People Unimpressed With Tech Progress

[Powerage]

Off topic or not, I'm just pointing out that the act of "taxation" is the act of theft. Now some people on this thread would like to distract you from this fact by bringing up roads, schools, etc. Stay focused on how this money is collected (i.e. theft at gunpoint), and not how it's spent. If those "Government" services you hold so dearly are that important to you, then pick up a machine gun and go door to door stealing the money from your neighbors yourself.

I'm so tired of this stupid word association shit conservatives use. "Does someone use your money for something? You're okay with that, huh? Hmm.. what if I told you THEY WERE STEALING. THAT'S RIGHT, STEALING."

Calling it something different doesn't change anything about what they do. Want to call it rape? The government taxing me means they've raped me. Okay, fine. I get raped by the government annually. Really don't care.

 

[Bladestorm]

I'm so tired of this stupid word association shit conservatives use. "Does someone use your money for something? You're okay with that, huh? Hmm.. what if I told you THEY WERE STEALING. THAT'S RIGHT, STEALING."

Calling it something different doesn't change anything about what they do. Want to call it rape? The government taxing me means they've raped me. Okay, fine. I get raped by the government annually. Really don't care.

So you condone theft?

 

[Azhar]

So you condone theft?

It's not theft. You live in a country, you have to chip in to help pay for things. Money doesn't grow on trees.

You're free to leave the country if you don't agree with it, so it's not theft.

You might as well call paying bills theft.

 

[Bladestorm]

It's not theft.

Stop deluding yourself.

You live in a country, you have to chip in to help pay for things. Money doesn't grow on trees.

You're free to leave the country if you don't agree with it, so it's not theft.

You might as well call paying bills theft.

Factually what is a "Country"?

 

[Azhar]

Stop deluding yourself.




Factually what is a "Country"?

I'm not deluding myself. Staying on topic with tax in mind, what's one of the largest government agency that make use of our taxes?

The military, right?

Doesn't our military have the fastest growing technological growth than anywhere in the world? Sure, it's for wars and all, but it helps the private sectors too. Planes, boats, radars, satellites..

With that in mind, I'm happy to pay my taxes, seeing how the private sector is too happy bickering over patent laws and lawsuits and holding back innovation for the stake of milking us for profit.

Like it or not, taxes is what make our country grow. It may not always be a positive thing, but you're welcome to live in an African country where people pay taxes in sheep and pigs. We've seen how far their countries have gotten.

 

[Bladestorm]

I'm not deluding myself. Staying on topic with tax in mind, what's one of the largest government agency that make use of our taxes?

The military, right?

Doesn't our military have the fastest growing technological growth than anywhere in the world? Sure, it's for wars and all, but it helps the private sectors too. Planes, boats, radars, satellites..

With that in mind, I'm happy to pay my taxes, seeing how the private sector is too happy bickering over patent laws and lawsuits and holding back innovation for the stake of milking us for profit.

Like it or not, taxes is what make our country grow. It may not always be a positive thing, but you're welcome to live in an African country where people pay taxes in sheep and pigs. We've seen how far their countries have gotten.

You didn't answer my question. Factually what is a "Country"?

 

[DNAphreaker]

I'm pretty unimpressed myself, which is concurrently not a surprise given that our economic system thrives on profit, whether or not completely or tenuously tied to innovation. Still using internal combustion/fossil fuels as a crutch for nearly a century now (fossil fuels ever longer)? Fucking pathetic, but no surprise that profit and not general, global human welfare is what primarily drives us as a country, let alone species. Free market is a wonderful concept for developing nations, but we are far past that...

 

[Azhar]

You didn't answer my question. Factually what is a "Country"?

I don't know why this have any relevance to my view on taxes and innovation. Every country is different, and thus the definition of country is different for each.

A collection of states. A collection of provinces. A collection of cultures. Of religion. Of people.

The one thing every country have in common is they have a central government that rules them, or enforces what people demand in a democracy.

But every country has to have some form of contribution to keep them running. Taxes is the most popular choice. Is it coincidence that most of the reasonably taxed country have all of the better stuff and technology? England, France and most of the rest of Europe, the United States, Southeast Asia, Japan, and so on?

 

[BillR]

I'm pretty unimpressed myself, which is concurrently not a surprise given that our economic system thrives on profit, whether or not completely or tenuously tied to innovation. Still using internal combustion/fossil fuels as a crutch for nearly a century now (fossil fuels ever longer)? Fucking pathetic, but no surprise that profit and not general, global human welfare is what primarily drives us as a country, let alone species. Free market is a wonderful concept for developing nations, but we are far past that...

We are far past that into what exactly?

 

[michael.pa2]

Just by reading all the posts here, Its obvious that even those with some idea on technology have a longass way to go before true progress can be reached.

Look at the bickering and hatred between fellow scientists, man, woman etc. The mentaity I'm seeing is, no matter what, my idea is best and you suck wah wah wah. You can have the smartest people in the world in one room and they'll still be unable to solve anything because of this weakness.

This is so true. Ego has probably held back progress more than we realize.You'd think scientists of all people would be more open minded. I also think the word "impossible" shouldn't exist in a true scientist's vocabulary.

 

[BillR]

This is so true. Ego has probably held back progress more than we realize.You'd think scientists of all people would be more open minded. I also think the word "impossible" shouldn't exist in a true scientist's vocabulary.

You hit the bulls eye with ego for sure.

The other problem is science, all science costs big money. Nobody, not individuals, not corporations and most certainly not government will finance any science unless the end results fit the agenda and fills the needs of the people doing the financing.

 

[GenesisFactor]

what is really sad is how much of the "future" tech actually already exists and we are barred from seeig or using it due to people with selfish intentions.

flying cars have existed for years, just as alt fuel sources, and wicked Halo styled armor. Laser rifles too.

Honestly. if not for the Red Fear, we'd probably yet to have bothered put a man on the moon by now...

You know...if we could only just get the terrorist to mount attacks from Mars, we'd be there with a massive military presence in a week. Instead, they are giving the lowest bidder the ability to see through clothing and zapping us with radiation just to get more radiation when we fly. Joyful what fear will make people do...

 

[BillR]

what is really sad is how much of the "future" tech actually already exists and we are barred from seeig or using it due to people with selfish intentions.

flying cars have existed for years, just as alt fuel sources, and wicked Halo styled armor. Laser rifles too.

Honestly. if not for the Red Fear, we'd probably yet to have bothered put a man on the moon by now...

You know...if we could only just get the terrorist to mount attacks from Mars, we'd be there with a massive military presence in a week. Instead, they are giving the lowest bidder the ability to see through clothing and zapping us with radiation just to get more radiation when we fly. Joyful what fear will make people do...

All true enough, but, face it, the fear itself is not totally unfounded.

 

[Powerage]

You hit the bulls eye with ego for sure.

The other problem is science, all science costs big money. Nobody, not individuals, not corporations and most certainly not government will finance any science unless the end results fit the agenda and fills the needs of the people doing the financing.

dingdingding You win the prize... of... a smile:

Ironically though, these corporations/people/government could actually make use of (benefit from) a lot of technology they aren't initial proponents of. I doubt the first person to discover a magnet was like "Holy shit, I could totally use this in a particle accelerator."

 

[BillR]

dingdingding You win the prize... of... a smile:

Ironically though, these corporations/people/government could actually make use of (benefit from) a lot of technology they aren't initial proponents of. I doubt the first person to discover a magnet was like "Holy shit, I could totally use this in a particle accelerator."

I believe it was In 1820 Hans Christian Oersted discovered the electromagnet and I'm pretty sure he had an immediate vision of CERN.

Now if we could just channel that energy (pun indented) into some sort of new fuel or power source his life would have real meaning. Instead it seems it's far more important to find the original particle than it is to find a way I can afford to heat my house and have lights without paying out half of my very limited income.

But hey, that's just me right? You too earn a smile

 

[GoHack]

I'm not deluding myself. Staying on topic with tax in mind, what's one of the largest government agency that make use of our taxes?

The military, right?

Doesn't our military have the fastest growing technological growth than anywhere in the world? Sure, it's for wars and all, but it helps the private sectors too. Planes, boats, radars, satellites..

With that in mind, I'm happy to pay my taxes, seeing how the private sector is too happy bickering over patent laws and lawsuits and holding back innovation for the stake of milking us for profit.

Like it or not, taxes is what make our country grow. It may not always be a positive thing, but you're welcome to live in an African country where people pay taxes in sheep and pigs. We've seen how far their countries have gotten.

It's one thing to tax people in order to run a basic government, according to the constitution, but it's quite another, to expect people to pay for what is a totally mismanaged bureaucracratic mess, run by irresponsible and utterly corrupt morons (lawyers).

As I said before, we have an infrastructure falling apart, and most importantly, a public school system that's become nothing more than a day care center.

People don't seem to understand that w/o education, we, the United States, aren't going anywhere, and are doomed BIG TIME.

I'm an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I happened to be talking to a fellow engineer a few months ago about going to the Moon and beyond, and he started laughing, saying "How, we don't have the people to do it anymore", and he’s absolutely right, we don't. We’re all retiring, myself in ten years. We've got engineering positions where I work that can't get filled, which is causing delays on existing and future projects. We've also had problems w/our vendors and partners, who are faced w/the exact same problem, which causes delays and problems on their end.

India and China are both fast Growing Economies, and are investing heavily into engineering, science, and mathematics education in their countries. What is the US doing, absolutely nothing, we’re all too worried here in the US about our social programs, like nationalized healthcare. It’s also become not fair to be successful in this country, or to be smarter than someone else, thanks to the far left liberal’s.


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[Azhar]

It's one thing to tax people in order to run a basic government, according to the constitution, but it's quite another, to expect people to pay for what is a totally mismanaged bureaucracratic mess, run by irresponsible and utterly corrupt morons (lawyers).

As I said before, we have an infrastructure falling apart, and most importantly, a public school system that's become nothing more than a day care center.

People don't seem to understand that w/o education, we, the United States, aren't going anywhere, and are doomed BIG TIME.

I'm an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I happened to be talking to a fellow engineer a few months ago about going to the Moon and beyond, and he started laughing, saying "How, we don't have the people to do it anymore", and he’s absolutely right, we don't. We’re all retiring, myself in ten years. We've got engineering positions where I work that can't get filled, which is causing delays on existing and future projects. We've also had problems w/our vendors and partners, who are faced w/the exact same problem, which causes delays and problems on their end.

India and China are both fast Growing Economies, and are investing heavily into engineering, science, and mathematics education in their countries. What is the US doing, absolutely nothing, we’re all too worried here in the US about our social programs, like nationalized healthcare. It’s also become not fair to be successful in this country, or to be smarter than someone else, thanks to the far left liberal’s.


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I won't disagree with you that there are questionable taxes and things that should have never been taxed (bailouts, et al). But every country has those. It doesn't make it right, but what can we do? I vote for the other guy if the current president screws up or go against his word about taxes, but the next guy will do the same thing.

Instead of getting an ulcer over it, I think about the good things. There are good things I'm paying for that I have no problems doing. Technological innovations and advancements is one of them.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

It's not theft. You live in a country, you have to chip in to help pay for things. Money doesn't grow on trees.

No, it doesn't grow on trees, if it did then our government would not be able to spend so much, they have a source far more abundant, a printing press. Which is also another tax through inflation.

You're free to leave the country if you don't agree with it, so it's not theft.

You might as well call paying bills theft.

I really dislike the saying "if you don't like it, leave" this is a free country and we are free to try and change what we don't like, sooo...if you don't like it, leave.

Also, bills are not theft, bills are something I owe, something I spent money on or used up and now have to pay for, what it's like is going to your neighbor and forcing THEM to pay YOUR bills (I mean, your free to move right? So it's not theft), I did not spend any of this money, I did not incur the debt, why do I have to pay it?

I'm not deluding myself. Staying on topic with tax in mind, what's one of the largest government agency that make use of our taxes?

The military, right?

Doesn't our military have the fastest growing technological growth than anywhere in the world? Sure, it's for wars and all, but it helps the private sectors too. Planes, boats, radars, satellites..

Umm...No, the military is a very closed system, they are a part of the government and as such do not "create" anything, it is made by outside parties, and most of the tech is kept under wraps. It's also often vastly over paid for, with much being useless or total wastes. If however, this was a company they would have failed a long time ago for wasteful and fruitless spending. Which is not the only cost, the cost of the military is one of life, the cost of war also far out wights the "profit" made off any tech, as war costs billions and so you are left with an over all negative impact of not only the cost of developing the tech (through some private company) but also the costs of running which ever war they are pushing it for.

Like it or not, taxes is what make our country grow. It may not always be a positive thing, but you're welcome to live in an African country where people pay taxes in sheep and pigs. We've seen how far their countries have gotten.

In all truth countries like Africa have been held back from becoming industrialized because WE (the USA and UN) think they should be green. And forcing some of the poorest nations to buy the most expensive tech to become modern. If we want the world to be more "green" so bad we should do it first, but guess what, even we can't afford it.

But even then, taxes do not make a country grow, it can't, as its taking away, like I said, the government does not create anything, it TAKES things from someones creation/work, and as such is always taking from our country. Sure, some of these things need to be done (most can be done without however), but often can be done by the private sector and with far less spending as these companies still need to make a profit and are not a monopoly like the government.

 

[GoHack]

I won't disagree with you that there are questionable taxes and things that should have never been taxed (bailouts, et al). But every country has those. It doesn't make it right, but what can we do? I vote for the other guy if the current president screws up or go against his word about taxes, but the next guy will do the same thing.

Instead of getting an ulcer over it, I think about the good things. There are good things I'm paying for that I have no problems doing. Technological innovations and advancements is one of them.

As I just said, we are losing the skilled manpower to come up w/those technological innovations and advancements.

People want NASA shut down because they are more interested in providing government dependent social programs than they are in providing jobs.

You can control dependent and uneducated people. You can't control the independent and educated.


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[Powerage]

Umm...No, the military is a very closed system, they are a part of the government and as such do not "create" anything, it is made by outside parties, and most of the tech is kept under wraps. It's also often vastly over paid for, with much being useless or total wastes. If however, this was a company they would have failed a long time ago for wasteful and fruitless spending. Which is not the only cost, the cost of the military is one of life, the cost of war also far out wights the "profit" made off any tech, as war costs billions and so you are left with an over all negative impact of not only the cost of developing the tech (through some private company) but also the costs of running which ever war they are pushing it for.

What are you talking about? All Azhar is saying - I think - is that taxes obviously help to push technological growth and the military is an example of that. If you want to argue that they aren't good at it, then that's only more reason to make another government sector dedicated to scientific research.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

What are you talking about? All Azhar is saying - I think - is that taxes obviously help to push technological growth and the military is an example of that. If you want to argue that they aren't good at it, then that's only more reason to make another government sector dedicated to scientific research.

Lol, they don't, they go to fund weapons and the tax dollars the gov uses for funding "science" is more like a private fund raiser for those in office for their own personal aspirations or as "hand outs" to those who helped them get into office. It's not driven by the economy and by what people want and what we want to pay, we don't get a vote in that anymore, you think the gov will handle scientific funding better than the private sector? Have you looked at anything else the gov has taken over and how well that's worked out? Schools anyone? Yeah, good spending of money there. What about health care? LOL!!

 

[Azhar]

No, it doesn't grow on trees, if it did then our government would not be able to spend so much, they have a source far more abundant, a printing press. Which is also another tax through inflation.



I really dislike the saying "if you don't like it, leave" this is a free country and we are free to try and change what we don't like, sooo...if you don't like it, leave.

Also, bills are not theft, bills are something I owe, something I spent money on or used up and now have to pay for, what it's like is going to your neighbor and forcing THEM to pay YOUR bills (I mean, your free to move right? So it's not theft), I did not spend any of this money, I did not incur the debt, why do I have to pay it?



Umm...No, the military is a very closed system, they are a part of the government and as such do not "create" anything, it is made by outside parties, and most of the tech is kept under wraps. It's also often vastly over paid for, with much being useless or total wastes. If however, this was a company they would have failed a long time ago for wasteful and fruitless spending. Which is not the only cost, the cost of the military is one of life, the cost of war also far out wights the "profit" made off any tech, as war costs billions and so you are left with an over all negative impact of not only the cost of developing the tech (through some private company) but also the costs of running which ever war they are pushing it for.




In all truth countries like Africa have been held back from becoming industrialized because WE (the USA and UN) think they should be green. And forcing some of the poorest nations to buy the most expensive tech to become modern. If we want the world to be more "green" so bad we should do it first, but guess what, even we can't afford it.

But even then, taxes do not make a country grow, it can't, as its taking away, like I said, the government does not create anything, it TAKES things from someones creation/work, and as such is always taking from our country. Sure, some of these things need to be done (most can be done without however), but often can be done by the private sector and with far less spending as these companies still need to make a profit and are not a monopoly like the government.

The "green" movement is a recent phenomenon. Blaming the green movement (by the way, the US wanted no part in it when it first started - read up the Kyoto Accord) for Africa's downfall is very shortsighted. Africa was poor before that too. Africa is poor because there's no organization there. Anarchy rules and the government are run by thugs, thieves and fanatics. Disease isn't helping either. It's not just tax, I'm aware of that. It's one of many things.

As for the military, no it's not a closed system. Everything the military makes will eventually trickle out to the public. Remember DARPA? A lot of NASA's technology comes from the military too. The Air Force with the help of Roger Easton developed the NAVSTAR GPS systems too.

Yes there are top secret development in the military but the public generally don't need them. What are you going to do with an Atomic bomb in your house? Burglar deterrent? However, the military's research of the Atomic bomb led us to nuclear power, right?

I could go on all day but I'm sure you can find a bunch of military technology that made it into the public sector by Googling or Binging "military technology for the public".

And by the way I did not say "if you don't like it, leave the country". I said that it's not theft because you're not forced to pay. You have the option of living anywhere you want.

 

[BillR]

The "green" movement is a recent phenomenon. Blaming the green movement (by the way, the US wanted no part in it when it first started - read up the Kyoto Accord) for Africa's downfall is very shortsighted. Africa was poor before that too. Africa is poor because there's no organization there. Anarchy rules and the government are run by thugs, thieves and fanatics. Disease isn't helping either. It's not just tax, I'm aware of that. It's one of many things.

As for the military, no it's not a closed system. Everything the military makes will eventually trickle out to the public. Remember DARPA? A lot of NASA's technology comes from the military too. The Air Force with the help of Roger Easton developed the NAVSTAR GPS systems too.

Yes there are top secret development in the military but the public generally don't need them. What are you going to do with an Atomic bomb in your house? Burglar deterrent? However, the military's research of the Atomic bomb led us to nuclear power, right?

I could go on all day but I'm sure you can find a bunch of military technology that made it into the public sector by Googling or Binging "military technology for the public".

And by the way I did not say "if you don't like it, leave the country". I said that it's not theft because you're not forced to pay. You have the option of living anywhere you want.

There is nothing new about the "Green" movement. I recall talking about it in school, in the 50s. No offense meant but your history is full of convenient holes to fit what has become an attempt at a new culture.

The whole green thing was started to change the way we live and to equalize the wealth here and abroad. First they tried "the new ice age" in the 70's and when that (obviously) didn't happen they switched to global warming (not happening either, sorry). With full government control of the schools many of these attempts at rewriting history were easy however some of us who are a bit older remember they way it really was.

Suddenly people who are conservative in their thinking have become listed, by our government as "enemies of the state"...What happened to the Constitution?

Earlier in the thread someone commented we are past the need for capitalism and I ask again, without capitalism how will we achieve progress in any field. Show me one field where government has run any program without huge losses. Science loves big government, the government agenda keeps them in business, but, not one damn thing in the government agenda addresses the good of the people, only the good of the government and the few who run government.

No need to move, the need is to change our values back to those of the founding fathers.

 

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

We have mastered the ultimate technological advance though....

Talking DiningRoom Tables.

Putting that aside for a moment, the reasons for the hold up in the progress of mankind are principly:

1) Continued election of members of the party based on Religious idiocy and Anti-Science.

2) Corporate monopolies that thrive on the maintaining the status quo and trickling out innovation on thier artificial timetable to maximize profit.... Microsoft, Intel, etc.

3) Defense industry bleeding off enormous sums to build shit to fight the last battle, starving the innovations needed for the next battle.

4) Intense concentration of wealth by a handful of the Filthy Rich (tm) taking enormous resources out of the economy and stuffing them into safety deposit boxes. With political corruption in government playing accessory before and after the fact.

5) Anti-Innovation efforts by old world industries to delay, disrupt, and obfuscate efforts to move forward with innovations, most blatent being the Petroleum industry.

Anytime people want to stop the bullshit and get to work making all the new cool shit happen.... just stop electing the jerkoffs who participate in holding back the progress of the human race. IE: the NON-PROGRESSIVES.

 

[BillR]

We have mastered the ultimate technological advance though....

Talking DiningRoom Tables.

Putting that aside for a moment, the reasons for the hold up in the progress of mankind are principly:

1) Continued election of members of the party based on Religious idiocy and Anti-Science.

2) Corporate monopolies that thrive on the maintaining the status quo and trickling out innovation on thier artificial timetable to maximize profit.... Microsoft, Intel, etc.

3) Defense industry bleeding off enormous sums to build shit to fight the last battle, starving the innovations needed for the next battle.

4) Intense concentration of wealth by a handful of the Filthy Rich (tm) taking enormous resources out of the economy and stuffing them into safety deposit boxes. With political corruption in government playing accessory before and after the fact.

5) Anti-Innovation efforts by old world industries to delay, disrupt, and obfuscate efforts to move forward with innovations, most blatent being the Petroleum industry.

Anytime people want to stop the bullshit and get to work making all the new cool shit happen.... just stop electing the jerkoffs who participate in holding back the progress of the human race. IE: the NON-PROGRESSIVES.

Talking dining room tables...Ok, another acronym for talking points...Got it.

However, you are right about the progressives, they will be the end of us all, except for themselves of course.

 

[Gavv]

We have mastered the ultimate technological advance though....

Talking DiningRoom Tables.

Putting that aside for a moment, the reasons for the hold up in the progress of mankind are principly:

1) Continued election of members of the party based on Religious idiocy and Anti-Science.

2) Corporate monopolies that thrive on the maintaining the status quo and trickling out innovation on thier artificial timetable to maximize profit.... Microsoft, Intel, etc.

3) Defense industry bleeding off enormous sums to build shit to fight the last battle, starving the innovations needed for the next battle.

4) Intense concentration of wealth by a handful of the Filthy Rich (tm) taking enormous resources out of the economy and stuffing them into safety deposit boxes. With political corruption in government playing accessory before and after the fact.

5) Anti-Innovation efforts by old world industries to delay, disrupt, and obfuscate efforts to move forward with innovations, most blatent being the Petroleum industry.

Anytime people want to stop the bullshit and get to work making all the new cool shit happen.... just stop electing the jerkoffs who participate in holding back the progress of the human race. IE: the NON-PROGRESSIVES.

How did we make it this far with religion and peoples individual values and beliefs......Sheesh so old blaming religion for the world not making advancements....

 

[BillR]

How did we make it this far with religion and peoples individual values and beliefs......Sheesh so old blaming religion for the world not making advancements....

No worries, when that excuse runs out, they will find another.

 

[Spewn]

How did we make it this far with religion and peoples individual values and beliefs......Sheesh so old blaming religion for the world not making advancements....

Slow != stopped.

 

[rogue1979]

My biggest disappointment as well. All those decades since "one small step",and no giant leaps. I honestly don't know if they'll even make it to Mars in my lifetime. If they put all the time, effort,and money into space exploration as they have into wars,we'd have colonies there by now!

You hit the nail right on the head. Until someone or some government figures out how to make money by stepping up space exploration or colonizing planets, it isn't going to happen. I sure don't think the US can afford to finance anything meaningful with the amount debt the federal government has incurred.

We already have the technology, just nobody wants to spend the money for developing the logistics.

That's why we don't run things on wind and solar power. The government hasn't figured out how to make money off of those technologies like they do oil and gasoline.

 

[Bladestorm]

I said that it's not theft because you're not forced to pay.

Republican & Democrat Hypocrisy

Written by Marc Stevens


The hypocrisy these days is sickening, not from the politicians; we all know they’re a bunch of criminals who couldn’t care less about their victims. No, I’m speaking of the rank hypocrisy from the victims – republicans and democrats alike. The attention on government health care is as unrelenting as the hypocrisy.

“Democrats” claim government mandated insurance is humane because people shouldn’t die because they don’t have health insurance. "Republicans” talk about liberty, that people should not be forced to buy a product or service. Really, where have I heard that before?

Rush Limbaugh and some other “conservative” radio hosts are talking about this being the first time in American history Americans would be forced to pay for a service. What??? Apparently Rush has never heard of an obscure group calling themselves "government"?

Government is a service you’re forced pay for. How did that escape the most brilliant “conservative” minds?

How can republicans/conservatives and democrats/liberals talk about being humane and loving liberty? If there was no delay on radio and call screeners, maybe we’d hear people on air calling these guys on their glaring hypocrisy.

Let me make this perfectly clear: if you believe there should be government, then you’re neither humane nor a lover of liberty.

I don’t care if that angers you; as long as you advocate any level of government you are inhumane and an enemy of liberty. Statist (democrat, republican etc.) claims of being humane and lovers of liberty are vox et preterea nihil, as empty as the political campaign promises you always believe.

I’m sick of the usual political deflections and personal attacks when we, lovers of humanity and liberty, point out the truth, truth you already know; but refuse to apply to your owners. That’s right, the politicians own you and you know it. You rant and vent your anger towards people who actually love liberty instead of directing your contempt at the ones stealing your energy to the tune of TRILLIONS every year.

Here’s the truth you keep hiding from: Taxation is compulsory. Is that really so difficult for your government schooled mind to accept? We all know this; but you call me an idiot insisting I move to Afghanistan rather than you being an adult and accepting this simple truth and what it means. Sean Hannity always says, “Elections have consequences people.” Funny thing though, paying taxes has consequences too, Sean.

And what does it mean? Despite all your voting, you don’t voluntarily support governments. Governments have no voluntary support; they are violent parasites - no one wants them. I don’t care how much you think you do, you’re only deluding yourself.

Do you really believe people who force you to pay them are even remotely interested in protecting you? Think about that for a minute; stop watching “reality” TV or texting and really think about that.

They force you to pay them; what does that tell you about their nature? What kind of people force themselves on others? Democrats pretend to be concerned for those who cannot afford health insurance while conveniently ignoring the violence inflicted everyday by a group of men and women no one voluntarily supports. Conservatives pretend to abhor the use of violence to make people pay for insurance while cheerleading the same violence when used to pay for weapons of mass destruction.

I’ve pointed out how politicians admit they have no duty to protect you and instead of being angry with them you get angry with me. Here it is again, “Police have no statutory duty to do anything.” Souza v. City of Antioch, 4/30/1997, 2 Cal. App. 3d 1090, 284 Cal. Rptr. 16.

Do you get it now? There are hundreds of such examples governments have no duty to protect you. You know support for governments is always compulsory. This isn’t some wild “conspiracy theory”; TAXES ARE COMPULSORY; pay or you’ll see who really owns you.

What has to happen before you realize governments are never benevolent? What does it take before you grow up and stop attacking people who point out this irrefutable truth? I could shake your faith in God easier than your faith in government.

They force you to pay for "protection" while admitting they’re not there to protect you. And what do you do? You get mad and call me an idiot and a liar.

So if you still believe governments should exist, then do us lovers of freedom a favor; stop pretending you are humane and love liberty. Grow up - own your depravity.

Because those who truly love liberty are not fooled by your hypocrisy.

 

[an4rew]

Futuristic Movies have not helped...

 

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

Talking dining room tables...Ok, another acronym for talking points...Got it.

Apparently you didn't see the news. Dining room table was coined by Barney Frank as a person so frankly... dense...and set in thier idealogical belief that no amount of logic and/or fact and/or truth can or will ever alter thier beliefs.

Like believing that the earth is flat, being shown live video from space of the earth, clearly a sphere, and yet.... nope, it's flat.

The reference has nothing to do with "talking points".

 

[butterfliesrpretty]

You would think welfare was the cause of the recession listening to some of the republicans in this thread, you know it's just a small fraction of what we pay compared to the military. We need to stop trying to run an empire and worry about running one country.

As far as science goes I think it's improving vastly, it just takes time for these things to reach us on a personal level. I'm only 27 and have seen the days of no internet, no cell phones, atari 2600, etc. I myself am impressed how far we've come in a short amount of time.

 

[Powerage]

Apparently you didn't see the news. Dining room table was coined by Barney Frank as a person so frankly... dense...and set in thier idealogical belief that no amount of logic and/or fact and/or truth can or will ever alter thier beliefs.

Someone want to explain this dining room table thing?

 

[Bleedblue12345]

Think of a core i7 at 4ghz and dual 5970's back in 1999..... ya...

 

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

Bladestorm.... Democrats don't believe in MANDATING insurance. That idiot you quote may believe they do, but he's an idiot, another one of the great anti-tax- form a militia fellas.

There are Republicans walking around with Democratic party membership who may, but Democrats and Progressives have no interest in insurance at all. They want Single Payer National Healthcare Coverage, like Canada Taiwan France and ..... Medicare.

Not to be confused with National Healthcare like the UK, where the doctors and nurses and hospitals are all government employees and facilities.

In fact INSURANCE is one of the most SOCIALIST concepts out there. It is the twisted warped preversion of INSURANCE that we have in the US that is the problem.

The wealthy figured out how to game the system on insurance to make huge profits, while letting consumers "think" they are buying legit insurance.

The entire pool of people potentially effected by X, pool thier resources paying a small fraction of what X might cost them personally should they fall victim, and counting on the pool to pay out and cover the actual cost of X when it happens to them.

The cost is very simple... pool of N people at risk of X, cost of X, premium cost to all members X/N. Every one in N pays X/N to the pool (considerably less than X) and if/when they are a victim of X, the pool pays out. All of N make out well, because it only costs X/N to be in the pool, and if they befall X, the cost is covered and they aren't financially devastated.

Along comes the Filthy Rich (tm), who game the system, jack up the X/N and remove from the pool of N anyone more than likely to ever be affected by X (by any of the miriad despicable methods and tricks we've all become enlightened about in the last year). Increasing the pool intake, and reduce the pool outflow and pocketing the rest.

Turning an incredibly SOCIALIST concept (Insurance) into a Capitalist consumer fuckfest.

All real Democrats and Progressives want is for our healthcare coverage to be returned to as close to the X/N fomula as possible, without any of the funny business.

 

[pazhman]

I'm still waiting for my flying cars, hover shoes, invisible suits, and teleporters.

 

[BillR]

Bladestorm.... Democrats don't believe in MANDATING insurance. That idiot you quote may believe they do, but he's an idiot, another one of the great anti-tax- form a militia fellas.

There are Republicans walking around with Democratic party membership who may, but Democrats and Progressives have no interest in insurance at all. They want Single Payer National Healthcare Coverage, like Canada Taiwan France and ..... Medicare.

Not to be confused with National Healthcare like the UK, where the doctors and nurses and hospitals are all government employees and facilities.

In fact INSURANCE is one of the most SOCIALIST concepts out there. It is the twisted warped preversion of INSURANCE that we have in the US that is the problem.

The wealthy figured out how to game the system on insurance to make huge profits, while letting consumers "think" they are buying legit insurance.

The entire pool of people potentially effected by X, pool thier resources paying a small fraction of what X might cost them personally should they fall victim, and counting on the pool to pay out and cover the actual cost of X when it happens to them.

The cost is very simple... pool of N people at risk of X, cost of X, premium cost to all members X/N. Every one in N pays X/N to the pool (considerably less than X) and if/when they are a victim of X, the pool pays out. All of N make out well, because it only costs X/N to be in the pool, and if they befall X, the cost is covered and they aren't financially devastated.

Along comes the Filthy Rich (tm), who game the system, jack up the X/N and remove from the pool of N anyone more than likely to ever be affected by X (by any of the miriad despicable methods and tricks we've all become enlightened about in the last year). Increasing the pool intake, and reduce the pool outflow and pocketing the rest.

Turning an incredibly SOCIALIST concept (Insurance) into a Capitalist consumer fuckfest.

All real Democrats and Progressives want is for our healthcare coverage to be returned to as close to the X/N fomula as possible, without any of the funny business.

The insurance company sells a product, for profit. Twist it however you like, perhaps try for a current government job, but individual paid insurance is pure capitalism... and it works.

 

[HOCP4ME]

Earlier in the thread someone commented we are past the need for capitalism and I ask again, without capitalism how will we achieve progress in any field. Show me one field where government has run any program without huge losses. Science loves big government, the government agenda keeps them in business, but, not one damn thing in the government agenda addresses the good of the people, only the good of the government and the few who run government.

There is nothing intrinsic about capitalism that stimulates innovation and progress. The beauty of capitalism is its ability to choose optimal price and production levels for a good to maximize efficiency - that is, the ratio of satisfaction produced to resources consumed. It also does this without relying on a (uninformed at best, corrupt at worst) government to make such production decisions.

It does not, however, encourage innovation and discovery. Private companies will do only what provides them with the greatest profit. Research and development (with its high risk and uncertain outcome) rarely tops that criterion.

In fact, without the concept of intellectual property (enforced by a government), I doubt capitalism would bring us any innovation at all.

Also, to provide an example of government spending resulting in better technology for the public: I work for a company made of two units. The main corporation develops new large gun/artillery technologies for the US military. It subsists completely on government research grants. We recently discovered that one of our most promising gun technologies can also be used to fire presses for the manufacturing of metallic parts. Therefore, we now have an LLC creating stainless steel alloys 30% stronger than anything currently on the market - for use in consumer applications - using a technology originating from government-funded military research.

5) Anti-Innovation efforts by old world industries to delay, disrupt, and obfuscate efforts to move forward with innovations, most blatent being the Petroleum industry.

This is the primary problem. Obsolete industries do anything they can to preserve themselves - music/movie studios being an example most of us can relate to. Batteries are another; why would battery companies destroy themselves by developing a battery that never needs replacing? This is why we see only evolutionary and rarely revolutionary technology.

Bladestorm.... Democrats don't believe in MANDATING insurance. That idiot you quote may believe they do, but he's an idiot, another one of the great anti-tax- form a militia fellas.

There are Republicans walking around with Democratic party membership who may, but Democrats and Progressives have no interest in insurance at all. They want Single Payer National Healthcare Coverage, like Canada Taiwan France and ..... Medicare.

Not to be confused with National Healthcare like the UK, where the doctors and nurses and hospitals are all government employees and facilities.

In fact INSURANCE is one of the most SOCIALIST concepts out there. It is the twisted warped preversion of INSURANCE that we have in the US that is the problem.

The wealthy figured out how to game the system on insurance to make huge profits, while letting consumers "think" they are buying legit insurance.

The entire pool of people potentially effected by X, pool thier resources paying a small fraction of what X might cost them personally should they fall victim, and counting on the pool to pay out and cover the actual cost of X when it happens to them.

The cost is very simple... pool of N people at risk of X, cost of X, premium cost to all members X/N. Every one in N pays X/N to the pool (considerably less than X) and if/when they are a victim of X, the pool pays out. All of N make out well, because it only costs X/N to be in the pool, and if they befall X, the cost is covered and they aren't financially devastated.

Along comes the Filthy Rich (tm), who game the system, jack up the X/N and remove from the pool of N anyone more than likely to ever be affected by X (by any of the miriad despicable methods and tricks we've all become enlightened about in the last year). Increasing the pool intake, and reduce the pool outflow and pocketing the rest.

Turning an incredibly SOCIALIST concept (Insurance) into a Capitalist consumer fuckfest.

All real Democrats and Progressives want is for our healthcare coverage to be returned to as close to the X/N fomula as possible, without any of the funny business.

This x 1000. Insurance is not for profit. When it is for profit, you get people paying inflated premiums their entire lives only to be dropped the day after they get cancer...etc.

However that's getting somewhat off-topic.

 

[Azhar]

<snip>

Yeah I got it. You're angry at the government and its citizens. So do something about it. I'm content with how things are, while being fully aware that it's not perfect. I don't intend on losing sleep over it.

I'm sure you have all kinds of labels for me and people who thinks like me, but hey if it makes you happy.