PC Build Assistance Request

[dearastronomer]

Hi everyone,

I've been out of the PC build world for a few years now, and could use some help in building a new PC. Below is the questionnaire, and below that are the parts I specced.

I could use help finding a microATX desktop case suitable for this system, as I'd like the system to be somewhat portable. Hence the selection of a micro ATX motherboard, low profile RAM and low profile video card.

My goal is to make a somewhat portable system with as much horsepower as I can get.
Some have said if I go with i5 processors, I can spend around $100 for the CPU with only a 10% performance hit over the i7's. That doesn't sound right, but if so, please suggest good quad core i5's.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?
I will be doing Google Hangouts, (webcam/DSLR), and the plugins eat a lot of CPU.
Additionally, I will be running python code and specialized software to perform FFT analysis of lightcurves sky surveys such as SuperWASP, 2MASS, and others.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under $1,000 with tax, shipping, and OS, less is better.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

U.S - Phoenix, AZ
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
CPU, MEM, MOBO, Case/PS, SSD, Video, DVD-RW
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
No parts recycled
6) Will you be overclocking?
No, not really.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
19" LCD, I only run at 1280x1024, so I don't need "gaming" graphics.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As soon as possible
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
I need to connect an SSD, plenty of USB 2.0 devices (I guess 3.0 is a plus), onboard video would be nice. No RAID or SLI needed.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I need to figure Windows 7 64 bit into the cost of this PC. I'll be dual booting with RHEL 6.3 64 Bit.



Parts list:

Motherboard: ASUS Rampage IV Gene LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E 3.6GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 2011 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73820

Video: EVGA 01G-P3-1302-LR GeForce 8400 GS 1GB 64-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card

SSD: OCZ Agility 4 AGT4-25SAT3-64G 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

RAM: (4X) CORSAIR 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model CMV4GX3M1A1600C11

DVD: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM

CASE/PS: Need help on this one.

As stated, if I there are suggestions on other motherboards in the micro ATX form factor, maybe even those with onboard video, I'm open to suggestions.

The i5 option I'm looking at is:

CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I52500K

MOBO: ASUS P8B75-M/CSM LGA 1155 Intel B75 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Same RAM, SSD, and DVD, as above, unless other suggestions for the SSD are good.

So, there it is. Let the debate begin. ;-) Thanks

 

[Quartz-1]

You don't need a low profile video card. Indeed, the i5 CPU you're considering has inbuilt video wholly adequate for the non-gamer.

But if you want your PC to be transportable, look at the Shuttle XPC (ITX) or Zotac ZBox (Pico-ITX).

Regardless, you're going to need a larger HDD. Either increase the size of the SSD or add in a 1-2 TB HDD.

 

[Dangman]

Neither setups are good.

Setup 1:
The whole point of going with the X79 platform is for the 32GB+ RAM support and the six-core CPU capability. Your planned X79 setup has none of that. So in other words, you're spending the extra cash on the motherboard for absolutely nothing. Also, that GPU isn't a good choice for the money either.

Setup 2:
If you're not overclocking, no real need for the 2500K unless it's significantly cheaper than the non-overclockable Core i5 CPUs. Also that mobo isn't that good either.

For both setups:
The SSD isn't that great since it's an OCZ product which means that you may have to deal with OCZ's relatively poor customer support should you have an issue. Not to mention that 64GB SSDs are generally poorer values than their 128GB counterparts since the 128GB SSDs usually cost less than 40% to 50% more but you get twice as much space and higher performance. Considering that confirmed quality and better supported SSDs aren't that much more, I don't recommend that OCZ SSD. I recommend the Samsung 830 or Crucial M4 128GB SSDs at a minimum.

That RAM is a so-so choice depending on your answer to the next question:
Which version of Windows 7 64bit do you plan on getting? Home Premium? Pro? Note that you will need to get Pro if you plan on ever using more than 16GB of RAM.

 

[dearastronomer]

You don't need a low profile video card. Indeed, the i5 CPU you're considering has inbuilt video wholly adequate for the non-gamer.

But if you want your PC to be transportable, look at the Shuttle XPC (ITX) or Zotac ZBox (Pico-ITX).

Regardless, you're going to need a larger HDD. Either increase the size of the SSD or add in a 1-2 TB HDD.

I really don't need a larger HDD. Most of my data is stored on a SAN.

As for not needing the low profile card, you are right, if I go with the i5 CPU/Mobo I don't need that card, as I can use the onboard video.

I'm sure there are tons of ITX form factor PC's out there, but what I'm really looking for is a micro-ATX case that can take (or has) a power supply that can adequately power the system.

 

[dearastronomer]

So buying a motherboard that I can do a CPU upgrade down the road isn't a good investment? You said the i5 mobo I looked at isn't that great. Got any suggestions for a mid-range non-gamer motherboard that supports i5's with integrated GPU?

The GPU isn't good for the money? it's $20.

As for the SSD, I had heard OCZ was close to Intel for quality. Guess I heard wrong. I'll look at your suggestions.

Do you have a part # for the non overclockable i5?

Windows 7 pro 64 bit. I could shave a few bucks with home premium since I only am planning to start with 16GB, but if I upgrade RAM, then I need to upgrade the OS.

Neither setups are good.

Setup 1:
The whole point of going with the X79 platform is for the 32GB+ RAM support and the six-core CPU capability. Your planned X79 setup has none of that. So in other words, you're spending the extra cash on the motherboard for absolutely nothing. Also, that GPU isn't a good choice for the money either.

Setup 2:
If you're not overclocking, no real need for the 2500K unless it's significantly cheaper than the non-overclockable Core i5 CPUs. Also that mobo isn't that good either.

For both setups:
The SSD isn't that great since it's an OCZ product which means that you may have to deal with OCZ's relatively poor customer support should you have an issue. Not to mention that 64GB SSDs are generally poorer values than their 128GB counterparts since the 128GB SSDs usually cost less than 40% to 50% more but you get twice as much space and higher performance. Considering that confirmed quality and better supported SSDs aren't that much more, I don't recommend that OCZ SSD. I recommend the Samsung 830 or Crucial M4 128GB SSDs at a minimum.

That RAM is a so-so choice depending on your answer to the next question:
Which version of Windows 7 64bit do you plan on getting? Home Premium? Pro? Note that you will need to get Pro if you plan on ever using more than 16GB of RAM.

 

[dearastronomer]

One important thing that hasn't been addressed (YET) is the case.

I'm really looking for a desktop micro-ATX case that has (or can take) a good power supply to run the above system. I'm seeing this new "plus 80" thing on a lot of power supplies. What is it?

 

[Dangman]

So buying a motherboard that I can do a CPU upgrade down the road isn't a good investment?

No. Intel's next line of Ivy Bridge-E CPUs for socket 2011 will only be 5% to 8% faster at most over current Sandy Bridge-E CPUs. So really not worth upgrading at that point. In addition, Intel isn't planning on releasing a new generation of CPUs for socket LGA 1155. As such Intel's new Haswell CPUs, due out in March to June, will be completely incompatible with all current Intel motherboards due to it using the LGA 1150 socket. So in other words, you really can't plan for a CPU upgrade these days.

You said the i5 mobo I looked at isn't that great. Got any suggestions for a mid-range non-gamer motherboard that supports i5's with integrated GPU?

My recommended budget choice would be this:
$75 - Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Intel B75 mATX Motherboard

The GPU isn't good for the money? it's $20.

If that's $20 with a rebate, then it's not $20 since you haven't recieved the rebate yet. At Newegg, that card is $32 shipped. Not a good buy considering that the faster and newer HD 6450 costs $35 shipped.

Do you have a part # for the non overclockable i5?

Core i5 3470.

Windows 7 pro 64 bit. I could shave a few bucks with home premium since I only am planning to start with 16GB, but if I upgrade RAM, then I need to upgrade the OS.

In that case, you should not be looking at 4 x 4GB of RAM at all since that means that you would have to ditch some of that RAM should you upgrade past 16GB of RAM. Start with 2 x 8GB of RAM and you'll not have to ditch any RAM:
$70 - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL 2 x 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

One important thing that hasn't been addressed (YET) is the case.

I'm really looking for a desktop micro-ATX case that has (or can take) a good power supply to run the above system.

I recommend these mATX cases:
$100 - Silverstone PS07B mATX Case
$100 - Silverstone TJ08B-E mATX Case
$110 - Fractal Design Arc Mini mATX Case
$113 - Lian Li PC-A04B Black mATX Case
$120 - Lian Li PC-A04A Silver mATX Case

I'm seeing this new "plus 80" thing on a lot of power supplies. What is it?

It basically refers to the efficiency of the PSU. For all intents and purposes, you really don't need to worry about it:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/

PSU wise, I recommend this:
$70 - SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W Modular PSU

 

[dearastronomer]

Thank you for the informative reply!

Based on some suggestions from you and others, here's the updated build:

SilverStone SST-PS07B Black Steel / Plastic MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case
SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W Modular Power Supply
Intel Core i5-3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2GHz Quad-Core w/ HD 2500 Graphics
GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3H LGA 1155 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
Windows 7 Pro - 64 Bit

W/O Shipping I'm at ~750 which is quite a bit less than my original build, even before adding on a copy of windows.

No. Intel's next line of Ivy Bridge-E CPUs for socket 2011 will only be 5% to 8% faster at most over current Sandy Bridge-E CPUs. So really not worth upgrading at that point. In addition, Intel isn't planning on releasing a new generation of CPUs for socket LGA 1155. As such Intel's new Haswell CPUs, due out in March to June, will be completely incompatible with all current Intel motherboards due to it using the LGA 1150 socket. So in other words, you really can't plan for a CPU upgrade these days.

My recommended budget choice would be this:
$75 - Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Intel B75 mATX Motherboard

If that's $20 with a rebate, then it's not $20 since you haven't recieved the rebate yet. At Newegg, that card is $32 shipped. Not a good buy considering that the faster and newer HD 6450 costs $35 shipped.


Core i5 3470.


In that case, you should not be looking at 4 x 4GB of RAM at all since that means that you would have to ditch some of that RAM should you upgrade past 16GB of RAM. Start with 2 x 8GB of RAM and you'll not have to ditch any RAM:
$70 - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL 2 x 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

I recommend these mATX cases:
$100 - Silverstone PS07B mATX Case
$100 - Silverstone TJ08B-E mATX Case
$110 - Fractal Design Arc Mini mATX Case
$113 - Lian Li PC-A04B Black mATX Case
$120 - Lian Li PC-A04A Silver mATX Case


It basically refers to the efficiency of the PSU. For all intents and purposes, you really don't need to worry about it:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/

PSU wise, I recommend this:
$70 - SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W Modular PSU

 

[Dangman]

Well if you still want to use up your budget, up the CPU to the Core I7 3770 and add a second set of that RAM. Ram is at the lowest price in months so I recommend splurging for the extra RAM now.

 

[dearastronomer]

One idea kicked around was going to an i5 3570k, which I guess is unlocked?

I'll consider the extra RAM. Honestly, $1,000 for the budget is a bit higher than I really wanted to spend, but if I can get a lot of performance for the money, I'm not opposed to putting a bit more money towards CPU and RAM.

As it stands the complete PC will set me back just under $800 with shipping.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts on the OCZ Vertex 4 SSD? Seems the same price as the Samsung, and seems to have great reviews, especially after a firmware update.

Well if you still want to use up your budget, up the CPU to the Core I7 3770 and add a second set of that RAM. Ram is at the lowest price in months so I recommend splurging for the extra RAM now.

 

[Dangman]

One idea kicked around was going to an i5 3570k, which I guess is unlocked?

That unlocked feature only matters if you're doing a ton of overclocking. Since you're not, no need to get the 3570K, the more expensive mobo needed to maintain decent overclosk as well as the 3rd party HSF needed to overclock well. In other words, that 3570K has hidden extra costs that you have to be aware of.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts on the OCZ Vertex 4 SSD? Seems the same price as the Samsung, and seems to have great reviews, especially after a firmware update.

I still don't trust OCZ's customer support. Right now OCZ just laid off a lot of their workers and whether or not that actually improves their customer support remains to be seen. Or whether or not that the company will survive the next few years in order to use the warranty.

 

[dearastronomer]

Good to know. Now, I've been hearing to get the most from an i7, I need a Z77 chipset?

That unlocked feature only matters if you're doing a ton of overclocking. Since you're not, no need to get the 3570K, the more expensive mobo needed to maintain decent overclosk as well as the 3rd party HSF needed to overclock well. In other words, that 3570K has hidden extra costs that you have to be aware of.

I still don't trust OCZ's customer support. Right now OCZ just laid off a lot of their workers and whether or not that actually improves their customer support remains to be seen. Or whether or not that the company will survive the next few years in order to use the warranty.

 

[Dangman]

Good to know. Now, I've been hearing to get the most from an i7, I need a Z77 chipset?

Not really unless you're planning on overclocking or the Z77 mobos have a feature that you really need that the B75 or H77 chipset doesn't have.

 

[E4g1e]

One idea kicked around was going to an i5 3570k, which I guess is unlocked?

As Danny stated, it is only worth it if you're going to overclock that CPU by more than just a few hundred MHz. However, neither the B75 nor the H77 chipset allows any overclocking at all whatsoever even with an "unlocked" CPU (this means that the K CPUs are effectively locked when used on a B75 or H77 motherboard). You will need a Z77 motherboard (generally more expensive than their H77 or B75 stablemates) in order to take any advantage whatsoever of an "unlocked" K CPU (or for even limited overclocking of a non-K CPU). This, plus the need for an upgraded aftermarket CPU cooler, will increase the total upfront cost of the new build significantly.

 

[dearastronomer]

A couple of last minute questions.

If I wanted to shave a bit of money off this system, any suggestions for a case/power supply combo under $100?

I cut the RAM down to 8GB, and the other i5 CPU option is only $10 less than the 3470. I've even dropped the DVD drive, so there's nowhere else I can trim other than case/ps.

Secondly, This might be a dumb question, but are there any non-UEFI motherboards that support this CPU ?

The Gigabyte board seems nice, and I've had decent luck with them and ASUS in the past. That being said, I know it might be a tall order for an ivy bridge motherboard without UEFI.

Thanks.

 

[Xonim]

Secondly, This might be a dumb question, but are there any non-UEFI motherboards that support this CPU ?

The Gigabyte board seems nice, and I've had decent luck with them and ASUS in the past. That being said, I know it might be a tall order for an ivy bridge motherboard without UEFI.

Thanks.

Why do you not want UEFI? I don't know of any decent boards without, but I haven't looked too hard.

 

[Dangman]

If I wanted to shave a bit of money off this system, any suggestions for a case/power supply combo under $100?

Are you willing to ditch your mATX requirement?

Secondly, This might be a dumb question, but are there any non-UEFI motherboards that support this CPU ?

Yes there are but those will be the older Z68 motherboards. I wouldn't bother considering that not all of them had out of the box support for IB and therefore required a SB based CPU on hand for the BIOs upgrade to support IB, new and decent Z68 mobos actually cost more then the B75 motherboard you have selected, they lack native USB 3.0 support, etc

 

[dearastronomer]

Honestly, most of the cases I've looked at were standard mid-towers anyways. Here's one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811121002

Are there better B75 motherboards in the standard ATX form factor? Or were you talking about case/ps combos?

I can live with a UEFI motherboard, Red Hat supports UEFI, so I'll just move with the times. ;-)

Are you willing to ditch your mATX requirement?

Yes there are but those will be the older Z68 motherboards. I wouldn't bother considering that not all of them had out of the box support for IB and therefore required a SB based CPU on hand for the BIOs upgrade to support IB, new and decent Z68 mobos actually cost more then the B75 motherboard you have selected, they lack native USB 3.0 support, etc

 

[Dangman]

Honestly, most of the cases I've looked at were standard mid-towers anyways. Here's one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811121002

Not a good case + PSU at all since the PSU and case are both crap.

Are there better B75 motherboards in the standard ATX form factor? Or were you talking about case/ps combos?

I was talking about the case/PSU combo. Low priced mATX cases aren't really good at all. The mATX cases I recommended earlier are the cheapest mATX cases I generally recommend. If you can forgo your mATX requirement, I recommend this case + PSU combo:
$48 - Antec NEO ECO 400C 400W PSU
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case

That'll shave off $70 off your planned mATX setup while providing the same cooling.

I can live with a UEFI motherboard, Red Hat supports UEFI, so I'll just move with the times. ;-)

Oh thats why you wanted non-UEFI. Yeah I haven't kept up on Linux support for UEFI in awhile.