Paramount To Dump HD DVD Too?

Ethug said:
Warner has very actively denied it received any payment, and even if it did, SO WHAT? What the hell do you think hd dvd did with Paramount??

Good thing the market doesn't hinge on what you think. How many movies do you actually have? Can you show me picture of your own rack full of dvds with your name on it, or are you one of those people who complain and talk and don't even buy movies?
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Warner has NOT denied taking compensation. They denied that compensation played part in their decision. Denying entirely meant they could (would) later be caught in a lie that could have consequences; their actual statements are pure marketing department.

And of course both sides were busy bribing away. Had HD-DVD cornered the market this way, I'd be annoyed with them too. I wanted to see consumers choose one format or the other based on it's merits, not whatever back room deal a group of self serving corporate executives managed to create. They definitely don't have our best interests at heart.

A quick glance and I have about 60 movies and 10 TV series box sets. Far from the world's largest collection, but I don't buy movies unless I consider them extremely good.
 
w1retap said:
It is all relevant discussion. I was responding to you about the legal alternative for digital downloads, not that you didn't that people were downloading 50GB Blu-ray movies.

.
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Oh, I knew people were downloading full rips of hd dvd and bluray since they started doing it. I also know they have been downloading the re-encoded material...again, since they started doing it. I just don't buy that 264 is 3 or more times as efficient as avc. Besides, you're still missing half the point of the physical media with large capacity: uncompressed audio.
 
jaegertech said:
I wanted to see consumers choose one format or the other based on it's merits, not whatever back room deal a group of self serving corporate executives managed to create. .
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The consumers most interested in the formats DID choose, all over the world. Stop denying this.

I can't beat it into you enough, can I?

Hd dvd didn't win one week of software sales the entire YEAR of 2007 via videoscan. Not one.

Hd dvd isn't winning in any market in the WORLD, and in most of them is a complete laughing stock.

Now tell me how consumers didn't have their choice once again.
 
rantanamo said:
Besides, what movies are using 50gb?
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http://www.blu-raystats.com/
sort size: BD50, then filter.
granted thats not actual movie size in most cases because that includes uncompressed audio and extras...but thats the richness of real media vs the crap of digital distribution. LOTR for example will almost certainly be full 50gig encodes, with extras on another disc.
 
rantanamo said:
I'm guessing you never look at AVS forum. They show the minimal differences side by side. Differences that most of us can't even see.

Besides, you're running away from the point. The point is, its totally possible to use better codecs. There is hardware decoding available for these formats, and they can be done easily. Its just the usual as you, I and everyone here knows. When there are ways to solve something, large corporations always choose the path with the MOST resistance. They would rather have people buy entirely new systems and equipment(obviously to make money) than easily use the power that people already have available to them.
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Its funny theres this niche group of people like you who see some kind of conspiracy at retail between movie studios and hardware providers. Do you think people are talking about you all the time? Perhaps you should try medication.

I'm on avsforum, and have been for a good time, just not under this nick, thanks.
 
It isn't a conspiracy. They are just spacing out their "developments" so they have something in the future to sell. If they released their best technology every time, they'd go in the hole pretty quick trying to figure out something new to invent or sell. On top of that they have to make sure it works with *everyone* and their devices. Standards suck. :p
 
w1retap said:
It isn't a conspiracy. They are just spacing out their "developments" so they have something in the future to sell. If they released their best technology every time, they'd go in the hole pretty quick trying to figure out something new to invent or sell. On top of that they have to make sure it works with *everyone* and their devices. Standards suck. :p
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well, then intel and amd and all the pc related companies must be playing the exact same scheme then!

Seriously, you sound crazy.
 
Ethug said:
well, then intel and amd and all the pc related companies must be playing the exact same scheme then!

Seriously, you sound crazy.
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lol, their roadmap extends pretty far out, so indeed they are. If they weren't playing along, we'd see these crazy super multi-core processors they are touting. But at the same time if you look at it, we are still stuck on the same type processors we had years ago. There is no change in technology. No quantum computing, no neural networks, no optical computing, etc. We have single core, dual core, and quad core processors. The only thing that has changed is they added some cores and shrunk the die size. Nothing stellar there, it just takes money and engineering/testing. They have dozens, if not hundreds of engineers that are trying around the clock to figure out more ways to milk you out of some dollars.

If you don't believe it, you are crazy. ;)
 
w1retap said:
lol, their roadmap extends pretty far out, so indeed they are. If they weren't playing along, we'd see these crazy super multi-core processors they are touting. But at the same time if you look at it, we are still stuck on the same type processors we had years ago. There is no change in technology. No quantum computing, no neural networks, no optical computing, etc. We have single core, dual core, and quad core processors. The only thing that has changed is they added some cores and shrunk the die size. Nothing stellar there, it just takes money and engineering/testing. They have dozens, if not hundreds of engineers that are trying around the clock to figure out more ways to milk you out of some dollars.

If you don't believe it, you are crazy. ;)
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See now I KNOW you're crazy. You are pretending that development and technological pacing are something that can be leapfrogged at will. Like we could all just have supercomputers on the desktop overnight if only those greedy companies didn't want to make money! :rolleyes:
 
Ethug said:
See now I KNOW you're crazy. You are pretending that development and technological pacing are something that can be leapfrogged at will. Like we could all just have supercomputers on the desktop overnight if only those greedy companies didn't want to make money! :rolleyes:
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No.. you got the first part right and the second part wrong. Companies develop at a pace which they can maintain their business practices without tanking. They don't just develop beyond their boundaries and release something that is extraordinary, because if they did they would be ahead of themselves and have to spend months or years developing the next best thing. They have development teams that shift around in different phases for what is going to be released down the road. They follow a roadmap to maintain the company and maximize profits. They do have competitors, but neither company is going to get ahead of themselves, but they will get ahead of the competition now and again.
 
Ethug said:
The consumers most interested in the formats DID choose, all over the world. Stop denying this.

I can't beat it into you enough, can I?

Hd dvd didn't win one week of software sales the entire YEAR of 2007 via videoscan. Not one.

Hd dvd isn't winning in any market in the WORLD, and in most of them is a complete laughing stock.

Now tell me how consumers didn't have their choice once again.
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As I understand, Blu-ray was selling around 60% of all HD media sold. That seems like an impressive majority, doesn't it? Well, not quite. Total HD media sales accounted for only 2.5% of sales, last I read. In other words, 1.5% of purchases were Blu-ray, 1% were HD-DVD, and the rest were everything else (presumably, mostly DVD). To put it another way, both choices were so bad that they were basically ignored.

Sooner or later, someone would have hit the magic price point or offered a must-have feature and broken the market wide open. Hey, maybe my worries are for nothing. Maybe equipment and media prices will keep dropping just like they did in '07 with all that lovely competition going on, but I'm not counting on it.
 
lmao,...I swear I only read the Blu Ray/HD DVD threads to watch w1retap & Ethug go @ it...

damn I ran out of pop-corn...bbl
 
You're crazy
No, you're crazy

lol, seriously, it gets good here on [H]. :p

He's probably googling a counter attack right now or maybe reading a book for business majors and economic majors to learn how they operate.
 
charpman said:
whoohooo!

A region locked, DRM'd to the gills format with less features and a poor user experince compared to HD DVD! And higher priced players to boot!!!

Truely a banner victory for the consumer all around!
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Ill get you some tissues, to go with your misinformation.
 
jaegertech said:
As I understand, Blu-ray was selling around 60% of all HD media sold. That seems like an impressive majority, doesn't it? Well, not quite. Total HD media sales accounted for only 2.5% of sales, last I read. In other words, 1.5% of purchases were Blu-ray, 1% were HD-DVD, and the rest were everything else (presumably, mostly DVD). To put it another way, both choices were so bad that they were basically ignored.

Sooner or later, someone would have hit the magic price point or offered a must-have feature and broken the market wide open. Hey, maybe my worries are for nothing. Maybe equipment and media prices will keep dropping just like they did in '07 with all that lovely competition going on, but I'm not counting on it.
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You're trying to inform me of things I already know.

The HD market isn't as large as the ancient SD market! OMG, revelation!

:rolleyes:

This still doesn't change the fact that hd dvd hasn't won anywhere in the world.

I mean really, it comes back to that over and over. HD DVD has been crushed in every country the two formats were offered in. Blaming pricing is a pathetic excuse. HD DVD was always the cheaper of the two options, and it still lost.

Wake up folks.
 
Why does everyone get all worked up about regions?
I have been buying DVDs for over 10 years now and have a large collection, and not once have I even wanted something from another region.
 
Hofy said:
Why does everyone get all worked up about regions?
I have been buying DVDs for over 10 years now and have a large collection, and not once have I even wanted something from another region.
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Of all things it is the stupidest thing I've been reading. There might be 1 or 2 movies in a year that you MIGHT want to buy from another region, but that's such a rare thing. And many times like dvd, you'll find a region 0 release of it anyway.
 
Regions was an issue this time because you can get many Blu-ray exclusive movies on HD DVD. You could not do the reverse with Blu-ray movies.
 
Well, I should say *can* because it will still hold true for the time being.
 
w1retap said:
Regions was an issue this time because you can get many Blu-ray exclusive movies on HD DVD. You could not do the reverse with Blu-ray movies.
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lol, yeah, at $40 or so a pop. whats the use in that? its the other thing that people love to talk shit about, price.
 
Ethug said:
where are you buying imports at less than $35-40?
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and actually, for that matter...the concept of having to import everything you want to buy because the other format raped your format of choice..lol.
 
I can play both HD DVD's and Blu-ray. It isn't the end of the world. But if I feel like ripping a movie that contains BD+, the HD DVD seems like the logical choice. Being raped by DRM isn't fun.

Since you seem interested, you can get fair priced imports from exploited cinema and other retailers which I'll let you google for yourself .. when they run their bogo high def sales, or you can have them shipped from friends and relatives overseas for pretty cheap using fedex international.

Nobody likes the elitist attitude though. Being pompous will get you nowhere in life.
 
But if I feel like ripping a movie that contains BD+, the HD DVD seems like the logical choice. Being raped by DRM isn't fun.
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No, the logical choice is taking the technologically superior format and cracking the hopeless DRM.
 
Hey, because we're all programming experts.

AnyDVD has been working on it for months. They said they think they just about have week after week after week. BD+ is a dynamic system. They could change it so your decryption algorithm might not work on the next movie they release, then you'd have to start trying to figure out how they changed their code and reverse engineer it again.
 
w1retap said:
Regions was an issue this time because you can get many Blu-ray exclusive movies on HD DVD. You could not do the reverse with Blu-ray movies.
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This had to do with distributors and not region coding.
 
I have tons of things from other regions. The UK gets alot of things before we do, and often they are better versions. And TV series from the UK have far superior packaging which takes up much less space than the US versions when they are finally available. I bought a Momitsu region free player when I got annoyed at how ass-backwards the US market is when it comes to DVDs. What amazes me is how complacent most people are with the crap they are allowed to purchase. Boggles the mind. Region encoding locks most people out of excellent product and stifles compeition.

I buy all my "imports" via Amazon.uk, same logon info works there as here and I've never had any problems.

I've also got some cool stuff from Amazon.jp (Japan) that has never been released in our region.

There is an entire WORLD of DVD's out there my friends, not just the dreck you are allowed to buy by big daddy corporations. Take the blinders off and behold the beauty... :)
 
charpman said:
I have tons of things from other regions. The UK gets alot of things before we do, and often they are better versions. And TV series from the UK have far superior packaging which takes up much less space than the US versions when they are finally available. I bought a Momitsu region free player when I got annoyed at how ass-backwards the US market is when it comes to DVDs. What amazes me is how complacent most people are with the crap they are allowed to purchase. Boggles the mind. Region encoding locks most people out of excellent product and stifles compeition.

I buy all my "imports" via Amazon.uk, same logon info works there as here and I've never had any problems.

I've also got some cool stuff from Amazon.jp (Japan) that has never been released in our region.

There is an entire WORLD of DVD's out there my friends, not just the dreck you are allowed to buy by big daddy corporations. Take the blinders off and behold the beauty... :)
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Oh I grow tired of the limits placed on us by our loving big corporations in this company.... And do any of you truly have any idea about all the DRM CRAP built into Windows Vista? Even if you're NEVER going to watch HD DVD or Blu-ray, there are plenty of stops and processes/services built into the background of Vista to prevent you from copying those DRM protected movies ... Grandma and grandpa who just bought a $600 computer to check email and do webcam with the grandkids have a much slower computer and a Vista install that takes 10GB of their hard drive space just because of all the useless DRM built into Vista. I'm sure glad that DRM is there to keep them from pirating blu rays and HD DVD's to watch on their 20 year old tube television ....
 
Inform us of all the DRM built into Windows Vista preventing us from backing up our movies. I haven't ran into a single thing that has been intrusive yet. All the HD DVD titles I have can be backed up with the click of a mouse. I can't say the same for BD+ movies.
 
Yes, BD+ has switched this to a game of cat-and-mouse instead of the previous system (find the CSS keys and you're done). It is still crackable, and last I heard, all current BD+ titles have been beaten by SlySoft. This will of course change next week, then SlySoft updates with the new codes, and it repeats. DRM just doesn't work.
 
InorganicMatter said:
Yes, BD+ has switched this to a game of cat-and-mouse instead of the previous system (find the CSS keys and you're done). It is still crackable, and last I heard, all current BD+ titles have been beaten by SlySoft. This will of course change next week, then SlySoft updates with the new codes, and it repeats. DRM just doesn't work.
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DRM does nothing to prevent illegal piracy, it only prevents legal owners and buyers from backing up their expensive originals. It's a huge disservice to consumers and does nothing to protect producers' intellectual property. If you want to pirate something, nothing is going to stop you. If there's no crack for it now, people will come up with one eventually, distribute it, and boom, now people are even more motivated to find cracked versions of their content so they don't have to worry about DRM in the first place... Companies are wasting so much time and money trying to keep people from copying their stuff (which raises production costs and, thus, cost of the product to customers) and it doesn't do any good.

In fact, here's a quote from the article. I'm probably breaking a copyright law or something by pasting this (of so, please delete, Mr. Administrator...)

"Copy-protection features in Windows Vista make the operating system more bloated while giving few benefits to end users, according to a new security paper.
Peter Gutmann, a medical imaging specialist, argues in the paper that Microsoft's cumbersome approach to DRM is doomed to fail and will only succeed in pushing users towards buying faster hardware to cope with degraded performance, effectively imposing collateral damage on the rest of the industry.
Many of the criticisms Gutmann makes will be familiar to those who have followed the development of Vista's copyright protection features however his hard-hitting prose style and warning that the Vista Content Protection specs could "very well constitute the longest suicide note in history" has reinvigorated the debate.
Gutmann argues, for example, that in order to lock down High Definition content, Vista limits the number of connectivity options to users. 'Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content", typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server)," Gutmann writes in an abstract to his paper here.
Microsoft is risking annoying its customer base and users in a bid to corner the market for home distribution of premium content.
Gutmann argues that hackers will find it just as easy to bypass the content protection mechanisms of Vista as they have with other versions of the OS.
These ultimately doomed efforts will lead to a more expensive and less functional operating system for users, he argues."

Here's a link:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/27/windows_drm_monstered/

Here's a link to the full article described in the link above:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Here's another:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/28/vista_drm_analysis/

Here's a link to an article about how the whole mess of DRM got them to start integrating it into the OS in the first place:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars

Without HDCP devices (video cards & monitors) the full HD content you've paid for won't even be viewable!! It will be lessened in quality for you, even though your hardware is technically fast enough to support it, we don't have devices that say HDCP on the side, so we can't unluck the full content we paid full price for, even if we bought the $35 movie at the store!!! I really don't know what we as consumers can do, if anything, to stop this madness, but we ought to try. Right now we're just bending over and taking it...:mad:
 
Well if HD loses I'll be there to buy up the HD-DVD content in the firesale. I'm not going Blue Ray. Sony can kiss my pale white ass before I give them any of my money. :mad:
 
Just wondering if anyone's had a chance to read those articles above, and what your thoughts are...
 
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