PC Crashes During Certain Games

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x`gamma

n00b
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Nov 12, 2004
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15
Hi,

I've been having problems with my PC for the past little while. I built the system back in November. The problem is that during certain games, my PC will completely freeze, with sound looping, and require a manual shutdown. Sometimes after this shutdown, if I try to power it up again immediately, the LEDs will turn on, then the machine will turn off again. This only happens while playing Counterstrike Source, or Need for Speed Most Wanted. Other games such as NHL2006, Quake 4, Age of Empirse 3, etc...it doesn't crash. One of my friends suggested getting a new PSU, which I am doing this afternoon, as it is generic branded.

I've tried going from old Omega drivers to the newest Omega drivers (both the latest), and back to the Catalyst drivers. Using the newest omega, it would crash sooner, so I tried the Catalyst, and it'll crash anywhere from 2 to 20 minutes into the game.

Once in a while, I'll get a BSOD when I plug in USB devices as well.

Any suggestions would be helpful.

Here's what I'm running

ABIT KU8 ULi Socket 754 ATX Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 3700 ClawHammer Core Socket 754 CPU
Radeon 9800 Pro
Ultra 512MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz CL3
OCZ Value Series 512MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz
Hitachi 250GB Serial ATA HD 7200/8MB/S-ATA-150
Western Digital 80GB ATA HD
LITEON BLACK/BEIGE 16X DVD BURNER



Thanks.
 
PSU is my first guess as well. If thats not it, you have 2 different types of memory in it? Try pulling one of the memory sticks out and try making it crash (maybe they're conflicting somehow, just guessing).

Also look to see if the Mobo has a newer bios (and look into whats changed in it, maybe it's a mobo problem that a bios can address).
 
Well, I picked up a Thermaltake TR2-470W PSU yesterday, put it in, and the same problem still occurs. I reinstalled all my drivers to the latest, but to no avail. I'm borrowing a friend's 9800 pro tonight to give that shot.

Any other ideas, if that doesn't work?
 
Test your Memory with Memtest86+.
Any errors and you've found at least one problem.

Luck......... :D
 
I forgot to mention that I ran it overnight last night (memtest86+). No errors. :(
 
x`gamma said:
No errors. :(
Click to expand...
You mean: "No errors. :D "

  • Have you updated the BIOS to the most recent version?
  • Did you use any means of ESD protection when you built your system (if you built it)?
  • Are both memory modules rated for the same timings? If not, force the slower timings in BIOS.
  • Do you have your cpu oc'd?
As far as your new PSU goes, it's rated at 14A (168W) and 15A (180W) peak for the +12V rails.


This is a question for everyone: Would 2 HDD's, 1 optical, and a 9800Pro be straining that second rail?
 
DejaWiz said:
This is a question for everyone: Would 2 HDD's, 1 optical, and a 9800Pro be straining that second rail?
Click to expand...

Nope.

Try the 9800Pro first. The best bet is that it is a graphics card/driver issue. Unless I missed it, you never told us what graphics card you accually had. ??? But also look into the BIOS update for the motherboard.
 
DejaWiz said:
You mean: "No errors. "

Have you updated the BIOS to the most recent version?
Did you use any means of ESD protection when you built your system (if you built it)?
Are both memory modules rated for the same timings? If not, force the slower timings in BIOS.
Do you have your cpu oc'd?
As far as your new PSU goes, it's rated at 14A (168W) and 15A (180W) peak for the +12V rails.


This is a question for everyone: Would 2 HDD's, 1 optical, and a 9800Pro be straining that second rail?
Click to expand...

BIOS: Not yet updated
ESD: None used
Memory Timings: The OCZ is rated at 3-4-4-8, while the ultra runs at 2.5-4-4-8
OC'D: Nope


metallicafan said:
Nope.

Try the 9800Pro first. The best bet is that it is a graphics card/driver issue. Unless I missed it, you never told us what graphics card you accually had. ??? But also look into the BIOS update for the motherboard.
Click to expand...


I listed my graphics card in the specs in the original post. It's currently a 9800 Pro as well. That's what I'll try first when I get home from work, then we'll see.
 
x`gamma said:
  • BIOS: Not yet updated
  • ESD: None used
  • Memory Timings: The OCZ is rated at 3-4-4-8, while the ultra runs at 2.5-4-4-8
  • OC'D: Nope
Click to expand...
BIOS: Definitely update your BIOS. ;)

ESD: naughty, naughty! :p

Memory timings: make sure the BIOS isn't forcing the OCZ to run at 2.5 due to SPD from the Ultra.

OC'd: Well why not?!?!?!?! :D
 
metallicafan said:
DejaWiz said:
This is a question for everyone: Would 2 HDD's, 1 optical, and a 9800Pro be straining that second rail?
Click to expand...
Nope.
Click to expand...
Been thinking more on this..... According to this article, a 9800XT drawn between 44 and 90 watts. The Pro is almost identical, except for a little lower core and memory clocks as well as 2 more Vertex Pipes for the Pro.

Add 2 HDD's (~35W each) and an optical (~18W) to that, and we're in the neighborhood of 132 to 187 watts (11 to 15.6 Amps) continuous draw.

Is that TT 470W pumping out enough combined +12V continuos amps for everything?
 
I had the same problem when I d/led this bios update from asus. then checked by BIOS to see why it's crashing the voltage settings for most of my stuff are higher than how much I set em to. Don't know how that happened but I just took of that battery to reset the mobo then restore the BIOS to the way I set it in the beginning. Try that. I think it's just your BIOS if not then memory.

-Oh just saw your memory timings do what dejawiz said
 
Thanks for the help guys. I'll give everything a shot and let you know.

@DejaWiz about OC'ing. I just have stock cooling ATM, and my machine idle's at 55-60 (yech). I'll consider it once I get some better cooling :p
 
DejaWiz said:
Been thinking more on this..... According to this article, a 9800XT drawn between 44 and 90 watts. The Pro is almost identical, except for a little lower core and memory clocks as well as 2 more Vertex Pipes for the Pro.

Add 2 HDD's (~35W each) and an optical (~18W) to that, and we're in the neighborhood of 132 to 187 watts (11 to 15.6 Amps) continuous draw.

Is that TT 470W pumping out enough combined +12V continuos amps for everything?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure on the exact specs of that PSU but 470W, assuming that the PSU is stable, is more than enough for the hardware he has. Hard drives wont use 35W of power. For example that 80GB, probably uses something like .65A - 5V and .35A - 12V power. So if you take (.65 * 5) + (.35 * 12) = 7.45W of total power. And only about 4W of that is coming from the 12V rail.

I also recently had a post about the power draw of a AGP card and I was told that the AGP slot uses 3.3V and 5V to power the card, so an AGP card should not use much 12V power either. So the PSU should not be a problem as long as it is stable. This is my understanding at least, someone please correct me if I am wrong.

DejaWiz said:
Memory timings: make sure the BIOS isn't forcing the OCZ to run at 2.5 due to SPD from the Ultra.
Click to expand...

This would be a good thing to check indeed, however if the OP ran memtest overnight and got no errors then the RAM shoudnt be the problem either.

Chances are you have some sort of video card problem.
 
metallicafan said:
I'm not sure on the exact specs of that PSU but 470W, assuming that the PSU is stable, is more than enough for the hardware he has. Hard drives wont use 35W of power. For example that 80GB, probably uses something like .65A - 5V and .35A - 12V power. So if you take (.65 * 5) + (.35 * 12) = 7.45W of total power. And only about 4W of that is coming from the 12V rail.

I also recently had a post about the power draw of a AGP card and I was told that the AGP slot uses 3.3V and 5V to power the card, so an AGP card should not use much 12V power either. So the PSU should not be a problem as long as it is stable. This is my understanding at least, someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...
The 9800 Pro requires a 12V Molex plug connected to it = +12V rail. ;)

As for the hard drives, I did some more digging. The 80GB would need about 1.5A to spin up (0.8 running) and the 250GB would need aboout 2A to spin up (1.25 running) from the 12V rail. 42W total for spin up, 25W total for running. The Optical Drive would need about 18W (1.5A ) from the 12V rail.

Total is probably closer to a range of 87 to 150 watts (7.25A min to 12.5A max draw). The TT-470 psu should be fine. Sorry everyone for not digging into depth like this in my previous post.



metallicafan said:
This would be a good thing to check indeed, however if the OP ran memtest overnight and got no errors then the RAM shoudnt be the problem either.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I saw that. Although it never hurts to check anyway.
 
DejaWiz said:
As for the hard drives, I did some more digging. The 80GB would need about 1.5A to spin up (0.8 running) and the 250GB would need aboout 2A to spin up (1.25 running) from the 12V rail. 42W total for spin up, 25W total for running. The Optical Drive would need about 18W (1.5A ) from the 12V rail.

Total is probably closer to a range of 87 to 150 watts (7.25A min to 12.5A max draw). The TT-470 psu should be fine. Sorry everyone for not digging into depth like this in my previous post.
Click to expand...
Where are you getting these numbers? Just wondering, because Im not getting it to add up right in my head. 42W and 25W for the 2 HDs combined? Where did you get the amperage for the drives? Just curious.
Here is a pic of a 250GB SATA Hatachi Hard Drive that should be close to the one he has.
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/storage/hitachi250sata/Images/label_full.jpg
12V - .7A - Therefore it would pull about 8.4W off the 12V rail. Even if the 80GB HD is the same thats only 17W off the 12V rail. Eitherway a couple watts dont matter much i guess as he still has more than enough power on the 12V rail. Sorry for getting off topic here but . . .

DejaWiz said:
The 9800 Pro requires a 12V Molex plug connected to it = +12V rail. ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks. I didnt know that. :) That would indeed put a little more strain on the 12V rail, but since the power supply has dual 12V rails, he should be good.
 
metallicafan said:
Where are you getting these numbers? Just wondering, because Im not getting it to add up right in my head.
Click to expand...
I'm using the averages from numerous HDD ratings drives (especially Seagate, as they are generally one of the highest).

HDD1 (80GB) = 0.8A running/1.5A spin-up.
running---12 * 0.8 = 9.6W (seeking)
spin-up---12 * 1.5 = 18W

HDD2 (250GB) = 1.25A running/2A spin-up.
running---12 * 1.25 = 15W (seeking)
spin-up---12 * 2 = 24W (might actually be closer to 2.5-3.0A draw)

OD1 (LITEON) = can't remember the article I found what a typical DVD-RW draws, but I think it stated to use one and a half amps as a solid baseline, iirc.
running---12 * 1.5 = 18W

So, this means that the drives alone pull:
running = 42.6W or 3.55A
spin-up = 60W or 5A


Add in the GPU (44 to 90 W or 3.66 to 7.5 A) and we're at a total of:

7.21 amps minimum to 12.5 amps maximum draw on the +12V rail from just the HHD's, OD, and GPU.
 
Well, the video card was a no go. It just crashed as well.

Argh. no floppy drive, so i can't update my bios til my gf comes over with her USB floppy.
 
I had a somewhat similar problem back a few months, and after doing all the standard HDD, processor, RAM, etc. tests, and buying a new PSU, turned out to be my video card. RMAd my video card, haven't had another crash.

I had the same crashes as you, but I could turn the PC back up. It also happened in specific games, when the graphics got intense. I could play RTS with relatively no problem, but the instant an explosion appeared in Quake IV, or I shot too much in FEAR, got a BSOD and had to manually restart.
 
DanMattia said:
I had a somewhat similar problem back a few months, and after doing all the standard HDD, processor, RAM, etc. tests, and buying a new PSU, turned out to be my video card. RMAd my video card, haven't had another crash.

I had the same crashes as you, but I could turn the PC back up. It also happened in specific games, when the graphics got intense. I could play RTS with relatively no problem, but the instant an explosion appeared in Quake IV, or I shot too much in FEAR, got a BSOD and had to manually restart.
Click to expand...


I don't even get a BSOD, everything just freezes. As mentioned, I also swapped out my card for my friend's 9800 pro (which he uses every day), but to no avail.
 
sounds like you've gone through a long list, something I didn't see listed was to see if there is an update for your chipset drivers. I had the same issue on an older mobo back in the via133 days and a chipset driver update fixed it.
 
bigbadgreen said:
sounds like you've gone through a long list, something I didn't see listed was to see if there is an update for your chipset drivers. I had the same issue on an older mobo back in the via133 days and a chipset driver update fixed it.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I've done this as well.
 
x`gamma said:
Is it pretty safe to assume it's a motherboard problem?
Click to expand...
I would say you've narrowed it down to that quite well.

Memory - check.
PSU - check.
GPU - check.
CPU - runs windows ok, check.
Drivers - check.
update DX9C - ????
Motherboard - ???

Are you forcing any graphics setting like AA or AF for certain games or just letting the game do this for you?

And for the love of all things to be loved - get yourself an $8 anti-static wrist strap, bud. It's a cheap price to pay to ensure your expensive components will stay working the way they should. ESD is something so easy to take for granted and overlook, yet so easy to prevent. ;)
 
DejaWiz said:
I would say you've narrowed it down to that quite well.

Memory - check.
PSU - check.
GPU - check.
CPU - runs windows ok, check.
Drivers - check.
update DX9C - ????
Motherboard - ???

Are you forcing any graphics setting like AA or AF for certain games or just letting the game do this for you?

And for the love of all things to be loved - get yourself an $8 anti-static wrist strap, bud. It's a cheap price to pay to ensure your expensive components will stay working the way they should. ESD is something so easy to take for granted and overlook, yet so easy to prevent. ;)
Click to expand...

Alright. Thanks a lot for all your help.

For the record, I let the game set AA or AF.
 
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