pcb making help

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boardsportsrule

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 27, 2003
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ok, im trying to make a very simple PCB...basically 10 surface mount LED's in parralell, and a resistor before each one...then a ground and a 5V input... SIMPLE..but... i want to do it nicely, and by that i mean print it off and steam it and then etch it(rather then draw..that never works all that well for small things in my experience)... but what can i use to draw the PCB with such tight spec's??? the leds are 2mm by 1.25 mm, so i need to get very exact when printing....what program allows me to draw to a scale that is easily seeable??? thanks! :)
 
i don't have an answer for you but when you figure it out, post pics. i want to do the exact same thing.
 
EagleCad is probably your best bet.

you can download the freeware version which limits your board size and component number or something... but in all honesty, i have NEVER hit those limits.

http://www.cadsoft.de/freeware.htm

google for a tutorial, will take you maybe 10 or 15 minutes to pick up on.
 
plot said:
EagleCad is probably your best bet.

you can download the freeware version which limits your board size and component number or something... but in all honesty, i have NEVER hit those limits.
Click to expand...


It only limits your board size, as far as I know. I have fantastic advice for any potential pirates though: don't try to use a key from some warez site or something. You'll be in for a world of hurt. I'm not sure what exactly the criteria are, but when you go to open up a project, you'll get an error like "ERROR 252: File is corrupt. Ensure that this file has not been editted with an illegal copy of Eagle."

Just to warn you.

This software does kick ass, and if I started running into horrible board-size issues, I wouldn't think twice about buying the standard version.
 
if i hit the board size limit for a personal project though, i'd just find someone that had a full version and finish it up with theres.
 
plot said:
if i hit the board size limit for a personal project though, i'd just find someone that had a full version and finish it up with theres.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... The full version is pretty expensive ($1000 USD) if I recall. It is capable of doing boards of any size though, and with as many layers as you want. I wish *I* had friends that had the full one just laying around :)
 
fat-tony said:
Hmmm... The full version is pretty expensive ($1000 USD) if I recall. It is capable of doing boards of any size though, and with as many layers as you want. I wish *I* had friends that had the full one just laying around :)
Click to expand...

well, i only know of one person that actually has it (his work bought it for him), i played with it once... then decided i didn't need to mill a 16 layer board :p


i think gee here on the forums has it too
 
lamarth said:
What about Pad2Pad? Worse, better than Eagle?
Click to expand...

Eagle is much better. The initial learning curve is a little steeper because Eagle can do so many things. But Pad2Pad is just a PCB layout editor. With Eagle you can design the circuit and it'll create a board from that (it'll even autoroute it once you lay the board out if you want).
 
willie92 said:
Eagle is much better. The initial learning curve is a little steeper because Eagle can do so many things. But Pad2Pad is just a PCB layout editor. With Eagle you can design the circuit and it'll create a board from that (it'll even autoroute it once you lay the board out if you want).
Click to expand...


Yes, that's another thing. The autorouter for Eagle kicks ass, compared to everything else I've used (i.e. CircuitMaker).
 
plot said:
well, i only know of one person that actually has it (his work bought it for him), i played with it once... then decided i didn't need to mill a 16 layer board :p
Click to expand...

:D

We had a pretty elaborate project, and just barely started running into size issues with the 8cm x 10cm board size. With a bit of creative rearranging of parts, we managed to route it with a considerably smaller number of vias. It took a lot of work though, and had we been able to make larger boards, it would have been a lot simpler. Oh well, them's the breaks.
 
probably advantageous that it makes you use a smaller board and make it work though.
 
plot said:
probably advantageous that it makes you use a smaller board and make it work though.
Click to expand...


Yeah, in the end it worked out pretty good, but it would have saved a pile of time if we would have had even just a few extra cm^2.
 
***NOOB ALERT***NOOB ALERT***

At the risk of sounding stupid....how do you print PCB's? I understand that you guys use that program to design the board but how do you translate that design to the actual board?
 
rebelleader said:
***NOOB ALERT***NOOB ALERT***

At the risk of sounding stupid....how do you print PCB's? I understand that you guys use that program to design the board but how do you translate that design to the actual board?
Click to expand...

I've never done it before, but you print/copy your design onto a special "transfer" paper. You then iron this paper onto copperclad FR4, and voila...the traces and pads of your design are on the copper. You then have to etch away unwanted copper. This is done by swishing the board around in some copper etchant (READ: NASTY STUFF). The etchant basically dissolves all copper except the copper protected by the traces from the transfer paper. That's it. It seems simple enough, but I'm sure there are plenty of places to mess up.
 
fat-tony said:
It only limits your board size, as far as I know. I have fantastic advice for any potential pirates though: don't try to use a key from some warez site or something. You'll be in for a world of hurt. I'm not sure what exactly the criteria are, but when you go to open up a project, you'll get an error like "ERROR 252: File is corrupt. Ensure that this file has not been editted with an illegal copy of Eagle."

Just to warn you.

This software does kick ass, and if I started running into horrible board-size issues, I wouldn't think twice about buying the standard version.
Click to expand...
It's true, eagle phones home.

One time I was "just over" the legal limit with a board size, so I grabbed a warez copy and continued work. And sure enough, I had the 'corrupt file' thing happen... I lost days of work and learned my lesson really fast. It even fucks all the backup files that are in the same directory as your project.

Eventually I gave in and bought Eagle Hobby. For what it's capable of, it's a bargain...
 
rebelleader said:
***NOOB ALERT***NOOB ALERT***

At the risk of sounding stupid....how do you print PCB's? I understand that you guys use that program to design the board but how do you translate that design to the actual board?
Click to expand...

I send my PCBs off to be manufactured by turning it into gerber files (an industry standard format that any PCB program worth its salt can convert to). If you look carefully to can find some pretty good deals out there for 2 layer boards. If you are a student, then there are really good deals and easy to find.

for instance - advanced circuits(4pcb.com) has a student special of up to 60 sq. inches 2 layer board for $33 with no minimum quantity.

or if you are not a student, same deal but minimum order of 3. (so $99 total), which is pretty good.
 
My usual board shops:

olimex.com (hungary?) - $33 USD for a 2-layer, soldermasked and silkscreened eurocard (16x10cm) board. Free panelization and design merging, handy if you're making a bunch of small projects at once or making a bunch of prototype playstation modchips.

custompcb.com (kuala lumpur) - $19 each for two bare 4x5.5" boards without soldermask/silkscreen. Adding soldermask/silkscreen and panelizing cost extra. The build quality is excellent, and the boards are lead free too.

sierraprotoexpress.com (USA) - can't beat them for big boards or 4-layer stuff. ~8x10" max, 2-layer "No Touch" boards are $34 ea + $20 setup, with solder mask and silkscreen on both sides. 4-layer are $51 ea + setup. They don't allow panelization though...
 
As some people mentioned there is printer transfer paper.

A number of times though, I mapped circuits out and simulated them in pspice just to make sure everything was good, then I put it onto the board with a sharpie. Ghetto-tastic but it worked well.

rebelleader said:
***NOOB ALERT***NOOB ALERT***

At the risk of sounding stupid....how do you print PCB's? I understand that you guys use that program to design the board but how do you translate that design to the actual board?
Click to expand...
 
You don't really *need* actual printer transfer paper, although it might be a bit easier. Just use a regular laser printer to print out your design (or a copy machine if you don't have a laser available), use an iron to transfer some toner to the board, touch it up with a sharpie, and dip it in some etchant (usually ferric chloride - available at radio shack).
 
Since people are posting links, I'll mention www.sparkfun.com . I've never used it, but will be in the next few days hopefully. $2.50 per square inch, so as long as you keep board sizes small, it's super cheap. I've also got a really nice laser printer at work that I could try doing the etch it yourself method at home with.
 
fat-tony said:
Since people are posting links, I'll mention www.sparkfun.com . I've never used it, but will be in the next few days hopefully. $2.50 per square inch, so as long as you keep board sizes small, it's super cheap. I've also got a really nice laser printer at work that I could try doing the etch it yourself method at home with.
Click to expand...

i've bought an avr programmer from sparkfun... never ordered any boards, but my overall opinion of the site is that it's very good.
 
plot said:
i've bought an avr programmer from sparkfun... never ordered any boards, but my overall opinion of the site is that it's very good.
Click to expand...

I second that. My company also bought a programmer. Shipped very quickly. These guys seem to be very legit.
 
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