PC gaming is not dying so says Valves Doug Lambardi

[edborden]

You know some of these die-hard anti-console PC gamers remind me of religious nuts. no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, no matter how ridiculous the situation, they'll still believe an impossibility, that their religion is THE true religion(i.e. consoles will dissolve if anything happens to PC gaming). Hell you also probably think the stock market will crash if Nvidia/ATI stopped making high-end cards for PCs. but if anything, its entertaining to read, so thanks for that at least.

Most individuals who would say such a statement about "religious nuts" typically have their own fanatical agenda (which in the case of religion, is usually ANTI-religion). It's obvious that same thing applies here as well.

you can get used to it I guess, but a controller doesn't have the response of a high DPI mouse needed for both FPS and RTS, and of course not enough buttons for MMOs.

There are multiple ways to get a keyboard and a mouse on consoles right now, and nothing stopping Microsoft or Sony from implementing their use as a standard. Input devices don't set consoles and PC's apart. They are both the same animal.

PC gaming might not be out and out dying, but to say it is changing is just spinning the sugar coat. Less and less games are and will be continued to be released for the computer.

It's funny to think that it NEEDS a sugar coat? Why? You think it's possible or necessary to convince people here that gaming on the PC isn't "dying". It's silly. It's common knowledge that the NPD sales data doesn't take into account a huge portion of PC sales revenue, so obviously there's a disconnect there. The industry is very different now than it was just a few years ago. New markets are opening up constantly, distribution methods are changing. There is a huge market of consumers that will always game on the PC and developers know this. nVidia feeds the industry directly to sell its hardware, a huge market. The industry is growing, not "dying". Just because some developers have decided to move to multi-platform, isn't a bad thing. If those developers (like Epic) decide to just make crappy console ports for the PC, well, yeah, they aren't going to make any money on the PC platform. They aren't nearly indicative of the market as a whole.

Are consoles a major force in the industry? Absolutely! Do they fill a need for a certain subgroup of gamers that PC's can't right now? Yes! So, fine. That's not a bad thing.

I just think it's dumb to sit here and try to say, Hey, I'm a PC gamer, and you console gamers don't know squat because the PC is obviously so much better because the technology is higher-end. Or, I'm a console gamer and haha look the PC is dying, that's because my XBox is just the best thing ever. ?? This is all growing pains for an industry that is by far the most lucrative sector of the entertainment industry.

 

[WhiteGuardian]

lawl at least PC games don't kill the computer...and how can consoles even talk about PC when there's RROD all over the place. I can play games on my computer with 50 viruses running in the back ground so, gg to you.

 

[damonposey]

lawl at least PC games don't kill the computer...and how can consoles even talk about PC when there's RROD all over the place. I can play games on my computer with 50 viruses running in the back ground so, gg to you.

The xbox360 does have RROD issues(one of the reasons i got a ps3), however, PC games still crash. PC games still have display driver issues. People might not get tired of downloading nvidia beta driver 236.326.3262.3632.6326 and that last .1 is to fix one thing in a game that make the game crash, but also crashes 3 other games and gives artifacts in 5 others, but it isn't as popular as you think.

If you let me have access to your computer, I'll put some viruses/spyware on their thatll make sure you won't be playing ANY video games. meanwhile I'll give you access to my ps3, and you can try and upload whatever you want on it to make it not function. gg

Most individuals who would say such a statement about "religious nuts" typically have their own fanatical agenda (which in the case of religion, is usually ANTI-religion). It's obvious that same thing applies here as well.

Hmm, no. fanatical agendas are something I'm against as well. And I don't treat religious people differently. I hate everyone equally, religious or not. But thanks for trying to put me in a box and failing to do so.

 

[WhiteGuardian]

The xbox360 does have RROD issues(one of the reasons i got a ps3), however, PC games still crash. PC games still have display driver issues. People might not get tired of downloading nvidia beta driver 236.326.3262.3632.6326 and that last .1 is to fix one thing in a game that make the game crash, but also crashes 3 other games and gives artifacts in 5 others, but it isn't as popular as you think.

sorry still haven't had a game where it actually broke my computer.
none of my games crash
I play-
TF2
CoD4
CSS
CS 1.6
WoW
Warcraft 3
and the list goes on

I have not had to update drivers for these games since i bought them.

You sound like someone that hasn't played PC games, and just listened to generalizations.

Freezing on my Xbox and PS3 happens all the time. GTA 4 killed my PS3, I mean, a game that breaks a system? WTF. I have sent my Xbox back at least 4 times, and I don't even play it that much.

For me, consoles remain something that I use when I'm lazy and lay on my couch to play with my dong in the other hand and for when friends come over.

 

[damonposey]

sorry still haven't had a game where it actually broke my computer.
none of my games crash
I play-
TF2
CoD4
CSS
CS 1.6
WoW
Warcraft 3
and the list goes on

I have not had to update drivers for these games since i bought them.

You sound like someone that hasn't played PC games, and just listened to generalizations.

Freezing on my Xbox and PS3 happens all the time. GTA 4 killed my PS3, I mean, a game that breaks a system? WTF. I have sent my Xbox back at least 4 times, and I don't even play it that much.

For me, consoles remain something that I use when I'm lazy and lay on my couch to play with my dong in the other hand and for when friends come over.

If a game has never crashed for you, then I think its you who don't have a lot of PC gaming experience. I've gamed since 88', and while that isn't nearly as oldschool as others on this board, its a long enough time to experience PC gaming and know all of its weakness and strengths.

If you haven't updated a driver since you bought your hardware, well consoles really are right up your alley. I on the other hand like the best performance possible, so I reluctantly download new drivers and patches, and tweak ini files. but thats not my point

my point is, it's a flawed system, and its showing through more than ever as developers are reluctant to develop on the platform seeing how they can make more money in console development.

you can cite your console hardware failures just as easily as I can cite all of the PC hardware that has gone bad on me. (an OCZ powersupply just recently in the past few weeks), but you really aren't saying anything except: electronic hardware can go bad.

and yes thats right, you are defending PC gaming against someone who is more of a PC gamer than yourself.

 

[Timbowens]

You know some of these die-hard anti-console PC gamers remind me of religious nuts. no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, no matter how ridiculous the situation, they'll still believe an impossibility, that their religion is THE true religion(i.e. consoles will dissolve if anything happens to PC gaming). Hell you also probably think the stock market will crash if Nvidia/ATI stopped making high-end cards for PCs. but if anything, its entertaining to read, so thanks for that at least.

lol, not to start any shit but, THIS.

 

[Timbowens]

Um, your sig pretty much contradicts what you said. 8800GT is a great budget card that can be had for ~$150 and it can handle everything pretty well at reasonable resolutions and settings.

No it doesn't. 1. I don't have the rig anymore. Sold it. I have a ps3 and a 360 for games. 2. I got the 8800gt when it first came out which means it was pretty much top of the line. It rivaled the 8800gtx. Crysis made it cry. Sure, there where a bunch of changes you could make to make crysis run better, but who wants to do that? I don't. I want to put a game in and play it.

 

[Timbowens]

Most individuals who would say such a statement about "religious nuts" typically have their own fanatical agenda (which in the case of religion, is usually ANTI-religion). It's obvious that same thing applies here as well.



There are multiple ways to get a keyboard and a mouse on consoles right now, and nothing stopping Microsoft or Sony from implementing their use as a standard. Input devices don't set consoles and PC's apart. They are both the same animal.



It's funny to think that it NEEDS a sugar coat? Why? You think it's possible or necessary to convince people here that gaming on the PC isn't "dying". It's silly. It's common knowledge that the NPD sales data doesn't take into account a huge portion of PC sales revenue, so obviously there's a disconnect there. The industry is very different now than it was just a few years ago. New markets are opening up constantly, distribution methods are changing. There is a huge market of consumers that will always game on the PC and developers know this. nVidia feeds the industry directly to sell its hardware, a huge market. The industry is growing, not "dying". Just because some developers have decided to move to multi-platform, isn't a bad thing. If those developers (like Epic) decide to just make crappy console ports for the PC, well, yeah, they aren't going to make any money on the PC platform. They aren't nearly indicative of the market as a whole.

Are consoles a major force in the industry? Absolutely! Do they fill a need for a certain subgroup of gamers that PC's can't right now? Yes! So, fine. That's not a bad thing.

I just think it's dumb to sit here and try to say, Hey, I'm a PC gamer, and you console gamers don't know squat because the PC is obviously so much better because the technology is higher-end. Or, I'm a console gamer and haha look the PC is dying, that's because my XBox is just the best thing ever. ?? This is all growing pains for an industry that is by far the most lucrative sector of the entertainment industry.

Amen. That is what I always say after a prayer.

Less and less games will be made for a market which is shrinking. Sure, it'll always be around, but the next gen of consoles will put a big time hurting on pc gaming.

 

[WhiteGuardian]

If a game has never crashed for you, then I think its you who don't have a lot of PC gaming experience. I've gamed since 88', and while that isn't nearly as oldschool as others on this board, its a long enough time to experience PC gaming and know all of its weakness and strengths.

If you haven't updated a driver since you bought your hardware, well consoles really are right up your alley. I on the other hand like the best performance possible, so I reluctantly download new drivers and patches, and tweak ini files. but thats not my point

my point is, it's a flawed system, and its showing through more than ever as developers are reluctant to develop on the platform seeing how they can make more money in console development.

you can cite your console hardware failures just as easily as I can cite all of the PC hardware that has gone bad on me. (an OCZ powersupply just recently in the past few weeks), but you really aren't saying anything except: electronic hardware can go bad.

and yes thats right, you are defending PC gaming against someone who is more of a PC gamer than yourself.

until the day I need to send back my PC 6 times and or when my PC dies cause of a game, I'll have to disagree with you.

 

[edborden]

Amen. That is what I always say after a prayer.

Less and less games will be made for a market which is shrinking. Sure, it'll always be around, but the next gen of consoles will put a big time hurting on pc gaming.

See, that's what I mean. What's the underlying agenda here for console gamers who will just sit there pounding on a flat out untrue statement? Trying to convince you of that is pointless and obviously fruitless, so I won't waste my time because it doesn't matter anyway -- but my curiosity is why you care so much? Is this like some huge inferiority complex across the console platform? It's like some deep-seated fear that if the PC wasn't dying, then consoles would somehow be hurt and you would lose something? Or, is it that console gamers think that if the PC gaming platform does die, they're platform will somehow be strengthened?

 

[edborden]

I hate everyone equally

I'd say you put yourself in the box

 

[damonposey]

I'd say you put yourself in the box

It's comical because you mean it as an insult, but actually that's a box I'm glad to be in. I have no bias towards people regardless of race, religion or beliefs. totally in that box. Thanks for the complement.

See, that's what I mean. What's the underlying agenda here for console gamers who will just sit there pounding on a flat out untrue statement? Trying to convince you of that is pointless and obviously fruitless, so I won't waste my time because it doesn't matter anyway -- but my curiosity is why you care so much? Is this like some huge inferiority complex across the console platform? It's like some deep-seated fear that if the PC wasn't dying, then consoles would somehow be hurt and you would lose something? Or, is it that console gamers think that if the PC gaming platform does die, they're platform will somehow be strengthened?

You've got it backwards. Most of the hate on this forum comes from the anti-console PC gamer side. Console sales are in no danger, and have been steadily on the rise which recently has peaked with GTA4, a stellar game. Consoles are getting more and more priority over PC game ports as developers switch over. There's no reason for console gamers to be afraid of anything.

PC gaming is only showing good numbers with MMORPGS and the Sims, or anything blizzard. None of them are going to 'die'. However action games are getting priority on the console now, its just a fact. And that's pissing off gamers here.

Anyways, while you continue to hate, I'll be playing both console and PC games.

 

[Chombo]

It's comical because you mean it as an insult, but actually that's a box I'm glad to be in. I have no bias towards people regardless of race, religion or beliefs. totally in that box. Thanks for the complement.



You've got it backwards. Most of the hate on this forum comes from the anti-console PC gamer side. Console sales are in no danger, and have been steadily on the rise which recently has peaked with GTA4, a stellar game. Consoles are getting more and more priority over PC game ports as developers switch over. There's no reason for console gamers to be afraid of anything.

PC gaming is only showing good numbers with MMORPGS and the Sims, or anything blizzard. None of them are going to 'die'. However action games are getting priority on the console now, its just a fact. And that's pissing off gamers here.

Anyways, while you continue to hate, I'll be playing both console and PC games.

I'll do you one better. Wii sales have been dominating either console. Those games are simplistic, and your GTA4 is just a last grasp as console companies will make efforts towards an even lower common denominator.

 

[Timbowens]

See, that's what I mean. What's the underlying agenda here for console gamers who will just sit there pounding on a flat out untrue statement? Trying to convince you of that is pointless and obviously fruitless, so I won't waste my time because it doesn't matter anyway -- but my curiosity is why you care so much? Is this like some huge inferiority complex across the console platform? It's like some deep-seated fear that if the PC wasn't dying, then consoles would somehow be hurt and you would lose something? Or, is it that console gamers think that if the PC gaming platform does die, they're platform will somehow be strengthened?

You're not getting me. I have no agenda. I don't hate one, and love the other. I just got rid of a pretty good gaming rig, and I played the crap out of it. But I don't need a $2000 rig laying around, begging to swallow more money for upgrades all the time, when I can play the console and put the $2000 into a new jet ski, or a boat.

Not to mention, like I said, less and less games for the PC. Thats just a simple fact. All of these dev's are echoing it. I'm sure they are sick of piracy (yes, I know it can be done on the console, but not as easily), and I'm sure they are sick of trying to take into account a billion different possible pc configurations so their game will work smooth on everyones PC.

I love PC gaming, but the writing is on the wall.

 

[Timbowens]

I'll do you one better. Wii sales have been dominating either console. Those games are simplistic, and your GTA4 is just a last grasp as console companies will make efforts towards an even lower common denominator.

The numbers don't back your obviously anger ridden reply. There will be many more GTA's.

Wii's might be selling consoles, but as usual with Nintendo, the games suck. THe software attachment rate is low, and the Wii sits on most peoples' shelves after a month.

 

[Chombo]

The numbers don't back your obviously anger ridden reply. There will be many more GTA's.

Wii's might be selling consoles, but as usual with Nintendo, the games suck. THe software attachment rate is low, and the Wii sits on most peoples' shelves after a month.

I'm actually laughing right now.

Let me ask you something, do you think the bean counters care if the game is good or not? They don't need software sales to break even, they turn a profit on the console itself. All they care is that its selling like hot cakes.

 

[edborden]

I think too many here have bought into the media's representation of what's going on. And it's hilarious that you'd completely brush off 16 million MMO players - an entire genre that has just recently been developed and exploded. If some gamers are getting angry because UT and Assassin's Creed ended up being crappy ports -- those games sucked anyway, why get upset over it. Yeah, GTA4, Mass Effect will take a few more months to get to the PC, and that's because the console market is bigger and the developers that spend $30M on console licenses need to do a big console launch to re-coup the cost. So, go buy Mass Effect tomorrow and GTA4 in a few months.

The very fact that this "issue" is so widely debated proves that there is obviously a market for PC games. That is all that's needed to prove there will always be someone there to fill the demand. PC Gamers : The industry wants your money. Don't worry.

 

[Chombo]

I think too many here have bought into the media's representation of what's going on. And it's hilarious that you'd completely brush off 16 million MMO players - an entire genre that has just recently been developed and exploded. If some gamers are getting angry because UT and Assassin's Creed ended up being crappy ports -- those games sucked anyway, why get upset over it. Yeah, GTA4, Mass Effect will take a few more months to get to the PC, and that's because the console market is bigger and the developers that spend $30M on console licenses need to do a big console launch to re-coup the cost. So, go buy Mass Effect tomorrow and GTA4 in a few months.

The very fact that this "issue" is so widely debated proves that there is obviously a market for PC games. That is all that's needed to prove there will always be someone there to fill the demand. PC Gamers : The industry wants your money. Don't worry.

I think I am going to buy Mass Effect in a few days just to make sure there aren't some activation issues like Bioshock. I am really looking forward to it. I honestly don't mind ports, as long as they are done well. Splinter Cell was one of my favorite games.

 

[Frostex]

You know some of these die-hard anti-console PC gamers remind me of religious nuts. no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, no matter how ridiculous the situation, they'll still believe an impossibility, that their religion is THE true religion(i.e. consoles will dissolve if anything happens to PC gaming). Hell you also probably think the stock market will crash if Nvidia/ATI stopped making high-end cards for PCs. but if anything, its entertaining to read, so thanks for that at least.

I don't get it...

I post:

Consoles just leech, they leech technology, they leech ideas, they leech development and they kind of package it so it appears more affordable and then cram it full of PR.

and then back it up by giving examples:

When you look at the xbox360 and you see it has PC hardware in it, and its made by a company who only have all this money because of the PC platform, and it's using API's built specifically for the PC, and is adapting all the features a PC has had for years.

Unless you think that a console development team can magically throw together their own variants of these things, built from the ground up, at no extra cost, and to the same degree of quality, you're totally mad.

I just think it's dumb to sit here and try to say, Hey, I'm a PC gamer, and you console gamers don't know squat because the PC is obviously so much better because the technology is higher-end. Or, I'm a console gamer and haha look the PC is dying, that's because my XBox is just the best thing ever. ?? This is all growing pains for an industry that is by far the most lucrative sector of the entertainment industry.

I think the only reason PC gamers care about the consoles at all is the influence they have on PC gaming, all these shoddy ports and multiplatform developed games are developed for the lowest common denominator (console) and us PC users get lumped with lower quality titles.

 

[eggrock]

I think the only reason PC gamers care about the consoles at all is the influence they have on PC gaming, all these shoddy ports and multiplatform developed games are developed for the lowest common denominator (console) and us PC users get lumped with lower quality titles.

IMO you're right. It's not a problem with games made for the console, or consoles, or people that play console games--it's a problem with the port to PC. PC gamers should punish companies that put out shitty ports by not purchasing their software. (Sounds great, but people will pirate the games instead which fucks all of us PC gamers in the end.)

 

[damonposey]

I'll do you one better. Wii sales have been dominating either console. Those games are simplistic, and your GTA4 is just a last grasp as console companies will make efforts towards an even lower common denominator.

You're not making a relevant point here. I mean I see how you're attempting to 'get me' by saying wii sales dominate ps3 and xbox360 in sales, but I don't see how that helps the case for PC gaming. I guess you've resorted to attacking consoles with other consoles because you've ran out of ammo. now thats funny.

 

[edborden]

IMO you're right. It's not a problem with games made for the console, or consoles, or people that play console games--it's a problem with the port to PC. PC gamers should punish companies that put out shitty ports by not purchasing their software. (Sounds great, but people will pirate the games instead which fucks all of us PC gamers in the end.)

Pirating is the same to a publisher as not getting sold, so I'd say the effect is the same. And actually, that's another argument being had right now -- is it really that piracy is so bad, or are the games just really crappy and no one wants to pay for them? Either way, this is a problem that publishers will eventually solve.

As far as console - PC ports, tell me the games that you were really disappointed had a bad console - PC port. I'm looking for games that you were just flat out awesome games that ended up sucking for the PC. I know there are a few, for sure, and I'm curious to see what games exactly you guys were disappointed with, but I think there are fewer quality titles that this happened with than you think.

For myself, I love Team Multiplayer FPS and RTS. Both genres the console has nothing for me. Halo is the closest contender, but it doesn't have the gameplay of Battlefield, IMO, nor does it have the player support.

 

[Chombo]

You're not making a relevant point here. I mean I see how you're attempting to 'get me' by saying wii sales dominate ps3 and xbox360 in sales, but I don't see how that helps the case for PC gaming. I guess you've resorted to attacking consoles with other consoles because you've ran out of ammo. now thats funny.

Sigh. What I was trying to point out was that none of the markets are in danger regardless of relative performance. I was hoping I could put it in terms that you could understand. I can see that attempt failed as well.

 

[Silus]

You've got it backwards. Most of the hate on this forum comes from the anti-console PC gamer side. Console sales are in no danger, and have been steadily on the rise which recently has peaked with GTA4, a stellar game. Consoles are getting more and more priority over PC game ports as developers switch over. There's no reason for console gamers to be afraid of anything.

PC gaming is only showing good numbers with MMORPGS and the Sims, or anything blizzard. None of them are going to 'die'. However action games are getting priority on the console now, its just a fact. And that's pissing off gamers here.

So, what you're saying here is that PC Gamers can't be pissed (what you called hate for some absurd reason...) about the quality decrease of their games, which is no doubt caused by the wave of crappy console ports that they've been getting for a while ?

I find that laughable really...

I've said it many times. I have nothing against consoles, because I believe they have their place in the market. However, when this "interest shift" starts messing with the quality of the games I buy, I certainly have every right to be pissed about it, especially since PC Gamers were the ones that made the companies what they are today and we're only asking for the same quality standards, that our games had before this "console port" trend started. Not much to ask really...

I perfectly understand why they prioritize consoles, since it's a wider market, that appeals to more people and thus is more profitable. Everything would be ok with me IF developers actually made an effort to create proper PC games, instead of the crappy console port, with simplified menus, extremely low number of customization options, low res textures... (the list goes on). Since they don't, PC Gaming is suffering (though surely not dying) and it certainly is not because of piracy, which is their scapegoat these days.

 

[edborden]

Frostex, I'm not sure that your technology argument is relevant, though. Are consoles using PC technology? Yes, that's not going to be disputed, and in fact it shows what a console is.. A computer that is configured and sold as a gaming appliance. But so what? No, consoles don't drive technology forward, but that's because they don't need to. They have to keep the cost low on the hardware side to hit the mass market price point. But does any of this hurt the PC or hurt technology innovation? Noooo -- the hardware end of the PC gaming market is huuuge, that's what drives the technology, besides the fact that there are a million other industries that use cutting edge hardware.

 

[edborden]

So, what you're saying here is that PC Gamers can't be pissed (what you called hate for some absurd reason...) about the quality decrease of their games, which is no doubt caused by the wave of crappy console ports that they've been getting for a while ?

I find that laughable really...

I've said it many times. I have nothing against consoles, because I believe they have their place in the market. However, when this "interest shift" starts messing with the quality of the games I buy, I certainly have every right to be pissed about it, especially since PC Gamers were the ones that made the companies what they are today and we're only asking for the same quality standards, that our games had before this "console port" trend started. Not much to ask really...

I perfectly understand why they prioritize consoles, since it's a wider market, that appeals to more people and thus is more profitable. Everything would be ok with me IF developers actually made an effort to create proper PC games, instead of the crappy console port, with simplified menus, extremely low number of customization options, low res textures... (the list goes on). Since they don't, PC Gaming is suffering (though surely not dying) and it certainly is not because of piracy, which is their scapegoat these days.

You can't get "mad" at a developer for making a business decision, though. They make the choice to make a crappy PC port, so they make squat in the PC market. They've made that choice. You might as well think of that game as not even being available for you - because you hate it anyway. Concentrate on the games that ARE made for the PC.

Consider the shooter genre, even. This is a hugely popular genre, obviously. A lot of exclusive console games, but do you even care to play any of them? Army of Two got so many bad reviews, and so did Haze. On the PC side, we get Crysis as an exclusive. The game sucked. So, who cares what platform they make this stuff for, it matters whether it's good or not. I've got pleeeenty of shooters on the PC that are good : everything Valve does, Battlefield, Bioshock, COD4.

On the console there's Halo and Gears of War, both have been ported, what did you guys think of them? Any good as a port? Missing anything if you didn't play them?

 

[Chombo]

You can't get "mad" at a developer for making a business decision, though. They make the choice to make a crappy PC port, so they make squat in the PC market. They've made that choice. You might as well think of that game as not even being available for you - because you hate it anyway. Concentrate on the games that ARE made for the PC.

Consider the shooter genre, even. This is a hugely popular genre, obviously. A lot of exclusive console games, but do you even care to play any of them? Army of Two got so many bad reviews, and so did Haze. On the PC side, we get Crysis as an exclusive. The game sucked. So, who cares what platform they make this stuff for, it matters whether it's good or not. I've got pleeeenty of shooters on the PC that are good : everything Valve does, Battlefield, Bioshock, COD4.

On the console there's Halo and Gears of War, both have been ported, what did you guys think of them? Any good as a port? Missing anything if you didn't play them?

I played Halo 1 on PC. It wasn't great but it wasn't bad either. Kind of generic.

 

[damonposey]

So, what you're saying here is that PC Gamers can't be pissed (what you called hate for some absurd reason...) about the quality decrease of their games, which is no doubt caused by the wave of crappy console ports that they've been getting for a while ?

No, it isn't.

Ok now my turn to ask a ludicrous question. So, let me get this straight. You like to dress up like a ballerina and dance to your Kenny G cd collection?

All I'm saying is theres a lot of...pissed-offed-ness coming from PC gamers in this forum. I'm not saying its unwarranted to be upset, but taking low blows and insulting console gamers and the console platforms is just juvenile.

It's not like Consoles deliberately kicked PCs in the nuts, PC gaming has kicked itself in the nuts. you need to realize that.

 

[phide]

Nobody's blaming consoles entirely for the somewhat-sorry state of PC gaming at the moment. There are many contributing factors, but aren't consoles the most significant factor?

I think denying that is an exercise in ridiculousness, don't you agree?

 

[damonposey]

as much as i like exercising ridiculously, yes of course thats true.

 

[milkweg]

It's not like Consoles deliberately kicked PCs in the nuts, PC gaming has kicked itself in the nuts. you need to realize that.

Yep, by releasing too many bug infested games and annoying the hell out of people with DRM and other BS. They have scared the masses away but there will always be PC gaming for the, um, discerning gamer. I don't think most people would tolerate a 6hr. install procedure like I did the other night installing X-Plane9. Turned out my Samsung DVD-RW needed a firmware update as it was only reading at half it's rated speed. That still means a 3hr. install procedure for X-Plane9 and still an intolerable amount of time for most people. If it wasn't for installing X-Plane9 I would have never noticed that my DVD-RW drive was reading disks that slow. Fooking Samsung.

 

[phide]

And so I'd guess that the major factors impacting PC development today are, in the order of most influential to least influential:

1) Consoles, specifically the X360 and the PS3, which are the most PC-like and comparable of the three major consoles. I don't really believe the Wii affects the PC side of things much at all (which is probably one reason why I like it, among others -- it exists in its own space rather than attempting to mimic the PC and cannibalize on its market)

2) Development costs, which leads to publishers banking on sequels to heavy-hitter IPs and being less prone to finance projects based on new IPs or projects that are risky/adventurous/innovative. Few independent studios have the clout to really innovate without risking the loss of publisher backing, which obviously just leads to more generic, cookie-cutter PC games that nobody really wants to buy (constant rehashes on consoles don't seem to suffer from this effect: see the popularity of Halo 3, GTA4, Resident Evil 47 and so on).

3) Piracy, which is both a scapegoat and a real issue for developers/publishers. This has led to the mass implementation of anti-consumer means of copy protection, which has no doubt led to an increase in piracy (shocking).

 

[edborden]

And so I'd guess that the major factors impacting PC development today are, in the order of most influential to least influential:

1) Consoles, specifically the X360 and the PS3, which are the most PC-like and comparable of the three major consoles. I don't really believe the Wii affects the PC side of things much at all (which is probably one reason why I like it, among others -- it exists in its own space rather than attempting to mimic the PC and cannibalize on its market)

2) Development costs, which leads to publishers banking on sequels to heavy-hitter IPs and being less prone to finance projects based on new IPs or projects that are risky/adventurous/innovative. Few independent studios have the clout to really innovate without risking the loss of publisher backing, which obviously just leads to more generic, cookie-cutter PC games that nobody really wants to buy (constant rehashes on consoles don't seem to suffer from this effect: see the popularity of Halo 3, GTA4, Resident Evil 47 and so on).

3) Piracy, which is both a scapegoat and a real issue for developers/publishers. This has led to the mass implementation of anti-consumer means of copy protection, which has no doubt led to an increase in piracy (shocking).

1) The gaming market is not the PC's market. Consoles existed before the PC as a gaming platform. The point I've been trying to make is that consoles fill a legitimate need that PC's do not. The line has always been there, it's just that consoles have broader appeal, so that market has grown bigger. The PC gaming market isn't shrinking.

2) Development costs for console games are far higher than PC games, because console developers have to pay for the console licenses. The problem of innovation is not a platform problem. And I'd disagree that sequels for the PC are somehow affected by a blanket of suckage that consoles aren't. GTA started on the PC and has never been console exclusive. All of Valve's and Blizzard's franchises are multiple sequels, all very good.

3) Piracy is definitely a problem for the PC. Publishers that want to fill an obvious market need from PC gamers will find ways to do it, though. Case in point : Steam. Piracy is unfortunately a byproduct of the open platform, but the open platform is a big advantage.

 

[Silus]

You can't get "mad" at a developer for making a business decision, though. They make the choice to make a crappy PC port, so they make squat in the PC market. They've made that choice. You might as well think of that game as not even being available for you - because you hate it anyway. Concentrate on the games that ARE made for the PC.

I can and I am, with every right to. And I show it by not buying their game. And I already concentrate on games that ARE made for the PC. Except for Rainbow Six Vegas (and perhaps Oblivion too), all my games were PC Games first and console games later.

 

[Chombo]

I am really hoping that the independent devs like GSC really take advantage of the big devs heading to cross platform market.

 

[Silus]

No, it isn't.

Ok now my turn to ask a ludicrous question. So, let me get this straight. You like to dress up like a ballerina and dance to your Kenny G cd collection?

All I'm saying is theres a lot of...pissed-offed-ness coming from PC gamers in this forum. I'm not saying its unwarranted to be upset, but taking low blows and insulting console gamers and the console platforms is just juvenile.

It's not like Consoles deliberately kicked PCs in the nuts, PC gaming has kicked itself in the nuts. you need to realize that.

Reading comprehension problems FTL

Did you actually read my comments ? I pretty much placed consoles aside, because they have their place in the market and blamed the developers directly. I did not attack console gamers...

And your comments about PC Gaming kicking itself in the nuts, only make sense if you are referring to former PC developers, focusing exclusively on consoles now.

And yes, your question is ludicrous...actually not ludicrous...just stupid...

 

[Silus]

1) The gaming market is not the PC's market. Consoles existed before the PC as a gaming platform. The point I've been trying to make is that consoles fill a legitimate need that PC's do not. The line has always been there, it's just that consoles have broader appeal, so that market has grown bigger. The PC gaming market isn't shrinking.

2) Development costs for console games are far higher than PC games, because console developers have to pay for the console licenses. The problem of innovation is not a platform problem. And I'd disagree that sequels for the PC are somehow affected by a blanket of suckage that consoles aren't. GTA started on the PC and has never been console exclusive. All of Valve's and Blizzard's franchises are multiple sequels, all very good.

3) Piracy is definitely a problem for the PC. Publishers that want to fill an obvious market need from PC gamers will find ways to do it, though. Case in point : Steam. Piracy is unfortunately a byproduct of the open platform, but the open platform is a big advantage.

1) You missed his point. Consoles existed before, but, with the exception of a couple of games (like fighting games: Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, etc), games for each platform were quite different. However, "next-gen" consoles such as the 360 and PS3 are nothing more than a standard hardware configuration of a PC (low-end PC at this point in time) and games that were made exclusively for the PC, are now made for these consoles aswell and shockingly enough, they are done for consoles FIRST. This has an impact on the PC side of things, since why will people buy a PC Game, if they already played it on the console ? Just look at the Mass Effect threads as an example. Many people are saying they won't pick it up, because even though they play PC Games often (and some even prefer it over consoles), they already played the console version of the game.

2) You certainly picked a very bad example. GTA started on the PC, yet the latest installments started on consoles FIRST and as I explained in the point above, this hurts the PC side of things.

3) Piracy is a problem, but not the root of problems that some developers use as the sole reason for their "interest shift" to consoles. They should be blaming the quality of their games, specifically when talking about console ports, which, at a lack of better words, completely SUCK.

 

[phide]

Consoles existed before the PC as a gaming platform.

I disagree. The world of home electronic gaming pretty much happened simultaneously between IBM PCs and early consoles (Ataris and the Odyssey), though naturally I assume the cheaper 'consoles' were vastly more popular.

The problem of innovation is not a platform problem.

It is when users of a given platform have higher expectations for innovative products. I don't believe console gamers expect innovative products as much as PC gamers -- I think they just want good, solid products.

GTA started on the PC and has never been console exclusive.

I'm talking about popularity mainly. Informally compare and contrast the popularity of new GTA releases on the PC versus those on the consoles. When GTA4 gets released for the PC, I can pretty much guarantee you'll see one or two threads here about it not that don't run longer than a few pages.

I think PC gamers are less receptive toward sequels than console gamers, where most IPs seem to get more popular with each new sequel. I'd expect that the next GTA game will be the single-most anticipated console title of all time despite probably not being much different a game at all than GTA4 (or GTA3 even). Why?

 

[Frostex]

Frostex, I'm not sure that your technology argument is relevant, though. Are consoles using PC technology? Yes, that's not going to be disputed, and in fact it shows what a console is.. A computer that is configured and sold as a gaming appliance. But so what? No, consoles don't drive technology forward, but that's because they don't need to. They have to keep the cost low on the hardware side to hit the mass market price point. But does any of this hurt the PC or hurt technology innovation? Noooo -- the hardware end of the PC gaming market is huuuge, that's what drives the technology, besides the fact that there are a million other industries that use cutting edge hardware.

My point (or more accurately, my predicition) was people keep blurinting out that it's the death of PC's blah blah blah, and I'm simply arguing that for everyones sake you better fucking hope that isn't true.

The PC market drives forward gaming, and all the relevant technology advances which allow us the fantastic games we see today. We've never ever seen any real advancement from consoles.

PC's are always one step ahead, we have others arguing that they're only good for MMO's and RTS game etc, guess what MMO's are evolving to become some of the biggest games now because we have the technology in the average PC to do it, and why not have thousands of players on a persistant server, that's gaming to the nth degree.

If we tried to run an MMO on the Xbox360 in anything other than "looks like it's been shit out of a camel" mode, it would run like complete crap.

And when intergrated physics become a reality consoles will be there first, and when full 3d monitors become a reality it will be PC's that do it first, and common home virtual reality and then entire social network simulators and on and on and on, PC's will always be there first adapting into strange new waters while consoles trail behind copying all the while. Look at how everything in the gaming world has evolved, look at how things have happened in the past and it will give you a good idea of how to build a trend of how this all works. You dont need to be in the IT business long to notice that everything cycles quite nicely and is mostly predictable.

I can and I am, with every right to. And I show it by not buying their game. And I already concentrate on games that ARE made for the PC. Except for Rainbow Six Vegas (and perhaps Oblivion too), all my games were PC Games first and console games later.

I'm with you on this one, vote with your wallet, I'm happy for people like Epic to move out of the PC gaming industry if they're going to bow down to the console crowd and develop primarily for them, leaving us with lower quality games, as much as it pains me to see them go that route, if that's their choice then so be it, I will happily spend my money with other people and they can join the ever saturated console market.

 

[Netrat33]

It is when users of a given platform have higher expectations for innovative products. I don't believe console gamers expect innovative products as much as PC gamers -- I think they just want good, solid products.

What?! He was right, People as a WHOLE don't support innovation in designs.

I'm talking about popularity mainly. Informally compare and contrast the popularity of new GTA releases on the PC versus those on the consoles. When GTA4 gets released for the PC, I can pretty much guarantee you'll see one or two threads here about it not that don't run longer than a few pages.

Doubt it. The last 2 didn't sell very well.

I think PC gamers are less receptive toward sequels than console gamers, where most IPs seem to get more popular with each new sequel. I'd expect that the next GTA game will be the single-most anticipated console title of all time despite probably not being much different a game at all than GTA4 (or GTA3 even). Why?

heh what?!
Unreal 1, 2, Tournaments
Quake 1, 2, 3, 4
Doom 1, 2, 3
Call of Duty 1, 2, 4
The constant request for Starcraft, Diablo and warcraft sequals
Requesting more Mechwarrior
Half Life series/episodes
Fallout
Baldur's gate

I can go on but sequals are just as gobbled up for PC exclusives.