PCI-Express....Should I really Care?

D

defiant

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Messages
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Ive been stuck with my GF4400 now for the past 2 years and have been itching to upgrade to nvidia/ati's latest offerings this year which are obviously going to be AGP. Now i have also been hearing that the cards that are going to be released even later this year are going to be pci-e. Of course I have a preference for upgrading to the card with the greatest longevity but is there any point in waiting it out for pci-e instead of agp?? Would there even be any noticeable improvement in performance?? As it stands we cant even use 8x agp to its full capacity, to date it has been pretty much used as a marketing gimmick. I have also seen on nvnews that nvidia are planning on intoducing pci-e cards based on their current FX range thus further reinforcing the idea in my mind that its just a marketing gimmick. So does any1 really know if pci-e cards are all that? I dont particularly feel like upgrading my motherboard just to get a vid card that offers minimal improvement over an agp card. :confused:
 
You bet your sweet cheezy ass you should care.
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It will, at first, be much more expensive than an AGP board. Your old cards won't work, which just adds to that cost.

However, even in its early stages, it will perform faster than AGP. Even if the socket itself is not faster at first, graphic card manufactures will be creating new cards to run on PCI-E. These new cards will be faster than their AGP counterparts, even if the socket itself isn't at the time.

Your system will have a much longer lifespan also. When companies switch their manufactoring over completely to PCI-E, you won't have an option to buy anything new AGP. Then if you want to upgrade to the newest video card, or even if your old network card fries, you will have a much harder time.

That is just if you are wanting a new system. If you are like me and already have a high end atx/agp system, there is no reason to rush out and upgrade as it will take a while to phase out agp and the atx formfactor completely.
 
Originally posted by Brad4321
It will, at first, be much more expensive than an AGP board. Your old cards won't work, which just adds to that cost.

However, even in its early stages, it will perform faster than AGP. Even if the socket itself is not faster at first, graphic card manufactures will be creating new cards to run on PCI-E. These new cards will be faster than their AGP counterparts, even if the socket itself isn't at the time.

Your system will have a much longer lifespan also. When companies switch their manufactoring over completely to PCI-E, you won't have an option to buy anything new AGP. Then if you want to upgrade to the newest video card, or even if your old network card fries, you will have a much harder time.

That is just if you are wanting a new system. If you are like me and already have a high end atx/agp system, there is no reason to rush out and upgrade as it will take a while to phase out agp and the atx formfactor completely.
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Aaaah k, im pretty much in the same boat as you which is why im wondering about this whole agp vs pci-e. Only upgraded to a canterwood m/b and cpu about 6 months ago and dont want to particularly upgrade again so soon. So wots the point of nvidia upgrading their current FX range to pci-e....will it even make a different to those cards? And whats this stuff i hear about nvidia using some sort agp-pcie bridging chip?
 
No... you shouldn´t...
Just 1 or 2% of performace increase...
Just like AGP4x to AGP8x... or even worst...

PCI-EXPRESS is all about that power thing... it can gives more energy to the VGA... or something like that (i cant explain in english)...
 
the reason why you should care is simple. this time next year, no one will be making agp chipsets. (the only one who will be in six months is possibly via, and that chipset supposedly has performance problems because of having both agp and pci.
 
is that the only reason? There is nothing to care about performance wise?
 
You're going to have to wait for benchmarks like the rest of us. However its safe to say the people saying there will be no performance difference are the Nvidia crowd.
 
will mobo's eventually have all pci xpress slots for your nic and sound card, or will pci remain?
 
from the sound of it, you should care only because you're going to be forced to care/upgrade to it eventually.
 
There might be some gains, but they will be overshadowed by those of the new graphic cores. It will help when transferring textures, but games try to prevent this from being an issue during gameplay.

The issue about pci-express, btx, new intel chipsets, ddr2 etc is simply when to upgrade. Will any board maker make an agp version of intels new chipset. When will mainboards switch to btx formfactor. When will ddr2 replace ddr...the next upgrade might be a little costly...new case, mainboard, ram, and video card.

Pci express will replace agp and it seems unlikely to have a solid bridged solution. Basically mainboards might be pci-express or agp.

BTX- improved cooling formfactor. Trying to keep airflow moving in a straight line.
 
pci express = 16x.
less transactions(talking straight to the memory and processor)

2 reasons why you should like pci express, Really the best place to go is nvidia or microsoft's site and check out the demo. they explain exactly why Pci-Express is better. I do agree that its gonna be a while before it actually is a huge difference, but based on its bandwidth and fast transactions, It's gonna blow up.

http://download.nvidia.com/video/reed_prezo/Reed_256.wmv
 
intels next chipsets will not support agp at all. no mater what motherboard makers do this is what they are stuck with. sis' next gen chipsets are the same. via is the only one who will continue to offer agp on a chipset that does both. Intel wanted to do that but suposedly having both introduced serious performance problems, also, via's chipset is supposed to suffer from similar performance problems.
 
Originally posted by AMDoido
No... you shouldn´t...
Just 1 or 2% of performace increase...
Just like AGP4x to AGP8x... or even worst...

PCI-EXPRESS is all about that power thing... it can gives more energy to the VGA... or something like that (i cant explain in english)...
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your wrong
 
Originally posted by ATI9700Pro
so, is it still worth upgrading to the new r420?
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ati's next gen card is not out yet

no one can quess its worth in upgrading until it is out and performance is evaluated
 
quick question:
will pci-express be backwards compatible with pci?
for example will a pci nic work in a pci-express slot?
 
Originally posted by ARN
quick question:
will pci-express be backwards compatible with pci?
for example will a pci nic work in a pci-express slot?
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No. PCI (and PCI-X) is a parallel protocol. PCI-E is a serial protocol.

It's very much like PATA and SATA: they do the same thing, but in a different manner (parallel vs serial datatransfer). Unless you use an adapter, those two technologies are incompatible.
 
It's a serial protocol, but the video cards will use 16 serial channels. It's serial, but also parallel in a way.
 
I dont think pci-express will make much of a difference, but yes you should care if you plan to keep your next video card beyond your current system.
 
PCI express does have some interesting technology behind it more than just better bandwidth of AGP.

Its supposed to have the equivalent of what SATA has over ATA. That being a queing system for data transfer, which speeds up data rates at the same clockspeed, and reduces CPU overhead. And its not "Fastwrites" which still has a few problems in some AGP systems.

It runs on a more efficient bus, with lower signalling voltages and higher amperages but better tolerances. Which means a cooler running card and/or higher clockspeeds than its AGP counterpart. At least in theory anyhow.
 
Originally posted by pxc
It's a serial protocol, but the video cards will use 16 serial channels. It's serial, but also parallel in a way.
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Yes, there are multiple data channels, but unlike with a real parallel interface, there's no need for the bits of each channel to arrive at exactly the same time at the other end. Each channel is independent from the other channels, which, among other things, increases reliability.
 
Originally posted by mewannafastpc
so they phasing out atx cases too?
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BTX is the new formfactor

here is the btx specifications pdf http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5CBTX_Specification1.0.pdf

copy and paste url
 
i expect ATI's first generation PCI-E to kill the first generation of Nvidia PCI-E cards, because Nvidia's first gen will be their current lineup modded with an agp bridge to run on PCI-E while the the ATI solution will be the all new R420 core running on PCI-E (which'll be known as R423) natively (no AGP bridge)
 
hmm, the way I see it, neither company will have a bridgeless solution ready imminently, both have them in the works though. It all depends on when intel decides to start pushing alderwood and grantsdale. if the push them early, both companies will be forced to put out bridged solutions as a stopgap measure. if they are pushed back (as I suspect they will be) to late spring- early summer, both companies will probably have bridgeless solutions ready.
 
Hell so basically we are returning to PCI videocards. I havent had much time to keep up with the AGP phase out, Work sucks it gets in the way of my fun time.
 
im just gunna get the new agp one then, the upgrading of computers will never end so you just need to give up and buy what you can afford when you want.
 
Do you guys honestly think that these new standards are gonna replace AGP and ATX etc overnight?

Its gonna be lengthy process...they will be phased out over time...it wont be "go to bed one night get up in the morning" and all AGP/ATX cards and cases will have ceased to exist...dont worry just yet...and besides who wants 1st generation hardware anyway?? Thats just asking for trouble...if anything it safer to wait for at least 2nd or 3rd gen stuff and then upgrade...once all the firmware is solid and the makers and developers have a real grip of whats going on...and at the current pace it shudnt take too long before the 2nd and 3rd gen PCI-e or x whatever it is is out and the new DDR modules are taking hold etc etc...that will be the time to upgrade...
 
Like I said before, 1st generation stuff doesn't always suck. This is also third generation for DirectX 9.

Remember the 9700 Pro? I'm sure you do, it's still one of the most ass kicking cards around. It was a first generation part. 'Nuff said. Athlon 64 is first generation right now, and it definately doesn't suck either.

Though if I were you, I'd wait for Socket 939. ;)
 
No you shouldn't. If you try to keep up with all the new shit being put out on the market you'll end up broke, indebt, and longing for something else new.(much like me)
 
Considering were not even utilizing everything available to AGP 8X, PCI-E will probably not be a revolution in performance FOR SOME TIME. However, do be worried about the new standard if you plan on building a new system in the next several months, as current AGP cards will be obsolete.
 
Originally posted by MemoryInAGarden
Considering were not even utilizing everything available to AGP 8X, PCI-E will probably not be a revolution in performance FOR SOME TIME. However, do be worried about the new standard if you plan on building a new system in the next several months, as current AGP cards will be obsolete.
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i wish people would stop saying that

PCI-E is more than just more bandwidth to system memory.
 
Originally posted by Brent
i wish people would stop saying that

PCI-E is more than just more bandwidth to system memory.
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Bandwidth and MHz, bandwidth and MHz...
 
Not to blow more smoke, but from I've read and all, it sounds like the GPU is really going to start carrying its own weight and do more processing on its own with pci-e. It'll be great to see the GPU rival the CPU in its own right...
 
I look at it this way. If you are ready to get a new video card now, I would say go for it. There are a lot of changes that will need to be done when switching to PCI-E (as in the motherboard. BTX? Prolly cpu and ram as an upgrade) I for one might get one more video card upgrade till the hole PCI-E and BTX come in the main stream more. I think it will be at least 1 to 1.5 year out, and by that time the next gen video should be hitting, as well better BTX and PCI-E products.
 
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