People That Don’t Like Video Games Helping To Make Videogames

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I'm kind of on the fence about this approach to making video games. Part of me thinks it is a good idea. The other part of me thinks that you'll just end up with a video game tailored towards people that don't like video games.

Montreal-based programmer Brie Code has set up a new studio called Tru Luv Media that aims to make videogames with the help of people who don’t like videogames. The reason being that she wants her friends and people like them to care about games. These are people for who videogames do not resonate at all, mostly because they draw from the same cultural references time and again, use the same design principles, and are primarily made for people who already play videogames—there’s nothing there for anyone else.
 
Mandatory Penny Arcade comic:

390412949_LosWo-2100x20000.jpg
 
This is not really new. There have been awesome games designed by non-video game fans for decades. One of my favorites of all time is Lori Cole who never enjoyed playing video games before she started designing them; even before her, there have been lots of "outsider" designers who have contributed in making very rich and different games. But they usually had entertainment/creative backgrounds, either from DnD, writing, or filmmaking. Normal/mainstream people are notoriously bad at giving creative advice, but a good designer can read between the lines what they really want. Of course, being an outsider won't make the game good or bad. Now it all depends on how good a designer Code is. If she is spectacularly good, the game will be good for everyone...

I have to give her credit that she, at least, managed to gain my curiosity. I think I'll, at least, check out her game to see what her "different vision" is (even if I'm not really optimistic). That's more than what 99% of the small indie developers who have started making their first game this year have achieved so far.
 
Child of Like is a very good game.

A Boy and his Blob

A Tale of Two Sons

There are a ton of good indie games that are a huge cut above most of the crap that is released now days.

I am personally planning/working on a game of my own. Been planning it for the past couple years and have started learning the engine I finally decided on.
 
Sometimes people get in a rut, if new things are being tried, maybe something cool could come out of it.

Or we could get more Quick Time events to mash.
 
About the only person who needs to like videogames from a development team is the designer. Everyone else don't need to like them. I mean you'd be fucking miserable in QA testing if you don't like games, but you don't need to like them to find and document bugs. Artists don't need to like them, writers, either, voice actors, none of the above.
 
jfreund said:
Are they hiring Anita Sarkeesian?
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Wouldn't be surprised. Brie Code is actually a video game industry veteran who also has regressive tendencies. She was the lead programmer at Ubisoft who also launched their diversity initiative while she was there.

Looks up on DuckDuckGo...
Yep, she's wearing problem glasses.
 
M76 said:
About the only person who needs to like videogames from a development team is the designer. Everyone else don't need to like them. I mean you'd be fucking miserable in QA testing if you don't like games, but you don't need to like them to find and document bugs. Artists don't need to like them, writers, either, voice actors, none of the above.
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If the actual programmers don't like video games, they are generally going to put the least amount of effort possible into their work if they are programming a game.

The whole team needs to love video games in order to be able to put out a great video game.

If you hate what you are doing, you aren't going to do your best. End of story.
 
As gamers, we know that a well-designed game mechanic can convey meaning more efficiently than a novel or film. Papers, Please taught us that. Train taught us that. This War of Mine. Etc.
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What is the Train game the author is talking about? It has such a generic name that anytime I google it I get stuff about actual trains, or links to Train Simulator 2016
 
cyclone3d said:
If the actual programmers don't like video games, they are generally going to put the least amount of effort possible into their work if they are programming a game.

The whole team needs to love video games in order to be able to put out a great video game.

If you hate what you are doing, you aren't going to do your best. End of story.
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you don't need to love vidoegames to love working with model creation or doing voce acting. There is no difference from this going into a game or something else.
So you can easilly have a love for what you are doing without liking videogames.
 
cyclone3d said:
If the actual programmers don't like video games, they are generally going to put the least amount of effort possible into their work if they are programming a game.

The whole team needs to love video games in order to be able to put out a great video game.

If you hate what you are doing, you aren't going to do your best. End of story.
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I don't follow. Not liking videogames, is not equal to not liking programming. OR not liking doing voice acting, or not liking writing stories. Or not liking creating art.

A tyre manufacturer doesn't have to like car racing. But he can still like chemistry and the fabrication and the R&D going into developing the best possible racing tyres.
 
Video games are already made by people that don't like video games or gamers, why do you think those infuriating mechanics are in them? ;)
 
Lets hire cooks who don't like food! Lets elect politicians that don't really like their constituents (oh, wait...). Anyway, lets milk virtue signalling to secure easy venture capital!
 
M76 said:
I don't follow. Not liking videogames, is not equal to not liking programming. OR not liking doing voice acting, or not liking writing stories. Or not liking creating art.

A tyre manufacturer doesn't have to like car racing. But he can still like chemistry and the fabrication and the R&D going into developing the best possible racing tyres.
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Because to me, making great video games is pretty much an art form. Sure, the people making the game may be good at what they do, but that doesn't mean they will have the drive to help make the game a work of art.

For example, a programmer can be given the task of writing a function or set of functions with specific input and expected results. But, if the only requirement is that it follow the specifications, unless the programmer has the desire to make it the best way/most efficient way possible, it will probably end up being a slow piece of code that gets the job done.

However, if the programmer is excited about the final product, I would think that he/she would tend to work more closely with the game designers and suggest ways to improve the way the function behaves.

Same goes for the artists, voice actors, etc. If they are not excited about the final product, you will most likely just end up with a ho-hum product that meets the design requirements, but does not excel in any way.

Being excited about using the final product that you helped design or engineer tends to make a huge difference in the quality of the finished product.

Somebody that is just in it because it is a "job" is going to treat it exactly like that.
 
cyclone3d said:
Because to me, making great video games is pretty much an art form. Sure, the people making the game may be good at what they do, but that doesn't mean they will have the drive to help make the game a work of art.

For example, a programmer can be given the task of writing a function or set of functions with specific input and expected results. But, if the only requirement is that it follow the specifications, unless the programmer has the desire to make it the best way/most efficient way possible, it will probably end up being a slow piece of code that gets the job done.

However, if the programmer is excited about the final product, I would think that he/she would tend to work more closely with the game designers and suggest ways to improve the way the function behaves.

Same goes for the artists, voice actors, etc. If they are not excited about the final product, you will most likely just end up with a ho-hum product that meets the design requirements, but does not excel in any way.

Being excited about using the final product that you helped design or engineer tends to make a huge difference in the quality of the finished product.

Somebody that is just in it because it is a "job" is going to treat it exactly like that.
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What you're describing might have been true at the time when garage projects were the thing. When three people could do a blockbuster game. Now game development is just like movie making. It's all about the crunch. It drives people to the very edge, they don't even see the overall project, they often don't even know what they're working on. I have acquaintances in both game development and the movie industry. More specifically one is a VFX artist who worked at the major companies on movies like Fast and Furious, and the new Star Wars, Termniator, etc. And my other friend is a game designer at Creative Assembly.

And at a time I almost had a career in game development but it turned out differently. If you love games you want to become a game designer. A lead designer preferably. If you are a programmer you must love programming. Loving videogames is not enough, you'll be miserable. But if you love programming your pride won't let you make crap. Same goes for VFX, it's a miserable but well paid living. And unless you absolutely love the art your love for movies won't help you. Especially since you don't know what you're doing most of the time, you're working on minuscule details of a few scenes, and only the project leads see the big picture. The first time a VFX artist sees his work in a final setting is in the movie theater same as everyone else. Same goes for most game artists.

Voice actors know the least about games they provide their voices for. Their love for games has absolutely no impact on their work. It's like saying the people making bolts and nuts must love cars, for the car to be any good.

It's not a problem if they love videogames, but it's absolutely not a prerequisite. They are professionals, and they take pride in their work. And if you think they'd half-ass a job because they don't like videogames then you're really not giving them justice.
 
M76 said:
What you're describing might have been true at the time when garage projects were the thing. When three people could do a blockbuster game. Now game development is just like movie making. It's all about the crunch. It drives people to the very edge, they don't even see the overall project, they often don't even know what they're working on. I have acquaintances in both game development and the movie industry. More specifically one is a VFX artist who worked at the major companies on movies like Fast and Furious, and the new Star Wars, Termniator, etc. And my other friend is a game designer at Creative Assembly.

And at a time I almost had a career in game development but it turned out differently. If you love games you want to become a game designer. A lead designer preferably. If you are a programmer you must love programming. Loving videogames is not enough, you'll be miserable. But if you love programming your pride won't let you make crap. Same goes for VFX, it's a miserable but well paid living. And unless you absolutely love the art your love for movies won't help you. Especially since you don't know what you're doing most of the time, you're working on minuscule details of a few scenes, and only the project leads see the big picture. The first time a VFX artist sees his work in a final setting is in the movie theater same as everyone else. Same goes for most game artists.

Voice actors know the least about games they provide their voices for. Their love for games has absolutely no impact on their work. It's like saying the people making bolts and nuts must love cars, for the car to be any good.

It's not a problem if they love videogames, but it's absolutely not a prerequisite. They are professionals, and they take pride in their work. And if you think they'd half-ass a job because they don't like videogames then you're really not giving them justice.
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And this is why a lot of Indie games coming out are more enjoyable than the crappy shovelware we are getting.

Too many people working on the project that have no connection to each other. That and the publishers only care about money.

Sucky time crunches and overworking the employees that the big companies do tends to churn out pure crap.

And that is why I don't ever want to work for a big software company.

Small team working together on a game seems to tend to produce a much higher quality game from what I have seen as of late. The team pours everything they have into it and it shows.
 
cyclone3d said:
And this is why a lot of Indie games coming out are more enjoyable than the crappy shovelware we are getting.

Too many people working on the project that have no connection to each other. That and the publishers only care about money.

Sucky time crunches and overworking the employees that the big companies do tends to churn out pure crap.

And that is why I don't ever want to work for a big software company.

Small team working together on a game seems to tend to produce a much higher quality game from what I have seen as of late. The team pours everything they have into it and it shows.
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There is truth in that, but big titles will never go back to the way they were. There is too much work involved in creating a modern AAA title. I think CIG is a good example of that. They're trying to create a modern AAA title with the old methods of game development that could only fly in the nineties. I hope they don't fail, but I don't except them to succeed.

The way I see it indie game devs are one trick ponies at best. Sometimes some of them hit the nail on the head, but I haven't seen any of them that could repeat it. There is just too much crap to sift trough to find the few gems in there.
 
Having non-gamers helping/giving input is fine. Letting them be the ones that make the decisions is a recipe for disaster
 
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