PC crashes after exiting specific game

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Ayoralyn, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Hello!

    I have a problem with my PC freezing and crashing 5-10 seconds after I quit Grim Dawn. It doesn't happen every time, and it's not purely Grim Dawn. I can't remember right now which games, but I've had this issue with maybe 1-2 other games as well. Phantom Doctrine maybe, but I'm not sure. It hasn't bothered me too much in the past, so I didn't look into it more seriously, but the problem persists.

    Windows 10 Event Viewer shows me a Kernel-Power error 41. I've tested my harddrives with HDTune, run a benchmark on my videocard, and tested my RAM over night with MemTest86. Everything seems to be OK. I don't think it's an overheating issue either, since my PC generally runs very cool, and I monitor my temps as well. I don't get any warnings indicating a temperature issue. The PC is 3 years old.

    My next suspect in line would be my PSU. From what I've gathered googling the Kernel 41 error, people often point to the PSU as well. But people also point to it "just" being an error in Windows.

    The PSU in question is a EVGA Supernova G2 650W Gold.

    It powers the following system:

    MSI Z170-A Pro LGA1151 ATX Mainboard
    MSI GeForce GTX 970 Gaming with 4GB DDR5 RAM
    2x8 GB G. Skills RipjawsV DDR4-2400 RAM
    Intel Core i5 6600K 3.6GHz
    Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD
    Wester Digital Black 2TB 7200RPM SATA

    This has been going on for a while now, and I've been looking into it several times with no luck. I don't remember asking in here though.
     
  2. TheFlayedMan

    TheFlayedMan Limp Gawd

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    I've just been playing Grim Dawn. Lots of fun. Your PSU is a high quality one, how old is it? The issue seems more like a software problem though. I would do a clean install of the latest graphics card drivers first.
     
  3. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    It's the same as everything else in the PC, just over 3 years old, so it should really still be fine. I'll try the clean install, see if it helps any, thanks!

    Edit: In all honesty, I've been considering trying out Linux for a while now, maybe this is the time to do it if the video driver reinstall and updating other drives don't do the trick.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  4. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    In my particular cases its almost always memory related.....look up on the qvl list for that board and manually plug in some very relaxed timings listed in the qvl.....drop it to 2100 speed and use some middle of the road timings listed in the qvl and i bet the crashes go away
     
  5. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Memory problems was exactly was I thought was the problem as well. In any case, what you said seemed very technical to me, and I don't really have any knowledge about RAM at all. I found a compatibility list of what they had tested their motherboard with, and I searched the list for my RAM (I used the partnumber from the manufacturer), and I found it.

    Now when I go into my BIOS, I can see that I have some influence on the frequency. My RAM supports 2400 MHz. I can see that it's set to "Auto" and it lists them as 2133 MHz. Now if I want to change it, the list I see shows stuff like this: (It's a long list, I just picked a few)

    DDR4-2100 (21x100.00x1.00)
    DDR4-2133 (16x100.00x1.33

    DDR4-2400 (18x100.00x1.33)

    First off, is it a problem that my system is setting them to 2133 MHz when they support 2400? (I know you suggested setting them to 2133)
    Second, does the last number (1.00 & 1.33) mean what voltage they'll be getting? I didn't see any option to change that in the menu.
    Third, Can the RAM handle more, or less, voltage then manufacturer is designed them for? (Possibly a silly question)
     
  6. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    you can try higher voltages no problem..matter of fact the qvl likely lists different levels to try and they mostly go up with higher speed settings. You can try the 2400mhz of course...it might be the dam board sets lower timings with the slower speed and of course causes the problems...your going to have to learn your way thru it with trial and error as i had to do with mine. ( I had to make a few educated guess but it worked out in the end. I had my own thread here several months back and the info that helped ME the most was trying to duplicate the speed and timings listed in the qvl.) Worst case scenario is you have to do a clear cmos which on mine is done by just pushing a button on the back of the board. You have an unstable setup and it needs to be figured out;)
     
  7. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ono way of double checking your trys is firing up cpu-z and see whats its saying with current memory settings is what i always do
     
  8. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for your replies! I don't mind learning my way through it, I always like gaining new knowledge.

    Thanks for the suggestion of cpu-z, I was wanting something to monitor it.

    I did have some questions before I start fiddling though, which I hope maybe you can clarify.
    The information I'm seeing in cpu-z strikes me as curious. Under the "General" tab, it tells me I have 16GB DDR4 Dual channel memory. The NB Frequency jumps up and down in ranges from what I've seen, 800-3800. Now I don't know how the "Auto" setting in my BIOS works, but I can't imagine that it'd be changing the MHz of my RAM so often, and not just on the fly like that. Is this normal though?
    In "Timings" it says my DRAM frequency is 1066.7 MHz. That struck me as odd, but I also couldn't find a guide anywhere where I could determine what the number should be in my case.

    Does any of this look odd to you? I didn't want to start fiddling yet if there was something obvious on this screen.

    Edit: I found your thread and took a look at it. I'm guessing that the 1066.77 MHz frequency I get is per stick. It would make sense at least number wise. I'm still no understanding the bouncing numbers.

    Edit: I tried fiddling with it a bit. I removed the "Auto" in BIOS options, set it to 2400 and upped the voltage to 1.25 (It was set to something like 1.16 maybe in "Auto" mode. I guess I'll try and see what happens now in the next couple days/weeks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  9. TheFlayedMan

    TheFlayedMan Limp Gawd

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    The 1066Mhz you saw equates to 2132Mhz because it's Double Data Rate ram I think. Probably 2133Mhz but rounded. I think it's safe to run DDR4 at up to 1.35v so you should be good.
     
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  10. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Okay, my PC is still crashing. Here's what I've done so far. I saw in my BIOS setup that everything was set to Auto. I changed some of the settings.

    First I tried these settings: 2400MHz (Up from Auto 2133, to see if it was just acting weird because it wasn't running at maximum). 1.25V (Up from 1.18 which was the "Auto" setting). I kept the timings on "Auto", 15-15-15-35 (It's the RAM specifications). It still crashed.

    Then I tried lowering the MHz again to see if it'd help with a more "relaxed" setting as was suggested, but with more voltage then before. I changed it to 2100MHz and kept it at 1.25V. It still crashed.

    I then looked into the timings to try and understand a bit about it. It's still way to technical for me, but what I gathered is, the lower the numbers, the less clock cycles your RAM needs to handles certain things. So again I tried what I figured would be a more relaxed setting. I changed it to 20-20-20-40. From my very limited understanding, these numbers would tell the RAM to take more time doing its tasks. It still crashed.

    I ran another MemTest over night. It did 11 passes with no errors.

    Do I need to go even lower in terms of MHz or way higher timings?

    With my limited knowledge and understanding of especially the timings, I'm a bit at a loss as to what to try next.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  11. TheFlayedMan

    TheFlayedMan Limp Gawd

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    See if it crashes with just one stick of ram installed. Is it just crashing after playing a game?
     
  12. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    did you get those exact values from the qvl list as i suggested? Cause im more inclined to think certified speeds and timings matched to branded ram is important. take screen shots with you phone if it will help, cause none of us here have photo memory either.
     
  13. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    this is a great suggestion as well cause it could be a bad socket or ram in many causes
     
  14. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    You need to know the exact ram your dealing with and the exact settings in your qvl for you very specific board
    X9QDGZLbpUrkRsZqYINlj8cWP5issZdCkFvuWHmi1f8csyylfzqtuMLyo5PuNNwTiHB-37I_TZNrhADDBs=w1570-h450-no.png
    I plug in the lightest speed and timings just to be 100%.....16-16-16-36 and set ram to 1.4 just for the fuck of it. After doing this simple step all my memory crashes stopped. I might loose to some dont give a fuck benchmark once in a while but the dam thing works! lol Why dont you post this info us to look at for yours? I also knew form the get go i was buying the best ram being made for AM4 chipsets which doesn't mean anything for a cost grade intel board.
     
  15. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Thanks, I'll try. Would it make sense to try and switch the RAM to other ports first? Right now they're in slot 2 & 4, but I could switch them to slot 1 & 3.

    I didn't try the EXACT numbers. Problem is I don't see any timings on MSI's website. I see this:

    Q8uu1eh.png

    The part number I searched for, is the part number I got from the store where I purchased it. It's not the store part number, but part number of the RAM "bundle" I assume, since CPU-Z is giving me a different part number. I don't get any results on MSI if I search for the part number CPU-Z gives me.

    Looking at your screenshots, I can't seem to figure out if you said you changed your numbers to 16-16-16-36, or if you were me with that machine, you'd change them to that. It looks to me like they're running the other configuration, 14-14-14-34. Am I missing something there?

    From my own picture, it also seems like I'm getting different results between the 'SPD' tab and the 'Memory' tab in CPU-Z. The 'Memory' tab is reporting the numbers I manually put in in the XMP in my BIOS, but 'SPD' tab is reporting the timings the RAM is advertised as, CL15, 15-15-15-35. At least the last entry that reads XMP-2400.
    I could try and chance the RAM to 2400MHz again, and lover my voltage to 1.2v, from 1.25v. It was automatically set to 1.18v or something like that before. I only gave it a bit of extra juice because I got the impression that it wouldn't be an issue.

    And yes, it only crashes after I quite a game. And it's not any game either. I usually have Chrome running in the background, and I have a LOT of tabs open. I'm very bad at remembering to shut it down before I quit a game, but I don't remember my PC crashing if Chrome isn't running, and I just give it like 15-20 seconds to "catch its breath" after I quit, before launching Chrome. Could it be Chrome causing the issue as well?
     
  16. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    I don't know if any of this info will be helpful to you, and I apologize for it being a bit of a long post due to images:

    The first 2 pictures shows my settings (After I changed them to what you see in the last picture). The 3rd picture shows something I'm not quite sure will be usable to me. But I saw that "Hynix" was mentioned on the MSI website, and in my BIOS as well. The "Memory try it!" thing says it's supposed to increase performance and/or stability, but I don't see my RAM speed on the list, so I don't think it's anything. I wanted to include it in any case.

    jHfZonD.png

    iGgIoMD.png

    m8iN91V.png

    r50EAmq.png
     
  17. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    idk yet....i personally havent seen a real qvl list for that board yet.....of course they put it somewhere different asus does. The bios info might be helpfull in the long run
     
  18. TheFlayedMan

    TheFlayedMan Limp Gawd

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    I think to try to set the memory timings and voltage to the most stable settings and see if the crashing goes away. I assume those would be the spd jedec #7 1066Mhz 16-15-15-35-50 and set the voltage to 1.35v
     
  19. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for the suggestion. How come you assume those would be the most stable settings? And why 1.35v? I don't know if there's a simple answer to that question.
     
  20. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    what your seeing in cpu z is jdec being pulled up from rams xmp profiles.......what i cant seem to find is an actual memory qvl list for your board.....post a link will do? Otherwise we have no idea whats been tested for that board
     
  21. TheFlayedMan

    TheFlayedMan Limp Gawd

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    As primetime said they are from the ram xmp profile. I assume the slowest setting is most likely to be stable. 1.35v because it is the highest safe voltage for DDR4 and higher voltage usually is more stable than lower voltage.
     
  22. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    I honestly don't know if it's a QVL list, but I found this one. I clicked on "Memory by Skylake", since my CPU is a Skylake. My apologies if you asked for this earlier, I missed it if that's the case.

    Thanks for the explenation! So those numbers are pulled from some predetermined XMP profiles based on what RAM I have? I'll be playing with my wife tomorrow, so I'll be able to see if I can force a freeze/shutdown then. I'll try with the suggested numbers you suggested from JEDEC #7.

    Edit: Quick followup question. The numbers 16-15-15-15-35-50. The number 50, is that what CPU-Z and my BIOS settings are refering to as tRFC? "Auto" sets that to 312 or something, and 50 seems like a big change, so I didn't touch that one because I wasn't sure if that's the correct setting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  23. TheFlayedMan

    TheFlayedMan Limp Gawd

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    Go ahead and change it.
     
  24. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    it could take experimentation with 1 or both sticks 1 at a time, but should be quick to figure out. (That crash at the end be be easy to detect) dont know if you have the division 2 but it loads up 99% of memory at default lol so yea i checks your all your memory quick and its awesome to team up with.
     
  25. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    its correct......mine defaults to the faster 3200 14-14-14-34 which is super fast but not 100% stable for what ever reason.....so i backed mine down to 16-16-16-35 cause all i really care about is stability 100% and i have zero bsods since....for what its worth mine was always at weird times as well. ( like not usually in middle of a game)
     
  26. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    I tried changing it. My PC had problems starting up, and when it did I got an error message saying the overclocking settings has failed. I tried twice with the same result. For now, I've left it on "Auto" which is something like 328 or something like that. My next step will be to try and change my sticks to port 1 & 3.

    The problem is indeed easy enough to force. My problem is that for me it's not just about starting up the game and then quitting (At least it hasn't been so far). It seems like the problem only occurs if I play for at least a couple of hours. I believe I can launch and quit Grim Dawn for instance plenty of times with no issue. But if I play for like an hour or two, then it'll crash.

    Edit: Unfortunately, I can't switch my RAM sticks to port 1 & 3 due to my CPU cooler being too big. It's hovering over port 1, and the RAM has some fancy shell that makes from too big to fit. But I've removed a RAM stick and the one remaining is now in slot 2. So I can at least slowly start ruling out the ports I can use, and the sticks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  27. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    just keep in mind...one stick might be good at one setting where the other might fail.....but you know if you use conservative enough settings it wont matter....tbh i wouldn't even bother with ram like that in one of my setups unless it was free i guess...but even then you see what your in for:)
     
  28. Ayoralyn

    Ayoralyn Limp Gawd

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    Unfortunately I can't just buy new RAM. I have to stick with what I got for as long as I can :)