Peltier/TEC PSU question.

d_stilgar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
440
Could this psu power a 437W peltier and two 80W gpu peltiers?
http://www.frozencpu.com/psu-123.html

I know it will work on the 437W, but my worry is that the two 80W coolers will recieve too many amps--30 instead of the 10 it say they are supposed to recieve.

If 30amps will burn out the 80W TECs, then how do I go about bringing the amps down between the PSU and the TEC?

Thanks.

Here are part links:
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=134&cat=48&page=1
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=133&cat=58&page=1
http://www.frozencpu.com/exp-04.html
 

DFI Daishi

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
2,839
i think that you are more than a bit confused with how this stuff works.

first off, those 80 W GPU pelts are 12 volt units, and that is a 24 volt supply. unless you have a 24 to 12 volt step-down, or replace the wires on the pelts with heavier gauge run the two GPU pelts in series, you're going to kill them with too much voltage right quick.

as for anything "receiving too many amps".......go and do a bit of reading. that PSU makes 30 amps available, and the hardware running off of it draws as many amps as it needs. if you hooked up a 1 amp, 24 volt lightbulb, it would sit there drawing 1 amp of current and opperating quite happily.

the maze 4-1 CPU block can only fit a 50x50 mm or smaller pelt. that is the block that i use, and although there is a bit of space around the 50x50mm pelt, there is not over a cm of extra space such that you could stick a 62x62mm pelt in there.

next up, 80 watt pelts are not enough to keep a current gen card cool. i had to give up my 80 watt GPU pelt when i moved up from my old 9800 pro to my current x850XT. if you want to pelt cool a GPU, you should be looking into a 120 watt, 24 volt pelt or stronger.

even if you went with a block that can accomodate a 62x62 mm pelt and went over to some 24 volt pelts for the GPU blocks if you add up the amperage, if you add up the current requirement for all of those pelts you'll find yourself sadly over the rated amperage limit for that PSU.

lastly: how were you planning on cooling everything? in all seriousness, if you're looking at pelt cooling, you need either a really big rad, or a lot of smaller ones. i use 2 BIX2 rads for my own loop, and it was pretty good for a 226 watt pelt, an 80 watt pelt and the system heat. if you're looking at dealing with the heat of all of that pelt gear........something like a pair of thermochill PA120.3 rads with badass fans on there wouldn't be out of line. you'd need a BIG pump as well.

you want to go over some more details? i can give you some pointers if you put up more system info.
 

d_stilgar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
440
Thanks for the help, I was originally looking at the Wintsch Labs - Arctic Web 437W, but their site is gone and I can't find that block anywhere now. So I need to find a block that will be able to hold that TEC.

Here's a 172W 24V 40x40mm peltier for the GPU blocks.
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=89&cat=30&page=1

For radiators I was thinking maybe these two, one on top and one on the back.
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-rad-06.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-rad-45.html

And I was thinking of this pump. I've been doing research on pumps, flow rates etc. I think this one is good for what I need.
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-34.html

I want to run dual 7800s and I'm not sure on the CPU yet, I'm leaning towards AMD Athlon64 X2, I also like Intel chips. I'm just starting to plan a computer I want to build.

Anyways, that should fix my other problems, but now I have to find an 800W PSU that can deliver enough amps. I amy have to get two smaller ones.
 

iSkylla

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
Messages
1,685
I dont know much about Pelts, but Zippy PSUs are very powerful. Or if you want 2 PSUs, get a CM Stacker, it has room for 2 full ATX PSUs.
 

DFI Daishi

2[H]4U
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Messages
2,839
d_stilgar said:
Thanks for the help, I was originally looking at the Wintsch Labs - Arctic Web 437W, but their site is gone and I can't find that block anywhere now. So I need to find a block that will be able to hold that TEC.
you're probably looking at custom fabrication or used hardware if you want to use a 62x62mm pelt, now that wintsch labs is out of business. they are the only company that i am aware of to have ever used a single pelt that size.

d_stilgar said:
i didn't have much doubt that you'd be able to get some of these.

d_stilgar said:
For radiators I was thinking maybe these two, one on top and one on the back.
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-rad-06.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-rad-45.html
as a general rule, the black ice pro rads work better than the xtremes. if you are running fans with individual outputs below 100 CFM, you should probably go with the pro. additionally, stronger fans pulling give you better performance per noise than weaker fans opperating push-pull.

d_stilgar said:
And I was thinking of this pump. I've been doing research on pumps, flow rates etc. I think this one is good for what I need.
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-34.html
that thing is WAY too weak. if you look at DNA's rig, he has a pair of MCP 600 pumps going, each one of which outperforms that asetek unit. i use a big danner mag 7-8 (???the eight doesn't exist, but it doesn't seem to be a 7) pump for myself.

a D5 pump might be adequate, but you will get more cooling out of your rad and blocks with more flow.

this is about the best thing going for top flow and pressure: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1123 note that the flow arting for these guys is at 4' of head, as opposed to the 0' head that everyone else uses for rating.

d_stilgar said:
Anyways, that should fix my other problems, but now I have to find an 800W PSU that can deliver enough amps. I may have to get two smaller ones.
you're unlikely to find a deicated PSU of that sort from a computer/cooling/overclocking store. you'd do well to look at electronic supply specialists.
 

d_stilgar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
440
More flow isn't always better. A pump should be just powerful enough to move water through the system without allowing it to sit inside a water block for an extended time. If the water moves too slowly, it will not be able to effectively whisk heat away from the chip. If the water moves too quickly, it won’t have adequate time to soak up the heat from the water block.
I've also been thinking of this one,
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-21.html

But I'm going to eventually calculate the total amount of water that will be in the system to figure out just how much flow will give me the best cooling.
 

DNA

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
109
d_stilgar said:
Thanks for the help, I was originally looking at the Wintsch Labs - Arctic Web 437W, but their site is gone and I can't find that block anywhere now.
As of 11/11- "Yes we are offering tech support for our customers. There is still some remaining inventory as well. e-mail is "wintschlabs" 'at' {cox} [dot] (net). We are and will be supplying the community with the 437watt peltier devices. I beleive our influence from now on will be more in the background than in the foreground. Thanks to all our customers for their support. We're still here for them if they need."

-Devin
 

DFI Daishi

2[H]4U
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Messages
2,839
d_stilgar said:
More flow isn't always better. A pump should be just powerful enough to move water through the system without allowing it to sit inside a water block for an extended time. If the water moves too slowly, it will not be able to effectively whisk heat away from the chip. If the water moves too quickly, it won’t have adequate time to soak up the heat from the water block.
I've also been thinking of this one,
http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-21.html

But I'm going to eventually calculate the total amount of water that will be in the system to figure out just how much flow will give me the best cooling.
fire up procooling.com for discussions by people who engineer watercooling hardware and enthusiasts alike. the summary is that higher flow rate is better up until the point that the pump starts dumping a pile of extra heat into the loop.

heat getting into the coolant fluid isn't dependant upon time per-se. it's more dependant upon how fast the fluid is coming into contact with the metal, picking up some heat, and then leaving so that some fresh, cool, coolant can get in there and do it's thing. the faster the coolant moves, the closer to ambient the coolant taking heat away from the block is going to be, the closer the block can be to whatever temp the coolant is.

the same trend holds true for rads. check out some of these rad reviews: http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index31.asp#WATER COOLING you can ignore most of the rest, but the rad testing is top notch.

for all of the details, bickering, simulations, debate, modeling and testing madness, head on over to procooling.

so long as the loop is full of water, without air bubbles, the volume of coolant present is irrevelant after several minutes of opperation. the coolant gets to an equalibrium temp pretty quickly, such that there is seldom more than 1 C or 2C difference between any two points within the loop. watercooling works on high volumes of coolant flow, with a low delta T in order to move heat within the loop.
 

d_stilgar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
440
Thanks again for the help. What is the address to email about the Arctic Web?
 

cornelious0_0

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
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Not that I feel I'm knowledgable enough to become actively helpfull in this convo (or could have)...but thank you DFI Daishi, your knowledge continues to astound me, and when it comes time, I'll definitely be "giving you a call" to help me design my dual Pelt setup...gonna shock everyone and do it as spotlessly clean as possible in a (midtower) Lian-Li PC-6077...although I'll be limited to a single 120x3 rad...so we'll see what happens I guess. :D
 

Stugots

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 25, 2004
Messages
6,968
Over 1000W in peltiers alone...Way too much for my taste. You'll probobly need 2 of those PSU's. 1 cpu and 1 gpu pelt on each power supply, so that if one PSU or pelt fails, your components wont burn up that quickly and you may have a chance to turn it off.
 

cornelious0_0

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Messages
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acascianelli said:
Over 1000W in peltiers alone...Way too much for my taste. You'll probobly need 2 of those PSU's. 1 cpu and 1 gpu pelt on each power supply, so that if one PSU or pelt fails, your components wont burn up that quickly and you may have a chance to turn it off.

Agreed, 1kW in Pelts is a little much, and at that point I would just consider moving to a single stage phase change unit.

For myself...hmm, maybe just a 226W Pelt for the CPU, and a seperate water only loop for the video card. It'd be simple enough to mount the rad ontop of the case and have the tubing come down into the case to the CPU...and then use the rear mounted dual 80mm fans on the Lian-Li PC-6077 for a dual 80mm rad for the video card. Could be nice if I could design/lay it out properly.
 

DFI Daishi

2[H]4U
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Messages
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cornelious0_0 said:
Not that I feel I'm knowledgable enough to become actively helpfull in this convo (or could have)...but thank you DFI Daishi, your knowledge continues to astound me, and when it comes time, I'll definitely be "giving you a call" to help me design my dual Pelt setup...gonna shock everyone and do it as spotlessly clean as possible in a (midtower) Lian-Li PC-6077...although I'll be limited to a single 120x3 rad...so we'll see what happens I guess. :D
once you make enough mistakes, if you learn from them, then you eventually become knowledgable.

i am also running a PC 6077 case, and i would say that you would be very hard pressed to keep everything internally mounted, even using the top, bottom, and sides of the case.

i am actually running two BIX II rads, one built into the top of my case, and one muonted using right-angle brackets to the perforated area beside the PCI slot covers.

i only learned of my folly in going with the BIX series rads well after the fact. HWlab's rating system does not reflect the results that you get with a case fan, and so i continually am trying to point people away from the BIX series and towards the BIP series.
 

cornelious0_0

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DFI Daishi said:
once you make enough mistakes, if you learn from them, then you eventually become knowledgable.

i am also running a PC 6077 case, and i would say that you would be very hard pressed to keep everything internally mounted, even using the top, bottom, and sides of the case.

i am actually running two BIX II rads, one built into the top of my case, and one muonted using right-angle brackets to the perforated area beside the PCI slot covers.

i only learned of my folly in going with the BIX series rads well after the fact. HWlab's rating system does not reflect the results that you get with a case fan, and so i continually am trying to point people away from the BIX series and towards the BIP series.

Got any pics of the case/setup you could post up or send to me?

I KINDA just wanna put a single 3x120mm rad ontop of the case and run regular h2O on the cpu and video card...even if i dont NEED the cooling properties of the larger rad...you can't say it wouldn't look fricken cool with that thing mounted professionally taking up almost the entire top of the chasis. :)
 
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