numbers due to virtual memory thrashing. I don't see any benches that were system RAM bound in that suite. I remember an article awhile back on Vista's memory scaling, I think it was on Anandtech, but WIC was one of the few games out there to actually push the system past 2GB and that wasn't even part of the testing here. In general I've always had the experience that adding more RAM or DIMMs decreased performance ever so slightly in non-memory bound situations.

Sure, most enthusiasts would be running 4GB+ setups, but that would be more useful to other applications outside the scope of [H]'s benchmarks. I can't be alone in closing almost all other running processes and extra crap in my OS before I launch a game...how often would you realistically go over 2GB when gaming? The other benches are also well within the 2GB threshold so that whole issue is moot for the purposes of that article.

The only real issue I see with the RAM is that the AMD platform was running at a paltry DDR2-800 setting. I'm kind of intrigued why he couldn't get it stable at 1066, bad IMC/CPU? The added bandwidth would have surely given better results. Anyway Kyle's thoughts are obviously clearly stated and probably wouldn't have swayed at all even if it was running at 1066. I have to say I agree, I was really hoping it would be competitive with the Core2 line and maybe even a bit better. If we have to wait until AM3 for that, well that's probably too late to get my attention. If I want a CPU right now in my price range it'd be dumb to not get a Core2Q, if I want to wait a bit the i5 will be out soon enough, and if I really want to stretch it I could simply wait for the i7 refresh at the beginning of '10 and see where prices are then. I'll be coming from a 939 platform that blew me away when I got it in terms of features and performance and I want the next CPU upgrade to knock my socks off too, looks like AMD won't be able to do that until 2010/11.
 
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