PCI-E VS PCI-E 2.0

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I am not really up on the figures but basically pci-e 2.0 can allow more data through than the original. It can also provide 150W to the card opposed to the 75W of the original. Thing is though that none of the graphics cards that are currently available will max out pci-e 1.0 so pci-e 2.0 is more a thing for the future.
 
Yah, but as morkboy just mentioned, we cannot really take advantage of PCI-E 2.0 right now just like how we take advantage of DDR3 performance over DDR2 and also SATA 300 vs SATA 150 interface on a HDD. Too bad it's not like how we went from USB 1.1 to USB 2.0 where you see a noticeable speed difference.
 
we can take advantage of PCI-E 2.0 with the Nvidia 9600GT and 8800GT graphic cards and also ATI's 3000 series cards as they support PCI-E 2.0. But the question is how good is PCI-E 2.0?
 
Draziom said:
we can take advantage of PCI-E 2.0 with the Nvidia 9600GT and 8800GT graphic cards and also ATI's 3000 series cards as they support PCI-E 2.0. But the question is how good is PCI-E 2.0?
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Can't take advantage of it because the bandwidth provided by the cards is not greater than the bandwidth that can be achieved using PCI-E 1.1.
 
Draziom said:
we can take advantage of PCI-E 2.0 with the Nvidia 9600GT and 8800GT graphic cards and also ATI's 3000 series cards as they support PCI-E 2.0. But the question is how good is PCI-E 2.0?
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bmorton18 said:
Can't take advantage of it because the bandwidth provided by the cards is not above the PCI-E 1.1 bandwidth.
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Believe it or not the current crop of video cards still can't saturate an AGP 8x bus. But AGP didn't allow for multiple video cards ala Crossfire/Sli.

Also, supporting a standard doesn't mean that the cards are actually capable of running at those speeds. See the arguments about PATA vs SATA150 vs SATA300 - drives are still not physically capable of the speeds that the interfaces allow for.
 
Would you take a performance hit, if you dumped a card meant for 2.0 into a 1.1 slot? I ran into a guy that bought a 8800GT and use to have a 7900GTX. He says he is getting worse performance since the upgrade. He has a 939 socket board running a 4800+. He has the latest drivers. His board isn't 2.0 and im sure he hasn't flashed the bios in a long time. CPU or the lack of PCI-E 2.0?
 
No there would be no loss in performance...I have an g92 8800GTS which supports 2.0 into a 1.1 slot. It's all backwards compatible. He must have something wrong elsewhere if he's getting slower performance.
 
my motherboard supports PCI-E 2.0. i have the Asus P5E board and if i bought the Nvidia 9600GT i would be capable of using the performance of PCI-E 2.0.
 
Draziom, your card has PCI-E 2.0, but it itself does not have enough data throughput to even begin to utilize the bandwidth of PCI-E 1.1 or 2.0.

It's like I have a car that can drive on both a dirt road (AGP, PCI-E 1.1) and an highway (PCI-E 2.0), but I can only drive 25mph. Now, 25mph isn't bad on a dirt road, and I can do it on the highway, but if I ever get a car that can go faster, then I can drive faster using the highway...

Ok, that analogy was pretty lame, but it works. :rolleyes:


Today's current gfx cards can't even begin to utilize PCI-E 1.1, let alone 2.0.

It's kind of like when AGP 2x came out, all of the other cards were PCI. No card on the market could saturate a PCI slot (maybe when shared with other cards), so using AGP 2x (5x faster) was just a new road to develop on.



PCI-E 1.1 1x is 250MB/s in each direction (500MB/s total)
PCI-E 1.1 4x is 1000MB/s in each direction (2000MB/s total)
PCI-E 1.1 8x is 2000MB/s in each direction (4000MB/s total)
PCI-E 1.1 16x is 4000MB/s in each direction (8000MB/s total)
PCI-E 2.0 16x is 8000MB/s in each direction (16000MB/s total)

AGP 8x is 2000MB/s download, 133MB/s upload


Hope this helps.

Here is a thread with a similar discussion:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1267024
 
I'll rather PCI-E 2.0 16X even if it is not fully utilized. At least I know the GPU is being bottlenecked :)
 
the new motherboards that support PCI-E 2.0 and a video card that is PCI-E 2.0 should be fully utilized, because if it isnt why would they advertise it as such?
 
Draziom said:
the new motherboards that support PCI-E 2.0 and a video card that is PCI-E 2.0 should be fully utilized, because if it isnt why would they advertise it as such?
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So that you'll buy the more expensive PCI-E 2.0 motherboard and/or video card thinking it will actually make difference, when really it's all just marketing.
 
That is right...you won't notice a difference at all between a slot that is PCI-E 1.1 and PCI-E 2.0...at least not for awhile.
 
Draziom said:
sounds cool. PCI-E 2.0 is superior and more advanced than PCI-E.
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This is bullshit. Someone lock this guys' account he just wants lots of posts.
Superior and more advanced? WTF are you on? It's just a higher theoretical bandwidth that will not be saturated for 10 more years. Like someone above said we're barely touching agp8x worthy bus speeds.

Seriously man stop posting like a dumbass with all your FUD to get a high ranking.
 
You need not be so offensive. Just drop the mod a PM will do or you will be the one ending up being banned, ironcially.
 
McCartney said:
This is bullshit. Someone lock this guys' account he just wants lots of posts.
Superior and more advanced? WTF are you on? It's just a higher theoretical bandwidth that will not be saturated for 10 more years. Like someone above said we're barely touching agp8x worthy bus speeds.

Seriously man stop posting like a dumbass with all your FUD to get a high ranking.
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if PCI-E 2.0 is not more advanced than PCI-E, then why would they advertise it as such? wouldn't that be false advertising? PCI-E 2.0 allows more bandwidth which is compatible with a PCI-E 2.0 motherboard. which means that it is more advanced than regular PCI-E. you dont know what your talking about. the Nvidia 9600GT and Nvidia 8800GT are 2 Graphic Cards that are PCI-E 2.0.
 
No man, it's not false advertising it's common in the computing industry. I'd call it "overzealous advertising". It sells cards.

Do you not understand that these video cards cannot saturate AGP 8x speeds? If I'm going to make an analogy for you lets say we're on a highway with a 250km/h speed limit and we have 2 cars.
One car can top out at 200 km/h and the other can top out at 220 km/h. They're not going to be slowed down provided everyone on this highway goes 250km/h or thereabout. That means if we're in 2 cars that cannot even reach one speed limit that if we put them on another highway with a 300 km/h they're not going to go any faster are they?

You're just not listening you child, if you're not going to learn and read then don't come here. We're a forum that helps eachother out, we help noobs too because they admit it and they want to learn. They don't spread FUD. AFAIK what you're saying is FUD and you need to do some research before you earn some credibility to speak.

Don't ask questions in the same statement in which you're enforcing false statements. Leave the forums please.
 
alexlyc said:
Tomshardware had a great article about PCI-E 2.0 not long ago, it depends on what video card you have and what game and resolution you play
Read it here: http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/23/crossfire_meets_pci_express/page4.html
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That article shows that PCIe 1.1 to 2.0 only has up to 0-2% gain. Also I'm glad that article touched on the overhead difference between running a card at x8 and x16 (about a 7-8% difference). This describes very well what I already knew when I chose my motherboard 1.5 years ago. If you run two cards in SLI and the motherboard drops them down to 8x8x then you're getting a loss of around 15% and a gain of 20-30% for the SLI. This is why in the earlier SLI days there was no real performance increase with SLI, but now that most motherboards can run dual 16x slots at full speed you gain back that 15%, regardless of nvidia's SLI drivers (i think people give them too much credit for the improvements with SLI performance in the past 1.5 years).

Likewise that also shows that the easiest way for a GPU to saturate the bandwidth is to have more and more lanes to reduce 'cycle' overhead, which is something not improved upon in PCIe 2.0 specifications afaik. It'd be better if they reworked the specs to have up to 1600 lanes and 1/100th the bandwidth on each lane :p
 
Draziom said:
the new motherboards that support PCI-E 2.0 and a video card that is PCI-E 2.0 should be fully utilized, because if it isnt why would they advertise it as such?
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Both the card and the motherboard *CAN* saturate a PCI-E 2.0 bus, but they never WILL. The amount of data that they need to transfer doesn't exceed 1.1 spec. The bus is not the bottleneck. You have to remember that the entire point of video RAM is to decrease bus traffic because even PCI-E 2.0 is *slooowww* compared to the bandwidth between the GPU and VRAM.

To continue with car/road analogies... It would be like expanding a four lane road to eight lanes when there are only 3 cars on the road. Theoretical max is higher, but no one cares.
 
hmm so its all marketing crap. i'd say its pretty effective marketing because i bought into it. i should go back and get a regular graphic card that doesnt support PCI-E 2.0 and get the regular PCI-E. i'll send this 9600GT back and get an 8000 series card. I thought i was getting better performance with the PCI-E 2.0. bah.
 
Heh... I feel bad for you man. It's okay. Just keep searching the search button is your friend or just shoot me PMs... You'll lose respect fast amongst the forum if questions that can be answered easily with the search button are asked. No worries though.

9600 GT is an effective gaming solution, IIRC it's pretty aggressively priced too. Why not just buy a second and go SLI if you have an SLI board? If you don't get an 8800 GTS 512 they're about 205 after rebate (look in the hotdeals forum) and your money is better spent there.

best of luck to ya
 
why would i lose respect amongst the forum? just because i don't know much about computers? i dont have an SLI board. i'll send this 9600GT back and get a regular PCI-E like the 8600GTS or 8800GTS since my Asus P5E motherboard and 9600GT doent support the new and improved PCI-E 2.0
 
McCartney said:
Heh... I feel bad for you man. It's okay. Just keep searching the search button is your friend or just shoot me PMs... You'll lose respect fast amongst the forum if questions that can be answered easily with the search button are asked. No worries though.

9600 GT is an effective gaming solution, IIRC it's pretty aggressively priced too. Why not just buy a second and go SLI if you have an SLI board? If you don't get an 8800 GTS 512 they're about 205 after rebate (look in the hotdeals forum) and your money is better spent there.

best of luck to ya
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i see you have a habit of insulting members of this message board and are extremely rude. OK your foul posts have been reported your gonna be taught a lesson and get banned. next time you learn to respect society.
 
LOL. Good luck with that. I'm allowed to say that. That's not an insult you just have a tendency for all of us to "spoonfeed" you. That's not what goes on here. Grow up and welcome to the real world. Lots of posts doesn't mean respect. Alot of people can help you but it seems you don't want to do research and you want us to do your work for you. We dont' do that here. Have fun. Ignored.
 
this message board is for help and not for personal research. this is why this board exists. research can be done on google but alot of people dont know all technical things. this board is for users to help one another and your rudeness has gone overboard. i'm not the first person you insulted here, you have insulted many and you need to be taught a lesson by bannage. this will teach you to respect society and to bow down to the gods. i see a few people actually encourage your bad behavior on this messageboard.

you must be a canadian because americans dont talk like you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds07XDaKhC4&feature=related
 
McCartney stop being such a god damn bigmouth and leave the new guy alone. Cut people some damn slack, jesus.
 
Draziom said:
why would i lose respect amongst the forum? just because i don't know much about computers? i dont have an SLI board. i'll send this 9600GT back and get a regular PCI-E like the 8600GTS or 8800GTS since my Asus P5E motherboard and 9600GT doent support the new and improved PCI-E 2.0
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Your 9600GT is still crazy fast. It is much much faster than an 8600GTS, and it is faster than the 8800GTS 320mb/640mb models. Only the 8800GT, 8800GTS 512mb, and 8800GTX are currently faster than the 9600GT. That, and of those three, two of them are PCI-E 2.0 anyway. And the 9600GT DOES SUPPORT PCI-E 2.0!!!! Jeez you are dense.

You will lose respect by not searching first - this is the billionth + 1 thread on PCI-E 2.0 vs. 1.1, and its getting old.

hmm so its all marketing crap. i'd say its pretty effective marketing because i bought into it. i should go back and get a regular graphic card that doesnt support PCI-E 2.0 and get the regular PCI-E. i'll send this 9600GT back and get an 8000 series card. I thought i was getting better performance with the PCI-E 2.0. bah.
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Who freaking cares what the PCI-E revision it is? Buy a fast card and be done with it! Using PCI-E 2.0 in 1.1 slot won't be any slower or faster than a 1.1 card in a 1.1 slot. So do yourself a favor, and just forget about the PCI-E revisions. Buy a card based on its performance. The 9600GT is fast, keep it!

Besides, its not all marketing crap - the cards DO support PCI-E 2.0, and so do the motherboards that are advertised at supporting it. I haven't really seen any company bragging about their cards being faster because of PCI-E 2.0....
 
kllrnohj said:
Your 9600GT is still crazy fast. It is much much faster than an 8600GTS, and it is faster than the 8800GTS 320mb/640mb models. Only the 8800GT, 8800GTS 512mb, and 8800GTX are currently faster than the 9600GT. That, and of those three, two of them are PCI-E 2.0 anyway. And the 9600GT DOES SUPPORT PCI-E 2.0!!!! Jeez you are dense.

You will lose respect by not searching first - this is the billionth + 1 thread on PCI-E 2.0 vs. 1.1, and its getting old.



Who freaking cares what the PCI-E revision it is? Buy a fast card and be done with it! Using PCI-E 2.0 in 1.1 slot won't be any slower or faster than a 1.1 card in a 1.1 slot. So do yourself a favor, and just forget about the PCI-E revisions. Buy a card based on its performance. The 9600GT is fast, keep it!

Besides, its not all marketing crap - the cards DO support PCI-E 2.0, and so do the motherboards that are advertised at supporting it. I haven't really seen any company bragging about their cards being faster because of PCI-E 2.0....
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oh cool, my motherboard is a asus P5E that has PCI-E 2.0 and the 9600GT is a PCI-E 2.0 so it will fully utilize the 2.0 feature? Mcartney said it wont and that if i put my 9600GT in a PCI-E 2.0 slot it would only run at the regular 1.1. is he right or is he wrong?
 
What feature dude? The data that is provided for PCI-E 2.0 providing 0-2 percent more is WELL within the realm of error (which is 5 percent). There is no "utilization" here. The card is going to run the same on 1.1 as it is on 2.0, there will be no tangible difference.

Where the hell did I say PCI-E 2.0 boards would make a video card at 1.1? Are you reading or are you just being childish? You need to seriously grasp the fact that 2.0 is a marketing scam and that the card, for all intents and purposes, runs just as good in 1.1 as it does 2.0 because it's not fast enough to saturate a 1.1 PCI-E bus and therefore it is going to run the same as it does in your P5E.

You need to understand, and I'm emphasizing this again, that 2.0 and 1.1 are talking about THEORETICAL BANDWIDTH of the PCI-E x16 slot, these are numbers that don't have to be met. It's like being under a larger roof, that's all. So where did I say that your P5E which has a 2.0 slot will make your card run at 1.1? The fact of the matter is, and I'm trying to say this 8 different ways so you understand, the card is "pci-e 2.0" but it doesnt' affect it's performance if it was a 1.1 since it's bandwidth isn't even close to what it needs to be to saturate.

There is no "running at regular 1.1" or 2.0 for that matter, running at rated threshold PCI-E threshold speeds isn't going to happen anytime soon, so I'll just say that it doesn't run at 1.1 or 2.0. It runs at even less than that, since these 1.1 and 2.0s aren't "firmware updates" that provide more performance.
 
Draziom said:
oh cool, my motherboard is a asus P5E that has PCI-E 2.0 and the 9600GT is a PCI-E 2.0 so it will fully utilize the 2.0 feature? Mcartney said it wont and that if i put my 9600GT in a PCI-E 2.0 slot it would only run at the regular 1.1. is he right or is he wrong?
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Neither, you are wrong. You have mistaken what Mcartney said (although he sucks at explaining in between his flames).

Your card and motherboard will be able to utilize PCI-E 2.0, but they won't benefit from it. *THAT* is what you are failing to grasp. PCI-E 2.0, while twice as fast, is completely useless to graphics cards because they don't need that much bandwidth. It would be like a USB 2.0 mouse - it only needs 1.5mb/s to properly due its job, so the extra 478.5mb/s go to waste.

Your card will run at 2.0 speeds, but it won't be any faster because of it.
 
kllrnohj said:
Neither, you are wrong. You have mistaken what Mcartney said (although he sucks at explaining in between his flames).

Your card and motherboard will be able to utilize PCI-E 2.0, but they won't benefit from it. *THAT* is what you are failing to grasp. PCI-E 2.0, while twice as fast, is completely useless to graphics cards because they don't need that much bandwidth. It would be like a USB 2.0 mouse - it only needs 1.5mb/s to properly due its job, so the extra 478.5mb/s go to waste.

Your card will run at 2.0 speeds, but it won't be any faster because of it.
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I have ADHD I have a legit excuse! Thanks for the clarification bro. I don't know how to explain things well over the intarwebs. He's really being obnoxious in treating people who are trying to help him. I flamed him once because it was well-earned, but I think I was pretty nice after.

And sheesh Dietrich, gotta go easy on me pal
 
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