P4 2.4 vs Barton 2500 xp systems

D

DarkStryke

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
1,391
General purpose gaming, but still weary on the two definate "value" choices I have to pick from.

Rest of the system will look like this:

1 gig corsair xms ram
wd 120gig sata drive
lite-on 52x cd
ati radeon 9600xt


This will basically be a gaming machine, be it FPS to online rpg's. Halflife to call of duty, DAoC to everquest. Day to day is the better processor to select for this system the p4 or the athlon xp? I'm leaning towards the athlon but am curious about the Hyper threading gains of the p4 2.4c
 
I asked the same thing the other day, everyone said to go for the p4. But since I already had the xp and would have lost money on the return, I decided to keep it. My overly expensive nice looking Lan Party B made the total package about the same price as the P4.

It is really fast anyway. Faster than the 2.4b with rdram I'm on right now. Rdram is crap, so that isnt saying much. :D

I get smoother framerates in CS with the 2500+ at stock speed with a geforce3 than the 2.4b and geforce4.

A nice setup for the athlon is about 200 for the board and chip. The P4 is almost that for the chip alone.

I think you would be very happy with a DFI NFII Ultra Infinity and a 2500+ @ 3200+.
 
I'd say go with the P4 and use two 512 sticks of RAM in a dual channel config. Some apps can benefit nicely from dual channel ram and the p4 2.4cs are nice processors, some overclock very well.
 
i recently asked the question in the amd forum and i got a pretty decent answer, enough to convince me to go w/ amd anyhow.

you have to remember that the clockspeeds of the processors aren't really that comparable, they're not the same scale. just cuz its 2.4 intel vs 1.8 amd doesn't mean that amd is nessessarily slower.

the amd is cheaper performer for the money if you're going to overclock. it doesn't overclock as much, but it doesn't need to. you will find barton 2500's overclocked to 2.4 w/ scores, benches, performance etc comparable to 2.4c's overclocked to past 3 GHz... its not about clockspeed but about the way they work w/ the hardware...something like that...here's the thread look abut half way down
 
For basically most gaming, hyperthreading won't affect it much, since almost all games aren't written to take advantage of HT.

Go with the P4 if you have the cash, though it's performance and the Athlon Barton 2500+ is really comparable. The Athlons can do more per clock cycle compared with the P4 core, evidenced by the fact that it has a slower clock speed. The 2500+ can be OCed to 3000+ levels and beyond in most cases, and is much cheaper than a 2.4 (85 vs. 160). You could take the extra cash and spend on it something else in the system.

I just built a P4 2.4 system, been testing it the past few days, haven't gamed on it yet though (Battlefield 1942 beyond 20 fps, finally). Athlon systems are nice, don't let the lower than P4 clock speeds fool you.
 
As I understand more on the HT as I read up, basically if i'm doing something else while an application is running then a HT processor will beat a non HT one in overall system speed? Like say i'm gaming in a window for whatever reason and running irc / other programs in the background, would the intel be a better choice in that situation?

As for the cost difference, the intel would be about 150~ish more dollars over the amd I think (canadian).
 
i don't think you need NT to run irc and aim while playing cs...my pentium 3/geforce2gts do that well enough...
 
Is it fair to compare a processor with one that costs half as much? If you're spending the money, go with the Intel. You could also Go with the AMD chip and increase your video card to a 9800np.
 
Considering 3.2GHz is pretty much guaranteed with a 2.4C... it'd say go for that.

BUT I'm getting an 2500+ myself... they're pretty much guaranteed to do 2.2GHz ... :) Intel's just WAYY TOO EXPENSIVE for my tastes. (Poor College student!)

Either way... PC3200 would work. In the case of the intel, 5:4 with tight timings baby!
 
I am not going to o/c this sytem in anyway, shape or form. I'm not comfortable with doing so at this stage of my computer experience.

As for the 9800 non-pro, much better then the 9600xt? Future proof wise (aka dx9 stuffs), halflife2 would be a given. I won't be touching a nvidia card as the market currently stands.
 
Originally posted by DarkStryke
I am not going to o/c this sytem in anyway, shape or form. I'm not comfortable with doing so at this stage of my computer experience.
Click to expand...

LOL it takes no experience. Just the knowledge to get into the BIOS and turn up the FSB to 250. Maybe you will have to up the VCore a tick, but even my mother could overclock a Pentium 4C.
 
P4 OCing is pretty simple, jsut have someone explain it, and it's cake.

I'd go with an AMD if you aren't OCing,if you think you will OC in the future go with the 2500+ barton, but if not, check out a 2600+ - 3000+ Hell, if you have the money buy an AMD64, those perform better than the regular athlons, and they support 64 bit processing which will increase the future proof status immensly. I don't know how much they cost, but it sounds good in theory. I'd check it out!

~Adam
 
AMD is great for overclocking. If you're that kind of gamer thats going to use his hardware to the fullest, go AMD. P4's isn't bad at all either. The hyper threading tech is suppose to cut down on processing time by a handful. But I never ran them side by side to see.
Check www.Anandtech.com or www.Tomshardware.com. I know I've seen em run against each other, I just don't remember the results.

Well thos Athlon 64's are sweet, but they're a jump in price from a +2600...

just my 2 cents.

-Logiks
 
Setup 1
  • AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ BARTON 333 MHZ FSB 512KB CACHE SOCKET-A
  • NF7-S V2.0 SOCKET-A NVIDIA NFORCE2 5PCI/AGP8X 3DUAL DDR400 AUDIO LAN SATA 1394 USB2.0
  • 2x CORSAIR XMS3200 512MB DDR 400MHZ 184PIN CAS2-3-3-6
  • WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200JD 120.0GB 7200RPM 8MB CACHE SERIAL-ATA
  • LITEON XJ-HD166S 16X DVD-ROM DRIVE BLACK
  • ANTEC SX1040BII PERFORMANCE SERIES II SOHO FILE SERVER W/400W POWER SUPPLY - BLACK
  • SAPPHIRE ATLANTIS RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DDR RETAIL
Total cost $1296.28

VS

Setup 2
  • INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.4C GHZ 800 MHZ FSB 512KB CACHE 478-PIN RETAIL
  • ABIT IC7-G INTEL 875P FSB800 DUAL SATA RAID DUAL DDR 400 AGP 8X USB 2.0
  • 2x CORSAIR XMS3200 512MB DDR 400MHZ 184PIN CAS2-3-3-6
  • WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200JD 120.0GB 7200RPM 8MB CACHE SERIAL-ATA
  • LITEON XJ-HD166S 16X DVD-ROM DRIVE BLACK
  • ANTEC SX1040BII PERFORMANCE SERIES II SOHO FILE SERVER W/400W POWER SUPPLY - BLACK
  • ATI RADEON 9600XT 128MB RETAIL
Total cost $ 1349.43

Thoughts? #1 is looking better every time I review, it seems..........
 
WHOA you put a 9800 pro on the first one to make up the difference... I'd say a 2500+ with a 9800 pro would just about own the crap out of that P4 with a 9600 XT.

Oh and when I said that OCing a P4 was easy I meant OCing in general, really.. if yo ucan traverse a bios.. lol it's that easy, you just gotta know how to not fry your system, and that is easy, just ask someone.

~Adam
 
in two days when i get back to school i'm ordering my computer which is almost identical to yours, cept i already have 2 HDD and i'm only going w/ half the ram you are...i'm getting aftermarket cooling tho, and plan to overclock

anyhow, i don't know how long you're going to wait before buying my new system, but i'll post when mine is built and running. i'll keep it stock for a week to get it settled in and i'll let you know how it works ;)

course if you buy it before then more power to you!
 
Originally posted by DarkStryke
Setup 1
  • AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ BARTON 333 MHZ FSB 512KB CACHE SOCKET-A
  • NF7-S V2.0 SOCKET-A NVIDIA NFORCE2 5PCI/AGP8X 3DUAL DDR400 AUDIO LAN SATA 1394 USB2.0
  • 2x CORSAIR XMS3200 512MB DDR 400MHZ 184PIN CAS2-3-3-6
  • WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200JD 120.0GB 7200RPM 8MB CACHE SERIAL-ATA
  • LITEON XJ-HD166S 16X DVD-ROM DRIVE BLACK
  • ANTEC SX1040BII PERFORMANCE SERIES II SOHO FILE SERVER W/400W POWER SUPPLY - BLACK
  • SAPPHIRE ATLANTIS RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DDR RETAIL
Total cost $1296.28

VS

Setup 2
  • INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.4C GHZ 800 MHZ FSB 512KB CACHE 478-PIN RETAIL
  • ABIT IC7-G INTEL 875P FSB800 DUAL SATA RAID DUAL DDR 400 AGP 8X USB 2.0
  • 2x CORSAIR XMS3200 512MB DDR 400MHZ 184PIN CAS2-3-3-6
  • WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200JD 120.0GB 7200RPM 8MB CACHE SERIAL-ATA
  • LITEON XJ-HD166S 16X DVD-ROM DRIVE BLACK
  • ANTEC SX1040BII PERFORMANCE SERIES II SOHO FILE SERVER W/400W POWER SUPPLY - BLACK
  • ATI RADEON 9600XT 128MB RETAIL
Total cost $ 1349.43

Thoughts? #1 is looking better every time I review, it seems..........
Click to expand...
There's no question, the #1 system is better, unless you make a living encoding video from DVD to AVI.
 
the first system would be faster, but for reference try to find some 3200 memory with tighter settings like xms3200 c2 or mushkin level 1 or level 2
 
The only real option I have for better ram would be this, tho it's about $60 total more over my 1gig of corsair listed above.

CORSAIR TWINX1024-3200LL 1 GB DDR 400MHZ 2X184PIN CAS2-3-2-6

Really worth the $60 if i'm not going to o/c?
 
Not quit sure what all the fuss about HT is, dont get me wrong, I'm no amd fan boy, in fact I have a p3 800mhz sititng next to me.

But.. With my 2500+ (at 3200+) I can play ut2k3 leave kazaa and aim running, and listen to music with windows media player( no noise help you predict better in the game :) ) And I see no slow down, no drop in fps, nothing.

But thats jut my point of view, considering I've never used a p4 HT I can't really say HT is all hype, but seems to me that the xp's have it hidden in there some where to ;)
 
Originally posted by DarkStryke
Setup 1
  • AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ BARTON 333 MHZ FSB 512KB CACHE SOCKET-A
  • NF7-S V2.0 SOCKET-A NVIDIA NFORCE2 5PCI/AGP8X 3DUAL DDR400 AUDIO LAN SATA 1394 USB2.0
  • 2x CORSAIR XMS3200 512MB DDR 400MHZ 184PIN CAS2-3-3-6
  • WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200JD 120.0GB 7200RPM 8MB CACHE SERIAL-ATA
  • LITEON XJ-HD166S 16X DVD-ROM DRIVE BLACK
  • ANTEC SX1040BII PERFORMANCE SERIES II SOHO FILE SERVER W/400W POWER SUPPLY - BLACK
  • SAPPHIRE ATLANTIS RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DDR RETAIL
Total cost $1296.28

VS

Setup 2
  • INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.4C GHZ 800 MHZ FSB 512KB CACHE 478-PIN RETAIL
  • ABIT IC7-G INTEL 875P FSB800 DUAL SATA RAID DUAL DDR 400 AGP 8X USB 2.0
  • 2x CORSAIR XMS3200 512MB DDR 400MHZ 184PIN CAS2-3-3-6
  • WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200JD 120.0GB 7200RPM 8MB CACHE SERIAL-ATA
  • LITEON XJ-HD166S 16X DVD-ROM DRIVE BLACK
  • ANTEC SX1040BII PERFORMANCE SERIES II SOHO FILE SERVER W/400W POWER SUPPLY - BLACK
  • ATI RADEON 9600XT 128MB RETAIL
Total cost $ 1349.43

Thoughts? #1 is looking better every time I review, it seems..........
Click to expand...


Hmm, that Intel price seems inflated a little bit, probably because of the choice of the IC7-G.. Umm, why are you comparing a motherboard with onboard graphics vs. one without? Also, why the switch from a built-by ATi card, to a Sapphire card? Just wondering, as in my opinion, either system would work quite nicely. But those changes do affect the overall prices.
 
Originally posted by DarkStryke
The only real option I have for better ram would be this, tho it's about $60 total more over my 1gig of corsair listed above.

CORSAIR TWINX1024-3200LL 1 GB DDR 400MHZ 2X184PIN CAS2-3-2-6

Really worth the $60 if i'm not going to o/c?
Click to expand...


Good RAM is always worth it ...

OH ... and I'd go with system 1 ... the 9800PRO is sweet ...
 
Option 2 does sound a bit inflated.

I have the 2.8ghz system in my sig and before I got the 9800 pro (and the second hard drive and DVD burner which are on their way) it cost me around $1100 and that's with a SCSI card and a legit copy of Win XP Pro (OEM) that the rents decided I needed to have.

If I swapped out the 2.8 for a 2.4, took out the SCSI and got windows from an "alternate but legal source" :p I'd be able to add a 9800 pro and still come in $100 under what you've listed.

Also the difference in performance between the Corsair 3200C2PT and the LL ram is low, however if you want to overclock and push it the LL is a better choice. I didn't bother paying the difference and I don't regret not having the LL ram.
 
First thing to remember for gaming- the video card is king. It will make the most difference in your gaming experience, assuming you don't play at 640*480. The second thing that I would concentrate on budgetwise is obtainining the gig of ram, then, and only then, would I pour extra money into the processor. However, there are really only two feasable options that I see right now for good rigs- one being the 2500+, the other being the A64 3000+ (which is just a hair more expensive than the 2.4c's from chipzilla). In the general sense of business ,there are only two typical markets- cost leader and differentiation leader, which AMD has both titles on in the chip market- intel is "stuck in the middle" with their offerings at the moment (which is not a good thing).

In terms of LL vs C2 lines on corsair, i'd call it no big difference- spend the money elsewhere in the system. While I have found in my own benchies that 2-2-2-4 timings @ 180 FSB yeilds better performance than 2-3-3-7 timings @ 200FSB, the differences are minute and do not apply to real world applications (these are nF2 benchies)- because of PAT on the 875/865 chipsets, timings don't make a difference in intel's performance.

cliff notes- system #1 pwns system #2

emorphien- those are canuck dollars- divide by two to get approximate us dollars (rimshot please)
 
Go with system 1 for sure and don't spend the extra on the memory, it's not worth it.
 
I'm going to go with the athlon. As for the radeon ati vs other, the saphire from what i can tell is basically identicle but $30 cheaper then the ati 9800 pro. I haven't heard anything bad about them, actually somewhat positive. Really big diff?
 
When your choosing your ram remember this. Intel setups are more bandwidth hungry so overall bus speed is more important.

AMD setups are more timing sensitive. Go with the tightest timings you can.
 
Originally posted by Schro
emorphien- those are canuck dollars- divide by two to get approximate us dollars (rimshot please)
Click to expand...


Yeah, I realized that about an hour after i posted it but I wasn't near a computer.
 
System 1 will be a great rig for games... The only thing I would change is the motherboard. The DFI NFII Ultra Infinity is about the same price ($95 US) and has better voltage options and can reach higher fsb with no modifications. Has sata raid, firewire, audio, and all the other goodies.

With a little more voltage (maybe 2.8 or 2.9) the ram will most likely run 2-2-2 timings at 200 fsb.

Also at amdmb.com forums, there is a DFI forum with reps from DFI to answer any questions you have. The DFI also has awesome bios support with several great betas that help with overclocking stability. (i had troubles with the bios it came with, but the 12/31 beta solved all my overclocking woes)



The DFI just seems to be built to a higher quality standard. Feels and looks nicer than the abit boards I have owned in the past.

Are you getting an oem or retail chip? The stock retail hsf is ok, but I suggest something like the zalman 7000a-alcu for $35. That will get you running at 3200+ speeds or higher and keep the load temps down.

Have Fun!
 
Originally posted by DarkStryke
I'm going to go with the athlon. As for the radeon ati vs other, the saphire from what i can tell is basically identicle but $30 cheaper then the ati 9800 pro. I haven't heard anything bad about them, actually somewhat positive. Really big diff?
Click to expand...

ATI does not manufacture boards- all of the BBA cards are typically made by Sapphire, some by PowerColor...thus, the difference in the cards is typically the sticker that is on the back for the flagship products. The only annoying thing is that ATI is not very stringent with their partner providers for the specs on their products, for example, PowerColor sells a 9600 Pro that is clocked at 400 clock 400 memory, while the BBA one is 400/600, or other variations of the same.
 
canuck dollars, multiply it by .75, if you divide by 2.. that's too low.

~Adam
 
Originally posted by CleanSlate
canuck dollars, multiply it by .75, if you divide by 2.. that's too low.

~Adam
Click to expand...

My currency conversion estimates were intended to be a slam on canadia and their currency, the divisor was intentional, as you may notice my call for a rimshot.
 
I was wondering what you were laughing at. Well, obviously it wasn't funny :) maybe if you had said divide by 10 :).

~Adam
 
System 1 will be a great rig for games... The only thing I would change is the motherboard. The DFI NFII Ultra Infinity is about the same price ($95 US) and has better voltage options and can reach higher fsb with no modifications. Has sata raid, firewire, audio, and all the other goodies.

With a little more voltage (maybe 2.8 or 2.9) the ram will most likely run 2-2-2 timings at 200 fsb.

Also at amdmb.com forums, there is a DFI forum with reps from DFI to answer any questions you have. The DFI also has awesome bios support with several great betas that help with overclocking stability. (i had troubles with the bios it came with, but the 12/31 beta solved all my overclocking woes)
Click to expand...
Is this what you're reccomending?
  • DFI LANPARTY NFII ULTRA B SOCKET A NFORCE2 5PCI/AGP8X DUAL DDR400 SATA IDE/RAID DUAL LAN USB 2.0 6-CHANNEL AUDIO
It's $231.59 compared to the $146.56 Abit NF7-S ><
ATI does not manufacture boards- all of the BBA cards are typically made by Sapphire, some by PowerColor...thus, the difference in the cards is typically the sticker that is on the back for the flagship products. The only annoying thing is that ATI is not very stringent with their partner providers for the specs on their products, for example, PowerColor sells a 9600 Pro that is clocked at 400 clock 400 memory, while the BBA one is 400/600, or other variations of the same.
Click to expand...
So basically the Saphire sticker is no better, no worse then the Ati one if I understand that, so long as the clock/mem specs are the same?
When your choosing your ram remember this. Intel setups are more bandwidth hungry so overall bus speed is more important.

AMD setups are more timing sensitive. Go with the tightest timings you can.
Click to expand...
I never knew that, perhalps i'll budget in the higher priced ram.
Are you getting an oem or retail chip? The stock retail hsf is ok, but I suggest something like the zalman 7000a-alcu for $35. That will get you running at 3200+ speeds or higher and keep the load temps down.
Click to expand...
It's a retail boxed cpu, but i'm not intending on o/c'n so I was just going to stay with the included heatsink / fan.


I realize these questions come up all the time, but sifting through massive ammounts of posts without a search feature (currently disabled) is somewhat discouraging. Thanks for the patience and the advice, I just got a new job so I've been able to start looking for a new system once more :) :)
 
Sorry, I was just trying to point out the dfferences in the 2 systems mentioned.

If you had gone with the IC7 rather than the IC7-G, it would have been a better comparison as the IC7 is better matched with the NF7-S as it doesn't have onboard gigabit lan and onboard video, as the IC7-G does. That is ~$30 difference (from newegg).

With the video cards, one system is using a 'powered by ati' card, while the other is using a 'built by ati' card. The 'built by ati' cards are usually more expensive, and in this case a 'buolt by ati' 9600xt is $15 more than a sapphire 9600xt (from newegg as well).

That is a total of another $45 that could have been knocked off the Intel system price. Sure, the AMD system is probably a wise choice, but just wanted to make the systems a bit more comparable even though the AMD system is quoted with a 9800Pro and the lack of onboard lan on the IC7 vs gigabit on the IC7-G vs 10/100 on the NF7-S.

As it looks like some of your choices have been changed, and others decided, I would just like to wish you well on what looks to be a great system.
 
I have to go with what local sources are charging in regards to items, and really I need / want that ethernet built into the board itself. Unfortunately shipping to canada is subject to major border fee's at times, so new egg and the like are out of reach.

In the end the decision was more of a 'what i'm getting vs what i'm putting out' and judging by all i've read / been told the amd base, for me in this situation will provide more bang for my buck.

Thanks for the help.
 
so which setup are you going w/?

btw: the dfi board he suggested was probably the dfi infinity ultra, it costs about the same as the nf7-s and is supposed to be better at overclocking. i'm going w/ the nf7-s because i'm planning on using the soundstorm digital output

sapphire and radeon have subtle differences, i believe, features, maybe different ram but i think they are pretty much the same, yes

if you're not going to overclock you don't need to worry about ram as much...still good idea to get name brand tho

anyhow good luck w/ your purchase, let us know when it comes together, i'll post here or amd thread when mines built ;)
 
Going with #1 basically, but with the better ram. The whole idea was I'm trying to keep the "barebones" parts listed at under $1300 if I can. Leaves me with room for taxes and a few other small things so it doesn't push past 1500 all that much.
 
Dont get the 9600 xt, buy a evga 5900, its a much better card for 25 dollars more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top